I didn't like the episode for many of the reasons people have already stated with the bad writing, pacing, directing, etc., so I won't get into what everyone has already talked about. My main problem with this episode, and the season, is that I feel like the White Walkers should just be the background of the final season. The show is sacrificing great character moments and writing, which is what made the show so good, for just sprinting towards some sort of standard battle of humans versus a group of things we feel nothing for. They were never really what the show was about. I'm fully on team Cersei and want her to take advantage of the situation and end up on top at the end. She can let Jon and Dany bang one out first though.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
eyeball_kid
Member
Eh last season was a long time ago, and I guess it didn't make a big impression on me. But I just read Wikipedia and kind of remember now.
I didn't even make the connection to that annulment bit. Thanks, I appreciate it.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
For everyone who hated the Arya and Sansa scenes(I was one of them) it can be redeemed in the finale if it turns out both or one of them is playing Littlefinger. If not, then yeah, that really hurts the plot overall.
To me the bigger thing is I still can't get over how dumb the plan is to try and convince Cersei to fight the Night King. For one, her army won't even make that much of a difference. This isn't conventional warfare. Two, they are visiting her in her own home turf, not on neutral ground? And one wight will convince her(a psycho) that the Night King is real and ultra powerful? It's just dumb dumb dumb.
To me the bigger thing is I still can't get over how dumb the plan is to try and convince Cersei to fight the Night King. For one, her army won't even make that much of a difference. This isn't conventional warfare. Two, they are visiting her in her own home turf, not on neutral ground? And one wight will convince her(a psycho) that the Night King is real and ultra powerful? It's just dumb dumb dumb.
Boombloxer
Member
Actually, Tyrion outsmarts Cersei a lot and knows exactly how cruel she is, since she tortured him his entire life. He lost battles to Jamie, not politics to Cersei. She is terrible at them. Her best move was blowing up her enemies...That she empowered in the first place. I think Tyrion will be ready.
Yea, dunno where that theory is coming from.
And no, 3ER is not Bran. He has a personal insight to Brans memories as memories of the world, but he's not good old Bran.
Side note, I put money on Torrmund getting with Brienne immediately after they get back.
He and The Hound had some.genuine bro chemistry.
And Sansa wants to rule...Why exactly? She can't fight and is largely brainless. Littlefinger props her up.
Arya's demeanor is on point, like watching her now, she's fully believable as a ridiculously skilled assassin. That confidence is fire.
"I have 10k men"
"None of them are here now"
Too good.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
The title of this entire series of books is about Jon at least partially or entirely about Jon. He's rightfully got plot armor.
He is literally "The Son(g) of Ice and Fire"
And could also be read as the "Sun of Ice and Fire" as like the herald of a new day (i.e. the rising sun as a symbol of a new day or a new world.
What else were they going to do with him? He can't go south of the wall. NK is about to cross the wall and or get burnt at the wall. Characters can't get around the horde to him. He was pushed as far as he can go.
molnizzle
Member
also Drogon let Jon touch him after sniffing him out. Dude's scent checks out. Dragon approved.
Jon smells like incest.
The Artisan
Member
Your statement: "I'm not sure if a character can be mistaken about who they are."
my response: 3 examples of characters going through said scenario.
what the fuck is that supposed to mean? why are you making this personal?
again, I do not think the 2 identities have to be mutually exclusive. he is giving up the title of being lord of Winterfell coz of his 3 eyed raven status but he is still Bran Stark just like Aemon Targaryen gave up the title of being King, and eventually vows to the Night's Watch, but he's still Aemon Targaryen.
yeah, you have a point. i guess the evidence is there
FinaruDensetsu
Member
It's gotta be going that way (playing Littlefinger) because or else the sisters have just totally regressed back into when they were little bickering children. They would have not developed or matured at all during all this time and literally EVERYONE watching would be pissed.
there's a few problems with the assumptions though
a) we don't know the length of day in GOT universe
b) we don't know the speed of ravens in GOT universe
It's around 1920 miles between eastwatch and dragonstone
ravens on this planet travel about 30 mph... that would mean at least 64 hour flight time
it looked like about 22 hours in total time between raven leaving and dragon arriving which is about 175 miles per hour
but a combination of ravens being faster and a longer day length would make it very believable.
Bran's ravens seemed to go a lot faster than 30 mph, because going north from eastwatch to reach mountain ranges would have been past the haunted forest... meaning they traveled ~100 miles. I doubt he was chilling outside for almost 4 hours for that recon, though it is possible.
DUFFMCWALIN
Member
Outside of the last bit, agreed. Were really under baking the real drama of the show between characters we know and care about for a zombie apocalypse.
Jon was lied to about being a bastard, Theon had PTSD and always knew he was Theon but was afraid to get tortured again. Bran knows he was Bran but he is now someone else, it's completely different scenarios.
Weren't you the one who said you was disgusted at the Cersei stuff but saying you make outlandish stretches is too personal?
You might not think that but Bran does. I'll go with Bran on this one.
Emulated Hype
Member
I feel like the Arya/Sansa/Petyr subplot was a drag on this episode.
Only way this would work was if this was Little Finger throughout this episode
Otherwise, it just wouldn't make sense for them to bicker in private. If they are just playing him, I will be impressed and sigh with relief.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
If you lick an ice spear, does your tongue get stuck to it?
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
i dont know whats going on with Bran other than somethings going on. i dont think hes the Night King or the older Three Eyed Raven. The NK was too well prepared. They were just chilling there with javelin in hand for at least a day. The NK has hacked into the visions or something lol
It looked like it hit the dragon while it was shooting flames. You can see something explode at the base of its neck.
ComputerBlue
Member
Alright, back to the start of the topic...I just went back and watched all the Benjen parts and he doesn't say anything about communicating with the 3ER or waiting for Bran.
I'll search more tomorrow, maybe I missed something, pretty tired.
Read above.
I don't remember this line but there's a 99.99% chance it was spoken by either Tormund or The Hound.
I really hope this is the last time the show is so aggressive with the timing stuff. They're pushing it to the point of absurdity now. It's ruining the show. Given the location that water would freeze in less than 5 hours.
I like the basic ideas of what they did here. Force Dany north to make her face the truth and have her lose something to convince her of the seriousness of the threat and get her on board. It's all the numbskull details and bizarre ways of getting there that are just so frustrating.
I like the basic ideas of what they did here. Force Dany north to make her face the truth and have her lose something to convince her of the seriousness of the threat and get her on board. It's all the numbskull details and bizarre ways of getting there that are just so frustrating.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
After the Hound throws the rock i think.
broncobuster
Banned
I would've liked to see him go out attempting to fight white walkers or even the Night King instead of just wights.
It was weird as is how the white walkers left, presumably to find chains, instead of waiting a moment to make sure Jon is dead. Dude has killed two white walkers. NK is probably thinking "this fucking guy again..." when they cross paths.
TimeEffect
Member
I can't remember the scene, but was there any reason the Night King didn't spear the dragon Dany was sitting on? Seemed like the dragons didn't even try to aim for the Night King. Seems like he's immune, but they didn't try to find out.
Also, if the dragons are wreaking havoc, you'd think they'd accidentally kill the White Walker controlling the Warg Jon is protecting.
Also, since they know they can kill the leaders, is there any reason the leaders risk harm in the first place? Seems they can chill in the background and let the undead minions do the work
Also, if the dragons are wreaking havoc, you'd think they'd accidentally kill the White Walker controlling the Warg Jon is protecting.
Also, since they know they can kill the leaders, is there any reason the leaders risk harm in the first place? Seems they can chill in the background and let the undead minions do the work
eyeball_kid
Member
That is true, but I guess what I should've said is that Tyrion has sometimes underestimated people because he knows he's the "clever one". Perhaps he's learned his lesson now.
That scene makes much more sense now.
I also have to give a shoutout to the people doing the CG on the dragons. They're much improved from the early days, especially when composited with people.
ComputerBlue
Member
Greater chance of it being spoken by both, lol.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
You won't believe who Luke's father is.
Boombloxer
Member
No, the armies will make a difference, because they are bodies that can fight.
And that looked like it was outside Kings landing, so neutral-ish ground. The Dothraki and the Unsullied and 2 dragons outside means nothing is going to happen yet.
Except Cersei staring at the younger, hotter queen, realizing she has outlived her kids, a younger brother who has offed the king and the other whom she wants dead...and realizing that her end is near, as the prophecy said.
The Artisan
Member
hence, 3 examples of characters doubtful about who they are...of course the scenarios are completely different because they are completely different characters.
I am disgusted by it, but I ain't judging you for it. I don't know you. This is just something I strongly disagree with you on.
Go ahead, but I think the kid still has a lot to learn. And he's doing so in the comfort of his home and family.
To be fair, this is something GRRM would totally do.
Arya knows exactly what's going on, I claim. She is there testing Sansa loyalties. But she knows littlefinger's game and he isn't surviving next episode. The way the dragon was speared and it sinking thereafter was both magnificent and tragic. And Dany and Jon's chemistry at bedside scene was great.
Solid episode. Ready for the finale.
Solid episode. Ready for the finale.
ComputerBlue
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edgr_7KwUqo
This exchange between The Hound and Tormund is one of my favorites from this season.
The way she looks at you? Like she wants to carve you up and eat your liver?
You do know her!
This exchange between The Hound and Tormund is one of my favorites from this season.
The way she looks at you? Like she wants to carve you up and eat your liver?
You do know her!
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Technically it could work against them. More men = more men the Night King can convert to wights if they die in combat. The key to beating the Night King may not be massive armies. Hell, since we found out in this episode, killing a White Walker insta-kills all their wights, then forget about fighting the Night King's armies, just go after the Night King himself and figure out how to take him out.
Wouldn't they all just be followed
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Total fucking red herring in retrospect.
DangerMouse
Member
Yup. This week was good and especially the previous two weeks. The closeups on the dragon both during it's big fight, flight, and fire, and when it was sitting in front of the defeated Lannister soldiers and also flew back and let Jon touch it were so nicely detailed.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
Yep, spear went in while Visceron was spraying flames, so the fire exploded out the open wound and then squirted out what looked like 50 gallons of blood, that kinda blood loss is certain death, a huge portion of his circulatory system just gets blown out of his neck.
TimeEffect
Member
Also, people are saying Night King was luring Dany to save the 7, which is fine, but then why did the wights cross the ice and try to kill them? Wouldn't that ruin the plan of the Night King?
Or did the Night King know the dragons would come in the nick of time, knowing Jon and co. wouldn't die.
Or do they not have control of the horde?
Or did the Night King know the dragons would come in the nick of time, knowing Jon and co. wouldn't die.
Or do they not have control of the horde?
The Artisan
Member
they can't be followed past the wall, though. not that i think they'd make it, anyway
molnizzle
Member
Also something to keep in mind, the remaining dragons are Drogon and Rhaegal. Dany rides Drogon, who was named after Khal Drogo. Rhaegal was named after her older brother. Jon's father. That dragon doesn't currently have a rider. Hmm...
All the chats between these characters were great, I'd almost not care if the whole episode was them just talking about random stuff.
This was probably my favorite scene in the episode. Poor Tormund. She loves Jaime.
eyeball_kid
Member
True, but the way it was shot made it feel meaningless. He didn't even go out with a close-up.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
The spear may have hit the dragon in a "sweet spot" but it's probably a magical weapon and he could've hit him in the leg, it wouldn't have mattered. Those are 1 hit kill weapons IMO.