It's not about convincing Cersei to fight along side him necessarily. It's about convincing Danerys to halt her invasion and deal with the White Walkers and the only way she'll agree to do that is by establishing an armistice.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
It's not about convincing Cersei to fight along side him necessarily. It's about convincing Danerys to halt her invasion and deal with the White Walkers and the only way she'll agree to do that is by establishing an armistice.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I know it's fucked up, but I feel like Danny should have just went with "burn them all" at KL including Cersei. Kill a few thousands to save an entire continent. What if Jon and theother 6 die for this shitty plan, what then? You lose 1/2 most important people to save the entire continent (Jon) on top of like half of the best warriors in the entire continent.
Call Dorne whose gotta be waiting instead of magically disappearing because 4 people died. Get that army moving with Dothraki and body KL. Once you've laid waste to it, in particular the cunt of all 7 kingdoms, you get to save the world. Because we all know even if they do get a wight, Cersei will try to kill them somehow.because she's that much of a dumbass. I would say I can't believe Tyrion would think Cersei would agree to it considering he knows her, but he's been doing and saying dumb shit all season. For no apparent reason, Tyrion is getting outworked tactically by Jaime and Cersei. Tyrion.
Call Dorne whose gotta be waiting instead of magically disappearing because 4 people died. Get that army moving with Dothraki and body KL. Once you've laid waste to it, in particular the cunt of all 7 kingdoms, you get to save the world. Because we all know even if they do get a wight, Cersei will try to kill them somehow.because she's that much of a dumbass. I would say I can't believe Tyrion would think Cersei would agree to it considering he knows her, but he's been doing and saying dumb shit all season. For no apparent reason, Tyrion is getting outworked tactically by Jaime and Cersei. Tyrion.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
I don't ship Jon and Dany, but I doubt Jon cares about Sam's father being burnt alive after what Sam told him in S1.
The biggest joke in the latest episode is how the Maesters were all like "oh his poor father and brother, didn't have the heart to tell him" but in reality he's a fugitive from his family after STEALING A SWORD. Just like how he's now a fugitive from the Citadel after STEALING THOSE BOOKS. Sam is a serial burglar and must be stopped. Jon should execute him in the final season.
TimeEffect
Member
New twist. Maybe Ned really is his dad ....
Sam will be all "I'M TIRED OF SITTING AROUND DOING NOTHING," and steal Jon's dragonglass to go fight the White Walkers himself.
Seductivpancakes
Member
King Jon can't stop Robin Hood.
Little Old Man
Member
Stop right there criminal scum!
Edit: and just wait until his lock pick skills each 100, and he gets the necklace which removes all walking noise.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I know 2 people who have quit GoT until the final season is over so they can marathon the last 3 seasons. Their reason? Tired of the blatant and lazy white walker tease in every season that leads to nothing. It is kind of tiresome....
Sony
Nintendo
I hope we'll get to know the Night King's motivation. Like, piece of shit in KL wants to sit on the iron throne because he/she wants to rule. What is the NK's motive? Why does he want to kill everyone? What if he has, then what?
I wish them good fortune in the wars to come
I wish them good fortune in the wars to come
in avoiding spoilers
MegaSackman
Member
Well, there are other things besides the White Walkers.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yeah, I think they are nuts. One, my brother, says he doesn't care about spoilers. He won't go out of his way to look anything up, but he isn't going to hide under a rock. I think he's a madman.
But Mel has already left
I think his motivation is clear. He is tired of the cold and wants to go somewhere nice and toasty. He'll be an alright guy once he gets to King's Landing.
I know it's fucked up, but I feel like Danny should have just went with "burn them all" at KL including Cersei. Kill a few thousands to save an entire continent. What if Jon and theother 6 die for this shitty plan, what then? You lose 1/2 most important people to save the entire continent (Jon) on top of like half of the best warriors in the entire continent.
Call Dorne whose gotta be waiting instead of magically disappearing because 4 people died. Get that army moving with Dothraki and body KL. Once you've laid waste to it, in particular the cunt of all 7 kingdoms, you get to save the world. Because we all know even if they do get a wight, Cersei will try to kill them somehow.because she's that much of a dumbass. I would say I can't believe Tyrion would think Cersei would agree to it considering he knows her, but he's been doing and saying dumb shit all season. For no apparent reason, Tyrion is getting outworked tactically by Jaime and Cersei. Tyrion.
No it's not even fucked up, and thousands don't even have to die if they went straight for the Red Keep. Tyrion asking Dany to fight a war with her hands tied behind her back is asinine beyond belief. Ok so they don't go straight for the jugular as everyone besides Tyrion suggested in episode 2. Great a few hundred people had their lives saved. How many were going to starve due to the blockade Tyrion wanted to establish? How many civilians died because the Lannisters were allowed to sack High Garden?
If in 2011 NATO went to war against Assad, and after gaining intel early on to the exact whereabouts of Bashar Al-Assad, they decided not to strike that location due to fears of a high collateral count, and instead opted for a long and protracted conflict that killed magnitudes more; historians would call it one of the most tragic and idiotic military decisions ever.
Cersei isn't some terrorist leader who fucks off into the mountain regions or is moved house to house to mask her amongst civilians. She isn't someone where there's fear that a strike could be made and that she wasn't there at the time and we lost civilians life anyways. We know where she is - the Red Keep - where she has been all season. Tyrion is intentionally making them play with a handicap, trying to act like war against someone like Cersei could be fought cleanly. All the while, many, many more lives are being lost due to his decision making.
The issue with the White Walkers is that once they breach the wall they only really have a few major stopping points in their conquest of Westeros. Everywhere but the main holds/cities will be as fucked as Hardhome. Having 6 episodes of:
1) White Walkers get to city
2) White Walkers take over city
3) Surviving humans retreat south
Would be mighty boring. It's hard to write a destructive force of nature like the White Walkers unless you stick them up north and have the main cast come to them.
1) White Walkers get to city
2) White Walkers take over city
3) Surviving humans retreat south
Would be mighty boring. It's hard to write a destructive force of nature like the White Walkers unless you stick them up north and have the main cast come to them.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Jon's plan is seriously really really dumb.
Is the saying "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come" a common saying?
I thought it was super cool when it was used in the Ned flashback last season.
I also wonder if Meera is going to get her dad to come beat up Bran for being a dick only for him to announce that yes Jon is a Targ.
I thought it was super cool when it was used in the Ned flashback last season.
I also wonder if Meera is going to get her dad to come beat up Bran for being a dick only for him to announce that yes Jon is a Targ.
Vincent Alexander
Member
It is honestly dumb enough that I once again want GRRM to finish the books so I can read them some day and see what part of this plan was his, or if it is way different.
soundscream
Member
Why do people keep saying this is Jons plan?
It's the "gl hf" of Westeros.
You mean Tyrion's plan? Dany is right, dude comes up with plans that are so idiotic, that the only person that stands to benefit from them are Cersei. Take a Dragon, storm the Red Keep, secure the south, and move all the troops to the North. Those civilians lost are going to die regardless if the Night King isn't stopped. Civilians have died in the Reach due to not wanting to get any killed at the Keep. I don't understand how that's a fair trade off.
It's not even his. He was going to go fight no matter what. It's Tyrion's plan which makes it even dumber.
Jon says he will go fight whether Danny provides help or not. Of course, he will he has seen what the WW are and can do.
There was no need for this plan. They could have just brought back a captured WW as a result of the battle, and do it to convince Danny, not Cersei.
In my head this plays out much better if after receiving the raven, Jon, Davos, and Gendy set off. Not knowing what happens in this next episode, but I assume Jon lives and he is able to capture a WW. He decides you know what I am tired of no one believing me. I am going to take this captured WW and parade him to everyone.
Bring it/him back t Danny. Convince her. Then she offers a truce to Cersei. Or he comes back and Danny has decided to attack without Jon's help or input. He arrives at the battle and shows to both sides the WWs exist and the threat is real.
A truce at this point makes no sense since neither side believes in this enemy. It would have been better if Jon leaves, Danny likes him but doesn't believe him, and she decides to attack Kings Landing (in ep 7). Right now the truce seems out of place and only because she has no real next step on what to do and how to take over KL.
Yeah and again I don't know how much they are making this up themselves or if they are following some outline GRRM provided, but this just makes so more sense.
Let there be a quick battle where Danny takes over the Red Keep, show that she avoids casualties, and has the Lannisters cornered AND then at that moment have Jon and crew return from the North with proof for both sides that they need to send every resource to the North to fight the WW.
It's not for Dany's sake this plan was concocted by Tyrion, it's for Cersei's. They're bringing the zombie to show her so that Dany could then not worry about moving her troops north. Cersei, the woman who somehow got to Shea in order to fuck over Tyrion, the woman who without sufficient evidence condemned her brother, and yet Tyrion somehow believes she could be reasoned with. God damn missile (Drogon) strike her ass already.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Jon's plan or Tyrion's...it doesn't matter. It is dumb, and anyone in the room who went along with it is just as big a moron.
DarkJediKnight
Member
IF it's evident from the shows, then it's ok. The problem is a lot of fan theories stem from the books.
My wife hasn't read the books, and doesn't scrounge around message boards.
The Tower of Joy reveal was SHOCKING to her! She never put the two and two together.
But people spoiled it here with the R+L= J stuff, which is clearly from the books, and the show never gave any indication that he was a product of R+L
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
I'm pretty sure Sansa knows. I recall Brienne making a comment to her about how "broody" Jon is, but how it makes sense considering what happened to him.
DarkJediKnight
Member
It essentially means "good luck" "good journey" etc...
Mance Rayder told Stannis this as well.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Yeah you're right. Dragon fire their ass and get this shit done with. More lives are being lost and possibly the entire continent due to this pussyfooting around.
I can't believe Tyrion has turned into the dumbest person in Westeros this season. Considering he's one of my favorite characters, this hurts. What the fuck happened?
Cornballer
Member
Beautiful Death poster for "Eastwatch"
Also, more photos from Sunday's episode via Watchers, please spoiler tag any discussion.
Also, more photos from Sunday's episode via Watchers, please spoiler tag any discussion.
Twilight Princess
Member
EXACTLY!! his stupid plot armour is 10000000000000000 times more ridiculous than the teleports. HE SHOULD BE DEAD BY NOW, instead the writers reward him with a hot aunt, wtf????
Little Old Man
Member
u sound mad jelly of his inscestuous opportunities lying ahead tbh.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Yea, forgot who initially came up with the plan. I can think of better ways to convince people of the walkers just off the top of my head.
Yeah you're right. Dragon fire their ass and get this shit done with. More lives are being lost and possibly the entire continent due to this pussyfooting around.
I can't believe Tyrion has turned into the dumbest person in Westeros this season. Considering he's one of my favorite characters, this hurts. What the fuck happened?
It's like a what if scenario where Chamberlain and not Churchill is leading the fight against Germany.
"If you take your bombers, and use them to bomb their cities, you are no different then they are!"
MushroomSamba
Member
As dumb as the plan is, I'm just happy we get something as epic as Westeros' version of the Dirty Dozen pulling a kidnap/heist scheme against the army of the dead.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Do people still have beef with how Jon handled the BotB?
Not sure I see where he is "stupid" apart from that military blunder.
And again, the plot armour rubbish doesn't make sense when he's one of the bloody protagonists, with Bronn I understand. But Jon making it through BotB is just a main character living through it, nothing more.
Not sure I see where he is "stupid" apart from that military blunder.
And again, the plot armour rubbish doesn't make sense when he's one of the bloody protagonists, with Bronn I understand. But Jon making it through BotB is just a main character living through it, nothing more.
You're right. I think Sansa and a small circle of people know. But what about the Northern Lords, Littlefinger, etc? I don't think they know.
Seductivpancakes
Member
Yea his biggest mistake was that military blunder, which it's been pointed out by him on the show so it's not like it doesn't affect him.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
BotB did a better job portraying the plot armor as luck more than being "he can't die."
Honey Bunny
Member
Dany kept asking about Jon's knife to the heart. I wonder if there's something about Targaryen blood that makes that Lord of Light stuff possible.
whitemex88
Member
Nah. Beric isn't a targ
I don't see why everyone's so concerned about Cersei. I mean it's not like she's ever pulled anything shady when she had all her enemies in one room or anything oh wait...
i think cersei is drinking wine in pretty much every scene she's in
TimeEffect
Member
Yeah so whats stopping Dany from taking 3 dragons to pluck Cersei out of Red Keep? she seems to have control over them and Kings Landing doesn't seem ready, so everything should go relatively smoothly if they take a few soldiers.
TimeEffect
Member
Id love to see the Hound put Arya in her place with her creepy Faceless Man bullshit.
It'd be pretty funny considering Arya was just an adorable sassy little girl on their first journey.
The dumbest thing that entire episode was Sansa demanding to be involved in the war planning, and then when asked by Jon to give her suggestions for what they should do, responding with "I DON'T KNOW!" That's where you tell him about the Knights of the Vale Sansa smh.
Because the guy who killed thousand with a brilliant wild fire plan, has suddenly become a pacifist. Don't do anything that would directly kill any civilians in King's Landing, but hey if they die from starvation, or our civilians get killed by the enemy sacking their cities, that's ok right?