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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Here's the best I could do with Google, first is 1080p and the second is a little bigger.
The second image you quoted is difficult to find as it's too visually similar to the rest.
Finally catched up, what a ride.
But is it just me or does Westeros in season 7 thus far suddenly feel like a small county in terms of scope? The series always gave some sense of journey of the characters but now they seem to be everywhere where the writers want them to be. For example, I was like, oh, Jon is going to travel from Winterfell to Dragon Stone and then suddenly, what felt like just a moment later to me as a viewer, he is there. Many more examples. Surely some small visual cues or (small) apparent time skips can fix that to some extent at least? Pacing feels off now.
I am also tired of Littlefinger at this point, I hope he bites the dust soon as the series is clearly heading towards the climax battles and the political games are not really the focus anymore. He was cool when there were so many parties challenging each other for the throne/power and he was playing around with them.
But is it just me or does Westeros in season 7 thus far suddenly feel like a small county in terms of scope? The series always gave some sense of journey of the characters but now they seem to be everywhere where the writers want them to be. For example, I was like, oh, Jon is going to travel from Winterfell to Dragon Stone and then suddenly, what felt like just a moment later to me as a viewer, he is there. Many more examples. Surely some small visual cues or (small) apparent time skips can fix that to some extent at least? Pacing feels off now.
I am also tired of Littlefinger at this point, I hope he bites the dust soon as the series is clearly heading towards the climax battles and the political games are not really the focus anymore. He was cool when there were so many parties challenging each other for the throne/power and he was playing around with them.
soundscream
Member
Yeah, at some point you have to realize some charcters need to live to complete the story.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
They cut out travel time completely in this season. Large amounts of time are still passing by tho.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
I totally want to see entire episodes dedicated to the characters just going places.
Oh, I know. I am pointing out how dumb it is and how easily they could have kept the same narrative but with different choices.
Yup same here. Wife and I were so into the mystery of it we started reading stuff online and started putting together theories. The show does enough to hint you in the direction but had we not read the background or looked into it, the Tower of Joy scene would have been shocking.
That said, it was one of the most satisfying scenes in the whole series. Extremely well done.
I don't get why Jon doesn't want her to know.
soundscream
Member
Its crazy how some people just cant accept that. Maybe there is some genetic trait that allows you to just accept that they cut out the travel scenes. Maybe they should just put a date on the screen in the top right hand corner so people can move on.
My favorite that I wasn't aware of was Jorah getting Greyscale. We were pretty much told about it in season 2.
Catlyn went from Winterfell to KL in a single episode in the first season lol.
I don't complain about the time travel. They've done it whenever needed, in the older seasons that people think are so great. They are great, but people complain about shit now that was present then.
I would super love it though if they combined traveling with conversations I want to see happen. I feel Jon and Jorah have a lot to talk about - Jeor, Lyanna, family sword, Sam, Dany. I want to see this conversation, and they could have it while traveling on boat.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Exactly, in Jon's mind he was out of options. With Sansa withholding crucial information that could have changed their strategy completely, having accomplished Lords like Royce forming the plans it would have been solid.
Instead you have Jon planning his first offensive battle, a smuggler and a Wildling who is more accustomed to raids than traditional warfare.
The strategy they did come up with however, was decent considering their numbers. Then Rickon is killed in front of him and he charges towards certain death, he's failed. The rest is history.
There're other things I can mention, Jon knowing that there's nothing after death, also having no fight in him and wanting to leave Westeros after his resurrection.
Having Sansa pretty much beg him to fight for Winterfell even after reading Ramsay's letter etc.
Frankly, he wasn't right in the head.
Only time he felt "alive" again was in the crush,suffocating to death, that's when he wanted to live.
Eh, it's funny to see characters like Dany, Jon, Bran etc be misrepresented by people because they hate the characters, good writing or not.
¯\_(ツ
_/¯The Artisan
Member
It's Tyrion's*** plan, not Jon's plan
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Jon was dumb af for running after Rickon though. The rest of it was fine. What he did was incredibly stupid.Exactly, in Jon's mind he was out of options. With Sansa withholding crucial information that could have changed their strategy completely, having accomplished Lords like Royce forming the plans it would have been solid.
Instead you have Jon planning his first offensive battle, a smuggler and a Wildling who is more accustomed to raids than traditional warfare.
The strategy they did come up with however, was decent considering their numbers. Then Rickon is killed in front of him and he charges towards certain death, he's failed. The rest is history.
There're other things I can mention, Jon knowing that there's nothing after death, also having no fight in him and wanting to leave Westeros after his resurrection.
Having Sansa pretty much beg him to fight for Winterfell even after reading Ramsay's letter etc.
Frankly, he wasn't right in the head.
Only time he felt "alive" again was in the crush,suffocating to death, that's when he wanted to live.
Eh, it's funny to see characters like Dany, Jon, Bran etc be misrepresented by people because they hate the characters, good writing or not.
¯\_(ツ
Sansa was dumb for not telling him her plans, but it turned out better that way since Ramsay would have just stayed at Winterfell. Then again, we would need to believe that Sansa all of the sudden is an expert at warfare soo.. yeah :\
A big problem I have this season is Tyrion being the dumbest fucking person in Westeros. They better redeem his intelligent qualities by ep 6/7, or I'm going to be pissed (which means nothing lol)..
The Artisan
Member
Yeah I agree with this. Jon was being his impulsive self and went after Rickon, not really considering what Sansa told him when she said "Don't do what Ramsay wants you to do."
and at the same time Jon should've been madder at Sansa for not telling him about the Knights of the Vale.
and yeah they made Tyrion unbelievably bad this season.
soundscream
Member
Blind rage made him charge, not stupidity. If you just saw your brother killed in front of you, chances are you would go after the person who did it, no matter the odds of success.
The Artisan
Member
Ramsay was counting on it. Jon fell for the trap. It's a trap he mentally couldn't avoid seeing as how it was his brother, but Sansa said the night before "we're never getting Rickon back."
Exactly, in Jon's mind he was out of options. With Sansa withholding crucial information that could have changed their strategy completely, having accomplished Lords like Royce forming the plans it would have been solid.
Instead you have Jon planning his first offensive battle, a smuggler and a Wildling who is more accustomed to raids than traditional warfare.
The strategy they did come up with however, was decent considering their numbers. Then Rickon is killed in front of him and he charges towards certain death, he's failed. The rest is history.
There're other things I can mention, Jon knowing that there's nothing after death, also having no fight in him and wanting to leave Westeros after his resurrection.
Having Sansa pretty much beg him to fight for Winterfell even after reading Ramsay's letter etc.
Frankly, he wasn't right in the head.
Only time he felt "alive" again was in the crush,suffocating to death, that's when he wanted to live.
Eh, it's funny to see characters like Dany, Jon, Bran etc be misrepresented by people because they hate the characters, good writing or not.
¯\_(ツ
Sansa was weird that whole season with some of the things she was spouting.
"Please Jon, we have to take our home back, we have to save Rickon!"
*A few episodes later*
"Eh, Rickon is dead anyways, and the only suggestion I will give you is to not do what he wants you to do."
Well thank you Sansa for being so informative.
sansa keeping the secret is what made them win the battle of the bastards, if sansa had told him about the knights of the vale, ramsay wouldnt have fought against jon, he only did because he knew he would win, and he did.
until the vale arrived
The Artisan
Member
I wish they didn't cut away when Brienne asked Sansa why she was dishonest with Jon. I'd like to actually hear what was on her mind instead of her own facial expressions and then later the audience trying to figure out for ourselves what Sansa is really thinking of Jon.
The Artisan
Member
? they would have won the battle with fewer casualties if Sansa told Jon and Sansa knew it. "I should've told you about the Knights of the Vale, I'm sorry." Then Jon has to tell her that they need to trust each other.
edit: sorry for double post
It's called pacing. While characters are taveling to one place, we can cut away to other characters doing important stuff. Euron, Greyworm, Yara and all them have been neglected for the past couple of episodes. Plus there are many scenes where the characters could stand to talk to one another. Maybe on the way North, we get Jorah talking to Jon about Sam. Or we get Gendry talking about Arya. The problem is that things are moving too fast. Maybe we should take some time to just breathe.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Just because he was with blind rage, doesn't mean he was not stupid as fuck. What he did was incredibly stupid and could have easily died if he wasn't the main character of this story lol. And no in that case you shouldn't. That was an obvious death sentence.
She told him that she would go after it herself if he didn't help her, so he obliged at the end. And Rickon was dead at that point, she was right about it.
The Artisan
Member
it's bothering me to no end how Theon (and GW, Meera & Bran for that matter) were completely absent from the last episode. Bran was in one episode but why wasn't he around for Sansa & Arya's quarrels. And where the fuck did Theon go? He could've accompanied Jon on the suicide mission. Would've been a great addition. They also could've shown GW catching up to the Dothraki by the time that loot battle ended, seeing as how everyone moved so fast in the episode.
The Artisan
Member
I can't help you find the pictures, but I like your avatar
the only reason they won was because Ramsay didnt accounted for the knights of the vale, if he had find out about them he would just stay on winterfell and let the winter kill his enemies
We actually saw some of the Ironborn pushing the boat into the water. Theon has just disappeared until we need him again. I guess he wasn't interested in accompanying Jon to this super important mission, even though he kind of owes him.
The Artisan
Member
Ramsay would've never known about them anyway. Jon, Davos & Tormund knowing definitely would not have hurted.
We'll never know if Theon wouldn't be interested in helping Jon (I disagree btw I think he definitely would, just like he helped Sansa...I think his loyalty lies with the Starks just as it does with the Targaryen now) but where do you remember seeing Ironborn in this episode? Was it when Jon was leaving?
cartographer
Member
I can't think of a single thing Theon could positively contribute to that stupid plan other than being a meatshield.
of course he would have know, do you really think they didnt scout jons army?
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
It's impossible for us to know if that's the way it would've happened.
You can't use that as an argument for Sansa withholding that information.
They had weeks(months?) to plan this.
Not to mention the KOTV were so close that it's ridiculous that Ramsay had no idea.
Sansa was being cryptic for reasons I still don't understand, she even complains to Jon that they should wait for more men yet she has thousands at her reach.
All she had to do was say the word.
I dunno, I watched the first season without any knowledge of book stuff and not touching an internet thread at all for books or movies and I thought the R+L=J stuff was really obvious. There are tons of clues to it in that season alone.
Obviously that is the other end of the stick, which I don't want. It is just that the world feels smaller to me this season. I get that they are heading for the climax and need to align and solve story arcs swiftly to do so, but some things just felt a bit "sudden" to me. Offcourse I know that time lapses inbetween scenes.
Okay work with me here on the Sansa thing. I'll try to give her some credit here.
She'd intentionally act like they need to save Rickon, to convince Jon to fight. He doesn't want to and she needs him. Of course she knows Rickon is not going to survive after being captured by Ramsay, but mentioning that does no good as far as convincing Jon to fight. She intentionally keeps shut until it benefits her to mention it.
She was present at the battle of Blackwater, which was won in a very similar fashion to Bastards. Stannis moved in because he had the numbers. She knows Ramsay. She could know he'd agree to meet them in the field if he believed he had the advantage, and not hide behind Winterfells walls. Ned has mentioned before how well Winterfell could defend itself.
So keep that information from everyone, the fight begins, and then surprise Ramsay's forces with the Vales.
Also, if Jon died, she'd be okay with that. I don't think she WANTS him to die, she did warn Jon not to fall for Ramsay's trap. But if he did, so be it.
I think it works. Yes? No?
She'd intentionally act like they need to save Rickon, to convince Jon to fight. He doesn't want to and she needs him. Of course she knows Rickon is not going to survive after being captured by Ramsay, but mentioning that does no good as far as convincing Jon to fight. She intentionally keeps shut until it benefits her to mention it.
She was present at the battle of Blackwater, which was won in a very similar fashion to Bastards. Stannis moved in because he had the numbers. She knows Ramsay. She could know he'd agree to meet them in the field if he believed he had the advantage, and not hide behind Winterfells walls. Ned has mentioned before how well Winterfell could defend itself.
So keep that information from everyone, the fight begins, and then surprise Ramsay's forces with the Vales.
Also, if Jon died, she'd be okay with that. I don't think she WANTS him to die, she did warn Jon not to fall for Ramsay's trap. But if he did, so be it.
I think it works. Yes? No?
Cornballer
Member
Following up on the S8 date speculation, Collider talked to NCW the other day:
And their date guess is in line with what we were estimating before:Nikolaj Coster-Waldau said:
Collider said:
The Artisan
Member
Theon was mowing people down in episode 2, he stopped only when his uncle triggered PTSDon. He would've been an asset if he came along.
but he didn't know. the only difference with telling Jon is that he wouldn't have had his army charge the way they did; they definitely wouldn't have fought the same if they thought there were gonna be no reinforcements.
i see it as if jon had knew about the knights of the vale, he would have waited for they to arrive so make a plan including them.
this would prompt ramsay to just stay in winterfell and hold a siege.
soundscream
Member
September 2018 would be ok in my book.
Seductivpancakes
Member
This plan hinges on the fact that if she thinks she can rally the North, and seeing as the majority of them turned her and Jon Snow down prior the battle, I doubt they would. So I guess she'd have Winterfell back, but without any support from either the wildlings or the North, she'd be a in poor position against Cersei. Hell, right now, the North, under Jon Snow is kind of in a poor position to fight Cersei.This is prior to Dany's invasion of course.
Also it was Lyanna Mormont who got Jon crowned and she's Jon's #1 fan, not Sansa's.
Lol Theon's own people think he ain't shit why would anyone want him on a mission like that?
So she's a mini version of LF but with a not so dark heart? Manipulating Jon by dangling Rickon at him knowing that he was dead the minute Ramsay got him, is some dark shit.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
That's exactly when. They pushed the boats out to the water. I'm pretty sure I recognized a few of them.
But yeah. I was being sarcastic. I think Theon should have joined the squad heading north. He's a capable fighter.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
I don't think Theon would've helped. He's focused on rescuing his sister, no?
It's pretty much exactly what she did. I mean we're not even reading these scenes out of context lol.
"We have to save our brother, we have to take Winterfell back from the Boltons!"
*Right before the battle*
Jon: "What about Rickon?"
Sansa: "Oh him, he was dead the minute he was handed to Ramsay."
Jon,
