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[DopeyFish]

Rhaegar should have notified others before scurrying off and pissing off everybody.

You can't pin this on any particular person, really. He made the mistake in keeping his love secret.

It would have been the death of jon and the starks

 

[SofNasciment-]

It's not "just because" or that nothing has happened to indicate her control over her dragons because we've seen a lot of those indications.

You think the dragons getting older made them more "controllable" or was it something Daenerys did?

 

[Hyun Sai]

Ok question time:

"Winter is coming" So I never understood if this just means to Westeros or the entire world? Say the White walkers returned and conquered Westeros. What about the other nations across the sea? Dorne, The Dothraki homeland, etc? Would they be completely unaffected by winter and the white walkers? I don't see how the white walkers pose a threat to them. So if Jon and company failed, Westeros would be gone, but humanity would still live on in the lands across the ocean, etc. or is there something I'm missing? From the books perhaps?

I think it's a Westeros thing.

 

[Volimar]

Ok question time:

"Winter is coming" So I never understood if this just means to Westeros or the entire world? Say the White walkers returned and conquered Westeros. What about the other nations across the sea? Dorne, The Dothraki homeland, etc? Would they be completely unaffected by winter and the white walkers? I don't see how the white walkers pose a threat to them. So if Jon and company failed, Westeros would be gone, but humanity would still live on in the lands across the ocean, etc. or is there something I'm missing? From the books perhaps?

Normally Essos and Sothos er w/e it's called get spared the long winters I think. At least they've never shown much interest in Winter. But I wonder, if the Night King were to get all of Westeros as his army, if that would give him the power to freeze the Narrow Sea and cross it.

 

[Einchy]

You think the dragons getting older made them more "controllable" or was it something Daenerys did?

Targaryens have a magical connection to dragons and it felt like as they were getting older, they became more powerful and unruly, but that magical connection really kicked in once her life was in danger. They've been completely in synch since the attack on the Pit.

 

[pablito]

Thinking about it more this morning: the magnificent seven's plan is incredibly stupid:

Go North of the wall, on a suicide mission, with the king of the north himself (delegate much?), to capture a white walker alive, to bring it down to King's Landing somehow, to convince Cersei of all people to suspend war and mutual defend the realm.

They don't need a white walker. An undead will do. They can demonstrate trying to kill it conventionally, it not working, and then killing it with a working method.

Cersei has been willing to cooperate with enemies before. With Olenna and trying to get Margery and Tommen back. She turned on them in the end, but she did cooperate. I don't think trying to appeal to Cersei is stupid. We only know it's not going to work as viewers, so it seems pointless.

Only thing about this that's kind of stupid to me is Jon risking himself. He's got dragonglass now so he should send a team up there with it. He's no longer the only one with experience fighting the dead with Tormund there.

 

[danthefan]

Just started ep5.

Jaime alive and not captured.

Fuck off, this is beyond stupid.

 

[Heshinsi]

Rhaegar should have notified others before scurrying off and pissing off everybody.

You can't pin this on any particular person, really. He made the mistake in keeping his love secret.



There's nothing undiplomatic about having your sister being kidnapped by the Crown Prince and going to inquire about it. He shouldn't have threatened him, yes. But he had the right to question wtf was Rhaegar doing.

Show up to KL armed and with your buddies throwing demands at the Mad King, is beyond stupid and it hours back to LF comment of the Starks having quick tempers and slow minds. If he actually cared about his sister, he wouldn't be ok with her being bethrowed to a womaniser shit head like Robert. So he automatically assumes it was a kidnapping and then starts issuing demands and threats at the one person in Westeros you shouldn't be doing that to.

You mean Lyanna and Rhaegar are pricks right? They did get married after all lol. I don't think anyone counted on Ned Strak's brother to go galloping down to KL and do what he did.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

It would have been the death of jon and the starks

Hence Rhaegar and Lyanna's escapade being the start of the war.

Anyone blaming Brandon, Robert or even Aerys is being unreasonable.

Rhaegar's move began the turn of events that led to the death of not only his family but many others.

Show up to KL armed and with your buddies throwing demands at the Mad King, is beyond stupid and it hours back to LF comment of the Starks having quick tempers and slow minds. If he actually cared about his sister, he wouldn't be ok with her being bethrowed to a womaniser shit head like Robert. So he automatically assumes it was a kidnapping and then starts issuing demands and threats at the one person in Westeros you shouldn't be doing that to.

Anyone would assume something went wrong. You can't blame Brandon for his reaction, Rhaegar messed up by not letting them know Lyanna was safe. Instead there was nothing but silence.

He had to know that this will bring war. What Robert is doesn't make what Rhaegar did any better. He spurned his family and his annulment made them bastards. He's not the honourable fella they say he is.

 

[SofNasciment-]

Targaryens have a magical connection to dragons and it felt like as they were getting older, they became more powerful and unruly, but that magical connection really kicked in once her life was in danger. They've been completely in synch since the attack on the Pit.

That makes sense. Drogon "recognizing" Jon would also fit that connection.

 

[Sephzilla]

Just started ep5.

Jaime alive and not captured.

Fuck off, this is beyond stupid.

why is it stupid?

-- dude vanished after a failed attempt at offing Dany
-- Dany likely never saw Jamie even fall into the water since the dragon was blocking her view
-- She had no idea who that person likely was

 

[Conkerkid11]

why is it stupid?

-- dude vanished after a failed attempt at offing Dany
-- Dany likely never saw Jamie even fall into the water since the dragon was blocking her view
-- She had no idea who that person likely was

Because Bronn would have had to swim both Jaime in full armor and himself down the river far enough to get away from the entire battle that just took place.

 

[peteykirch]

why is it stupid?

-- dude vanished after a failed attempt at offing Dany
-- Dany likely never saw Jamie even fall into the water since the dragon was blocking her view
-- She had no idea who that person likely was

Except Tyrion saw the entire thing.

I know he doesn't want to see Jaime hurt, so he most likely never told her it was Jaime that was charging at her with a spear.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Because Bronn would have had to swim both Jaime in full armor and himself down the river far enough to get away from the entire battle that just took place.

Exactly, I would've preferred they were caught. It was a dumb opening.

 

[rudger]

What if the Hound becomes a WW and they bring him back to the red keep and he fights the Zombi Mountain?

I've posted this idea twice! Nobody was responding though so maybe it's just us...

 

[ComputerBlue]

I think it's a Westeros thing.

I think you're wrong. But neither of us can prove it.

Normally Essos and Sothos er w/e it's called get spared the long winters I think. At least they've never shown much interest in Winter. But I wonder, if the Night King were to get all of Westeros as his army, if that would give him the power to freeze the Narrow Sea and cross it.

I don't think they're safe from normal winters either, but in terms of long nights, ones similar to old nan's story. They at the very least must not be able to grow food because of climate change.

I find it very hard to believe that it wont be affected at all, otherwise they could just hire Eurons men to quick build and sail every important person to Essos and continue to live their lives there.

That would really shitty if GRRM or the show avoided even bringing Essos into it.

 

[Nameless]

Except Tyrion saw the entire thing.

I know he doesn't want to see Jaime hurt, so he most likely never told her it was Jaime that was charging at her with a spear.

And with what happened to the Tarly's he no doubt feels his decision was justified.

 

[Conkerkid11]

I've posted this idea twice! Nobody was responding though so maybe it's just us...

Lots and lots and lots of people have discussed this though.

 

[Sephzilla]

Except Tyrion saw the entire thing.

I know he doesn't want to see Jaime hurt, so he most likely never told her it was Jaime that was charging at her with a spear.

Yeah, I figured Tyrion wouldn't tell her that was Jaime.

POTENTIAL HOT TAKE:

Spoiler

I don't think Tyrion survives this season

 

[ComputerBlue]

Because Bronn would have had to swim both Jaime in full armor and himself down the river far enough to get away from the entire battle that just took place.

Not to mention they surfaced well away from battle making it seem like they were stealth swimming and holding their breath for how long, 5+ minutes, lol.

It seemed a little ridiculous to me as well.

 

[JonnyKong]

Pretty good ep, but so many things are happening in such a weird (yes rushed) effort just because it's convenient for the plot.

Jamie and Bronn getting away too easily and too unrealistically, again convenient for the plot.

I'm not even sure why Dany approached Jon with her dragon in the first place? It seemed they put in this random scene (even though it was a good one) just so the audience can be aware that Jon is going be another rider of these dragons.

I'm sure there's more things I can mention (everyone zipping around Westeros within days rather than weeks, the Brotherhood turning up in jail) all seem too fast and it's jarring.

Don't get me wrong I'm still enjoying the show, but you can't half tell they're running low on episode numbers.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

And with what happened to the Tarly's he no doubt feels his decision was justified.

But Tarlys got roasted after. We needes Tyrion to at least acknowledge he didn't immiediately forget about his brother.

 

[Hyun Sai]

I don't think they're safe from normal winters either, but in terms of long nights, ones similar to old nan's story. They at the very least they must not be able to grow food because of climate change..

I don't know. If GRMM is somewhat mimicking the real world, there could be places with no winter at all.

 

[Heshinsi]

Targaryens have a magical connection to dragons and it felt like as they were getting older, they became more powerful and unruly, but that magical connection really kicked in once her life was in danger. They've been completely in synch since the attack on the Pit.

A little bit before that actually. He first starts showing signs that he cares about Mommy when he returned to check up on her, after the freed slaves and the Master start fighting. He shows up, seed that mom is ok, and then goes, "nah you're not the boss of me" and flies off. But it's the moment where she truly is in danger that he finally goes, "no one touches my mommy!"

I loved how he instinctively showed his armoured chest to the arrows when they were fired at Dany, and how he protectively shields Dany from Jaime. The best Queen's Guard a girl could ever ask for.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

I'm not even sure why Dany approached Jon with her dragon in the first place? It seemed they put in this random scene (even though it was a good one) just so the audience can be aware that Jon is going be another rider of these dragons.

It was Drogon who approached Jon, not Dany. It's why she was confused with what was going on down there.

 

[Loxley]

I think we're at like a 99% chance of a fairly major character death happening next week.

Guaranteed to survive: Jon and Gendry

Biggest targets for the showrunners to kill: The Hound, Tormund, and Jorah

Wild Cards: Beric and Thoros.

My personal bets: Jon, Gendry, Beric, and Tormund survive. The Hound, Thoros, and Jorah bite the dust. In fact, I think it would be pretty interesting if one of the squad dies, becomes a Whitewalker, and ends up being the one that the group takes to show Cersei. Imagine if Dany had to drag Whitewalker Jorah around.

 

[rudger]

Lots and lots and lots of people have discussed this though.

I must have missed those posts. There are a lot of posts here...apologies

 

[Nameless]

But Tarlys got roasted after. We needes Tyrion to at least acknowledge he didn't immiediately forget about his brother.

No we don't. He was calling him a fucking idiot, wishing he'd get out of there. To turn around and try and have him and Bronn captured wouldn't make sense.

 

[Einchy]

A little bit before that actually. He first starts showing signs that he cares about Mommy when he returned to check up on her, after the freed slaves and the Master start fighting. He shows up, seed that mom is ok, and then goes, "nah you're not the boss of me" and flies off. But it's the moment where she truly is in danger that he finally goes, "no one touches my mommy!"

I loved how he instinctively showed his armoured chest to the arrows when they were fired at Dany, and how he protectively shields Dany from Jaime. The best Queen's Guard a girl could ever ask for.

Well, I don't think they ever truly lost the connections, which that scene that you reference lets us know, but like I said, it's really made solid when she's in danger.

Speaking of dragons, though, I wish they would give the others a bit more screentime. I know it's not really like this but you'd think she doesn't care about the others.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

why is it stupid?

-- dude vanished after a failed attempt at offing Dany
-- Dany likely never saw Jamie even fall into the water since the dragon was blocking her view
-- She had no idea who that person likely was

Daenerys may be inexperienced as a ruler and warrior, but to believe that she intends to conquer the seven kingdoms while having no idea who currently holds power is completely unbelievable. I'm pretty sure she knows who Jaime Lannister is, what he looks like, and can put two and two together as he's charging her. "Huh, that guy has really expensive armor and the best horse here... must just be a random foot soldier. I definitely shouldn't spend any time confirming he died." That scene was complete horseshit.

 

[Heshinsi]

It was Drogon who approached Jon, not Dany. It's why she was confused with what was going on down there.

Yep. Drogon is the one controlling this flight lol.

 

[AuthenticM]

Let,s do this!!

yaa booooiii!!

 

[Conkerkid11]

I'm not even sure why Dany approached Jon with her dragon in the first place? It seemed they put in this random scene (even though it was a good one) just so the audience can be aware that Jon is going be another rider of these dragons.

That scene felt weird to me as well. Actually shouted, "why did that just happen!?" after it ended.

At first I didn't see Dany on the dragon, so I just assumed it was a random encounter between Jon and one of the dragons. Dany being there ruined it though. And while her initial reaction made sense (if I recall correctly, the look on her face indicated she was surprised he didn't just get eaten), but then as soon as she hops off the dragon, it feels like an entirely different scene, and she turns into this weird arrogant version of herself that she's been all season, like it's normal for her dragons to be so calm around people.

 

[Timbuktu]

Not to mention they surfaced well away from battle making it seem like they were stealth swimming and holding their breath for how long, 5+ minutes, lol.

It seemed a little ridiculous to me as well.

It would be ok if they didn't show them sinking straight down at the end of last ep. I would just have to assume the flow of the water deeper down carried them down stream.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, I figured Tyrion wouldn't tell her that was Jaime.

POTENTIAL HOT TAKE:

Spoiler

I don't think Tyrion survives this season

Given that there are leaks out there, I would advise against putting your future theories under spoiler tags. Just sayin' it looks weird since guessing isn't exactly a spoiler.

Especially when they're as random as this one. Tyrion's sitting in a giant castle on an island defended by three dragons and several legions of Dothraki, which Jaime already established are superior to the Westerosi in combat. Even assuming Euron took the Iron Fleet there, there's no reason whatsoever to assume they're particularly good at traditional land warfare. All they could really do is blockade Dragonstone.

 

[Einchy]

Yep. Drogon is the one controlling this flight lol.

 

[Robdraggoo]

So reahgar divorces his wife and leaves her in kings landing when she had no business there. Ultimately leading to her and there children's death.

Then married his new wife in the home (dorne) of his ex-wife

Reahgars a dick

 

[Frillen]

Can someone explain the whole Arya and Littlefinger plot? What is in the letter and why would LF want Arya to read it? Thanks!

 

[ComputerBlue]

I don't know. If GRMM is somewhat mimicking the real world, there could be places with no winter at all.

Then why stay in Westeros. All these years spent trying to warn others of this impending doom when you could have slowly been building lives across the sea.

Build an army and conquer Essos and inhabit there. Why even stay and waste lives?

 

[Heshinsi]

Hahaha exactly.

 

[JHall]

Clegane bowl will happen. It has to happen.

 

[Hyun Sai]

So reahgar divorces his wife and leaves her in kings landing when she had no business there. Ultimately leading to her and there children's death.

Then married his new wife in the home (dorne) of his ex-wife

Reahgars a dick

Getting crushed by Robert hammer was a too good ending for the fucker.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Can someone explain the whole Arya and Littlefinger plot? What is in the letter and why would LF want Arya to read it? Thanks!

People asked this question a lot of times now, shows how bad it was executed and how stupid this forced plot is.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Can someone explain the whole Arya and Littlefinger plot? What is in the letter and why would LF want Arya to read it? Thanks!

It's the note Cersei forced Sansa to write saying Ned conspired to take the throne. Presumably, he wants Arya to think Sansa really felt that way, thus inciting a clash between them.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

No we don't. He was calling him a fucking idiot, wishing he'd get out of there. To turn around and try and have him and Bronn captured wouldn't make sense.

Acknowleding doesn't mean turning him in. I mean any kind of hint or sign of Tyrion giving a shit about him. A look at the water where Jamie went in would be enough. Or he sees them downriver and pretends he didn't. Anything. Something. What we got was crap.

 

[Sephzilla]

Given that there are leaks out there, I would advise against putting your future theories under spoiler tags. Just sayin' it looks weird since guessing isn't exactly a spoiler.

Especially when they're as random as this one. Tyrion's sitting in a giant castle on an island defended by three dragons and several legions of Dothraki, which Jaime already established are superior to the Westerosi in combat. Even assuming Euron took the Iron Fleet there, there's no reason whatsoever to assume they're particularly good at traditional land warfare. All they could really do is blockade Dragonstone.

alright, i'll not spoiler those for future reference. i forgot the leaks are out there.

i'm getting the feeling that there is dissension among Dany's council and Dany wasn't wrong about Tryion having a soft spot for some of his former allies. I wonder if maybe he's going to do something that gets him in trouble, especially if they actually are planting seeds for a Dany heel turn

 

[Heshinsi]

Then why stay in Westeros. All these years spent trying to warn others of this impending doom when you could have slowly been building lives across the sea.

Build an army and conquer Essos and inhabit there. Why even stay and waste lives?

You saw Essos, does it look like a place Westerosi armies could conquer? Besides their own armies and mercenary groups, they have wild people like the Dothraki, magic dude's like that faceless men. An invading Westerosi force would be smashed and thrown back into the sea.

 

[jmood88]

The pacing and writing have both genuinely been suspect at times this season. The writing issue back to season 4, despite it being my personaly favourite season. Its reached quite poor levels in season 5 (dorne), 6 (braavos) and this season (littlefinger).

Let's not act like negative opinions hold less value than positive ones for the show. Both are equally valid if well argued.

And no pacing isn't just an issue of 'well I don't want to see such and such on a boat' etc.


Next week looking hype though. Despite my complaints the show never fails to deliver great spectacle.

I have no problem with people criticizing the show but pacing in particular has been a complaint in every single thread on this site no matter the show or episode count.

 

[SargerusBR]

Guaranteed to survive: Jon and Gendry

Biggest targets for the showrunners to kill: The Hound, Tormund, and Jorah

Wild Cards: Beric and Thoros.

My personal bets: Jon, Gendry, Beric, and Tormund survive. The Hound, Thoros, and Jorah bite the dust. In fact, I think it would be pretty interesting if one of the squad dies, becomes a Whitewalker, and ends up being the one that the group takes to show Cersei. Imagine if Dany had to drag Whitewalker Jorah around.

From the trailer we know that

Spoiler

the Hound

survives.

 

[RadarScope1]

I think Thoros and Tormund are the two who don't make it back from the suicide quest. The others all have one common thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=246086790&postcount=19003