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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

Does anyone else notice that the White Walkers and the Wights carry close combat weapons - swords, mace, spears etc... They have no projectiles like arrows.

Is it just me or are they ridiculously easy to defeat with 3 dragons. We already know the wights die by fire. All Dany has to do is strafing runs with 3 dragons and take them all out.

Night King might be a different story, but the army is nothing with 3 dragons flying high and raining fire.
 
Glad I wasn't only one thinking Cersei isn't pregnant. But the question I asked, if she isn't, is what is going on with her?

It's just a tactic to keep Jamie obedient and loyal.

Jamie sparred Olenna a screaming death, told Cersei they can't win, and he met Tyrion, I'm sure to her it feels like he's slipping, this ensures he's love struck and loyal, until he can be replaced with a better pawn.
 

redfox088

Banned
The White Walkers have been the endgame since the first scene of the first episode. No way the show offs them in the span of two episodes in the penultimate season.
Like I said he show doesn't have to off them this season. There is no rigid template that says you can only have one conflict in the final season.
 
"Pacing" has just become yet another catch-all term for whatever people don't like.

Similar to "I don't like this so it's bad writing".

The pacing and writing have both genuinely been suspect at times this season. The writing issue back to season 4, despite it being my personaly favourite season. Its reached quite poor levels in season 5 (dorne), 6 (braavos) and this season (littlefinger).

Let's not act like negative opinions hold less value than positive ones for the show. Both are equally valid if well argued.

And no pacing isn't just an issue of 'well I don't want to see such and such on a boat' etc.


Next week looking hype though. Despite my complaints the show never fails to deliver great spectacle.
 
Who else remember this when Daenerys said the dragons were not beasts to her, but her children:

She-shackles-Rhaegal-Viserion-underground-where-cant-hurt-anyone.gif
 

Sendero

Member
Good hype-rising episode. But there were 3 moments I didn't like:

*Jaime escaping. He is both Cercei's lover/brother AND her main army general. Searching for him should have been absolutely paramount for Daenerys forces above anything else. Tyrion should also have assumed that he was drowning, so he should have tried to make a case to try fishing him out.
*Both the meeting of Tyrion+Jaime and the Brotherhood on the jail felt quite rushed and almost dumped on us. Should have been big moments, but were barely touched.


The rest though, was pretty good:

*Varys seems to be legit. He apparently really is in for the best of the common people. I assume he was the one that contacted Bronn. Still unsure what will be his final master move, though.
*Tyrion is drinking again!
*Lena Headey has been great as Cercei lately. She really looks out of fucks.
*Cercei suggestion of punishing Bronn: some foreshadowing?
*They are beautiful aren't they? Jon: "Not the word I was.." Dany's murdering stare.
*Ser Davos still having the best lines. The moment he said that he had some business in KL, I raised my fist.
*Gendry is now pretty talkative and earnest. Seeing Melissandre naked up-close tends to do that. The tit-for-tat with Jon was a nice callback to the meeting of Robert and Ned from the very first episode. The Bastard bros.
*Jorah really did get in time to meet Daenery's latest crush. And by that last glance on the boat, it seems he is not returning. Best Mormont is still alive anyway.
*That casual revelation. From Gilly, of all people.
*Unsure what will be Sam's role now. Perhaps reveal the identity of the Night King? He has a valyrian sword, though.
*I think Arya and Sansa are acting on character. They both have always been at odds at each other, and Sansa has been shown multiple times how displeased she is with her being passed by as Queen in the North. And Arya can tell.
*Littlefinger clearly is the one messing with the leaders, to support Sansa instead.
*Arya being so overtly open on trailing Littlefinger, with no mask or anything, made it seems like she is doing it on purpose. Littlefinger is for sure not done yet, though.
*While I don't support Daenerys approach, there is merit on the execution of the Tarlys: They both were oathbreakers and also participated on defeating/murdering their own kin. And practically spitted on the offer of taking the Black. Has she not followed through, she would have been seen as weak/naive by everyone (instead of good willed), including the Dothraki. And by doing it openly, she forced the remaining doubters to pledge alliance as well as cutting any further dissidence. So in essence, it saved lives.

Still, she should have consulted Tyrion first, before doing her speech. AND should have commanded everyone to search for Jaime.
*The preview looks insane. Need to start taking bets.


Extra:

> Ser Davos is their main sailsman + scoundrel. He is their best chance to quickly return to KL and try to pass through the guards there. So, it's wise for him not to risk it. Plus, he knows the party is unbalanced. Luckily, Benjen is still around.

>On the Behind the scenes video, D&D made it sound like they were the ones that came up with the idea on how to re-introduce Gendry (via Davos). Which I guess is possible, since George is likely still trying to figure out small details like that.

>On Cercei being pregnant: probably already mentioned, but there was a small scene on S04E01 where Qyburn apparently is treating her for some "symptoms". I recalled it, and think it's foreshadowing that she cannot longer be so. That would add weight to her despair, after all her children died. Specially since Tywin hammered her about Legacy being everything.

Also, the witch prophecy does foretell that she will only have 3 offsprings. So -either way-, she knows it's not happening, thus is deliberately lying to Jaime.
 
So basically how I see the last 2 eps working:

Next ep has a big exciting battle with the Walkers to capture and escape with a Wight, many casualties.

Finale has a meeting between the two major parties, something big and shocking will happen to set the tone for the final season (Cersei has Dany killed?).
 
So basically how I see the last 2 eps working:

Next ep has a big exciting battle with the Walkers to capture and escape with a Wight, many casualties.

Finale has a meeting between the two major parties, something big and shocking will happen to set the tone for the final season (Cersei has Dany killed?).
Or most likely the end of Cersei. Tyrion knows her sister and they will expect a trap.
 

pablito

Member
If people die in the next episode, I can see it being Beric and Thoros. Maybe Jorah. I feel like we're not done with The Hound and Gendry. I'd like Jorah to witness his Khaleesi kicking some ass before he bites it, but that farewell was good and final feeling.

Someone mentioned The Hound becoming a wight and being brought to KL. If he dies I can see them going with that.
 
The White Walkers have been the endgame since the first scene of the first episode. No way the show offs them in the span of two episodes in the penultimate season.

If the entire season is devoted to the walkers, will they get more development? Their goals, maybe even getting to know more characters? They've got to have weapons, dragon counters/equals, and maybe even allies.
 

-griffy-

Banned
Trying to remember: Do you need dragonglass for wights or just white walkers?

I don't know that we've ever seen dragonglass used on a wight, but Jon's Valyrian steel sword didn't seem to do much to wights at Hardhome other than chop them up. I don't think you can do anything to stop the wights other than cut them down so they are immobilized and/or burn them. Both definitely effective on White Walkers though.
 
If the entire season is devoted to the walkers, will they get more development? Their goals, maybe even getting to know more characters? They've got to have weapons, dragon counters/equals, and maybe even allies.
Not enough time. Only 7 more episode left now. Your best bet are the books if they ever come out.
 
Good hype-rising episode. But there were 3 moments I didn't like:

*Jaime escaping. He is both Cercei's lover/brother AND her main army general. Searching for him should have been absolutely paramount for Daenerys forces above anything else. Tyrion should also have assumed that he was drowning, so he should have tried to make a case to try fishing him out.
*Both the meeting of Tyrion+Jaime and the Brotherhood on the jail felt quite rushed and almost dumped on us. Should have been big moments, but were barely touched.
This really bugged me too. They tried to cover it up by having him be downriver, but yeah. Tyrion saw his brother go in the water and never looked for him. Never mentioned him. Then knew he was alive to go meet him? Pretty shoddy writing on that piece.
 
Not enough time. Only 7 more episode left now. Your best bet are the books if they ever come out.

But if most the Game of Thrones stuff is knocked out this season, then whats left?

I guess some of it will carry over or we'll end on a cliffhanger that leaves some leftover stuff to clean up next season
 

effzee

Member
"Pacing" has just become yet another catch-all term for whatever people don't like.

Def agree here, especially when people now keep narrowing the show to the first season or first three seasons as the only time when it was ever good.

I have found each season to have strong points, so so episodes, and then better episodes. Personally, season 5 suffered the most from this but season 6 is my favorite so it moves back and forth.

Anyway this episode....as much as I am enjoying this season so far, this episode felt off and I didn't really care for it.

Things:

Jamie and Bronn surviving by just swimming up and to the other side is beyond stupid. All week I kept thinking they would be captured, setting up amazing plot points with Jamie, Danny, Jon, and of course Tyrion in the same room. Nope, they just swim away.

Why don't Danny her ppl look for Jamie and Bronn? Why are they basically allowed to leave?

This leads to the IMO very stupid plan of sneaking in Tyrion just to get a 5 min chat with Jamie. Again if he was captured we could have seen Tyrion beg for mercy for his brother, have Danny spare him BUT only if he goes back to Cersei with the terms of the truce.

OR needing that proof, Jamie becomes one of the men who go the East Watch to see first hand and to bring back to Cersei.

I like where the end up at the end of the episode, not how they got there.

Also dislike the Aryan v Sansa plotline, especially considering they just finally reunited after years and terrible horribles done to them and their families. I see some people saying they might be playing LF but I have a bad feeling they will go with the whole LF manipulates Sansa into being against Jon and Arya angle. Hope not. Especially when Bran is there and Sansa herself mentions he is not to be trusted.

Final 2 episodes have a lot to wrap up unless some of thie King's Landing stuff is going to bleed into next season. I thought they would wrap up the Danny invasion this season and have next year be all about the WWs.
 

OrionX

Member
It's just a tactic to keep Jamie obedient and loyal.

Jamie sparred Olenna a screaming death, told Cersei they can't win, and he met Tyrion, I'm sure to her it feels like he's slipping, this ensures he's love struck and loyal, until he can be replaced with a better pawn.

I think so too. It'll be the lie that finally ends their relationship and leads to her downfall.

Cersei thinks she's gonna pull that "please, spare my baby!" sympathy card. Nope. Not falling for it. Please dracarys her soon, Khaleesi, for everyone's sake!
 
Or most likely the end of Cersei. Tyrion knows her sister and they will expect a trap.
Yeah. I suppose that'd make it easier to see the show wrapping up in 6 more episodes.

With Cersei gone it'd be much easier to forge an alliance and fight off the Walkers and live happily ever after.
 
Do they seriously spoil: Preview talk,

that five people get away? If looks like the gate is about to close. Would really suck if that's how they escape. Counted 5.
 
Def agree here, especially when people now keep narrowing the show to the first season or first three seasons as the only time when it was ever good.

I have found each season to have strong points, so so episodes, and then better episodes. Personally, season 5 suffered the most from this but season 6 is my favorite so it moves back and forth.

Anyway this episode....as much as I am enjoying this season so far, this episode felt off and I didn't really care for it.

Things:

Jamie and Bronn surviving by just swimming up and to the other side is beyond stupid. All week I kept thinking they would be captured, setting up amazing plot points with Jamie, Danny, Jon, and of course Tyrion in the same room. Nope, they just swim away.

Why don't Danny her ppl look for Jamie and Bronn? Why are they basically allowed to leave?

This leads to the IMO very stupid plan of sneaking in Tyrion just to get a 5 min chat with Jamie. Again if he was captured we could have seen Tyrion beg for mercy for his brother, have Danny spare him BUT only if he goes back to Cersei with the terms of the truce.

OR needing that proof, Jamie becomes one of the men who go the East Watch to see first hand and to bring back to Cersei.

I like where the end up at the end of the episode, not how they got there.

Also dislike the Aryan v Sansa plotline, especially considering they just finally reunited after years and terrible horribles done to them and their families. I see some people saying they might be playing LF but I have a bad feeling they will go with the whole LF manipulates Sansa into being against Jon and Arya angle. Hope not. Especially when Bran is there and Sansa herself mentions he is not to be trusted.

Final 2 episodes have a lot to wrap up unless some of thie King's Landing stuff is going to bleed into next season. I thought they would wrap up the Danny invasion this season and have next year be all about the WWs.

You say that people who bring up pacing are just unhappy, but aren't you listing a pacing issue? Or at least one of bad writing. Not sure why people are annoyed with others being critical of the episode.
 
Who else remember this when Daenerys said the dragons were not beasts to her, but her children:

She-shackles-Rhaegal-Viserion-underground-where-cant-hurt-anyone.gif

This was a period where she was literally doing everything that was against what she wanted to do. She locked away her dragons even though she wanted them out, she opened the coliseum even though she felt it was immoral, she tried to be diplomatic with the people of marine by marrying hizdahr. This was a moment where she had an important character development as she realized her place wasn't in the east but in westeros.
 
I don't think there's any way the "Game of Thrones" portion of the story wraps up this season. Look at Cersei's reaction to the offer of an armistice. Even if they capture a wight, she is going to use it as an opportunity to get what she wants. Let Dany and her forces and the Northern forces fight the ww's and get ground down.

Obviously Jon and everyone won't ultimately lose, but I think at some point we're going to have a betrayal from Cersei of the armistice, or maybe even an agreement to commit troops. The ww's are going to achieve some sort of massive victory, and maybe Cersei's madness to only act in her own interest will ultimately cost her power as the ww's hit King's Landing and she is killed, alone, clinging to irrelevant power. Maybe after that point in the story Jon, Dany, and the rest of Westeros are able to push back and save the day.

As for Jaime, I think he'll want to fight for his unborn child's future, and he's a knight, so I think he'll want to fight the ww's (if they actually capture a wight and prove it), and part with Cersei who wants to watch her enemies get overrun over it.

I fear like this is a logical point from a show running standpoint to axe Thoros and Beric. :(
 

Ernest

Banned
Anyone else believe when all is said and done the white walkers will win?

End of Season 8 you see a white walker Jon take the Iron throne, I'm expecting a bitter ending.
No, because GRRM has gone on record to say that it's going to have a happy, if bittersweet, ending.
 
No, because GRRM has gone on record to say that it's going to have a happy, if bittersweet, ending.

Honestly, having a bad ending would absolutely suck. All this for just a "walking dead" ending? The zombies win! That would absolutely kill this show for me.
 

Ushay

Member
Best part was Jon and Drogon, that dragon knows who the rightful heir to the Iron Throne is.

This scene was amazing, the look Drogon gave Jon was great. I can't believe Dany didn't catch on even slightly.

I dont think anyone, other than Dany, has touched any of the dragons so far?

For some reason I feel like the show could really have benefit from more episodes to flesh out these character arcs. But it's still been an excellent season, so many plot threads coming together.
 

Volimar

Member
This scene was amazing, the look Drogon gave Jon was great. I can't believe Dany didn't catch on even slightly.

I dont think anyone, other than Dany, has touched any of the dragons so far?

Tyrion. And one or two of the dothraki slave girls when they were still babies.
 
Totally missed The Hound. The guy was trained as a knight by the house Clegane, is a skilled swordsman and jouster, perhaps one of if not the most competent still alive.

Even if he doesn't identify himself as one in spirit, he is no barbarian.

He is a very skilled fighter and I think if it wasn't for that leg injury, he'd still be number 1.
 
This scene was amazing, the look Drogon gave Jon was great. I can't believe Dany didn't catch on even slightly.

I dont think anyone, other than Dany, has touched any of the dragons so far?

The scene was terrible precisely because Jon acted like he was petting a very aggressive dog

Dany sees this conveniently as she comes home and then They both just brush off that he touched the dragon and talk about something else

Was really hoping for that scene to be a bigger deal
 

spock

Member
Speaking on Cersei and her pregnancy, what if
she's not pregnant, and is just trying to keep Jaime around because he's starting to realize she's insane
?

This or its going to end up being some "creation" ala the mountain or who knows, involving the undead, etc. The whole thing is sketch for sure.
 
Totally missed The Hound. The guy was trained as a knight by the house Clegane, is a skilled swordsman and jouster, perhaps one of if not the most competent still alive.

Even if he doesn't identify himself as one in spirit, he is no barbarian.

He has spent the previous 2+ seasons hacking shit with an axe. He has multiclassed at this point.

Knights wear armor. None of them had armor on. There are no Knights in the group. /hotpielogic

You can still have armor under all the furr.

09-roll-safe.w710.h473.jpg
 

HvySky

Member
Speaking on Cersei and her pregnancy, what if
she's not pregnant, and is just trying to keep Jaime around because he's starting to realize she's insane
?

This is immediately what I assumed. Jaime is way too easily swayed back to the dark side if he has something to fight for.

Like I said he show doesn't have to off them this season. There is no rigid template that says you can only have one conflict in the final season.

Oh, I know. I just think it'd be strange and anticlimactic if after six or seven seasons of buildup, the Night King and his army of the undead aren't the ultimate antagonistic force of the show. Cersei is spinning her wheels at this point and on borrowed time. With only eight episodes left in the series, they need to give the White Walkers their due.

If the entire season is devoted to the walkers, will they get more development? Their goals, maybe even getting to know more characters? They've got to have weapons, dragon counters/equals, and maybe even allies.

This I'm not sure of. I'm curious if we'll get more insight into the Night King beyond being the Walkers' history with the Children of the Forest.
 

effzee

Member
You say that people who bring up pacing are just unhappy, but aren't you listing a pacing issue? Or at least one of bad writing. Not sure why people are annoyed with others being critical of the episode.

No, I am bringing up an issue which is not pacing related. It is more about how the story unfolded.

My version, or what I thought would have and should have happened, would get you to the same end goal but would have felt more natural.

Either way, while there are people here complaining week in and week out about pacing or poor writing, I am not. I only see a change in the speed of events but maintain that the writing and show itself is top notch. Just this particular episode didn't do it for me. Again the last 2 can be amazing and this episode will just be known as a great set up for them.

I get not liking certain things, changes from the books, or the pacing even if you are talking about a particular episode or 2. To claim things like the show runners don't care anymore, it's fan fiction (when GRRM has given them the plot outlines and still consults with them), or point out traveling each episode is tiresome.

I think the point is, yes in season's past you would wait 4,5,6 or even a whole season between characters getting somewhere but you also had examples of people showing up to their next point quickly. You had character and plot build up either way. Its not a rule that you can only have a good plot or character building if you slow everything down. T

That being said, the board has shrunk and the # of characters and side stories has been reduced to the 2 main end points - Iron Throne and the White Walkers. We don't need as many character building monologues or travel montages because we know these remaining characters inside and out. At least that is my opinion.
 
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