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[Crispy75]

Why did he run away from Ramsay in a straight line like that? It's like he wanted to get hit. I think anyone irl would have been savvy enough to dodge.

Because (despite the actor's rocket-fuelled ascent into puberty) he's just a child. He's scared out of his skull and can see his long-lost brother across the field. There's only one thing on his mind.

But I still find it weird why Sansa wouldn't just tell Jonno that she had an army coming. Communication would have helped there, maybe they'll explain that in the next episode.

My head canon is that if Jon knew about them, he'd have included them in the starting lineup, allowing Ramsay to plan a counter strategy. By keeping it a secret, they could maintain the element of surprise.

However, We should have learned our lesson with the Arya gut wound bullshit, so I doubt there's any sort of clever reason, nor will there be any consequence.

 

[Einchy]

Because (despite the actor's rocket-fuelled ascent into puberty) he's just a child. He's scared out of his skull and can see his long-lost brother across the field. There's only one thing on his mind.

I guess they couldn't recast him because he was only going to show up for these 2 scenes but I REALLY wish they had recast him. Rickon looked a good 19-ish here when he's probably supposed to be 10 or so.

 

[Heshinsi]

So is this a book thing? Suddenly the dizzyingly great leap in logic that Sansa doesn't care about Jon begins to come into focus. Are we once again being inundated with "theories" that make little sense unless you're a book reader trying to "call it" in the no spoiler thread? I had hoped we'd be done with that by now.

It's not that she doesn't care for Jon, it's that she doesn't trust him fully. Otherwise why lie about how she learned of the Blackfish's survival and retaking of Riverland? Again why would she withhold the information in regards to the Knight's of the Vale? Even if you were to accept that she wasn't entirely convinced LF would show up (which I personally do not believe due to what LF told her when they met), that's still information that could help Jon.

I've also seen people say that perhaps she didn't want Jon to get the Knight's of the Vale caught up in his war plans, that she clearly felt were destined to failure. Which again goes to show that she wasn't entirely convinced that Jon was doing the right thing. Also, the fact that she rides in alongside LF tells me that she:

a) was certain that the Knight's of the Vale were coming (which would explain her "you will die tomorrow Lord Bolton" remarks to Ramsay).
b) was in some form of communication with LF. When LF and Sansa last spoke in person, it was near the wall. How would LF know to ride to Winterfell at haste, and how would Sansa know where to meet up with him.

If the above is true, then sitting on that information while knowing as she says that "Ramsay is the one who lies the traps," is pretty freaking weird isn't it? What other reason but to not hurt her chances at victory would compel her to let Jon go headlong into a doomed situation? Remember, Sansa is quite adamant that Rickon will die, and he does. She is also absolutely sure that Jon is being baited into a trap, which is exactly what happens. So why would she keep mum that help is on the way? Even if we accept that she may have not known whether LF would arrive, there's still a maybe chance that he does. Why keep that information a secret?

 

[Timbuktu]

I've asked this before but don't remember anyone answering it. Why don't the White Walkers ever try to go around the wall via the sea? Is there magic along the coast as well? Since I first looked at the map, I thought they could easily float down south on an ice berg.

 

[Einchy]

I've asked this before but don't remember anyone answering it. Why don't the White Walkers ever try to go around the wall via the sea? Is there magic along the coast as well? Since I first looked at the map, I thought they could easily float down south on an ice berg.

They've never explained it but they seem to have a thing against water.

 

[soundscream]

I guess they couldn't recast him because he was only going to show up for these 2 scenes but I REALLY wish they had recast him. Rickon looked a good 19-ish here when he's probably supposed to be 10 or so.

19......no way 15-16 tops.

 

[Einchy]

Rickon looks like he was about to take his 18 year old daughter to college and was worried the young men were gonna hit on her.

 

[soundscream]

Rickon looks like he was about to take his 18 year old daughter to college and was worried the young men were gonna hit on her.

He's 14
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3280686/

You better ID anyone you try to hook up with because your age perception is trash.

 

[Einchy]

Rickon couldn't zig zag cus he has bad knees from being old as fuck.

 

[The Silver]

Man, why did Rickon even exist, the forgotten Stark.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I hope that Joffrey was secretly revived off-screen and that he comes back to rule in the end.

Agreed.

 

[Lothar]

Man, why did Rickon even exist, the forgotten Stark.

Do you remember the name of Rickon's wolf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

 

[T-Rex.]

I thought Rickon was going to end up taking the mantle of King in the North eventually. Well, up until this season where he got handed over to Ramsay. It was obviously gg then.

 

[pringles]

Since we're ranking I'd probably do:

1. S4/S6
2.S3
3.S2
4.S1

Now season 5 is a weird one cus the first bit of the season is probably below season 1 but the later half is up there with season 3.

I would agree but put S4 slightly above S6 (unless the finale is EP9 quality), and S5 in between S2 and S1.

Upon the many rewatches I've had of the show, S1 is always the one I just want to get out of the way. That doesn't mean it's bad, just that it's a little dull these days after the way the show has increased in size and scope and the way characters have developed.

If the above is true, then sitting on that information while knowing as she says that "Ramsay is the one who lies the traps," is pretty freaking weird isn't it? What other reason but to not hurt her chances at victory would compel her to let Jon go headlong into a doomed situation? Remember, Sansa is quite adamant that Rickon will die, and he does. She is also absolutely sure that Jon is being baited into a trap, which is exactly what happens. So why would she keep mum that help is on the way? Even if we accept that she may have not known whether LF would arrive, there's still a maybe chance that he does. Why keep that information a secret?

Because she is smart? It's what won the battle. She tried to get Jon to think, listen to her and not fall into Ramsay's traps. But she's finally learning to not trust anyone but herself really. Give away the Littlefinger army to Jon and you risk him foolishly adjusting his strategy which would ruin the element of surprise.
I also think she may not have been entirely sure she could trust Littlefinger. He was the one who sent her to Ramsay in the first place. It was something of a gamble and I doubt Jon would have been too happy with her if she told him about it.

Man, why did Rickon even exist, the forgotten Stark.

Seemed obvious from day 1 that Rickon was not going to play much of a part in the show. They did very little to give him any kind of character development. He was only there to serve as motivation for Jon. If the actor looked the same age the character is supposed to be, I imagine there would be a lot less complaints about him not "zigzaging", it would also be a lot more horrible to watch that scene.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I think Sansa wants every Stark but herself dead. Maybe she hoped Jon would die in the battle and she only came forward with the Knights after she thought that had happened.

Her position on Rickon was also weird. I definitely get the vibe she wants to be the last remaining Stark and rebuild the house in her, more darker/ruthless image.

 

[Einchy]

Been watching season 1 and the best word to describe it is "quint". It's nuts how many scenes are just small character scenes that don't move the plot or plots involving Sansa being a shitty person to her family. We hated Sansa cus she was whiny but now we hate characters because they take over Winterfell and feed babies to dogs, everything got dialed up to 11 once Ned died.

 

[pringles]

Her position on Rickon was also weird.

No it wasn't, everyone who has watched the show knew Rickon was a dead man. Sansa actually lived with Ramsay, she knew there was no way to rescue him. It's not about not caring, it's about not falling into a trap out of the foolish belief that he can be saved. Which Jon did.

 

[Einchy]

I think Sansa wants every Stark but herself dead. Maybe she hoped Jon would die in the battle and she only came forward with the Knights after she thought that had happened.

Her position on Rickon was also weird. I definitely get the vibe she wants to be the last remaining Stark and rebuild the house in her, more darker/ruthless image.

I think it's just because, like she said, she knows Ramsay and she knows there's no way he is letting Rickon escape. It's not something she wants to happen but she has just come to peace with it, no reason in trying to rescue him and getting yourself killed along the way, which Is advice Jon doesn't listen to and almost dies because of it.

 

[Monocle]

I think Sansa wants every Stark but herself dead. Maybe she hoped Jon would die in the battle and she only came forward with the Knights after she thought that had happened.

Her position on Rickon was also weird. I definitely get the vibe she wants to be the last remaining Stark and rebuild the house in her, more darker/ruthless image.

I don't see that at all. The root of her trauma is the awful things that befell her family (including herself). I strongly doubt she'd be glad to have Jon or especially Arya gone.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Very fair points but I do still feel she has a goal in mind and sees herself and Jon as the only two Starks left.

I'm pretty sure she's given Arya up for dead, same with Bran.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

YAY new thread \o/

inching closer to that finale, guys ^___^

so excite~

 

[Crispy75]

YAY new thread \o/

inching closer to that finale, guys ^___^

so excite~

Innit

The writing might not be quite what it was, but I am so so glad that this story has a ending plotted out well in advance, that all events are now moving towards. So many great shows are ruined by endings where plot lines fizzle out or do abrupt 180s in the last couple of episodes. BSG, Lost I'm looking at you.

GOT is going to end in a satisfying way and I can't wait.

 

[Banglish]

I can't be the only one more sad about the last giant dying than Rickon.

 

[Einchy]

Sansa has had one of the best character developments in the show and it's made even more apparent since I'm watching season 1 right now. She used to dislike Winterfell and all she wanted was to go off and marry Joffrey, she'd even throw her own sister under the bus for him. In the fifth episode she tells her nanny that she never wants to speak to her father ever again and brushes him off whe he brings her a doll as a present.

This is a person that didn't care about family or home but that person is completely gone, now shed risk her life and go to war just to reclaim her home. What she once scoffed at and ignore, has become the most important thing to her.

That's why I don't buy that Sansa wanted Jon dead, it'd go against everything she has learned since season 1.

[edit]

It'd be like if Tommen stopped being a piece of shit, you can't make characters go against their nature without a good reason.

 

[Dragon1893]

I think it's just because, like she said, she knows Ramsay and she knows there's no way he is letting Rickon escape. It's not something she wants to happen but she has just come to peace with it, no reason in trying to rescue him and getting yourself killed along the way, which Is advice Jon doesn't listen to and almost dies because of it.

Pretty much.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I can't be the only one more sad about the last giant dying than Rickon.

Sad he was sent to die without a weapon, and the Bolton army didn't even react to seeing a fucking giant.

 

[wesleyshark]

I think it's just because, like she said, she knows Ramsay and she knows there's no way he is letting Rickon escape. It's not something she wants to happen but she has just come to peace with it, no reason in trying to rescue him and getting yourself killed along the way, which Is advice Jon doesn't listen to and almost dies because of it.

Nailed it.

 

[Acerac]

Not amazed that that was the episode to push to a new thread. This show has been on fire, I can't wait to see what is happening next episode.

 

[Cindres]

Sad he was sent to die without a weapon, and the Bolton army didn't even react to seeing a fucking giant.

I was surprised he didn't have like a big log or something, feel like he should be able to just swing at them with a pretty fucking large stick and do some damage.

 

[Banglish]

Sad he was sent to die without a weapon, and the Bolton army didn't even react to seeing a fucking giant.

Right?! But I guess he would've been too OP then. Would've been cool to see him with some gauntlets hulk-smashing infantry.

 

[Dragon1893]

I was surprised he didn't have like a big log or something, feel like he should be able to just swing at them with a pretty fucking large stick and do some damage.

Yeah, that was really stupid, felt like the writers just decided to throw in a handicap because otherwise the giant would've been able to break through the siege.
As for his death, it was one last reminder of why we hated Ramsay so much. Fuck that guy.

Edit: holy shit there's some hilarious stuff on the net about this episode.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

WE WILL REMEMBER WUN WUN

WUNWUN WON OUR HEARTS

 

[neorej]

I can't be the only one more sad about the last giant dying than Rickon.

I was more sad about Tormund getting wounded than Wun Wun or Rickon dying. Tormund is awesome, he deserves his own spin-off show. "Tormund The Wildling"

 

[Dinda]

For everyone thinking about Sansa's motivation to not tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale. My take on it is the following.

Sansa knows Jon very well, but she thinks the risk of telling him is still to high, because he would have to absolutely not tell anyone, which she isn't 100% sure he would agree upon.
Not only would Jon have to not tell anyone, he also would have to start the battle before the Vale knights arrive and basically sent most of his men to die as if he didn't know reinforcements are coming.
And here we are at the start again, Sansa knows Jon, she knows that he would never be able to give up on Rickon and probably would also not sent most his men to certain death.

Now you might say the same thing Jon would have probably demanded, wait for the knights of the vale and have an more even fight with Ramsey, sounds like the most reasonable thing to do right?
No. The element of surprise is the only thing winning the battle for the Starks. For one Ramsey could otherwise adjust his tactics, and it would maybe be a 50/50 who would win, but the way more likely and problematic outcome is the following:
This isn't some battle in the middle of nowhere, this is the battle of Winterfell. The only reason this battle is even talking place on this battlefield is that Ramsey knows that there is no way he would lose it. But if the Knights of Vale would also be there, why would he still fight that battle? He would never fight a fight with an uncertain winner, he would just take his forces back into Winterfell and let them try their luck with a siege wich they would have no chance of winning.

That is why Sansa can take absolutely no chances in telling anyone about the reinforcements, the risk is just to high. This information gets to Ramsey, it's over. And Jon is just to much of good guy as that she could be sure that he would accept that.

She also has no interest in Jon dying, that i'm sure about. Does she put him at a great risk and gamble with his life. Absolutely, but that are the stakes she has to take.

 

[Crispy75]

That makes perfect strategic sense.

I just hope it gets some explanation in-show.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Why didn't Ramsey just hole up in the castle and make John siege in the first place?

 

[Dinda]

Why didn't Ramsey just hole up in the castle and make John siege in the first place?

Same reason he fought Stannis that way, he was sure to win it.

 

[Elandyll]

For everyone thinking about Sansa's motivation to not tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale. My take on it is the following.

Sansa knows Jon very well, but she thinks the risk of telling him is still to high, because he would have to absolutely not tell anyone, which she isn't 100% sure he would agree upon.
Not only would Jon have to not tell anyone, he also would have to start the battle before the Vale knights arrive and basically sent most of his men to die as if he didn't know reinforcements are coming.
And here we are at the start again, Sansa knows Jon, she knows that he would never be able to give up on Rickon and probably would also not sent most his men to certain death.

Now you might say the same thing Jon would have probably demanded, wait for the knights of the vale and have an more even fight with Ramsey, sounds like the most reasonable thing to do right?
No. The element of surprise is the only thing winning the battle for the Starks. For one Ramsey could otherwise adjust his tactics, and it would maybe be a 50/50 who would win, but the way more likely and problematic outcome is the following:
This isn't some battle in the middle of nowhere, this is the battle of Winterfell. The only reason this battle is even talking place on this battlefield is that Ramsey knows that there is no way he would lose it. But if the Knights of Vale would also be there, why would he still fight that battle? He would never fight a fight with an uncertain winner, he would just take his forces back into Winterfell and let them try their luck with a siege wich they would have no chance of winning.

That is why Sansa can take absolutely no chances in telling anyone about the reinforcements, the risk is just to high. This information gets to Ramsey, it's over. And Jon is just to much of good guy as that she could be sure that he would accept that.

She also has no interest in Jon dying, that i'm sure about. Does she put him at a great risk and gamble with his life. Absolutely, but that are the stakes she has to take.

Nope.

Sansa telling Jon would just mean he would open the battle, and LF's men would arrive right after in a flanking move.

As it is, they started the battle 3:1 and ended at under 2:1.
With a force of mounted lances as huge as the Vale, they would have plowed through Ramsey's men, easily.

The -only- thing she made sure of by withholding informations is 2 things:

- Ensuring minimal loss of life for the Vale knights
- Ensuring maximum loss of life for the Wildling and allied army, with a strong possibility of her Brother dying in the process

Her being afraid of Jon "blabbing around" is such a BS excuse...

 

[Moff]

Why didn't Ramsey just hole up in the castle and make John siege in the first place?

Davos answered that question
he sad Ramsey's is a reign of terror and if he would hole up in winterfell people would think he is weak and no longer fear him

 

[Langdon Alger]

Davos answered that question
he sad Ramsey's is a reign of terror and if he would hole up in winterfell people would think he is weak and no longer fear him

Oh, right. I forgot about that.

 

[CrossTrigger]

Nope.

Sansa telling Jon would just mean he would open the battle, and LF's men would arrive right after in a flanking move.

As it is, they started the battle 3:1 and ended at under 2:1.
With a force of mounted lances as huge as the Vale, they would have plowed through Ramsey's men, easily.

The -only- thing she made sure of by withholding informations is 2 things:

- Ensuring minimal loss of life for the Vale knights
- Ensuring maximum loss of life for the Wildling and allied army, with a strong possibility of her Brother dying in the process

Her being afraid of Jon "blabbing around" is such a BS excuse...

Is it not entirely possible that Sansa didn't receive a confirmation from Little finger and he showed up at the camp too late? I mean it's not like they have cell phones in Winterfell.

 

[ClivePwned]

I'm sure we will see Jon and Sansa discuss Littlefinger's arrival next ep. Everyone will agree it was for the best and Arya will turn up for a happy ending

Spoiler

at Rickon's wake

.

 

[Dinda]

Nope.

Sansa telling Jon would just mean he would open the battle, and LF's men would arrive right after in a flanking move.

As it is, they started the battle 3:1 and ended at under 2:1.
With a force of mounted lances as huge as the Vale, they would have plowed through Ramsey's men, easily.

The -only- thing she made sure of by withholding informations is 2 things:

- Ensuring minimal loss of life for the Vale knights
- Ensuring maximum loss of life for the Wildling and allied army, with a strong possibility of her Brother dying in the process

Her being afraid of Jon "blabbing around" is such a BS excuse...

That's not how this works. How should they be able to come exactly at such a small time window at a specific time like in your plan without staying at the sidelines watching the battle, which they of course could not do since they would be seen that way. The only way something like this works is to know when the battle starts, which they knew, and stay as far away as they need to to that Ramseys people don't realize it. Than make sure that you ride there and arrive at a time the battle is in full motion. And hope they haven't all died till then.

Also if your plan would have to rely on some strategy made before the battle, your plan would have been basically ruined the moment Ramsey came out with Rickon. Every plan with movement of there troops etc they had before was ruined when Jon ran for Rickon. And it this case would probably also had affected the reinforcements.

 

[Rabid-Coot]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/andyneuenschwander/15-facts-about-the-battle-of-the-bastards?utm_term=.dlBX5wV4B#.boogGlB3Y

Some pretty cool stuff

9. They shot that face-beating scene for 10 hours.
Director Miguel Sapochnik wanted to shoot that scene from every angle possible, so they had Harington throwing punches for hours on end.

.

 

[RoninChaos]

Nope.

Sansa telling Jon would just mean he would open the battle, and LF's men would arrive right after in a flanking move.

As it is, they started the battle 3:1 and ended at under 2:1.
With a force of mounted lances as huge as the Vale, they would have plowed through Ramsey's men, easily.

The -only- thing she made sure of by withholding informations is 2 things:

- Ensuring minimal loss of life for the Vale knights
- Ensuring maximum loss of life for the Wildling and allied army, with a strong possibility of her Brother dying in the process

Her being afraid of Jon "blabbing around" is such a BS excuse...

Completely agree. She isn't smart. She's an asshole. And little fingers men weren't promised. Otherwise I think she would have told Jon. But the fact that she thought they would come and she rode with little finger after watching her brother die... Jesus. Same fuckinf Sansa from the first season. Still an asshole.

Yes, she knew Ramsay was nuts and super clever but she was asked point blank by Jon what to do and she said "I don't know. I'm not a soldier." That would have been the time to speak up.

 

[figadapaura]

Completely agree. She isn't smart. She's an asshole. And little fingers men weren't promised. Otherwise I think she would have told Jon. But the fact that she thought they would come and she rode with little finger after watching her brother die... Jesus. Same fuckinf Sansa from the first season. Still an asshole.

Yes, she knew Ramsay was nuts and super clever but she was asked point blank by Jon what to do and she said "I don't know. I'm not a soldier." That would have been the time to speak up.

Telling Jon that LF might be coming wouldn't have saved Rickon. Knowing how Ramsay works doesn't make her an asshole.

 

[Nameless]

Man the Cast of Kings podcast has really gone down the shitter this season. Real shame.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Man the Cast of Kings podcast has really gone down the shitter this season. Real shame.

The podcast with David Chen? I think it's as good as ever. I thought all of Joanna's criticisms of this episode were completely valid. I agreed with her 100%.

 

[Carbonox]

Only just caught on that Miguel Sapochnik did Hardhome as well. Guy's got a knack for this shit.

He's doing the finale too.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Not zig-zagging has to be done of the most inane complaints I've seen.

Just because a very scared young body doesn't sit at a keyboard, having watched bluray versions of Apocalypto and Prometheus and calmly plan out how he's going to run from a crazy psychopath he's been imprisoned under when half his family is dead, his carer is dead, his wolf is dead and the first family he's seen in years standing in front of him and he's told to just run (without looking back to see what the fuck Ramsay is doing and also bearing in mind he's missing most of his shots), what would any normal person do?

I'll tell you, they would just run in a straight line.