He also did the episode where Bad Pussy showed us her tits last season. The man has good taste.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT PART 2| Season 6 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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He also did the episode where Bad Pussy showed us her tits last season. The man has good taste.
Uhu. I'm not surprised if the post battle discussion between Jon and Sansa is something like
Jon: Wtf, why didn't you tell me about reinforcements from the Vale! Too many wildlings died needlessly because you held that information back!
Sansa: I'm the fucking ruler of winterfell, don't fucking question my decisions,
Jon: Wtf, why didn't you tell me about reinforcements from the Vale! Too many wildlings died needlessly because you held that information back!
Sansa: I'm the fucking ruler of winterfell, don't fucking question my decisions,
wesleyshark
Banned
Bingo
He is good people.
Jaquen's actor gave his interpretation as to why Arya was allowed to leave.
https://www.accesshollywood.com/art...om-wlaschiha-jaqens-reaction-aryas-departure/
https://www.accesshollywood.com/art...om-wlaschiha-jaqens-reaction-aryas-departure/
Langdon Alger
Banned
That sounds more like something that narcissistic lunatic Dany would say. Sansa doesn't seem too power hungry.
aye. to add. if you're zig-zagging you're assuming you need to do that because the shooter (he didn't even know how many bowmen were shooting at him) has perfect aim and zig-zagging would serve to counteract that.
If the person shooting arrows at you has bad aim (as could be assumed by the multiple arrows actually missing Rickon) - cutting down on "unprotected running time" via running directly towards Jon is actually the better idea.
Also, Sansa has been proven right. She told Jon not to do what Ramsey wanted him to do, he did exactly that. Her not trusting Jon not to 'stark it up' completely was a good choice that - while sacrificed the lives of many - saved the lives of every single person who didn't die during that battle. You think Ramsey would have taken any prisoners?
I completely agree. Also, Ramsey was toying with him missing his shots, giving him a false sense of hope that he wasn't a good shot and could make it. He sees Jon rushing on a horse and gambles on running straight to get there as fast as possible. The plan was also to lure Jon out, even with a zigzag, I guess Ramsey could wait for the moment where they get close to each other, the paths of Jon and Rickon would have to meet at some point in the run. Or Ramsey sees Rickon zigzag and makes all his archers shoot. I don't think it can compare to prometheus where it's a thing rolling, here you have a person that observes and can adjust accordingly.
Also, I don't get what the criticism is aimed at? Do people think it's a plot hole? Bad writing? Is it really that unbelievable that a kid would just run for his life straight ahead? The stupidity of Starks? It's seems like a knee-jerk reaction because people were thrown out of their suspension of disbelief.
Nameless
Member
Cast of Kings has always had a more negative bent, which is fine, but when you start to yadda yadda passed most of the episodes, ignoring bits that might color certain complaints differently to spend chunks of the podcast nitpicking it doesn't make for a good listen. Joanna constantly resorting to snarky reductive cracks at D&D every time there's something she doesn't like has been particularly disappointing. I like her, but she's been coming off as the typical butt-hurt book reader most of the season.
wesleyshark
Banned
It's a silly point of criticism for sure.
soundscream
Member
As great as that was I would have preferred he did the episode before that one, so maybe that sand snakes fight wouldn't have looked like a larping exhibition.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
The keyboard warriors are probably the most likely ones on GotGAF to run in a straight line.
soundscream
Member
Lets be honest, the majority would be out of breath after 10 seconds.
You still don't make any sense.
The battle was about to start anyway, and Jon had in this case no hope of backup.
Things could have been quite different had he known, and they could have coordinated at a specific time of day, and with relay scouts relaying the state of battle. You know, like any major battle counting on surprise reinforcements in history?
In fact, not knowing his situation wasn't as desperate as he thought might have compelled him not to make a desperate move.
But it's all semantics. The fact is that Sansa could have saved hundreds if not thousands of lives by making her move known, but she chose not to in spite of Jon clearly asking: "What should we wait for?"
Sansa was either Stupid, or Evil, and I hope it will be fully addressed next week in a Jon/ Sansa conversation. I know that if I was Tormund I wou ld want to take her head off once it is made clear that LF wasn't just passing by on a morning stroll and decided to give a hand.
If the 2500 Wildlings + Giant + misc of Jon had joined the 4000+ mounted lances would have trounced the 4000 soldiers + 2000 mounted lances of Ramsay.
Think about it... Wun Wun might still be alive.
Pagusas
Elden Member
If Ramsey had seen a more substantial force waiting for him, he would have just retreated to the castle and let them try to siege it, which he knew they couldn't. He's smart, remember his line when Jon was offering 1 on 1 combat, basically telling Jon to F' off as he knows his army will win easily, thus why he's not bothering holding up in the castle. You think he would still have done that had the other army been there?
The only way they had a chance was to make him fight and play to his over confidence. I dont subscribe to the theory Sansa was trying to get Jon killed, I do however believe she is willing to sacrifice pieces on the board to achieve her goals, that includes Jon (though her smile when she sees him alive makes me believe shes glad he lived).
I dont believe she knew Little Finger would show up either, I think she hoped, but didnt know.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Now i want to rewatch that episode. LOL
Vincent Alexander
Member
Nailed it. The actual act of withholding the information, putting her brother's life in jeopardy and those of his army, are what makes her an asshole. We're all putting way too much logic into her decisions and why she did it. What really matters is that she held back important information from Jon. Her brother. Who is fighting this battle for HER. And she repays him by treating him like a pawn on a chessboard.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
This season had two of the worst episodes in the series. If not rate it top two IMO.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Every seasons has had stinkers. Season 5 was my least favorite season but had (IMO) the best episode of GoT. I've given up on ranking seasons, I just rank episodes now.
Why? It sucked. What happened? Bad pussy.
wesleyshark
Banned
Dorne will be in the finale 👌
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
if we see dorne again i hope that weird woman (oberyn's ex) will stop being so dumb :x
He didn't see them coming anyway, which suggests he was holed up in WF waiting for Jon to arrive.
So logically you keep the Vale knights just out of sight, in the neighboring forest (you know, where Stannis died), and relay infos via courser/ scouts.
For the Nth time, it DOESN'T MATTER if she didn't know if he was coming because
1) she had no reason to doubt he would, he offered his help to start with
2) even with doubt, Jon would have waited 1 or 2 days with that info, which then would have given LF time to join forces and coordinate (he arrived within the next 12h).
Here is how I see a possible Jon/ Sanda discussion to go
- Sansa! What was that shit about?
- What do you mean?
- Did you know that Peter Baelish and a legion of Vale knights were on their way?
- ... He offered to help, Jon. A few weeks ago. I have many doubts about the man, I think he is capable of terrible things, but ... I decided to ask for his help with a crow. Your stubbornness left me no choice!
- MY stubbornness? NO CHOICE? Do you realize what you did by not telling me? Do you realize how many men died that might have LIVED?
- I DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WOULD EVEN COME!
- BUT HE DID! Sansa! Every decision I have made on that battlefield were with the conviction that we were alone. That it was IT! I KNEW I was going to die. I had no hope for myself, but DAMN IT Sansa I was going to take down that Ramsay asshole by any means necessary before I would go down, leaving whomever would be left, YOU, a chance at winning in the end.
- You LiVED! We won!
- YES! but can't you see how many lives would have been spared? Not counting the odd chance at having Ramsay's men desert a now very difficult battlefield, that many mounted lances would have spared so many lives on our side. LIVES WE WILL NEED WHEN FIGHTING THE WHITE WALKERS, men who were fighting for us, trusting us.
- You know what Jon, to tell the teuth, I do not trust your so called wildlings! What if most of them made it through? What then? They are our ancestral ennemies! Savages!
<...Stunned silence from Jon>
- They would ransack and pillage the North given the chance, so I made a call. I am the Stark heir, not You. I am warden of the North, in charge of protecting its people.
- Please tell me you do not believe this Sansa. We need to trust each other, you need to trust me. They have the same ennemy we do, the walkers. And they may be wildlings, but they have honor. They fought for us, for Winterfell. They died... so the Starks could have their banner floating on a fucking piece of rock again!
- They died because they folowed you in battle, and you tried to save Rickon foolishly, in spite of my warnings.
- This "foolish" attempt was to save our brother, Sansa. My god, when did you become so cold? So heartless?
- Maybe it was always me. But Ramsay made sure that whatever felt compassion in me would die first. This being said, I knew Ramsay far better than you ever will. Rickon was dead the moment the Umbers gave him to that inhuman piece of shit. Dying with an arrow, trust me Jon, is the very least of things that could have happened to Rickon.
- TRUST YOU? You certainly didn't trust ME, Sansa, not my "wildling army" either.
I could have died on that battlefield, and would now be in one of the mounds of corpses burning outside of Winterfell.
How good would your little calculations make you feel, having possibly caused or facilitated the death of two of your brothers? We Starks have fucking enough ennemies without keeping secrets from each other, and acting like Lanisters!
What kind of a Warden do you want to be, Sansa? I look at you, and right now I don't see a Stark. I see fucking Cercei Lanister!
... Jon storms out
<Silence>
- I want to be the kind of Stark that survives, Jon.
<A single tear rolls on her cheek, she wipes it off, then a resolute face, and turns around.>
Fox Mulder
Member
I don't. There's more interesting things going on to waste time on dorne shit.
I think she's working towards it.
TheRagnCajun
Member
I'm also on team zigzag, but it doesn't really matter in the end. Ramsey's trap still would have worked and Rickton still could have died 100 other ways in that fight.
wesleyshark
Banned
Even if he had zigzagged, Ramsay still would have killed him. It was easier and more dramatic just having him run for his life, not to mention save show time to spend on the actual battle.
I don't know, I think I'm team Sansa on this one. Jon Snow proved once again he is an idiot and a bad strategist. If Sansa had told Jon about LF, Jon would have incorporated the Vale army into his dumb battle plans. It is also extremely likely that LF was going to wait out the battle until the very end no matter what.
3) In the time spent waiting, Bolton Scouts notice the Knights of the Vale. Not wanting a fair fight, Ramsay goes and sits in his castle with his army. Siege begins, winter comes, Jon loses.
You'd think this season was absolute shite listening to them.
Theorycrafting not supported by events in the show,-and- certainly not part of Sansa's reasoning.
4) WunWun assaults door while protected, Vale Knights charge in, Tormund and Jon find Ramsay, assaults end with minimal amount of losses.
? My point IS supported by events in the show.
Ramsay obviously didn't have any scouts, and Sansa never indicated she had the military tactician mind to think about this, and WunWun knew that when the time would come taking the door down would come to him
So.... yeah. Talking about brutal takedown... look into a mirror.
Ps: I'm done on the subject. I still haven't seen even 1 compelling argument as to why Sansa should have withheld the information.
Next week's discussion (hopefully adressing this) will hopefully clarify what her position is, because the way I see it right now, it's either stupidity or greed. Or both.
Thank you for the brutal takedown of your own nonsense.
wesleyshark
Banned
Was about to say something similar lol
Who knows what kind of siege defense Ramsay would've had, if he had to sit in Winterfell. So we'll never know how that would've turned out if he saw the Vale coming (or saw them with Jon, had Jon waited a few more days).
Rickon could've been paraded around WF, "let go" then killed anyway.
Rickon could've been paraded around WF, "let go" then killed anyway.
Nameless
Member
Jon Snow's blunder had nothing to do with strategy. It was a purely emotional decision to save, as far as he knows, his last living brother. I really wish I could access GAF in an alternate universe where Jon just sat there and did nothing while his baby brother was executed as no doubt there would be even more blowback.
wesleyshark
Banned
Exactly.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Roose even told Ramsay not to get ahead of himself because he won 1 battle. Ramsay ignored him and then stabbed him.
Umbers just wanted to kill Wildlings so he didn't give a crap what strategy they were going to do.
So, the foretelling of Ramsay's tatics was layed out in front of us. If it were roose, the fight would have went differently and jon would have lost.
Also, Re-watching "The Gift"
Meli prophecy was interesting. Her confidence was so high. Ffwd to the last episode, even with the WIN, she still isn't sure of herself. I applaud all of the actors. My goodness. Love this show so much.
Umbers just wanted to kill Wildlings so he didn't give a crap what strategy they were going to do.
So, the foretelling of Ramsay's tatics was layed out in front of us. If it were roose, the fight would have went differently and jon would have lost.
Also, Re-watching "The Gift"
Meli prophecy was interesting. Her confidence was so high. Ffwd to the last episode, even with the WIN, she still isn't sure of herself. I applaud all of the actors. My goodness. Love this show so much.LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Considering they say you can defend Winterfell with 500 while He 12 times that amount, it would not have went well for Jon & Littlefinger.
Neospartan
Neo Member
- Theon, S2E07
The second that Ramsay falls back to the castle, with a respectable amount of soldiers there, the Starks lose. Could you imagine the slaughter that Ramsay's archers would cause had they been all at the walls? Just a few took down Wun Wun at the last second. Wun wun, their only siege engine.
If Sansa told Jon about the Knights of the Vale, whatever Jon could come up with would cause Ramsay to fall back, with forces, to the castle. Ramsay was a dick, but he was not stupid. He would have known he had no chance on open battle, and he would have known that staying inside Winterfell would render the Vale's army moot.
A last minute sweep was the only way this battle could be won. Don't know if Sansa knew this was the only option, but had she done anything different either the result would be the same (bunch of Wildlings dead) or they would have lost.
Nameless
Member
Roose even told Ramsay not to get ahead of himself because he won 1 battle. Ramsay ignored him and then stabbed him.
Umbers just wanted to kill Wildlings so he didn't give a crap what strategy they were going to do.
So, the foretelling of Ramsay's tatics was layed out in front of us. If it were roose, the fight would have went differently and jon would have lost.
Also, Re-watching "The Gift"
Idk, they pretty blatantly cut to her smirking on the battlements as the Bolton banners were being torn down as per her prophecy. Hopefully this is how she gets her groove back.
Hate that it looks like they're going to make me choose between Mel and Davos though.
Honestly I imagine if Ramsay saw him attempting to do that, or thought in anyway that Rickon would actually survive, he would have ordered a full volley of arrows to just take him and Jon out as they got close together.
There's really probably no scenario in which Rickon would survive.
victreeb3l
Member
Cant be mad at Rickon. Poor kid was destined to die as soon as the Umbers brought him over to Ramsay. I was actually expecting one of those burning flayed men during the battle to be Rickons body.
Littlefinger probably just collected her from their camp before heading to the battle. The why question will hopefully be answered next episode.
Honestly Sansa probably just didn't tell Jon because she doesn't know how much she can, or should, trust Little Finger. So she probably doesn't know how much her brother, and army, should trust him either. There wasn't much room to gamble in this scenario, so she ultimately took it into her own hands.
I think it was much more an emotional decision on her part than anything calculative.
I think it was much more an emotional decision on her part than anything calculative.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Kit has really evolved in this season. His acting was on point for the character he is potraying. Fucking awesome.
It was definitely an emotional decision, seeing the look on her face as he tells her time after time that no more troops are coming. She's straining against wanting to tell him.
I'm honestly still not a fan of either Jon or Dany as characters. They've never been near the best characters on the show to me and it's kind disappointing that they have such a big focus now. Also doesn't help that Emilia Clarke's acting boils down to having a smug face and saying every line as dramatically as possible.
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