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[Herla]

He was there - in that final scene he runs off and Osha tells him to stay put.. but Bran says it's okay since the Wolves will look out for him.

Rickon is probably going to be the "device" to make the lack of onscreen direwolves plausible.
"We're out of money, let's send Rickon somewhere"

 

[Future PhaZe]

I agree that Cersei, Catelyn and Robb aren't mirror images of their portrayal in the books, but of the three, Robb is the only one that's a bit underdeveloped in the show. We're pretty clear by the time we're halfway through season one as to who Cat and Cersei are and how they got to be that way. Robb basically has nothing to do in the show for the first half of the season and just kind of pops up out of nowhere when Eddard is taken captive and starts a war.

It's not really about development. It's more so about the way they were written being more appealing/interesting in general. Cersei is like an old witch...which just isn't as interesting as the hyper-sexualized bitch that George wrote.

Jon isn't really any different than any other random fantasy tale about some sword wielding guy. The depth of his character lies almost solely in his youth. It just isn't anywhere close to being the same if you take a 14 year old Jon Snow and Make him 20.

 

[Eidan]

It's not really about development. It's more so about the way they were written being more appealing/interesting in general. Cersei is like an old witch...which just isn't as interesting as the hyper-sexualized bitch that George wrote.

Sounds like this would be more to your liking.

 

[Azih]

Robb is the only one that's a bit underdeveloped in the show

That's pretty faithful to the books man. Of the Stark Kids only Rickon gets less love from George R.R. Martin.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Some funny caption screens from Sunday's episode:

Rickon is still here:

Robb and Roose:

Greywind is hungry for more fingers:

 

[Chatin]

Full series

Spoiler

I'm sure it's been discussed already but I fell behind on the thread this week. The final moments/lines of the crossbow scene, do we think they're setting her up to be the one who poisons him?

Or even worse

Spoiler

they have her kill Tywin instead of having Tyrion do it.

 

[DrForester]

The show should be reduced to just Tyrion, Jon, and Dany scenes.

ASOS

Spoiler

Much as I like Tyrion, I do hope he isn't in every episode this season. He isn't the main character, and much less so given the events this season. He really isn't meant to have much of a role this season.

 

[Randdalf]

Or even worse

Spoiler

they have her kill Tywin instead of having Tyrion do it.

I think that (ASOS)

Spoiler

the whole point of the crossbow is to emphasise its presence before Tyrion kills Tywin with it.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

It's not really about development.

You said that character development was poor on the show, and then pointed out that Cersei and Catelyn are different on the show than they are in the books. Those are two different things. I agree with you on the latter, but not the former.

That's pretty faithful to the books man. Of the Stark Kids only Rickon gets less love from George R.R. Martin.

For sure. We know more about Jon halfway through the first book than we really ever know about Robb.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Full series

Spoiler

I'm sure it's been discussed already but I fell behind on the thread this week. The final moments/lines of the crossbow scene, do we think they're setting her up to be the one who poisons him?

Well, [aSoS]

Spoiler

That wouldn't be TOO different than what happens. Although I hope they stick to having it be the Queen of Thorns who does the deed (which is what I believe happened in the books). In fact, the more she has to do in the show, the better, I think she's great.

Or even worse

Spoiler

they have her kill Tywin instead of having Tyrion do it.

Ugh, nooooo. I sure as hell hope not.

 

[Future PhaZe]

You said that character development was poor on the show, and then pointed out that Cersei and Catelyn are different on the show than they are in the books. Those are two different things. I agree with you on the latter, but not the former.

If I were to poll watchers of both shows, I'm sure more people would be shocked/saddened by the death of a Rick/Darryl/Glenn than many if not all of the characters in GoT the show, and that's not by accident.

 

[Obscured]

I caught up on the non-spoiler thread and then realized near the end as a book reader I wasn't going to be that welcome there, even if staying away from touchy spots, so I guess I'll come over here.

It has been a little bit since I've read everything so it has all merged a bit for me and I don't recall every specific detail so I'm going to be less pedantic than some.

As this season started I remembered some of the stuff that is upcoming and I'm curious how they are going to do it all. At some point I feel like they need to have multiple shows, especially in future seasons, I don't know how they are going to fit everything in. They could go that route for Feast of Crows and A Dance With Dragons since they take place at the same time.

I almost feel like they didn't do the battle at the fist of the fist men because 1) pacing for the season and 2) yes, budget that can be used elsewhere. Maybe after ending last season with a big battle they didn't want to just jump into another one (but they should show the carnage there when the wildlings come across it). But I can imagine from a tv perspective you don't want to get crazy right away, you want to build some tension.

So far I'm pretty happy with how the seasons have played out. I wish the

Spoiler

Reek stuff had happened because I think it makes Theon more interesting and tragic in terms of how he is pushed into things. Not doing it the way the books went also seems to have confused a lot of people about what went down at Winterfell.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

If I were to poll watchers of both shows, I'm sure more people would be shocked/saddened by the death of a Rick/Darryl/Glenn than many if not all of the characters in GoT the show, and that's not by accident.

Not sure why you feel compelled to draw comparisons between GoT and a completely unrelated show. But, for the sake of fun, I'll bite. I think you'd find that the average GoT viewer cares just as much about Tyrion, Jon and Daenerys as TWD viewers care about Rick, Darryl or Glenn.

 

[exYle]

If I were to poll watchers of both shows, I'm sure more people would be shocked/saddened by the death of a Rick/Darryl/Glenn than many if not all of the characters in GoT the show, and that's not by accident.

But those are the main characters and the fan favorites. Are you saying people wouldn't be just as shocked/saddened if Tyrion, Jon, or Dany died?

EDIT: heh, beaten by seconds.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I caught up on the non-spoiler thread and then realized near the end as a book reader I wasn't going to be that welcome there, even if staying away from touchy spots, so I guess I'll come over here.

It has been a little bit since I've read everything so it has all merged a bit for me and I don't recall every specific detail so I'm going to be less pedantic than some.

As this season started I remembered some of the stuff that is upcoming and I'm curious how they are going to do it all. At some point I feel like they need to have multiple shows, especially in future seasons, I don't know how they are going to fit everything in. They could go that route for Feast of Crows and A Dance With Dragons since they take place at the same time.

I almost feel like they didn't do the battle at the fist of the fist men because 1) pacing for the season and 2) yes, budget that can be used elsewhere. Maybe after ending last season with a big battle they didn't want to just jump into another one (but they should show the carnage there when the wildlings come across it). But I can imagine from a tv perspective you don't want to get crazy right away, you want to build some tension.

So far I'm pretty happy with how the seasons have played out. I wish the

Spoiler

Reek stuff had happened because I think it makes Theon more interesting and tragic in terms of how he is pushed into things. Not doing it the way the books went also seems to have confused a lot of people about what went down at Winterfell.

Will it ease your tensions to know that ASOS is going to be represented by Seasons 3 and 4 in the TV show?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

To the people wondering about Thoros singing the rains of castamere Tom of Seven strings sings in the book

I know that, and I'm okay with combining Thoros with Tom o Sevens, but what puzzled us was the choice of song, not that he was singing. That said...

I got the impression that Thoros was singing that so that any Lannister's out there would think they are allies and thus they'd have the jump on them.

^ I'm okay with that. lol.

Isn't it funny how the best scenes in each episode are often the ones most faithful to the books? Stick to the source material, geniuses. You're no GRRM, D&B.

So true. There are some exceptions, but whenever they try to arbitrarily "improve" on the books they usually fail hard.
I also don't think it's a coincidence that the best episodes so far, except maybe Baelor, were those written by GRRM.

most people seem to praise the show exclusive margaery scenes in the latest episode though.

I guess I'm the only one who didn't care that much for the added Margaery scenes. The actress is very good, but I felt they were very redundant. We already know Joff's a sadistic monster and we already know Margaery is a player. Seemed like filler to me. Eh, at least they were well acted.

ASOS

Spoiler

Tyrion's history and the circumstances involved have a lot more to do with it. Nothing you listed as "whitewashing" would make Tyrion killing Shae seem impossible. Far from it. And why do you think it wouldn't make sense for Tyrion to kill Shae if Shae is more sympathetic. Why would that matter?

Spoiler

Grey character (book-Tyrion) killing other grey character (book-Shae) in a fit of rage and despair = believable. Whitewashed sympathetic character (TV-Tyrion) killing other grey character (book-Shae) = already slightly less believable. Whitewashed sympathetic character (TV-Tyrion) killing other whitewashed sympathetic character (book-Shae) = huge heel turn and not believable.

If you don't get that, then I give up, I don't know how to make it less obvious. *shrugs*

I think that (ASOS)

Spoiler

the whole point of the crossbow is to emphasise its presence before Tyrion kills Tywin with it.

Maybe, but that will only happen [ASoS]

Spoiler

in late S4, seems kinda premature. I bet most viewers will have forgotten about that crossbow next year. Eh, we'll see.

 

[RaidenZR]

Once this series is over, it will be fascinating to hear what George has to say about it, assuming he will ever talk candidly about the adaptation when given some space and time from its profitability and popularity. He seems okay with it in interviews, but that could just be the money and limelight placating him. I'd love to know what he really thinks.

 

[Obscured]

Will it ease your tensions to know that ASOS is going to be represented by Seasons 3 and 4 in the TV show?

Yeah, I knew that was the case (which as I mentioned it has been a while since I've read the books so I can't picture where that midpoint would be, I have an idea, but can't recall if that event is mid-book or not), but it is more with the number of characters and how much is going on, how much can you fit into a single episode and you only have 10 of those.

But I do like that they are taking the time for the story and didn't just decide they were going to try and shove every book into a season. In general I feel like they are doing 'right' by the books.

I guess I'm the only one who didn't care that much for the added Margaery scenes. The actress is very good, but I felt they were very redundant. We already know Joff's a sadistic monster and we already know Margaery is a player. Seemed like filler to me. Eh, at least they were well acted.

I felt like the Margaery scenes worked pretty well, you got more of a sense of here as a player. The Flea Bottom thing could be written off as some as being just kind-hearted. That coupled with the obvious manipulation going on with Joffery fleshes that out a bit more, in a way that the Sansa scene didn't.

Spoiler

Grey character (book-Tyrion) killing other grey character (book-Shae) in a fit of rage and despair = believable. Whitewashed sympathetic character (TV-Tyrion) killing other grey character (book-Shae) = already slightly less believable. Whitewashed sympathetic character (TV-Tyrion) killing other whitewashed sympathetic character (book-Shae) = huge heel turn and not believable.

If you don't get that, then I give up, I don't know how to make it less obvious. *shrugs*

Spoiler

I didn't have a problem with it per se, but I don't know quite how they get from where they are now in the show to where it goes in the book in a believable way (so I get you there). I don't know what those scenes served other than to give Tyrion a reason to tell Shae the threat Tywin made last episode and make Shae more sympathetic so it amps up the shock level later, but I don't see how it needs it, was shocking enough as it.

 

[DrForester]

Once this series is over, it will be fascinating to hear what George has to say about it, assuming he will ever talk candidly about the adaptation when given some space and time from its profitability and popularity. He seems okay with it in interviews, but that could just be the money and limelight placating him. I'd love to know what he really thinks.

Doesn't he have a lot of input in the show? Outside of writing scripts. I was under the impression he was more hands on, like JK Rowling was with Harry Potter, dropping hints to the writers about what to keep and what could be cut for upcoming events.

 

[Gen.Grievous]

Rickon is probably going to be the "device" to make the lack of onscreen direwolves plausible.
"We're out of money, let's send Rickon somewhere"

We've seen more of the dire wolves already than in the entire previous season.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

EDIT: heh, beaten by seconds.

Great minds think alike, no?

Once this series is over, it will be fascinating to hear what George has to say about it, assuming he will ever talk candidly about the adaptation when given some space and time from its profitability and popularity. He seems okay with it in interviews, but that could just be the money and limelight placating him. I'd love to know what he really thinks.

Well, he's not exactly an innocent bystander with regard to the show. I can't speak for him, but I know I'd be pretty thrilled overall if I were in his shoes. His stories have graduated from mere best-sellers to full blown Monday water cooler discussion thanks to the success of the show.

 

[Ark]

Doesn't he have a lot of input in the show? Outside of writing scripts. I was under the impression he was more hands on, like JK Rowling was with Harry Potter, dropping hints to the writers about what to keep and what could be cut for upcoming events.

He has a lot of experience with writing for TV does he not? So surely he understands and possible spearheads some of the adaptations.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Once this series is over, it will be fascinating to hear what George has to say about it, assuming he will ever talk candidly about the adaptation when given some space and time from its profitability and popularity. He seems okay with it in interviews, but that could just be the money and limelight placating him. I'd love to know what he really thinks.

Ditto. I'm sure he's okay with it because the adaptation could be a lot worse, and because for all its flaws it's still well cast and the sets are nice and so on, but I do wonder what he thinks of some of the arbitrary changes, especially those that are pretty much examples of what he has once referred to as bad writing in past interviews. Talisa is a good example of that. He once (before the show existed) commented how anachronistic some "medieval fantasy" could be, with sassy wenches and stableboys mouthing off to the king, when in fact they'd get their torns ripped out and so on. And then the showrunners put Talisa, a sassy wench who mouths off to the King and he falls in love with her... lmao.

Doesn't he have a lot of input in the show? Outside of writing scripts. I was under the impression he was more hands on, like JK Rowling was with Harry Potter, dropping hints to the writers about what to keep and what could be cut for upcoming events.

Nope, not even close to JK Rowling level. He acts as consultant, but D&D ultimately do whatever the hell they want.

 

[RaidenZR]

Doesn't he have a lot of input in the show? Outside of writing scripts. I was under the impression he was more hands on, like JK Rowling was with Harry Potter, dropping hints to the writers about what to keep and what could be cut for upcoming events.

Executive Producer (which could mean a lot of things in showbiz), Writer of one episode per season, does promotion/publicity, answers questions to the showrunners, and gives his input. He has no real control though and has gone on the record multiple times to say the Beniof and Weiss have created their own thing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Ditto. I'm sure he's okay with it because the adaptation could be a lot worse, and because for all its flaws it's still well cast and the sets are nice and so on, but I do wonder what he thinks of some of the arbitrary changes, especially those that are pretty much examples of what he has once referred to as bad writing in past interviews. Talisa is a good example of that. He once (before the show existed) commented how anachronistic some "medieval fantasy" could be, with sassy wenches and stableboys mouthing off to the king, when in fact they'd get their torns ripped out and so on. And then the showrunners put Talisa, a sassy wench who mouths off to the King and he falls in love with her... lmao.



Nope, not even close to JK Rowling level. He acts as consultant, but D&D ultimately do whatever the hell they want.

Do you have a source for that?

 

[HK-47]

The main problem with the show is that changes to characters and lack of interior monologue is really killing a lot of them.

They've done a wonderful job of creating a living, breathing world but the character development is just not good right now. A show about zombies is doing a better job of developing characters and making us care about them.
I
John Snow as a fourteen year old kid is so vastly more interesting and different than what comes across in the show. The way they are writing Margaery--that's how Cersei was supposed to be. They've turned her into an old woman. Jaime, Dany, Tyrion, Arya are perfect. Something about Catelyn and Robb are off, can't put my finger on it, but I could care less about them as they are portrayed in the show.

I think the lack of inner thought kills arya

 

[RaidenZR]

Ditto. I'm sure he's okay with it because the adaptation could be a lot worse, and because for all its flaws it's still well cast and the sets are nice and so on, but I do wonder what he thinks of some of the arbitrary changes, especially those that are pretty much examples of what he has once referred to as bad writing in past interviews. Talisa is a good example of that. He once (before the show existed) commented how anachronistic some "medieval fantasy" could be, with sassy wenches and stableboys mouthing off to the king, when in fact they'd get their torns ripped out and so on. And then the showrunners put Talisa, a sassy wench who mouths off to the King and he falls in love with her... lmao.



Nope, not even close to JK Rowling level. He acts as consultant, but D&D ultimately do whatever the hell they want.

I'm sure he's content that it's making him a millionaire and raised awareness for his published works. And that, yeah, it's probably going to be the best an adaptation it could be without previous precedent... but that doesn't mean he may or may not like a lot of the small decisions. [book series spoilers]

Spoiler

The Cat/Talisa scene in the last episode is really pushing it in terms of completely changing the deep down feelings of a main character. Stuff like that makes me wonder if DB Weiss and David Beniof might in fact know something that will pay off later in the story or not. It makes me feel radically different about Catelyn, and maybe that's the point, but it completely changes what he character is like in the book, where through inner monologue you are treated to much more frequent and deeper glimpses into her feelings. This shit would never come up in them at all based on what's written so far.

At your example: Regardless, Robb is not that type of king or person... and let's face it, brutal king or not, if someone like Oona Chaplin was mouthing off to someone in power, it'd be back to the bedchamber for private punishments. *ZING

 

[-griffy-]

Not sure why you feel compelled to draw comparisons between GoT and a completely unrelated show. But, for the sake of fun, I'll bite. I think you'd find that the average GoT viewer cares just as much about Tyrion, Jon and Daenerys as TWD viewers care about Rick, Darryl or Glenn.

Not only that, but where are the videos of people having complete meltdowns after character deaths on Walking Dead like you saw after Ned died in season 1?

 

[Obscured]

He has a lot of experience with writing for TV does he not? So surely he understands and possible spearheads some of the adaptations.

He got started writing on TV, Beauty and the Beast. He wrote GoT partly because he felt constrained by TV.

 

[Eidan]

Spoiler

Grey character (book-Tyrion) killing other grey character (book-Shae) in a fit of rage and despair = believable. Whitewashed sympathetic character (TV-Tyrion) killing other grey character (book-Shae) = already slightly less believable. Whitewashed sympathetic character (TV-Tyrion) killing other whitewashed sympathetic character (book-Shae) = huge heel turn and not believable.

If you don't get that, then I give up, I don't know how to make it less obvious. *shrugs*

I get what you're saying. I just think it's dumb.

ASOS

Spoiler

One sympathetic character killing another sympathetic character doesn't make the events "unbelievable". At all. Given that all Tyrion would have gone through, his killing Shae would STILL make sense, "whitewashing" and all. NONE of the changes that have happened to either character on the show would diminish the believably of the scene. If anything they would heighten the tragedy of it all. Which makes for good TV.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I think they could fix Arya by having her recite her list of names a bit more often. They showed that early in S2 after Yoren planted the idea in her head (because hey can't have her get her own ideas... ), and then dropped it completely. Meh.

Do you have a source for that?

http://entertainment.time.com/2011/04/18/grrm-interview-part-2-fantasy-and-history/

And that’s another of my pet peeves about fantasies. The bad authors adopt the class structures of the Middle Ages; where you had the royalty and then you had the nobility and you had the merchant class and then you have the peasants and so forth. But they don’t’ seem to realize what it actually meant. They have scenes where the spunky peasant girl tells off the pretty prince. The pretty prince would have raped the spunky peasant girl. He would have put her in the stocks and then had garbage thrown at her. You know.

Read more: http://entertainment.time.com/2011/04/18/grrm-interview-part-2-fantasy-and-history/#ixzz2Pzmv3pu6

My bad, this interview actually occurred very shortly before S1 started airing, apparently. I thought it was older than that. I could have sworn there was another, older interview where the example had the reversed genders, a sassy stableboy mouthing off a princess, but the point stands.

If you were asking for a source about GRRM's involvement, well, it's all over, really.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'm sure he's content that it's making him a millionaire and raised awareness for his published works. And that, yeah, it's probably going to be the best an adaptation it could be without previous precedent... but that doesn't mean he may or may not like a lot of the small decisions. [book series spoilers]

Spoiler

The Cat/Talisa scene in the last episode is really pushing it in terms of completely changing the deep down feelings of a main character. Stuff like that makes me wonder if DB Weiss and David Beniof might in fact know something that will pay off later in the story or not. It makes me feel radically different about Catelyn, and maybe that's the point, but it completely changes what he character is like in the book, where through inner monologue you are treated to much more frequent and deeper glimpses into her feelings. This shit would never come up in them at all based on what's written so far.

At your example: Regardless, Robb is not that type of king or person... and let's face it, brutal king or not, if someone like Oona Chaplin was mouthing off to someone in power, it'd be back to the bedchamber for private punishments. *ZING

No, Robb wouldn't be that kind of king, but it was an example of anachronistic and unbelievable characters, the kind of fantasy tropes and clichés that he dislikes.

And you're giving D&D way too much credit, I think. They didn't change Catelyn for a later pay-off because they know something, they changed her because they grossly misunderstood her (some interviews I've seen with them is just appalling at how far off the mark they are about characters) and/or thought they could improve on her. Same with Shae (completely different character, the only thing in common with book-Shae is that she's a whore hired by Tyrion), and Robb and Talissa. Oh boy they've twisted Robb so much he's not remotely recognizable as Ned Stark's son anymore.

 

[Pkaz01]

I know that, and I'm okay with combining Thoros with Tom o Sevens, but what puzzled us was the choice of song, not that he was singing.[/spoiler]

I miss wrote it what i was really saying was tom of seven strings sings the rains of castamere in the book so its not like the brotherhood are conpletely against the song and its not out of character for them to sing it

And i do agree with you on marg and her scenes with joffrey they just keep on repeating that she is good at playing the game and manipulating joffrey. I thought the crossbow scene wasnt needed

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I don't know why I bothered because I honestly don't care about this xD but I checked and he's not singing the Rains of Castamere when he encounters Arya. He sings some ballad about a fair maid, and then later he sings The Bear and the Maiden Fair with Hot Pie (lol). Did you mean that he sings it at some point later? I mean, he might, he sings a number of songs over time haha. [Edit 2: yes, he does sing it, along with a bunch of other songs, much later. I stand corrected and will stop talking about that. xD]

Edit: That reminds me... has the [ASoS]

Spoiler

Ghost of Hight Heart been cast? I don't think she has. I hope she wasn't cut. Her prophecies are very, very interesting. She predicts Balon Greyjoy's death, and Joffrey's poisoning from Sansa's hairnet, and Arya's dark turn, and even Catelyn's dead and undeath! But since they're cutting all the prophecy stuff, she's probably cut.

 

[RaidenZR]

No, Robb wouldn't be that kind of king, but it was an example of anachronistic and unbelievable characters, the kind of fantasy tropes and clichés that he dislikes.

And you're giving D&D way too much credit, I think. They didn't change Catelyn for a later pay-off because they know something, they changed her because they grossly misunderstood her (some interviews I've seen with them is just appalling at how far off the mark they are about characters) and/or thought they could improve on her. Same with Shae (completely different character, the only thing in common with book-Shae is that she's a whore hired by Tyrion), and Robb and Talissa. Oh boy they've twisted Robb so much he's not remotely recognizable as Ned Stark's son anymore.

I could be giving them too much credit but considering they've had multiple conversations with George and I've had exactly 0, I can't presume to know how much they know about the end game and how many breadcrumbs they may want to drop to be clever. I think it's most likely that they are just doing what they want with the show, [continued book spoilers I guess]

Spoiler

but the fact that they wrote such an out of nowhere confession for Catelyn- one that has absolutely nothing to do with who she is on the page (and involves an anecdote which is the opposite of what she's like)

just makes me question how much they care about the source material to begin with (despite their claims).

 

[Eidan]

Edit: That reminds me... has the [ASoS]

Spoiler

Ghost of Hight Heart been cast? I don't think she has. I hope she wasn't cut. Her prophecies are very, very interesting. She predicts Balon Greyjoy's death, and Joffrey's poisoning from Sansa's hairnet, and Arya's dark turn, and even Catelyn's dead and undeath! But since they're cutting all the prophecy stuff, she's probably cut.

I didn't even remember that character existed. I imagine she's been cut.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

just makes me question how much they care about the source material to begin with (despite their claims).

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think they could fix Arya by having her recite her list of names a bit more often. They showed that early in S2 after Yoren planted the idea in her head (because hey can't have her get her own ideas... ), and then dropped it completely. Meh.



http://entertainment.time.com/2011/04/18/grrm-interview-part-2-fantasy-and-history/



My bad, this interview actually occurred very shortly before S1 started airing, apparently. I thought it was older than that. I could have sworn there was another, older interview where the example had the reversed genders, a sassy stableboy mouthing off a princess, but the point stands.

If you were asking for a source about GRRM's involvement, well, it's all over, really.

I meant for the proposition that D&D have free leave to write whatever they want regardless of what GRRM wants.

 

[-griffy-]

I could be giving them too much credit but considering they've had multiple conversations with George and I've had exactly 0, I can't presume to know how much they know about the end game and how many breadcrumbs they may want to drop to be clever. I think it's most likely that they are just doing what they want with the show, [continued book spoilers I guess]

Spoiler

but the fact that they wrote such an out of nowhere confession for Catelyn- one that has absolutely nothing to do with who she is on the page (and involves an anecdote which is the opposite of what she's like)

just makes me question how much they care about the source material to begin with (despite their claims).

And for many viewers it sympathizes who was becoming a very cold character and adds some depth to her interactions with Jon earlier in the series. ASOS

Spoiler

And knowing what comes it's incredibly bittersweet to hear her confession, presumably because not only would she likely never tell Jon but that she won't even get the chance to.

It's an incredibly touching moment. But all you guys do is get book blind and rage because it's "out of character" and completely "indefensible." Like it radically alters the fabric of the whole series.

One of the things the show has to grapple with that will be increasingly difficult these next few seasons is keeping the disparate stories connected somehow. This provided a humanizing moment for a character while also giving us a reminder of two characters' connection and a nice transition to the next scene with Jon. From a screenwriting perspective it was incredibly efficient and economical writing. Not an abomination. I don't care how accurate it was to book Catelyn.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

Pretty neat Cello cover of the theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRAb9cwHnA

 

[Eidan]

And for many viewers it sympathizes who was becoming a very cold character and adds some depth to her interactions with Jon earlier in the series. ASOS

Spoiler

And knowing what comes it's incredibly bittersweet to hear her confession, presumably because not only would she likely never tell Jon but that she won't even get the chance to.

It's an incredibly touching moment. But all you guys do is get book blind and rage because it's "out of character" and completely "indefensible." Like it radically alters the fabric of the whole series.

One of the things the show has to grapple with that will be increasingly difficult these next few seasons is somehow keeping the disparate stories connected somehow. This provided a humanizing moment for a character while also giving us a reminder of two characters' connection and a nice transition to the next scene with Jon. From a screenwriting perspective it was incredibly efficient and economical writing. Not an abomination. I don't care how accurate it was to book Catelyn.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[DrForester]

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

With how fast they're advancing some plot lines, like with Danny and Theon, has there been any word if there's going to be plot advancement in the Iron Islands this season, maybe do the King's Moot this season, or at least introduce Crow's Eye? Or is it expected that they'll just kind of ignore them this season?

 

[Brashnir]

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

With how fast they're advancing some plot lines, like with Danny and Theon, has there been any word if there's going to be plot advancement in the Iron Islands this season, maybe do the King's Moot this season, or at least introduce Crow's Eye? Or is it expected that they'll just kind of ignore them this season?

Spoiler

I don't think they're advancing Theon's plot especially fast. This is when all that stuff happened in the books, you just don't hear about it until much later.

I'm assuming it's because they didn't want to write Alfie Allen off the show for 3 years when they could put this stuff in now instead.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

With how fast they're advancing some plot lines, like with Danny and Theon, has there been any word if there's going to be plot advancement in the Iron Islands this season, maybe do the King's Moot this season, or at least introduce Crow's Eye? Or is it expected that they'll just kind of ignore them this season?

I'd bet we'll start seeing that stuff next season.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

And for many viewers it sympathizes who was becoming a very cold character and adds some depth to her interactions with Jon earlier in the series. ASOS

Spoiler

And knowing what comes it's incredibly bittersweet to hear her confession, presumably because not only would she likely never tell Jon but that she won't even get the chance to.

It's an incredibly touching moment. But all you guys do is get book blind and rage because it's "out of character" and completely "indefensible." Like it radically alters the fabric of the whole series.

One of the things the show has to grapple with that will be increasingly difficult these next few seasons is somehow keeping the disparate stories connected somehow. This provided a humanizing moment for a character while also giving us a reminder of two characters' connection and a nice transition to the next scene with Jon. From a screenwriting perspective it was incredibly efficient and economical writing. Not an abomination. I don't care how accurate it was to book Catelyn.

You couldn't be more right, IMO.

 

[Eidan]

.

Might want to spoiler that.

 

[Brashnir]

Might want to spoiler that.

oops, thanks.

 

[Lothar]

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

With how fast they're advancing some plot lines, like with Danny and Theon, has there been any word if there's going to be plot advancement in the Iron Islands this season, maybe do the King's Moot this season, or at least introduce Crow's Eye? Or is it expected that they'll just kind of ignore them this season?

Let's hope they drop that stuff entirely because that was the dullest part of the books and the biggest evidence that Martin badly needs an editor.

 

[RaidenZR]

And for many viewers it sympathizes who was becoming a very cold character and adds some depth to her interactions with Jon earlier in the series. ASOS

Spoiler

And knowing what comes it's incredibly bittersweet to hear her confession, presumably because not only would she likely never tell Jon but that she won't even get the chance to.

It's an incredibly touching moment. But all you guys do is get book blind and rage because it's "out of character" and completely "indefensible." Like it radically alters the fabric of the whole series.

One of the things the show has to grapple with that will be increasingly difficult these next few seasons is somehow keeping the disparate stories connected somehow. This provided a humanizing moment for a character while also giving us a reminder of two characters' connection and a nice transition to the next scene with Jon. From a screenwriting perspective it was incredibly efficient and economical writing. Not an abomination. I don't care how accurate it was to book Catelyn.

I didn't say it was indefensible, and if I do compartmentalize myself and judge the show on its own terms I certainly don't feel that Catelyn is a cold character. Therefore that scene doesn't change my opinion of her drastically, either. If they want to make her warmer and have the viewers sympathize with her, they could certainly do it in a dozens ways. Now, having knowledge of the source material- [book series spoilers]

Spoiler

I find it striking that what they would choose to do is something that flies in the face of a REALLY specific thing that the book often goes out of its way to underscore. How she feels about Jon Snow is not something that needed to be compromised in my opinion. And while I don't disagree that it doesn't radically alter the fabric of the series, it does radically alter the fabric of a main character. That's notable in my opinion as well, and as a show watched it certainly tempers my expectations of the liberties they may take.

There's no reason to get all angry. It's not blind book rage you're seeing. It's hard to know the machinations of the show's decisions because while some changes are understandable (for budget, time, casting, and scope reasons) some are not that transparent. Hence why I was speculating out loud here if the showrunners may know something further and feel like dropping nuggets that could provide color the books never did.

The show is still based on A Song of Fire and Ice, as far as I know, so we are free to discuss the relationship between the two and how that changes as the show carries on over the course of this thread.

 

[phazedplasma]

And for many viewers it sympathizes who was becoming a very cold character and adds some depth to her interactions with Jon earlier in the series. ASOS

Spoiler

And knowing what comes it's incredibly bittersweet to hear her confession, presumably because not only would she likely never tell Jon but that she won't even get the chance to.

It's an incredibly touching moment. But all you guys do is get book blind and rage because it's "out of character" and completely "indefensible." Like it radically alters the fabric of the whole series.

One of the things the show has to grapple with that will be increasingly difficult these next few seasons is keeping the disparate stories connected somehow. This provided a humanizing moment for a character while also giving us a reminder of two characters' connection and a nice transition to the next scene with Jon. From a screenwriting perspective it was incredibly efficient and economical writing. Not an abomination. I don't care how accurate it was to book Catelyn.

A lot of the transitions this episode were extremely well done. That scene included.