Game Pass creates an ecosystem where developers are not valued and rewarded, says ex-Bethesda and Microsoft exec Pete Hines
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
bighugeguns
Gold Member
I can imagine Sony are hysterical after their little GAAS implosion and with COD on Gamepass.
Sure sounds that way.
Maybe they're in deeper shit than people realize.
If Gamepass goes, Xbox goes, Windows goes as SteamOS will become the main OS for gaming, Microsoft wouldn't allow this to happen. So who's driving this narrative? Valve? No way.
Sony seems to be having an extreme honesty crisis internally, maybe this is all just a coordinated projection of that internal corruption.
Sure sounds that way.
Maybe they're in deeper shit than people realize.
If Gamepass goes, Xbox goes, Windows goes as SteamOS will become the main OS for gaming, Microsoft wouldn't allow this to happen. So who's driving this narrative? Valve? No way.
Sony seems to be having an extreme honesty crisis internally, maybe this is all just a coordinated projection of that internal corruption.
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Killjoy-NL
Banned
Yes, because GP is just a dumb idea.
Artistic
Member
Agree to disagree.
clappedcheeks
Member
I don't get the correlation between a few Xbox execs speaking out about gamepass and Sony. What do they have to do with it?
clappedcheeks
Member
GP is great for the consumer but it's currently not so much for developers if these people are to be believed. As for people/industry being against Microsoft, that's a bit of a stretch. There are many journalists and industry figures cheerleading for them and supporting every move they make.
Steve Holt
Member
CentralScrutinizer
Member
Modern game development isn't compatible with American corporatism. American corporations are not trained to think about long term financials. It's all NOW NOW NOW NOW.
StreetsofBeige
Member
I wonder what Pete Hines opinion is of ES Online and Fallout 76. Trash games when they launched and then they launched sub plan options for them too. And that was before MS got involved buying them out.
Guy probably loved it promoting it as best things ever. Funny how both games you can buy it and have sub plan options. No different than any game on GP or PS+ where you can buy it or sub it for perks.
Guy probably loved it promoting it as best things ever. Funny how both games you can buy it and have sub plan options. No different than any game on GP or PS+ where you can buy it or sub it for perks.
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MisterXDTV
Member
How can you expect a game to sell if you give it away for free with a subscription service people stacked YEARS for pennies???
Who's the idiot that buys something that's included in his subscription??
GamePass was created for this exact reason: NOT to buy games!
bighugeguns
Gold Member
lol, Phil put an offer in for Arrowhead, didn't he.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
It was made available for purchase on PC and PS too. Not enough people wanted to play it unfortunately.How can you expect a game to sell if you give it away for free with a subscription service people stacked YEARS for pennies???
Who's the idiot that buys something that's included in his subscription??
GamePass was created for this exact reason: NOT to buy games!
clappedcheeks
Member
Ahh. I get the schtick now. You're a troll and a complete bellend that just spews nonsense.
bighugeguns
Gold Member
I like PlayStation too, bro, relax.
clappedcheeks
Member
Like whoever you like, bro. Maybe stop taking so many mushrooms before posting. Some seriously nonsensical bollocks you've been spouting tonight.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Sometimes engagement is better than short term profit. That engagement can bring in new customers and word of mouth. Then once the engagement has spread like wildfire, it can be converted into revenue.
Ms hires good eggs that know this stuff.
Ms hires good eggs that know this stuff.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think he is right tbh.
It does devalue games and people's work to a degree. Its also a great deal for us.
Also, alot of devs are pumping out bullshit so fuck em. But if they do good stuff ill buy their games at some point.
Shrugs
It does devalue games and people's work to a degree. Its also a great deal for us.
Also, alot of devs are pumping out bullshit so fuck em. But if they do good stuff ill buy their games at some point.
Shrugs
ChorizoPicozo
Member
As I said once, we could've been talking about how Game Pass saved the industry and even the medium, but the way MS/Xbox executed the service was at the expense of developers and the industry
Bumblebeetuna
Banned
You also said 1,382 times that GamePass is dead or would die. Also LOL @ GamePass "saving the industry/medium". How would a small scale sub service catered to the smallest console user base "save" anything?
Topher
Identifies as young
As I said once, we could've been talking about how Game Pass saved the industry and even the medium, but the way MS/Xbox executed the service was at the expense of developers and the industry
Dang.....Shannon Loftis too?
bighugeguns
Gold Member
As I said once, we could've been talking about how Game Pass saved the industry and even the medium, but the way MS/Xbox executed the service was at the expense of developers and the industry
23 likes on some paid for blue account, you should go click like some more.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
uh, who gives a flying fuck about a blue account?
im talking about what the executives said
Klayzer
Member
Deflection.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
bighugeguns
Gold Member
You really suck at this. Pete, that you?
Sarah "Deflection" Bond
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Topher
Identifies as young
That's not a "blue account". It is linked in.
Former Bethesda Exec Says Gaming Subscription Services 'Worth Jack S***' Without Proper Support for Game Developers - IGN | shawn layden | 24 comments
Final Friday post: I'm just going to leave this here. I believe Pete's colorful quote hits this nail right on the head. The question is not, "is the service profitable for the platform". Is it healthy and helpful for the developer is what we need to ask. https://lnkd.in/guHygh-v | 24 comments...
www.linkedin.com
What does it matter? She still said it.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
i hope Nadella (or someone close to him) has the balls to say that to Phil Spencer
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think gamepass should go away...
Then give these devs 5 more years and see what they complain about then.
Im sure it will somehow end up being our fault.
Then give these devs 5 more years and see what they complain about then.
Im sure it will somehow end up being our fault.
delishcaek
Member
In the past it was Steam sales devaluing developers efforts. Then it was Metacritic. Then it was the 30% cut. Now it's Gamepass.
It is never the people running the studios or the publishers... it's always something or someone else to blame.
Klayzer
Member
I can't think of anything she's done, since becoming head of Xbox. Somebody has to play the "fall guy" role, I suppose.
Sarah "Deflection" Bond
TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
Yes.
They are paid, sure, but a pittance compared to what normal purchases would be - IF the game would be at least somewhat successful.
Which is why some games exist only due to the subscription model.
Eg Josh Sawyer said Pentiment would never have been made if it was not for game pass.
While this might sound positive, the truth is:
If a game cannot sustain itself on purchases, it shouldn't have been made in the first place (or out of someone's pocket who doesn't need return on investment), there was no target audience, clearly.
You can see how harmful subscription model has been to musicians:
They make practically zero from Spotify, etc. (unless they are Katy Perry-sized in listener amount)
Instead of making money with their music, they need to make money with live shows, merch, etc. All kinds of stuff that isn't really primarily what many musicians care about. (bonus: Why do you think ticket prices have skyrocketed?)
I don't want that kind of economy for video games.
I want game devs to be able to focus on making good video games, not having to do extra stuff just to finance development.
And I don't care that Little Timmy cannot afford to buy ten games per month and wants subscription.... only to then play much less than ten anyway. Get ahold of your finances, Timmy, you are messing shit up for the rest of us.
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Topher
Identifies as young
First time I'm hearing anyone suggest those "devalue developer efforts".
Steve Holt
Member
The cheap short term consumer benefits it brings isn't worth the damage it's doing across the board.
Roberts
Banned
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Certain folks would still be like:
No I don't believe such effects exist . Perhaps games designed for longevity and GaaS.
But in generally people tend to ascribe to much effect to gamepass.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Come on Gamepass sucks for developers, wake up and smell the coffee
Artistic
Member
It's not ideal, but I already stated my case.
MisterXDTV
Member
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Musicians aren't paid a salary. Game developers are. GP also tends to pay a lump sum and its not zero. You're trying to draw a superficial connection when they aren't the same thing. Gamepass is also a small optional service so if you want to not participate you can just sell on the stores.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
She didn't say anything. Same vague crap as Hines. What does "value developers" mean? Does it mean pay them? They get paid. Does it mean never get fired ever? No distribution model promises that; just ask Concord devs who might have been saved with a sub release.That's not a "blue account". It is linked in.
Former Bethesda Exec Says Gaming Subscription Services 'Worth Jack S***' Without Proper Support for Game Developers - IGN | shawn layden | 24 comments
Final Friday post: I'm just going to leave this here. I believe Pete's colorful quote hits this nail right on the head. The question is not, "is the service profitable for the platform". Is it healthy and helpful for the developer is what we need to ask. https://lnkd.in/guHygh-v | 24 comments...
What does it matter? She still said it.
Developers don't have any say in the financials of a large publisher. They set the price, the distribution model, the marketing, sales and discounts. I still don't know what they're even talking about, which tells me its vague on purpose. They're trying to shit on GP but can't say whats wrong with it. Pretty odd. A publisher setting pricing has nothing to do with valuing a developer. Hell MS just tried releasing Outer Worlds 2 for $80 and you saw how that went.
The more I see these developer whining sessions, the more I respect MS for trying something new for consumers and not caving to these people. Consumers really need to stop falling for this. Prices and monetization have skyrocketed and they still want to throw GP under the bus for barely trying to give consumers a good deal.
Horseganador
Member
Hines doesn't need to say it, we've been saying it for years.
Wildebeest
Member
Skeptical. Bethesda had gone off the rails before Microsoft bought them. Bethesda as a publisher also had a quite shady past in terms of how they treated developers. People are still salty about how they treated Human Head and cancelled Prey 2 despite it hitting milestones.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Come onnnnnn.
MS wanted to sink the industry with a race to the bottom, consumers is the last thing in their thoughts.
The way to be pro consumer is making awesome games. That's it. Becoming the pinnacle of mediocrity is not it.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
You guys are detached from reality. Just in the next 3 months alone, I'm going to play Outer Worlds 2, Call of Duty, Keeper and Ninja Gaiden 4, plus everything else on GP, plus the numerous other games I buy. Then there will be another dev direct in January showing more.
Bumblebeetuna
Banned
We have no idea what the payment is and it's different for every game. The games are also available at retail not only on Xbox but also on any other platform the publisher wants.
Your link explains in black and white from Sawyer himself what is actually wrong with the industry. Hint: it isn't GamePass.
Personally I don't care if a publisher needs a return on investment. If a mega rich company wants to fund a bunch of niche games because they don't care about ROI, as a consumer why would that be a negative for me?
This isn't remotely close to anything going on in the video game industry. First and foremost, a majority of people don't buy music anymore. The physical market is essentially dead, and even digital, people would rather stream than buy.
Video games are still available at a shrinking retail market, but digital has never been more popular. And publishers make more on digital sales. Also, developers are paid a salary. They don't need tours or merchandise.
Bad news friend, devs have been having to do extra stuff to justify development to publishers and have been for years and years, long before GamePass. It was all right there in that Josh Sawyer article you linked earlier.
Personally why do you care about "Little Timmy" and his finances? If he plays seven games a month or whatever, cool? This doesn't affect you at all. You can buy those same seven games outside of GamePass plus any other games you want.
Shubh_C63
Member
I maybe was under the wrong impression then, because MS doing Gamepass looked exactly like they're thinking long term.
Eventually, two decades from now maybe, Cloud gaming will become the norm and Gamepass is effectively allowed to bleed money till that time when it will be the best cloud infrastructure with the greatest library.
Phil himself said their greatest failure was capitalizing on Xbox One when digital library was being made. Now they pivot into correcting that problem so hard because that's the only long term plan to success they see. They cannot compete traditionally with Sony/Nintendo.
