StereoVsn
Gold Member
You can disable update notifications like that but should have Pro, Enteprise or just get LTSC.
Games run faster on SteamOS than Windows 11, Ars testing finds
Mister Wolf
Member
Linux has bugs and problems too. They're in the same boat. So when I see you people cry about Windows issues while keeping silent about all the issues that crop up using Linux for gaming you just come across as dishonest. A couple of guys on here that use both keep it real. But some of the Linux proponents on here are a bit much in their attempt to further the agenda.
Should I pregame and get the holy wars started with a new thread? "vi and emacs both suck, nano 4 life"
Hector Hall
Member
Could if Valve is very successful the PC world split?
General purpose machines with Windows, playing games worse and not caring too much.
And gaming SteamOS machines, stripped of some PC functionality for work, but with better performance?
General purpose machines with Windows, playing games worse and not caring too much.
And gaming SteamOS machines, stripped of some PC functionality for work, but with better performance?
I'd wager the people arguing aren't actively using both solutions. Or maybe just have a Windows PC, and SteamOS on a Deck.
My SteamOS console experiment is going OK. I have an AMD mini PC and it runs well. But getting controllers to work was a massive PITA. Switch Pro controllers, Xbox controllers over Bluetooth or with an Xbox adapter outright don't work. Or in the case of the Switch controllers work, but won't reconnect requiring manually forgetting the controller and re-pairing it every time time. I gave up and snagged some 8bitdo Wireless 2C. Those have dedicated 2.4Ghz USB dongle that were just plug and play. Though now I need a larger USB hub as each controller eats one up.
On Windows this stuff just works. Linux gaming has changed massively over the last few years. But everyone that complains PCs are so complex compared to consoles aren't anywhere near ready to deal with resolving issues on Linux. If everythings working for you? Great. But once it breaks you're deep diving down into the OS versus uninstall and reinstalling a driver a manufacturer made and supports for Windows.
Mister Wolf
Member
When I had my Lenovo Legion Go Steam OS, I bought a game called Shadow Labyrinth. The game wouldn't even show me the graphic settings. When I tried to play Clair Obscur I had to enter a launch option just for it to show me certain graphics options.
reinking
Gold Member
That is where they are most likely using MacOS.
At least there was a launcher you could run pregame to change settings.
I ran into a Japanese game that threw you into the game and you had to go through about 40 mins of gameplay which defaulted to the lowest settings possible just to gain access to the game's main menu which then let you change settings. Some real Einsteins thought that one through.
Topher
Identifies as young
Wolzard
Member
One point to understand is that the Mesa driver is constantly evolving, so the current performance of the RDNA 4 and ray tracing is due to them being recent products. Valve says it is working on improvements to the RADV for ray tracing. There's some new news about it every week.
When RDNA 3 was released, it took at least a year for it to achieve the same performance as Windows and, in some cases, surpass it.
This driver is open source, development is slower, but it's continuous development. Just look at the RX 580 capable of running Alan Wake 2, even without Mesh Shader support. Or Indiana Jones also runs on that card.
If you live on the bleeding edge and like to experiment with new technologies, Linux might not be for you, as development has a slower pace.
When RDNA 3 was released, it took at least a year for it to achieve the same performance as Windows and, in some cases, surpass it.
This driver is open source, development is slower, but it's continuous development. Just look at the RX 580 capable of running Alan Wake 2, even without Mesh Shader support. Or Indiana Jones also runs on that card.
If you live on the bleeding edge and like to experiment with new technologies, Linux might not be for you, as development has a slower pace.
Broad Spectrum
Member
A) The cyberpunk benchmark that I included is at 3440x1440. Is that 1080p?
B) 1080p is the most commonly used resolution for PC gamers. 1440p and 4k are less common. If you read my post again, I literally said that Cyberpunk would be a better experience on Windows even without the raytracing. Again, RT ultra is not a setting most people use on the PC. You're the one being deliberately misleading by fixating on settings the majority of gamers don't even use. Looking at the commonly used resolutions and settings is not cooking the books to nefariously give Linux a competitive advantage. And if you think a 6% performance advantage in AMD at 1440p is worth essentially eating Microsoft dung every time they decide to force a new unwanted feature down your throat, I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on things.
You have near Linux parity and in some cases Linux performance superiority right now. I don't think that's going to get worse as adoption gets more widespread and once NVIDIA fixes its driver issues.
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Wolzard
Member
I would compare this development of Vulkan/Proton/Mesa to the period of DirectX 1 through 9, when it finally stabilized and had virtually all the features. Subsequent versions were just minor increments.
Pre-DX9 games varied too much, GPUs that could run some games couldn't run others, there were many incompatibilities. It took at least almost 10 years after the launch of DirectX for it to reach a level with little variation.
Pre-DX9 games varied too much, GPUs that could run some games couldn't run others, there were many incompatibilities. It took at least almost 10 years after the launch of DirectX for it to reach a level with little variation.
Soodanim
Member
Mister Wolf
Member
A) The cyberpunk benchmark that I included is at 3440x1440. Is that 1080p?
B) 1080p is the most commonly used resolution for PC gamers. 1440p and 4k are less common. If you read my post again, I literally said that Cyberpunk would be a better experience on Windows even without the raytracing. Again, RT ultra is not a setting most people use on the PC. You're the one being deliberately misleading by fixating on settings the majority of gamers don't even use. Looking at the commonly used resolutions and settings is not cooking the books to nefariously give Linux a competitive advantage. And if you think a 6% performance advantage in AMD at 1440p is worth essentially eating Microsoft dung every time they decide to force a new unwanted feature down your throat, I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on things.
You have near Linux parity and in some cases Linux performance superiority right now. I don't think that's going to get worse as adoption gets more widespread and once NVIDIA fixes its driver issues.
The constant cropping of the Nvidia results is sad. Also 1080p is common amongst people with weak hardware. It isn't common amongst individuals using RTX 5080s and 9070XTs like in these benchmarks. And even if they do opt for 1080p they use that spare power to GPU limit themselves with features like raytracing which Linux fails at or supersampling.
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{insert code here}
Member
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Member
I had one of these Windows updates literally break my PC's restart function. I think it was the 23H update but yeah, my computer would just do a hard shutdown anytime I tried restarting which meant I couldn't update my BIOs (or anything else that required rebooting) for 6 months when they finally fixed it. Never experienced that kinda incompetence from the Windows team before but I basically skip updates now.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
God, I hate Vim with a passion! Bring on the thread!
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I mean… objectively speaking if you want consistency, not much BS, no constant stupid software gimmicks (CoPilot key, lol) and don't want to mess around with Linux… you get a Mac. The number of issues I have had to deal with once I converted my family (and my parents and my wife's parents) to Mac basically got cut by 90%+.That is where they are most likely using MacOS.
Modern M series Mini, Studio, Air and Pro are very good and you can get solid deals on them during sales.
reinking
Gold Member
I have experience with Macs due to my daughter and granddaughter. I will most likely be buying a MacBook myself for my next non-gaming PC. I wonder how much more popular Macs would be if they did not have such a premium on storage. I know someone that was immediately turned off from MacBooks because of it. 256GB as an option for these days should be a crime even on the low end.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yeah, storage upgrades are dumb. The "trick" is basically to buy next "standard" model up that is carried in 3rd party retail.
As an example, basically everyone like Microcenter, BestBuy and Amazon are running sales on variety of models. Don't customize on Apple's site unless it's needed for work and they are paying, lol. Or you can write it off on taxes.
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Drell
Member
The difference is that if there's a problem on Linux, you can count on the community to fix it. As for Windows, you have to count on MS goodwill. And that depend of their agenda.
Mister Wolf
Member
Its their job to fix it. Not mine. And fix it they did. So now its fixed and everythings still the same. Faster than Linux on AMD, faster than Linux on Nvidia, faster with raytracing, can play games that use kernel level anti-cheat, can run gamepass, can play Minecraft. Linux is not worth it. You lose too much and gain nothing in return that relates to gaming. It can't even run AMD's Adrenalin software.
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Broad Spectrum
Member
Do you have any statistics to back that statement up or are you just pulling numbers out of your ass?
Some of the absurd things I've seen in this thread:
Can't bench AMD at 1080p. Numbers are too close.
Cant mention superior handheld performance.
Can't talk about OS features beyond gaming because gaming computers are single-dimensional creatures and the only thing anyone cares about is gaming. OS spying is a non-issue. Unwanted features are a non-issue. Forced obsolescence of capable PCs because they don't have a TPM is a non-issue.
Must run raytracing and at least 1440p. 4k preferable.
Yes, I suppose if we limit the absolute scope of a high-end PC to nothing but 4k ray tracing Ultra, you're absolutely right.
Minor FPS differences going from Linux to Windows are intolerable. But running an FPS eater like raytracing is required
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Mister Wolf
Member
Do you have any statistics to back that statement up or are you just pulling numbers out of your ass?
Some of the absurd things I've seen in this thread:
Can't bench AMD at 1080p. Numbers are too close.
Cant mention superior handheld performance.
Can't talk about OS features beyond gaming because gaming computers are single-dimensional creatures and the only thing anyone cares about is gaming. OS spying is a non-issue. Unwanted features are a non-issue. Forced obsolescence of capable PCs because they don't have a TPM is a non-issue.
Must run raytracing and at least 1440p. 4k preferable.
Yes, I suppose if we limit the absolute scope of a high-end PC to nothing but 4k ray tracing Ultra, you're absolutely right.
Minor FPS differences going from Linux to Windows are intolerable. But running an FPS eater like raytracing is required
I already mentioned fixed handheld performance being better with SteamOS. Low power fixed hardware
Here's another one for Desktop. Running on some old AMD gpu too. Same outcome:
Gaming with Linux on a desktop PC is all losses.
Broad Spectrum
Member
You just completely ignored the question. Do you have any statistics support your statement that 1080p isn't common amongst people using RTX 5080s and 9070XTs?
It's okay for you to invent statistics. But if people post situations where Linux performance is better you complain about the data?
There's a word for that you know.
8BiTw0LF
Consoomer
I use Linux cause I don't like Microsoft. I'd rather compile every application myself than being in the Windows eco-system. Buying an operating system that collects your data, so Microsoft can sell it, seems like a very bad deal. I use AI on my own terms - localized in a sandbox - no alien entity scanning through my daily life.
I have seen the light and there's no going back. Save yourselves from evil corporations, which are trying to replace you. Install Linux and join the revolution.
I have seen the light and there's no going back. Save yourselves from evil corporations, which are trying to replace you. Install Linux and join the revolution.
Crayon
Member
I already mentioned fixed handheld performance being better with SteamOS. Low power fixed hardware
Here's another one for Desktop. Running on some old AMD gpu too. Same outcome:
Gaming with Linux on a desktop PC is all losses.
It fixes stuttering. That's a big win.
Poppinfresh
Gold Member
You're not wrong, but as someone who uses a PC hooked up to their living room TV as their main gaming PC, Linux is 100% the smoother experience, at least for what I want to do with it.
I did use Windows on this PC for a long time, but had to run a bunch of custom scripts for it to boot Steam Big Picture Mode first (before the Explorer shell), without having to log in to Windows, etc, and it seemed like every time Windows updated, one of those scripts would break.
Linux, at least CachyOS, just worked.
Mister Wolf
Member
My problem is with your cherry picking. Here's an example of me using that same video.
I dont have crop anything, write a whole page of text, or come up with a bunch of excuses about what games or hardware are being used. The results speak for themselves.
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Minsc
Gold Member
Edge is the best thing about Windows. Using multiple PCs/laptops, edge's syncs tab groups (and vertical no less) are like a evolution of web browsing. Especially the way you get stickied tabs on top of the open tabs.
I just run like ~100 tabs that all stay in sync between all PCs. It's all pretty effortless in Edge, if there's one thing I really enjoy in Windows, it's Edge for sure.
RafterXL
Member
The ironic part about Steam OS, is that if it is the thing that makes Linux a viable Windows competitor, the Linux crowd are going to hate it. The things that people love the most about Linux are also the things that hold it back from becoming mainstream. You can't have 50 different distros that all work differently and expect to compete with a standardized OS. Steam OS becoming popular will basically kill off every other distro and standardize Linux for gaming and it's a necessary evil. For a lot of long time Linux fans this is a monkey paw situation.
More power to you! At least you're honest about it. Hating Microsoft, or Windows, and using an alternate because of it is perfectly valid. It's the people who bullshit about what Linux is, how it performs, and where it currently stands as a Windows alternative that drive me crazy.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Do you have any statistics that 9700XT and 5080s users are using only potato 1080p screens??
Plus why should I care what others use??? I care what I use.
Broad Spectrum
Member
I'm not the one making the claim. Why would I provide the statistics? I don't think there are any authoritative numbers on that otherwise he would have provided them when I accused him of pulling numbers out of his ass.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Because you are saying that majority of PC gamers play at 1080p. Are the same majority running 5080s or 9700XT???
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Logically speaking it wouldn't make sense that folks with higher end GPUs are running 1080p screens.
Unless maybe if we are talking about those who are primarily esports folks but that would be a minority of higher end GPU users.
MrJangles
Member
Returnal's performance is quite an eye opener. I bought it on Friday and have noticed a few small yet disappointing frame drops on my 2080 at high settings. Am currently on Windows 10 but I really want to give MS the elbow when 10 has given up the ghost. Been using Windows since 98. Zzzzzz....
Broad Spectrum
Member
The majority of PC Gamers are playing at 1080p. With the next highest group in 1440p. 4K, like you guys are so fond of saying about Linux, has niche numbers. If we're going to pearl clutch about cherry picking data, we really shouldn't be including a niche resolution in benchmarks that we intend to show your average gamer how Linux will perform on their systems.
Unless you have data to support the claim that the majority of people running 5080s or 9070XTs are using the highest resolutions, it's actually safer to assume that many of them are running at 1080p because it represents almost 55% of the PC ecosystem. 1080p is only 10% lower in terms of PC market share than Windows 11 itself is.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I am playing at 3440x1440p or 4k. What is the relevance of those who playing at 1080p for me or the benchmark numbers on the thread??? Should we considers the majority that has a PS2 or Switch too???The majority of PC Gamers are playing at 1080p. With the next highest group in 1440p. 4K, like you guys are so fond of saying about Linux, has niche numbers. If we're going to pearl clutch about cherry picking data, we really shouldn't be including a niche resolution in benchmarks that we intend to show your average gamer how Linux will perform on their systems.
Unless you have data to support the claim that the majority of people running 5080s or 9070XTs are using the highest resolutions, it's actually safer to assume that many of them are running at 1080p because it represents almost 55% of the PC ecosystem. 1080p is only 10% lower in terms of PC market share than Windows 11 itself is.
Mister Wolf
Member
Even at 1080p on Desktop, Linux loses. The benchmarks i posted from two different channels backs up that statement. Now watch him go on a tirade about what games were used.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
"But people playing on low settings at 480i have better frame rate on Linux."
Soren01
Member
It looks like this reality isn't going to change. Linux itself is dependent on Windows, given that practically nobody is making native games for the platform. Linux is relying on Windows commercial success
Broad Spectrum
Member
You're not the only person reading this thread rodrigo.
Yes, as we've already established, that 6-18 FPS difference is well worth putting up with Windows spyware.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
And??
Mister Wolf
Member
"But people playing on low settings at 480i have better frame rate on Linux."
You forgot 480i on 9070XTs and RTX 5080s.
"Don't use Nvidia, dont use new AMD, don't use raytracing, don't use DirectX 12, dont use resolutions over 1080p."
Sad......
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
"Don't play games outside Steam, with anti cheat, that are not platinum on protondb, Xenia..."
alabtrosMyster
Member
I just moved to Linux a few months ago (3)... My move was pretty easy and mostly hassle-free, other than losing my expedition 33 cloud save for some reason
.But the best is that once I was setup it just let me be, doesn't harras me to use a Windows account, some random service, show some full screen advertising from time to time when I reboot, the Xbox game bar... And they keep coming back.
I also have many computers, I don't want my settings in sync between my living room PC and my desktop machine.
On the bright side it also felt like my computer got about twice as fast for common tasks, which I thought were pretty good in Windows already, it's like a free upgrade.
Broad Spectrum
Member
The reason you're not direct quoting me anywhere is because none of that was my position. Do you have those numbers yet Mister Wolf, or are you just going to keep inventing statistics to win an argument:
RoboFu
One of the green rats
A lot of these arguments don't even matter. most PEOPLE these days do not even want a laptop.. they are happy with their phones and tablets for their day to day needs.
it's not Linux versus windows as much as windows and big PCs staying relevant at all to the home consumer. What you guys are arguing about only matters to core gamers. which are only a sliver of a fraction of steam users who are mostly low speced users.
it's not Linux versus windows as much as windows and big PCs staying relevant at all to the home consumer. What you guys are arguing about only matters to core gamers. which are only a sliver of a fraction of steam users who are mostly low speced users.