Gamexplain Explains the Joy-Con Desyncing Problem

In this day and age the silence of at least acknowledging that they're aware of the issue seems really strange. Had this been Sony or MS a Tweet would have gone out within an hour with some kind of "Our technicians are working on it..." non-committal statement. Modern Nintendo seems to like confusion, angst and drama though.
 
Saint Gregory said:
In this day and age the silence of at least acknowledging that they're aware of the issue seems really strange. Had this been Sony or MS a Tweet would have gone out within an hour with some kind of "Our technicians are working on it..." non-committal statement. Modern Nintendo seems to like confusion, angst and drama though.
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So they are still completely mum on this? That's extremely terrible PR.
 
If only I could start new threads....

For the love of God can someone make a new topic! "Sum up the switch reveal/launch in a single gif."

Someone be my hero.
 
pixelpatr0n said:
"Sum up the switch reveal/launch in a single gif."
.
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tumblr_inline_o58r6dmSfe1suaed2_500.gif
 
DragonGirl said:
Sometimes issues are the nature of the beast, not poor design. I'm not saying that is the case here, just pointing out that most people are speaking from a non expert platform. It's easy to make assumptions and default to blame when you don't understand the challenges or limitations inherent in any particular design or technology. It's like saying the Switch has a cheap crappy battery because Zelda can only run 2.5 hours in handheld mode without having any understanding of the limitations in battery technology.

People are quick to panic and condemn before even understanding the whys and wherefores. This problem as it exists seems limited to a particular scenario, and within that scenario it can probably be mitigated with a stronger signal. At this point, I just can't work myself up into a torches and pitchforks frame of mind.
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Should customers need to understand the whys and wherefores? If something isn't working properly it's not working properly.

Expecting a controller to work is a bit different than expecting 12 hour battery life on max brightness from a device that will fit in your pocket.
 
Super weird that this want reported heavily on during preview events. Must have been because of the proximity players were to the console.
 
Saint Gregory said:
In this day and age the silence of at least acknowledging that they're aware of the issue seems really strange. Had this been Sony or MS a Tweet would have gone out within an hour with some kind of "Our technicians are working on it..." non-committal statement. Modern Nintendo seems to like confusion, angst and drama though.
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And if they were smart... get it out before Zelda previews... could comment and more than likely would have been buried in the positive previews.
 
On the one hand, if this isn't fixed this is a genuinely massive issue.

The switch is supposed to be a product with mass appeal, so expecting people to play 'a certain way' is nuts. This is really poor on Nintendo's part, and is another sign that they are an insular company that are not good at listening to and taking in to account the outside world. It's no surprising though, as this is Nintendo. It's why we're not getting proper voice chat, no achievements, and why the president of NOA is nothing but a marketing puppet.

On the other hand, that is the kind of thing I should only be saying after launch. This seems like an easily fixable thing, the console hasn't even released yet, why are we panicking? It's Nintendo, they'll fix it! They gave a ton of free games to people who bought the 3DS at launch for no other reason than they were nice!

TLDR: Nintendo are Nintendo.
 
Otnopolit said:
Tons of speculation, but we don't know. Apparently a dude with Nintendo sources say an update will fix this before launch, but the further away we heard that the less I believe it. Were it so simple, they would've said as much officially by now.
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Didnt this information really just come out yesterday?

They may want to test things for a few days before promising it to be fixed by launch, they might put out a statement Monday with when it will be fixed
 
Ashby said:
Sorry if this has been answered already, does this still happen when the joy cons are put in grips?
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Otnopolit said:
Yep yep, the grip doesn't do anything for signal boosting, it's either a holder or a charger plus a holder.
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The JoyCon Charging Grip was tested and surprisingly it seems to give the JoyCons a longer range. Although other places tested the regular non-charging JoyCon grip and say it does nothing for range the JoyCons.

Spinifex said:
We have video evidence that it is possible. When the Joycons are connected to the charging grip, they yield a range that is 46% better than when by themselves. This indicates when they're by themselves, they're transmitting at a far lower power level.
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Spinifex said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRtEdA5OKI&feature=player_embedded



The other reports from Kotaku, Polygon etc indicate that using them in the standard grip makes no difference, connection problems persist. But you are right, to control for variables testing using the standard grip vs the charging grip should be done, however I'm fairly confident this is merely an issue of transmit power, and that while undocked it is dialed way down, or a bug is preventing it from dialing up when required.
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Ripenen said:
Should customers need to understand the whys and wherefores? If something isn't working properly it's not working properly.

Expecting a controller to work is a bit different than expecting 12 hour battery life on max brightness from a device that will fit in your pocket.
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I'm saying that people in this thread should act like customers and see how this issue actually affects them. We know how you can intentionally make the controller have issues. Now how relevant is that to how you actually use the controller. The actual extent of this problem will only be revealed when the Switch is out in the wild.

Also, my battery comparison is hardly off. I'm talking about inherent limitations, not expectations. The inherent limitation of the Switch battery is the state of battery technology. The possible inherent imitation of the joycon may be its small size. And again, it is a problem that can probably be mitigated with a stronger signal from the emitter.

Edit: Ah, the post above me seems to confirm this. Joycons probably go into power saver mode when not connected to a power source and this puts the signal into a setting that's weak enough to be noticeably affected by covering the top of the controller with your hand. This should not be difficult to fix.
 
DragonGirl said:
I'm saying that people in this thread should act like customers and see how this issue actually affects them. We know how you can intentionally make the controller have issues. Now how relevant is that to how you actually use the controller. The actual extent of this problem will only be revealed when the Switch is out in the wild.

Also, my battery comparison is hardly off. I'm talking about inherent limitations, not expectations. The inherent limitation of the Switch battery is the state of battery technology. The possible inherent imitation of the joycon may be its small size. And again, it is a problem that can probably be mitigated with a stronger signal from the emitter.
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GameXplain video is just trying to go more in depth on a problem already reported by several other outlets. The joycons are acting strange during normal play under certain circumstances.

When acting all expert maybe you should first gather all the info, like an expert would, before commenting.
 
CDX said:
The JoyCon Charging Grip was tested and surprisingly it seems to give the JoyCons a longer range. Although other places tested the regular non-charging JoyCon grip and say it does nothing for range the JoyCons.
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Could it just be that the signals are made weaker to save battery? Maybe that's why the range increases?
 
Compsiox said:
Could it just be that the signals are made weaker to save battery? Maybe that's why the range increases?
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But the joycons battery should last 20 hours. I'm pretty sure that if it lasted 15 hours and had a better signal nobody would have had any issues. That seems like a strange decision to make.
 
DragonGirl said:
Sometimes issues are the nature of the beast, not poor design. I'm not saying that is the case here, just pointing out that most people are speaking from a non expert platform. It's easy to make assumptions and default to blame when you don't understand the challenges or limitations inherent in any particular design or technology. It's like saying the Switch has a cheap crappy battery because Zelda can only run 2.5 hours in handheld mode without having any understanding of the limitations in battery technology.

People are quick to panic and condemn before even understanding the whys and wherefores. This problem as it exists seems limited to a particular scenario, and within that scenario it can probably be mitigated with a stronger signal. At this point, I just can't work myself up into a torches and pitchforks frame of mind.
Click to expand...

Limitations literally don't matter to consumers. The question is entirely "does this product do what I'm paying for it to do at a level I deem acceptable."

And saying "we won't know until the product launches" is just a strong argument in favor of cancelling pre-orders and waiting.
 
KingSnake said:
But the joycons battery should last 20 hours. I'm pretty sure that if it lasted 15 hours and had a better signal nobody would have had any issues. That seems like a strange decision to make.
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It's possible that this is a bug and the Joycons are supposed to be able to increase the signal strength based on range like some others in the thread have suggested. I'm starting to worry that the issue is more complex than that though mostly due to the complete radio silence from Nintendo right now.
 
KingSnake said:
GameXplain video is just trying to go more in depth on a problem already reported by several other outlets. The joycons are acting strange during normal play under certain circumstances.

When acting all expert maybe you should first gather all the info, like an expert would, before commenting.
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I'm literally doing the opposite of acting like an expert. I took great care in couching my language in uncertainty and trying to point out that we do not know the severity or extent of this issue, so don't panic. Simply put, stores have return policies so why not get it into your hands and make a fully informed decision? That's all.

AntraxSuicide said:
Limitations literally don't matter to consumers. The question is entirely "does this product do what I'm paying for it to do at a level I deem acceptable."
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I did not say otherwise. At no point did I say anything to argue with your statement. I was simply addressing the assumption of bad design VS potentially inherent limitations. Not consumer expectations. I address consumer expectations separately with my try it and see statements.

AntraxSuicide said:
And saying "we won't know until the product launches" is just a strong argument in favor of cancelling pre-orders and waiting.
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I disagree. I think it's a strong argument for awareness, trying it out, and then giving feedback to Nintendo to best direct how they address this issue. It could be a non issue. It could be a major issue. The best way to find out is to try it out. We are not at that stage yet.
 
The range that the charging grip improves is not the same with the threshold where the issues are happening. The joycons are still officially synced (led is on) when the issues are happening.

DragonGirl said:
I'm literally doing the opposite of acting like an expert. I took great care in couching my language in uncertainty and trying to point out that we do not know the severity or extent of this issue, so don't panic. Simply put, stores have return policies so why not get it into your hands and make a fully informed decision? That's all.
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Wouldn't be much easier if Nintendo would actually communicate before the pre-orders start being charged and delivered? One way or another? So us, as consumer, to make an informed decision about the risks we are assuming.

Return policy existing is not an universal excuse for any failure happening.

Actually acting like a normal consumer would be to not buy and wait to see if the issue is solved. But people buying a console at launch are rather enthusiasts than normal consumers.
 
Might be the final nail in the coffin for Amazon selling Nintendo products directly. 3DS backfired and too many people returned it.

If I have this connection problem with the Switch I'll be returning it as well.
 
KingSnake said:
The range that the charging grip improves is not the same with the threshold where the issues are happening. The joycons are still officially synced (led is on) when the issues are happening.
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Well, yes? I know this isn't a syncing issue but a signal strength issue.

KingSnake said:
Wouldn't be much easier if Nintendo would actually communicate before the pre-orders start being charged and delivered? One way or another? So us, as consumer, to make an informed decision about the risks we are assuming.
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Well of course, but for better or worse it can take time for large corporations to look into a matter themselves and respond, or even decide when or if to respond depending on the volume of feedback. Nintendo has made the decision to make drastic recalls in the past, look at the launch of the Famicon as an example.

KingSnake said:
Return policy existing is not an universal excuse for any failure happening.

Actually acting like a normal consumer would be to not buy and wait to see if the issue is solved. But people buying a console at launch are rather enthusiasts than normal consumers.
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I'm saying try and see is the best way to discover if there is an issue. At the moment a small pool of people have Switches and some have reported a problem. That's step 1, Awareness that there may be a significant issue. Step two is to see how extensive that problem might be once the Switch hits the market. The more feedback the better. People are of course free to take a wait and see approach. I just don't think it's necessary. I'll be picking my Switch up on the third and testing it out myself and reporting my findings in the inevitable GAF thread.

opricnik said:
1487952776173.gif


Apparently it was visible during feb event too. did nobody questioned ?
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In an event with multiple crowded systems there can be a lot of signal interference which would mask the actual nature of the problem. This is really the sort of thing that you'd only identify in a more controlled environment.
 
So they've got these controllers with motions controls so people can hold them in a variety of ways and spin around and flail their arms and decided to also give them a signal so weak it has trouble passing through fingers. After years of work and development maybe this'll be a thing that gets sorted out by launch. Good job.
 
KingSnake said:
Where from would the shops get revised joycons so quickly if the issue is with the hardware?

Or are you assuming that Nintendo is well aware of the issue and already manufacturing new joycons but deliberately selling Switch with faulty ones?

It would take at least some weeks to get replacements.
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What? Joycons are a generic accessory.
I've bought a console that had a broken controller, and when I rang to ask about returns, I was told to just bring the controller to the shop, and they swapped it with a standalone there and then.

I'm assuming the small number of reports corresponds to a small number of defective units. Not that there is some sort of endemic unfixable problem that mysteriously only a couple of people are savvy enough to spot.

Ripenen said:
If it's caused by the way the controller sits in the player's hand it's not an issue of failure, it's an issue of poor design.
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If it was poor design more people would be reporting this issue, no?
 
Has any media 1-2-Switch? If I remember right, there was a sword fight minigame where You can grab a single joycon with both hands. With all this problems, can we expect that the minigame isn't playable right now?
 
STGHMAAV said:
Has any media 1-2-Switch? If I remember right, there was a sword fight minigame where You can grab a single joycon with both hands. With all this problems, can we expect that the minigame isn't playable right now?
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Isn't this only happening from a certain distance from the console though? The joy cons are going to have a max range.
 
DragonGirl said:
Joycons probably go into power saver mode when not connected to a power source and this puts the signal into a setting that's weak enough to be noticeably affected by covering the top of the controller with your hand. This should not be difficult to fix.
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Forgive my ignorance, but everyone who experienced this said it only happened when further than 5-6 feet from the TV, right? So, if you cover the JoyCon sufficiently (too much) with your hand when only 5-6 feet away, could you also replicate the glitch unwillingly?
 
I wonder if those extended grips will cut down on the issue. If it's been discussed, sorry. Hard to keep up with Switch threads right now.
 
Well hey, that's good news about the changing grip! Better range on a charging battery is a good sign that they are limiting range for a longer battery. Better signal, better range, fewer problems.
 
maxcriden said:
Forgive my ignorance, but everyone who experienced this said it only happened when further than 5-6 feet from the TV, right? So, if you cover the JoyCon sufficiently (too much) with your hand when only 5-6 feet away, could you also replicate the glitch unwillingly?
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If it's a signal strength issue, then there are two factors that would affect the strength of the signal between controller and console. Distance is one and barriers the signal has to pass through would be another. Living tissue is full of water, which is a very strong barrier to wireless signals. How far away you are and how much of a barrier you place between controller and system are separate variables that also interact. How far away you have to be, to cover the controller with your hand and replicate the glitch may vary a little bit from person to person. I have pretty petite paws myself, vs somebody with mighty meat mitts.
 
The theory made in the other thread is that the charging grip might have a longer range because the charging circuit might act like an external antenna.

As the grip is not plugged in at the time of the test, thus nothing changing the power state of the joycons.
 
KingSnake said:
The theory made in the other thread is that the charging grip might have a longer range because the charging circuit might act like an external antenna.

As the grip is not plugged in at the time of the test, thus nothing changing the power state of the joycons.
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I doubt anything is acting like an additional antenna, but once you connect the charger you will alter the ground plane of the device, making it significantly larger (especially since you connect both Joy-Cons together as well). Antennas on small devices like these are very dependent on the size and shape of the ground plane, so it is not at all surprising that it might affect the antenna in some way (could just as likely have been negative as positive, to be honest). The problem then is that this might mean that the connection issues are due to the antenna design and not due to output power (although increasing the output power could possibly be a way to compensate anyway).
 
i'm not buying a charging joycon grip just to get around this issue. as far as i'm concerned the charging joycon grip should've been included with the switch. nintendo are at it. apparently the dock is worth £90/$90. yeah right...they could've easily bundled the charging grip in the box. it makes no sense to have a piece of junk plastic instead of one that has a usb port/battery.
 
The reason Nintendo hasn't said anything is because it's a tiny bubble of the Switch audience that's actually paying attention to this. If anything, it would be worse if they suddenly issued a press release that was posted everywhere saying "JOY CON PROBLEM WILL BE FIXED DON'T WORRY". Suddenly people who aren't paying attention are like "Wait, what? Problem?"

I think a lot of people are forgetting that this is happening to like, less than 50 people across the internet who have Switches already, PRE-RELEASE SWITCHES mind you (WITHOUT THE ALREADY ANNOUNCED DAY 1 FIRMWARE PATCH).

Sure you could argue that I'm being a Nintendo fanboy I guess, but I'd argue that I'm just not panicking and getting butt-crazy over what will likely be a non issue, either because it'll be fixed or because it just won't affect many people. There was already a guy either in this post or another who went to a Switch event yesterday or today who tested it (after asking the reps) and couldn't make the issue happen. Maybe the press just have an early build or something.

Y'all need to relax.
 
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