How is it not a major issue? In it's current state it certainly is. The people playing these aren't just random consumers who may not even know that there are certain limitations to bluetooth devices. It's causing the controls to be unresponsive for a couple of seconds at a time. That's a big deal. I certainly hope it's something Nintendo is able to fix and/or find it isolated to a small amount of units that they will replace.
Gamexplain Explains the Joy-Con Desyncing Problem
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
How is it not a major issue? In it's current state it certainly is. The people playing these aren't just random consumers who may not even know that there are certain limitations to bluetooth devices. It's causing the controls to be unresponsive for a couple of seconds at a time. That's a big deal. I certainly hope it's something Nintendo is able to fix and/or find it isolated to a small amount of units that they will replace.
It's unplayable for some though
Yeah that's deal breaker territory right there. Normal use should not result in such frequent issues. I want to test this for myself but if I can't even use the joycon grip with the Switch in tv mode, that that is truly fucked up on Nintendo's part.
That explanation doesn't really work for when you're holding the joycon sideways with the strap on, though, like you would in Mario Kart. Surely in that scenario you'd be covering the joycon almost completely since you're holding it with both hands? Why wasn't this caught before if that was the problem?
DrDomVonDoom
Member
I would almost guarentee, some big wigs or marketing guys went. "We need the joycons to hit 20 hours each. and some genius in the room went, well you know what we could do is turn down the Bluetooth strength by a small amount, among this other list of tweaks so we can hit that magic number, low and behold they have or assumed to have all but without this small oversight. :/
I've been thinking about this a lot, I don't know why. Probably because I own stock in Nintendo and don't want to have to send my joy-con in on day 1 for repair. In my opinion, these drop-outs are absolutely unacceptable.
Now we're discussed whether it's a software or hardware issue, but if we consider that it is a hardware problem, it's one of two things:
1. A manufacturing defect
2. A design oversight/flaw
Now, considering about a dozen journalists noticed issues within a couple of days, I can't possibly believe it's a design oversight that no developer or QA noticed.
And if it's a manufacturing defect, why are we to assume it will affect 100% of the hardware units? Is it possible, say, 10% of the units have this defect? What makes us so sure it's a defect in 100% of joy-cons? Perhaps it was just the specific early press Switch's that have issues.
It would help to know if separately purchases joy-cons also have this issue.
The worst case scenario is Nintendo accepts this as a design oversight and tells consumers not to block the controller, sit close the TV, ie; how they should be playing.
The second worst case scenario is a complete recall program for all joy-cons.
I'm suggesting it may be a scenario that only a certain % of Switch units have the hardware defect. It's something that hasn't really been discussed.
The best case scenario is an easy patch fix.
I've definitely put too much thought into this, but hey, what is neogaf for?
Now we're discussed whether it's a software or hardware issue, but if we consider that it is a hardware problem, it's one of two things:
1. A manufacturing defect
2. A design oversight/flaw
Now, considering about a dozen journalists noticed issues within a couple of days, I can't possibly believe it's a design oversight that no developer or QA noticed.
And if it's a manufacturing defect, why are we to assume it will affect 100% of the hardware units? Is it possible, say, 10% of the units have this defect? What makes us so sure it's a defect in 100% of joy-cons? Perhaps it was just the specific early press Switch's that have issues.
It would help to know if separately purchases joy-cons also have this issue.
The worst case scenario is Nintendo accepts this as a design oversight and tells consumers not to block the controller, sit close the TV, ie; how they should be playing.
The second worst case scenario is a complete recall program for all joy-cons.
I'm suggesting it may be a scenario that only a certain % of Switch units have the hardware defect. It's something that hasn't really been discussed.
The best case scenario is an easy patch fix.
I've definitely put too much thought into this, but hey, what is neogaf for?
Some people sensibly pointed out that it occurS in both, but the left one just gets notice more because you use it for movement. It is likely an issue with the signal. Now to hope that it can be solved with a software update and that it is not an inherent signal strength limitation in the hardware.
It's pathetic that that video has so many dislikes. The price of showing a serious issue with a product people are excited about from a company with extremely passionate fans.
I love Nintendo games. I defend my ordering the Switch to my co-workers almost every day. But I'm never going to defend the dumb stuff they do as a company, and I certainly would never defend something like THIS.
Anyway, as I've said, I hope Nintendo is somehow able to fix this with a firmware issue if it's a bluetooth power issue, or they find that it's a problem with a small amount of units that will be replaced. But who knows really.
M_A_C
Member
yea this shows what it's like in Zelda very well. This sucks bigtime.
Peterthumpa
Member
Well, if the worst case scenario is a hardware issue, Nintendo could opt for an unprecedented decision and delay the Switch launch for a month or 2 to recall all the stock back and fix this thing, instead of waiting for the Switch to be in the hands of millions of people.
The video shows they do...and it does.
If it is a manufacturing defect, then the journalists either had an extremely dysfunctional batch or the problem is in fact quite prevalent. A 10% rate of malfunctioning hardware is still a huge issue imo, so I hope Nintendo will come out and say something about it.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
This is absolutely unacceptable and kind of ridiculous on just about every level. It's not like wireless is new technology or anything. This is stuff that we've been working with for decades.
Covering the controller with your hand blocks all signals from being sent?
That's a monumental fuck up. All I can think of is that the joycon is sending out and receiving multiple streams of data at once (input, positional, and maybe even status) but the transmitter inside the joycon is super low power to conserve battery so it sends a relatively short wavelength signal for all the bandwidth its dealing with?
I'm just pulling shit out of my ass to try and figure out how this could have happened.
Covering the controller with your hand blocks all signals from being sent?
That's a monumental fuck up. All I can think of is that the joycon is sending out and receiving multiple streams of data at once (input, positional, and maybe even status) but the transmitter inside the joycon is super low power to conserve battery so it sends a relatively short wavelength signal for all the bandwidth its dealing with?
I'm just pulling shit out of my ass to try and figure out how this could have happened.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Kain-Nosgoth
Member
Wow nintendo.... what the actual fuck?
It will not be a problem for me since i'll play with the pro controller.... but man this is really bad!
Wonder how they'll answer to this issue
It will not be a problem for me since i'll play with the pro controller.... but man this is really bad!
Wonder how they'll answer to this issue
That'd be a nice complementary test as I don't intend to play with joy-cons behind my back too often.
A delay this close to launch would be as bad of a PR disaster imo.
10% is better than 100%
Watching that video, I further question whether the issue GameXplain is showing and the issue others are having are different. In the video Ubertag posted, the way the person is playing Zelda is so...NORMAL. Just holding it like anyone would, not obstructing anything, only 8 feet away from the TV/dock. It makes no logical sense why it's not responding. It's the most worrisome aspect as it could mean a malfunction of the hardware.
The GameXplain test seems more like an explainable Bluetooth problem (completely obstructing the area of the hardware with the mass of a hand), but a problem in its own right, and one that could ALSO be a big issue when dealing with holding the Joy-Cons sideways for 2-player stuff.
The GameXplain test seems more like an explainable Bluetooth problem (completely obstructing the area of the hardware with the mass of a hand), but a problem in its own right, and one that could ALSO be a big issue when dealing with holding the Joy-Cons sideways for 2-player stuff.
That's nice. Others report he signal being fucked at like 5' with their hands resting normally.
I don't think that's possible at this point. The systems have been sent out, stores have them and people are getting them early already.
spazimoose
Member
Guess everyone will just have to buy a pro controller 
Seriously though, antenna design and some RF stuff is half science half black magic. Providing more power (assuming they can change it in firmware) may not be helpful or safe.
I have a feeling this is working as intended. Watch all those commercials again, how far do they sit back from the switch? Japanese living rooms aren't that big.
wired too
Seriously though, antenna design and some RF stuff is half science half black magic. Providing more power (assuming they can change it in firmware) may not be helpful or safe.
I have a feeling this is working as intended. Watch all those commercials again, how far do they sit back from the switch? Japanese living rooms aren't that big.
Switch controller range test:
https://youtu.be/HmRtEdA5OKI
There is big different between joy-con only / put in joy-con grip
Rangero control (25 steps) >joy-con grip (22 steps) >joy-con only (15steps)
Don't know if it better if put on the joy-con strap on joy-con
https://youtu.be/HmRtEdA5OKI
There is big different between joy-con only / put in joy-con grip
Range
ro control (25 steps) >joy-con grip (22 steps) >joy-con only (15steps)Don't know if it better if put on the joy-con strap on joy-con
Yes I'm catching up on the aforementioned video. Weird it's happening in this case, while it worked fine during ww hands-on :-/
Guess everyone will just have to buy a pro controllerwired too
Seriously though, antenna design and some RF stuff is half science half black magic. Providing more power (assuming they can change it in firmware) may not be helpful or safe.
I have a feeling this is working as intended. Watch all those commercials again, how far do they sit back from the switch? Japanese living rooms aren't that big.
Controller drop outs 10' from the TV? Give me a break.
Mohonky
Member
Seems kind of odd, the system was used at a number of events, did no one else experience this at those events, seems weird we're only hearing about it occurring now when surely it should have occurred at the press events, maybe they changed something in the manufacture or they have an actual problem in manufacture?
Guess everyone will just have to buy a pro controllerwired too
Seriously though, antenna design and some RF stuff is half science half black magic. Providing more power (assuming they can change it in firmware) may not be helpful or safe.
I have a feeling this is working as intended. Watch all those commercials again, how far do they sit back from the switch? Japanese living rooms aren't that big.
Come on, dude. Nintendo's intention is to sell you a syncing issue?
That's interesting. Range with the joy-con grip is significantly more than joy-con only, and obviously the pro controller had the most range.
At the events, everyone was in a controlled environment where they were very close to the console itself when playing.
Edit: Apparently not at all events v v
Yes, they did. Someone had a video on YT of him losing signal while playing MK8.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Controlled hands on event meant to drive preorders does not show a hardware problem likely to hurt said preorders? I can say I am shocked... shocked I said
.Donniewahlberg
Banned
I'm kind of two minds on this. On one hand, sitting 10 feet away and putting it behind your back or entirely covering it with your hands, I don't know how often I would run into this. On the other hand, I definitely do not want to have to consider this on a regular basis, or at all really. I just want to sit and play. My TV is roughly six feet from the couch so I guess we'll see. Hopefully they can nip it in the bud so it isn't a problem for anyone under any circumstance.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is just the hardcore fans launch, real launch is in November/December.
Le sigh... will see what the launch unit is :/.
maybe this will give you a little more peace of mind? or did you plan to play a lot with the joy-cons only
?Switch controller range test:
https://youtu.be/HmRtEdA5OKI
There is big different between joy-con only / put in joy-con grip
Range
Don't know if it better if put on the joy-con strap on joy-con
I can see nintendo put out a patch to increase the joy-con signal.
As others already pointed out: distance. I haven't seen any event footage where the players aren't hurled around the console or like 1,5m away from it at most. Seems these dropouts occur regularly starting at 2m or so.
But what the heck though. My BT earphones (wink wink) and smartwatch which is connected via BT works perfectly flawless in the room next door or the room downstairs. How can these have such a pitiful range despite being much bigger than either of the two?
and not fixing it before launch will be a bigger disaster.
Switch controller range test:
https://youtu.be/HmRtEdA5OKI
There is big different between joy-con only / put in joy-con grip
Range
Don't know if it better if put on the joy-con strap on joy-con
ok this virtually confirms there are different transmission levels in effect for the BT radio in the Joycons. All that would be required is a patch to remedy this problem, however you'd probably go from 20 hour battery life to 15-18 maybe. Maybe not, in all honesty, this could be a bug preventing the Joycons from functioning as intended.
NoPiece
Member
Almost 100% chance it is a software issue. They either dialed down the signal strength too far to save battery, or most likely, the power adjusts itself down dynamically, and then isn't adjusting itself back up when it is blocked. Either way it is fixable.
Also, bluetooth is subject to interference from other wireless devices (e.g., cordless phones), so it is going to affect people differently depending on where it is set up, and what other wireless devices are around.
Switch controller range test:
https://youtu.be/HmRtEdA5OKI
There is big different between joy-con only / put in joy-con grip
Range
Don't know if it better if put on the joy-con strap on joy-con
The range in all the controllers is actually surprisingly good.
What is going on here?
Mohonky
Member
Hmmm...I'lll be playing on my PC monitor, rarely use the home theatre these days, so I guess I will be able to get away with it.
panda-zebra
Member
No, but people will definitely briefly occlude them playing games that involve motion/arm swinging. That test was obviously done to demonstrate the extent of the signal dropout.
Personally I do most of my console gaming lying back in bed or at a slight angle but basically the same on a couch. If I as much as bend my knees and raise my quads blocking line of sight, it seems I'm risking connectivity issues.
I guess it's possible Nintendo tried to game battery life review tests and gave journalists a version of the firmware that only uses low power Bluetooth. If they did that it's shitty, but easily fixable.
I'm not convinced they did that to journalists though.
Either way I think the Bluetooth is not strong enough. And I do think it could be possible for a firmware update to increase the Bluetooth strength. Although that 20 hour JoyCon battery life could take a hit.
So right now I'm not going to panic, unless we start hearing it's impossible to increase bluetooth strength via a firmware update.
Yeah, right now I'm leaning towards the position that this is a fixable problem.