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Gas prices continue to soar

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PEAK OIL is coming soon. Some of the alarmists are predicting $100+ for a barrel of oil within a year and others are saying quite the opposite.
 
is peak oil a real situation that is likely to (or has recently) happened? from the reading I did on it, it seems realistic and grounded in logic, but is it really the stuff of doomsayers or what?

EDIT: didn't see the post above, still relevant though. Time to start learning to farm.....
 
Deku said:
I think the silver lining is, it will eventually get North Americans off their SUVs and get a real practical appreciation of smaller cars and fuel efficiency as well as drive technological innovation and acceptance of hybrids. There's absolutely no excuse for soccer moms to be hogging the road and crashing into buses in busy downtown streets on an SUV when they could be zipping around on a smaller more fuel efficient car where the frequent starts and stops wouldn't waste so much fuel.

And yes, I was on a bus in downtown Vancouver when a soccer mom crashed into a Bus on her SUV and tried to blame it on the bus driver.



That's a simplistic analysis. The oil companies also took a hit with the low fuel costs in the 90s but no one seem to mind then.

Most of them have to get their fuel from somewhere to process in their refineries, it's not like they get the oil for free and make a fortune off of it.

That said, since a lot of the commodity business has to do with futures contracts where prices are locked in ahead of time, rising price of oil means contracts that were locked in when prices were expected to be lower would yield considerable profit for the oil companies. But it's not really their fault since prices could just easily fall and they'd be stuck with a bunch contracts where they are supposed to buy crude at higher than the spot price on the market.

The real driver of rising oil prices is limited supply or more precisely, limited capacity to raise supply and China's surging demand for oil.

supplydemandshift.gif
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Agreed. I'm surprised with so many college educated students on this board, this was not brought up sooner or more often... :/ It's simple economics. Few stop to think about the consequences of lowered gas prices.
 
I don't recall it ever being down to around 50 cents in my lifetime. I think it was in the 80 cent range around 1990 in Seattle.
 
its not even like you need to use hybrids or fuel cell cars. Just drive a fucking diesel focus. Or even a petrol focus. Heck, anything that does 25+ MPG. Think of what you could do with the extra money - might even raise consumer spending and help out the economy. Not to mention help persuade US car makers to make more efficient cars, which might then be more exportable.
 
Yeah 50 cents is pretty damn cheap, in 94 when i got my license i remember it being 80-85. Back then i could put $5 in the tank and easily get anywhere i needed to go during the week, weekends i'd make friends chip in a couple bucks for gas since i was the only one with a car and i had to drive everyone's ass around :lol.

To this day the 2 things i've seen inflate more than anything are the prices of gas and a pack of smokes. Could pick up a pack of marlboro's for $1.75 when i started smoking, when i quit back in january it was like $3.25 or something.
 
The whole situation regarding modern western society is one of such self-indulgence and arrogance that the populations of western countries have become so convinced, so self-assured their societies and lifestyles are based upon such a foundation of solid fortified stone that they are essentially eternal. That the status quo of western dominance and affluence will never alter, shake or waver and nothing, besides those dastardly 'terrorists' can ever undermine that foundation.

We sit high and pretty at the peak of our civilisation so self-assured and arrogant at our dominion over the world that the idea that it may one day come crashing down is such an unthinkable concept to be seriously considered and debated. And yet we have one thing in common with every other civilisation that ever sat high and pretty and fell apart soon thereafter, that despite our technological advantage and evolved social complexity our civilisation like all proceeding societies still has at its basis an insatiable appetite for a raw natural resource; the basic need of an energy source to feed its very prosperity and very survival and in the absence of which neither are feasible.

The bane of modern civilisation is oil.
 
xabre said:
The whole situation regarding modern western society is one of such self-indulgence and arrogance that the populations of western countries have become so convinced, so self-assured their societies and lifestyles are based upon such a foundation of solid fortified stone that they are essentially eternal. That the status quo of western dominance and affluence will never alter, shake or waver and nothing, besides those dastardly 'terrorists' can ever undermine that foundation.

We sit high and pretty at the peak of our civilisation so self-assured and arrogant at our dominion over the world that the idea that it may one day come crashing down is such an unthinkable concept to be seriously considered and debated. And yet we have one thing in common with every other civilisation that ever sat high and pretty and fell apart soon thereafter, that despite our technological advantage and evolved social complexity our civilisation like all proceeding societies still has at its basis an insatiable appetite for a raw natural resource; the basic need of an energy source to feed its very prosperity and very survival and in the absence of which neither are feasible.

The bane of modern civilisation is oil.
Click to expand...

I agree with this generally, but would like to add that we now actually know enough about how the collapse is likely to happen, yet at the same time, can do little to stop it -even though we know we have the know-how to do so. Vested interests and self-delusion look to be our downfall.

...
 
Seven years ago when I worked at EB gas was 97 cents a gallon. Yesterday I paid 2.30 a gallon for the cheap shit. If it continues at that pace car companies and the airlines are going to be hurting. It really sucks because I drive 40 miles each way to work.
 
Jeffahn said:
I agree with this generally, but would like to add that we now actually know enough about how the collapse is likely to happen, yet at the same time, can do little to stop it -even though we know we have the know-how to do so. Vested interests and self-delusion look to be our downfall.

...
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You kids crack me up :D
 
Raoul Duke said:
That's entirely our fault, though. The boonies is one thing, but suburbia is going to be remembered as the most wasteful, untenable way of life from the 20th century.
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I agree. Suburbia has done more harm than good:

1) The society of acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Many of those people that live in nice houses more often than not only make around $60-80k and own $300k+ houses. Add in an SUV and all kinds of high tech gadgets. Most people who live like this are living in hell pretty much, paycheck to paycheck as they can barely meet their minimum payments.

2) The society of urban apathy. The cities rot from the inside out, literally. Instead new funds from transportation now must go to creating new sprawling roads for the growing suburbia while the urban areas are riddled with potholes and bridge projects that take forever to fix because they're low priorities. Then they want excellent schools but not on their dime. Its like Reaganomics never left these people, even though they were little kids when Reagan was President.

3) The society of unrealistic expectations. Suburbia is a culture mired in materialism, a who has what sub-society. Children more often than not, continue this mindset. Many suburban girls want no less than a slave for a boyfriend, someone who caters to her all the time. The suburban boys drive brand new cars and expect to coast through life, hoping to automatically get a high paying job because they are suburban, they deserve better than the rest of the people.

I'm done with this rant.
 
Suikoguy said:
Yep, while it comes with a ton of drawbacks.. I think its the only thing thats going to get us off our dependance on oil. I truely hope that billions of dollars are poured into research of new energy production technologies (Lets get fusion working alright?), to the point that there is a scientist shortage :)
Click to expand...



Just as an historical note - wars have started for energy reasons.
 
Haha, I dont have to worry about the cost of oil. It costs about $20 to fill up both tanks in a Toyota lancruiser. Im not quite sure but here the cost of one litre of oil is the same as a bottle of water.
 
...oil has gone up another buck per barrel today, topping out at $66 a barrel.

The thing with this shit, touching on suburbia, is that at least in the inner-cities, there tends to be a mass transportation system of some sort in most of them. But you don't have that kind of thing in Suburbia.

I'm wondering how long its gonna take for someone in the Big 3 to realize the money taht could be made by getting contracts for bullet trains and stuff across the country. Ford could take in a shitload if they started to build advanced train systems across southeast michigan, from the contract to maintenance and everything.

I wish that the US had mass transit down as well as Europe seems to.
 
whytemyke said:
...oil has gone up another buck per barrel today, topping out at $66 a barrel.

The thing with this shit, touching on suburbia, is that at least in the inner-cities, there tends to be a mass transportation system of some sort in most of them. But you don't have that kind of thing in Suburbia.

I'm wondering how long its gonna take for someone in the Big 3 to realize the money taht could be made by getting contracts for bullet trains and stuff across the country. Ford could take in a shitload if they started to build advanced train systems across southeast michigan, from the contract to maintenance and everything.

I wish that the US had mass transit down as well as Europe seems to.
Click to expand...

Advanced train systems won't happen in this country until the TERRIBLE quality of the actual rails themselves is increased. We can't do high speed bullet trains across our country because most of the tracks are in terrible condition.

Anyway I mostly love these threads because of the "it's all suburbia's fault" rants that creep in to them.

And have I noticed the gas prices... no... not yet, but that's cause we don't live paycheck to paycheck so while we see an increase in costs associated with gas it hasn't changed our daily schedule.
 
SteveMeister said:
You kids crack me up :D
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Let me clarify:

I can't see the future, but the situation is that something needs to be done in terms of climate change and the whole kaboodle, and can't say things can't change tomorrow, but vested interests stand in the way and it'll probably take a pretty big wake-up call before (by which time it may already be too late) to set the wheels in motion.

...
 
The Experiment said:
I agree. Suburbia has done more harm than good:

1) The society of acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Many of those people that live in nice houses more often than not only make around $60-80k and own $300k+ houses. Add in an SUV and all kinds of high tech gadgets. Most people who live like this are living in hell pretty much, paycheck to paycheck as they can barely meet their minimum payments.
Click to expand...

The "majority"? Are you sure about that? And what's so bad about being in debt? If you're locked in to a 30-year mortgage at a fixed rate you might be "hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt", but you're also certainly building a much more stable financial future than someone else renting their living space. And for the record - making 60-80k is more than enough to enjoy living in a 300k dollar house. You're lucky if you can find a house that cheap within 50 miles of the urban center of any major coastal city.

I'm not going to even try to deconstruct the rest of your post because you sound like some barely 20-year old pissed off metropolitan college kid with no grasp of reality. Most cities try to pass ordinances that restrict people from living out in the suburbs and driving in. In metro New York I believe you have to pay an extra tax if you live outside the city but work inside the city. Boston is attempting to force development along mass transit /commuter rail lines to decrease the sizable congestion that chokes the highways through the cities. The worst city is honestly Washington, DC where the government supplies free parking for a majority of its downtown workers. Suburbia can work through intelligent urban planning and development coupled with well-designed mass transit. The problem is that we're not doing enough to encourage it. Sitting around bitching about the "evils" of suburban culture accomplishes nothing, and rejects the incredibly sizable benefits that accompany "growing up" in a suburban setting allow.
 
The problem with Suburbia(this is mostly addressed to Darien and Nerevar) is that it was a terrible misallocation of NONRENEWALBE resources. Using all of that oil in A) constructing cookie cutter houses dozens of miles outside of urban centers and then B) travelling from suburbia to the city to work and back again is really stupid. People should just live where they work. Doing so gives you more of an identification with where you work AND live, plus it eliminates and "us and them" mentality that has helped to further seperate America when it needs to come together.

And Darien, I love your cavalier attitude. "We have money in the bank and blah blah blah." It's amusing to me because you generally are a pretty intelligent fella from what I can tell, but are using an extremely self-centered, short sighted viewpoint on this issue. Is living outside of the city that important in the long run? What about your children? Can you guarantee that the situation will be the same 15 or 20 years from now? That your money will still be good or even there?
 
Nerevar said:
The "majority"? Are you sure about that? And what's so bad about being in debt? If you're locked in to a 30-year mortgage at a fixed rate you might be "hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt", but you're also certainly building a much more stable financial future than someone else renting their living space. And for the record - making 60-80k is more than enough to enjoy living in a 300k dollar house. You're lucky if you can find a house that cheap within 50 miles of the urban center of any major coastal city.

I'm not going to even try to deconstruct the rest of your post because you sound like some barely 20-year old pissed off metropolitan college kid with no grasp of reality. Most cities try to pass ordinances that restrict people from living out in the suburbs and driving in. In metro New York I believe you have to pay an extra tax if you live outside the city but work inside the city. Boston is attempting to force development along mass transit /commuter rail lines to decrease the sizable congestion that chokes the highways through the cities. The worst city is honestly Washington, DC where the government supplies free parking for a majority of its downtown workers. Suburbia can work through intelligent urban planning and development coupled with well-designed mass transit. The problem is that we're not doing enough to encourage it. Sitting around bitching about the "evils" of suburban culture accomplishes nothing, and rejects the incredibly sizable benefits that accompany "growing up" in a suburban setting allow.
Click to expand...

I'm not really pissed off. I just don't care. Also, someone shit in my cereal this morning.
 
Raoul Duke said:
The problem with Suburbia(this is mostly addressed to Darien and Nerevar) is that it was a terrible misallocation of NONRENEWALBE resources. Using all of that oil in A) constructing cookie cutter houses dozens of miles outside of urban centers and then B) travelling from suburbia to the city to work and back again is really stupid. People should just live where they work.
Click to expand...

That's the other extreme - to pack people like sardines into cramped living areas in order for them to all fit in city areas. That argument also assumes that where people work is a place where people could/should live.
 
Raoul Duke said:
That's entirely our fault, though. The boonies is one thing, but suburbia is going to be remembered as the most wasteful, untenable way of life from the 20th century.
Click to expand...

And they're STILL clearing land on all sides of Atlanta. I'd much rather wait a few minutes for public tran than sitting in rush hour traffic for 20 fucking miles.
 
Gas went up another $.10 a gallon today, making it a $.20 raise/gallon raise in less than a week. This is fucking obnoxious.

Let's push biodiesel and ethanol. Maybe it'll keep the upper midwest afloat after we got fucked hard with CAFTA (sugar).
 
I swear, the fucking buses in our city seem to pollute/eat fuel more than if every passenger was riding thier own economy cars. :P

I suppose they're still cheaper though.
 
pestul said:
I swear, the fucking buses in our city seem to pollute/eat fuel more than if every passenger was riding thier own economy cars. :P

I suppose they're still cheaper though.
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A lot of buses in many major cities are biodiesel and more cities are looking at electric until fuel cells become reasonable.
 
The way the gas price is rising so rapidly is disgusting. Where's our governments pressure on OPEC to increase output? I think it has less to do with supply and demand, and more with MAKING SURE there's a lower supply.

A few already extremely wealthy people are rolling in their money and laughing at all of us.

You know I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but think it has anything to do with having oil men in the White House? They have a lot more to gain than the rest of us shlubs.

I really can't say how this will affect me if this keeps going up. I commute 40 miles to and from every day for my work and it kills me to fill my tank every week.
 
Higher gas prices are a bitter pill to swallow, but it is worth it in the name of the development of a renewable replacement. If gas were $1.20/gal, the world would drink it until it's gone, with no 'exit strategy' created until it's way too late.
 
mashoutposse said:
Higher gas prices are a bitter pill to swallow, but it is worth it in the name of the development of a renewable replacement. If gas were $1.20/gal, the world would drink it until it's gone, with no 'exit strategy' created until it's way too late.
Click to expand...

yeah. People who are upset about the gas prices probably just want them lower so they can fill up their Hummer's so they can make the 5 minute drive to Starbucks and buy a $6.00 coffee.
 
I don't think I'll ever get a car. I might get a driver's license. It might come in handy.

Hooray for bikes and public transport!!
 
Ninja Scooter said:
yeah. People who are upset about the gas prices probably just want them lower so they can fill up their Hummer's so they can make the 5 minute drive to Starbucks and buy a $6.00 coffee.
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:)

It is perfectly natural to be uncomfortable with high prices. Personally, I don't go to work to enrich CEOs and Middle Easterners.

Ultimately, I'm not terribly worried about the inevitable fossil fuel energy crisis. I have faith in the entrepreneurial spirit of this nation -- I believe that the people in a position to develop a truly viable alternative to crude realize that a renewable replacement would make them rich beyond their absolute wildest dreams. For this reason, I am sure that there are people out there working very hard to fill the upcoming need for a gasoline substitute.
 
In regards to the topic of suburbia. Anybody who lives in southeastern Wisconsin know that the suburban communities (especially waukesha) are now paying the ultimate price. Their taxes are increasing rapidily but most imporatantly they are running dry on water. Milwaukee will not let the western communites get lake michigan water (mostly because they're over some basin, partly because they are repubublican dominated communities). Gas around here is 2.62 a gallon average. A suburbanite from waukesha going to his job in milwaukee is likely to travel some 40-60 miles round trip. But i dont really care because i live in the city.
 
mashoutposse said:
Ultimately, I'm not terribly worried about the inevitable fossil fuel energy crisis. I have faith in the entrepreneurial spirit of this nation -- I believe that the people in a position to develop a truly viable alternative to crude realize that a renewable replacement would make them rich beyond their absolute wildest dreams. For this reason, I am sure that there are people out there working very hard to fill the upcoming need for a gasoline substitute.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be terribly worried about this country, per se, but the non-first world that's addicted to oil and can't afford to switch. Then there's China which is gearing up an oil-consuming economy right now. Things are going to get ugly one way or the other.
 
Raoul Duke said:
The problem with Suburbia(this is mostly addressed to Darien and Nerevar) is that it was a terrible misallocation of NONRENEWALBE resources. Using all of that oil in A) constructing cookie cutter houses dozens of miles outside of urban centers and then B) travelling from suburbia to the city to work and back again is really stupid. People should just live where they work. Doing so gives you more of an identification with where you work AND live, plus it eliminates and "us and them" mentality that has helped to further seperate America when it needs to come together.
Click to expand...

Is that any of your damn bussiness where we choose to live?

And Darien, I love your cavalier attitude. "We have money in the bank and blah blah blah." It's amusing to me because you generally are a pretty intelligent fella from what I can tell, but are using an extremely self-centered, short sighted viewpoint on this issue. Is living outside of the city that important in the long run? What about your children? Can you guarantee that the situation will be the same 15 or 20 years from now? That your money will still be good or even there?
Click to expand...

Can you guarantee you wont slip on a bar of soup and break your neck the next morning? By your logic since we're gonna die anyway lets just kill ourselves now and save a lifetime worth of having to earn a living.
 
mashoutposse said:
Higher gas prices are a bitter pill to swallow, but it is worth it in the name of the development of a renewable replacement. If gas were $1.20/gal, the world would drink it until it's gone, with no 'exit strategy' created until it's way too late.
Click to expand...

I'll just point out that we haven't made any significant changes in our energy policy other than to say we'll pursue alternative fuel sources. Instead we're spending hundreds of billions to feed the system as it sits today and a miniscule fraction of that value on alternative fuels. Higher prices don't appear to be accelerating our move towards alternatives nor does it appear to be causing consumers to alter their abilities. As usual, the people on the low end of the salary spectrum are the people who are really getting screwed. People beyond a certain point are still able to 'eat' fuel prices at this price point.
 
The Experiment said:
I agree. Suburbia has done more harm than good:

1) The society of acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Many of those people that live in nice houses more often than not only make around $60-80k and own $300k+ houses. Add in an SUV and all kinds of high tech gadgets. Most people who live like this are living in hell pretty much, paycheck to paycheck as they can barely meet their minimum payments.

2) The society of urban apathy. The cities rot from the inside out, literally. Instead new funds from transportation now must go to creating new sprawling roads for the growing suburbia while the urban areas are riddled with potholes and bridge projects that take forever to fix because they're low priorities. Then they want excellent schools but not on their dime. Its like Reaganomics never left these people, even though they were little kids when Reagan was President.

3) The society of unrealistic expectations. Suburbia is a culture mired in materialism, a who has what sub-society. Children more often than not, continue this mindset. Many suburban girls want no less than a slave for a boyfriend, someone who caters to her all the time. The suburban boys drive brand new cars and expect to coast through life, hoping to automatically get a high paying job because they are suburban, they deserve better than the rest of the people.

I'm done with this rant.
Click to expand...

So little of this rant is based in reality that the missus and I can't believe you actually believe this.

First I need to ask what is your background that you are able to make these statements based on city/county funding for transporation, then turn around and act like you what goes on in local schools and on the local teenage dating scene?

Raoul Duke said:
The problem with Suburbia(this is mostly addressed to Darien and Nerevar) is that it was a terrible misallocation of NONRENEWALBE resources. Using all of that oil in A) constructing cookie cutter houses dozens of miles outside of urban centers and then B) travelling from suburbia to the city to work and back again is really stupid. People should just live where they work. Doing so gives you more of an identification with where you work AND live, plus it eliminates and "us and them" mentality that has helped to further seperate America when it needs to come together.
Click to expand...
Who is ths us and them you are talking about? Different cultures? Different nationalities? We have all of that in our suburban community, and my identification of where I live and work is just fine thank you very much.

And Darien, I love your cavalier attitude. "We have money in the bank and blah blah blah." It's amusing to me because you generally are a pretty intelligent fella from what I can tell, but are using an extremely self-centered, short sighted viewpoint on this issue. Is living outside of the city that important in the long run? What about your children? Can you guarantee that the situation will be the same 15 or 20 years from now? That your money will still be good or even there?
Click to expand...
Um it's not blah, blah, blah when too much of this country IS based on living from paycheck to paycheck WE are concerned with living TODAY AND TOMORROW, and that is what savings and diverse investments are all about. We don't live paycheck to paycheck because we realize that it's a dead in... and lord as for our neighborhood the people on our right side(2 houses) own their own business, the people on our left (1) does the same, no one in our neighborhood lives paycheck to paycheck. Living in an area that is safe for my child to grow up, interact with all different types of peoples from all different backgrounds with less of chance of gun and drug related violence is damn well very important. No one can guarantee ANY city or country area will be the same in the time period you've put forth.

Your arrogance in basing society's woes on suburban living is beyond stupid. Why not put the problem where it really is? Why not talk about the grossly uneven distribution of wealth in this country? Inner city crime is a huge issue, and yet you're complaining about funds being syphoned away concerning transportation issues? My god there are so many more problems that can be identified with REAL issues... REAL solutions.....

Every time you start this crazy suburban living is evil shit in threads I sit back and wonder WTF are you thinking? I normally sit back and watch without responding because it's much easier to let it pass... but this time I showed your posts to the missus and she couldn't believe it.

I wish I had time to sit down with you and hash out all the real problems in this country... crime, lack of public funding for social programs, poverty, too much wealth in the hands of too few, lack of corporate and political accountability, but I just don't have the patience anymore....

So once again I'll go back to just sitting here and shaking my head in wonderment...
 
SteveMeister said:
You kids crack me up :D
Click to expand...

What cracks me up is the arrogant indoctrinated self-delusion so prevalent in modern society; the kind that you seem to be expressing with your hit and run comment because you lack the intellect to respond in depth to our posts. In regards to this topic and rising oil prices it comes down to a delusional belief that oil prices simply mean higher petrol prices and nothing more, yet what is often not appreciated is the sheer scale of absolute dependency modern society has on cheap and abundant energy. So I have a little research project for you, go read up on the myriad of industries and social infrastructures dependant upon oil and oil by-products.

You can start with the most important, with the dependency of modern industrial agriculture on oil -

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/portal/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=563
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html
http://www.energybulletin.net/4101.html

Hope you're still cracking up.
 
DarienA said:
Every time you start this crazy suburban living is evil shit in threads I sit back and wonder WTF are you thinking? I normally sit back and watch without responding because it's much easier to let it pass... but this time I showed your posts to the missus and she couldn't believe it.
Click to expand...

The point is that modern suburbia is a horribly inefficient means of social organisation.

I suggest you watch the following documentary - http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
 
DarienA said:
Who is ths us and them you are talking about? Different cultures? Different nationalities? We have all of that in our suburban community, and my identification of where I live and work is just fine thank you very much.
Click to expand...

The "us and them" in that example was urban vs. suburban dwellers. In the Atlanta area the schism is very pronounced- suburbanites want to be able to work in the big city and collect a decent paycheck, but don't want to put money back into the city they work in because they choose to live out in the burbs. Programs wither without funds and it starts a vicious cycle of bitching and sniping.


Um it's not blah, blah, blah when too much of this country IS based on living from paycheck to paycheck WE are concerned with living TODAY AND TOMORROW, and that is what savings and diverse investments are all about. We don't live paycheck to paycheck because we realize that it's a dead in... and lord as for our neighborhood the people on our right side(2 houses) own their own business, the people on our left (1) does the same, no one in our neighborhood lives paycheck to paycheck. Living in an area that is safe for my child to grow up, interact with all different types of peoples from all different backgrounds with less of chance of gun and drug related violence is damn well very important. No one can guarantee ANY city or country area will be the same in the time period you've put forth.

Your arrogance in basing society's woes on suburban living is beyond stupid. Why not put the problem where it really is? Why not talk about the grossly uneven distribution of wealth in this country? Inner city crime is a huge issue, and yet you're complaining about funds being syphoned away concerning transportation issues? My god there are so many more problems that can be identified with REAL issues... REAL solutions.....

Every time you start this crazy suburban living is evil shit in threads I sit back and wonder WTF are you thinking? I normally sit back and watch without responding because it's much easier to let it pass... but this time I showed your posts to the missus and she couldn't believe it.

I wish I had time to sit down with you and hash out all the real problems in this country... crime, lack of public funding for social programs, poverty, too much wealth in the hands of too few, lack of corporate and political accountability, but I just don't have the patience anymore....

So once again I'll go back to just sitting here and shaking my head in wonderment...
Click to expand...

Shake your head all you want. Advocating a non-tenable form of life(suburbia) as a long term way of life is short sighted and ultimately ruinuous to the country and mankind in general. But what would I know, I don't have a large savings account.
 
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