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[KingV]

I think the silver lining is, it will eventually get North Americans off their SUVs and get a real practical appreciation of smaller cars and fuel efficiency as well as drive technological innovation and acceptance of hybrids. There's absolutely no excuse for soccer moms to be hogging the road and crashing into buses in busy downtown streets on an SUV when they could be zipping around on a smaller more fuel efficient car where the frequent starts and stops wouldn't waste so much fuel.

And yes, I was on a bus in downtown Vancouver when a soccer mom crashed into a Bus on her SUV and tried to blame it on the bus driver.



That's a simplistic analysis. The oil companies also took a hit with the low fuel costs in the 90s but no one seem to mind then.

Most of them have to get their fuel from somewhere to process in their refineries, it's not like they get the oil for free and make a fortune off of it.

That said, since a lot of the commodity business has to do with futures contracts where prices are locked in ahead of time, rising price of oil means contracts that were locked in when prices were expected to be lower would yield considerable profit for the oil companies. But it's not really their fault since prices could just easily fall and they'd be stuck with a bunch contracts where they are supposed to buy crude at higher than the spot price on the market.

The real driver of rising oil prices is limited supply or more precisely, limited capacity to raise supply and China's surging demand for oil.

You're not going to see widespread acceptance of hybrids for a long time. 1) the gas mileage in real world situations is not as good as the EPA tests suggest and 2) the premiums you pay for the hybrid technology and presumably maintenance (most of these cars haven't been around long enough to really say for certain how long those batteries lives are) are high enoug that gas would have to be a lot more expensive than it is even now for the consumer to actually save money over a non-hybrid version of a similar model over the expected ownership of the car.

 

[MrAngryFace]

You know whats wrong with society. People suck. People are greedy fucks who feel entitled to the good life without any actual work involved. So they get fucking credit cards. It doesnt matter WHERE they live, they do it in ANY fucking climate. And you know what, yes, its all gonna fucking crash on our heads. Yes suburbia will look worse off cause it probably has the most to lose, but we're all fucking losers in this game of American living.

We buy too much, eat too much and demand too much. Its bullshit. Finger pointing is fucking stupid, fuck you whores who think its anyones fault. The entire country is all fucking down the fuck shit hell damn bullshit creek and there's hobos at the end waiting to rape us up the butt and give our jobs to central americans.

 

[KingV]

I agree. Suburbia has done more harm than good:

1) The society of acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Many of those people that live in nice houses more often than not only make around $60-80k and own $300k+ houses. Add in an SUV and all kinds of high tech gadgets. Most people who live like this are living in hell pretty much, paycheck to paycheck as they can barely meet their minimum payments.

Man, I hear that. I wanted to buy a house recently when I moved out to WA, and damn I can't afford anything in a decent neighborhood. As it is, I'm living with two roommates in a nice place, with a good set up, but my $50k/year was really only going to get me into a double wide without eating huge huge house payments.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Apartments are the way to go anyway. I have a nice one, fuck houses!

 

[Shouta]

I really wish we had well developed mass transit systems in the major cities in this country. It'd make travel so much easier and convenient. It's the one thing I liked the most in Japan, such an incredible set of mass transit systems. It was actually less convenient to drive somewhere than it was to take a bus, subway, or train most places. The only thing that bothered me slightly was the price per trip but even that wasn't too bad.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Yeah that sounds smart, but didnt you see Batman Begins?

 

[Shouta]

Nope.

 

[MrAngryFace]

*GASP*

 

[Triumph]

I really wish we had well developed mass transit systems in the major cities in this country. It'd make travel so much easier and convenient. It's the one thing I liked the most in Japan, such an incredible set of mass transit systems. It was actually less convenient to drive somewhere than it was to take a bus, subway, or train most places. The only thing that bothered me slightly was the price per trip but even that wasn't too bad.

Not as profitable for the auto makers.

And add me to the *gasp* column too. Go see Batman Begins! Best comic book movie evar.

 

[Macam]

Crude Oil Prices Surge Past $66 a Barrel

 

[xabre]

Oil prices are almost 50 percent higher than a year ago, but they would need to surpass $90 a barrel to exceed the inflation-adjusted peak set in 1980.

That seems to be a common phrase and it won't be long before it's history.

 

[B'z-chan]

Crude Oil Prices Surge Past $66 a Barrel

Just saw some gas prices up the block a few minutes ago geting ready for the morning crowd. Thinking the prices havent gone up. 2.92 for regular gas. You dont want to know how much premium is.

I've got two legs thank you god.

 

[Attack You]

This thread inspired me to figure out Columbia, SC's bus system. Trying to get from my place to Tech requires a piddly five-minute walk and riding two lines at length for a little over 50 minutes total - for what's really a fifteen-minute drive. But, it's only two dollars round trip. Unfortunately, if I miss a bus, it's a fucking hour before the next one. Hrm. I'm gonna dick around with public transit one week and see if I can keep myself amused/entertained/busy/whatever between my large gaps in classes to the point of this being tolerable.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Just saw some gas prices up the block a few minutes ago geting ready for the morning crowd. Thinking the prices havent gone up. 2.92 for regular gas. You dont want to know how much premium is.

I've got two legs thank you god.

Heh. The gas station down the street from my job was selling regular gas for $2.95 last week. Its $2.99 now. Mid-grade is $3.14. Supreme is $3.24.

This is in Silver Spring, MD (a suburb near Washington DC)

 

[mrklaw]

This thread inspired me to figure out Columbia, SC's bus system. Trying to get from my place to Tech requires a piddly five-minute walk and riding two lines at length for a little over 50 minutes total - for what's really a fifteen-minute drive. But, it's only two dollars round trip. Unfortunately, if I miss a bus, it's a fucking hour before the next one. Hrm. I'm gonna dick around with public transit one week and see if I can keep myself amused/entertained/busy/whatever between my large gaps in classes to the point of this being tolerable.

Good for you.

Also, work out how much you think you'd spend on gas if you drove, just to help you keep motivated. If you think you could get rid of your car completely, work out how much that would save you too.

 

[Attack You]

I was just in MD a few weeks ago. The transit system for D.C. and parts around impressed the hell out of me. I could get to anywhere of interest on that damned thing without even thinking about it. I'd probably be more of an outgoing person if I lived around there.

 

[sefskillz]

Man, I hear that. I wanted to buy a house recently when I moved out to WA, and damn I can't afford anything in a decent neighborhood. As it is, I'm living with two roommates in a nice place, with a good set up, but my $50k/year was really only going to get me into a double wide without eating huge huge house payments.

I'd say if you could make the payments at 25% of your income, you would be aces. Once you pay off the 20 on your 80/20 loan, your monthly mortgage will decrease quite a bit. The only reason I'm not entirely disagreeing with your decision is because the housing bubble is deflating.

 

[Attack You]

Good for you.

Also, work out how much you think you'd spend on gas if you drove, just to help you keep motivated. If you think you could get rid of your car completely, work out how much that would save you too.

Shit, I already know it would cost me more than two dollars in gas to get to Tech and back each day. Honestly, I've been looking for a way to ditch my ride for years, but there was no real alternative. Even what I'm proposing above will test me - or, test my tolerance for inconvenience. The fees, payments, insurance always nibbled at my soul and now the gas prices are eating at my low-maintenance lifestyle. And, fuck, let someone drive me around for a change while I play my games or read.

Just got off the phone with my nephew. Tech won't let him go to a campus that's close to his place, so now he's stuck taking the bus out to the campus I'm going to since he has zero interest in acquiring a license/car. Actually, he's preferred walking around a lot since he got his MP3 player. He might be on to something...

 

[SteveMeister]

Rant.

If you can afford a Hummer H2, you can afford a small, high gas mileage car to use when commuting to work -- BY YOURSELF -- and use the H3 for weekends and when you need to cart people & stuff around.

/Rant.

 

[DarienA]

The "us and them" in that example was urban vs. suburban dwellers. In the Atlanta area the schism is very pronounced- suburbanites want to be able to work in the big city and collect a decent paycheck, but don't want to put money back into the city they work in because they choose to live out in the burbs. Programs wither without funds and it starts a vicious cycle of bitching and sniping.

So you've used one city as an example of the ills for the entire nation. Brilliant. I haven't seen this issue in Baltimore City... as a matter of fact there's a pretty strong resurgence going on there in terms of bringing folks back in from the county... low income towers have been knocked down, affordable housing is being built in the city, lots of revitailzation planning going on for those low income areas and for downtown in attracting new businesses and customers.... there's no us them mentality to be seen there and I lived in Baltimore City for almost 10 years, I'd know.

Shake your head all you want. Advocating a non-tenable form of life(suburbia) as a long term way of life is short sighted and ultimately ruinuous to the country and mankind in general. But what would I know, I don't have a large savings account.

Then get one, it's not very hard, spend less, save more. Problem solved. If my living in the suburbs pisses you off and any other folks in this thread off... then that makes me very happy.

And yes A You... the Metro in DC is very well done... Baltimore? Well they've had some issues over the years, but they are trying.

 

[Gregory]

There are people starving to death in many parts of the world.

 

[Phoenix]

Rant.

If you can afford a Hummer H2, you can afford a small, high gas mileage car to use when commuting to work -- BY YOURSELF -- and use the H3 for weekends and when you need to cart people & stuff around.

/Rant.

You assume that the people who have these vehicles can actually afford to own them Many of these folks are in debt up to their eyeballs and are a paycheck away from having to declare bankruptcy. They barely have 401k funds, they have burned through any equity they might have had, and they have thousands of dollars in credit card debt. Many of these folks are 'living the image' but can't actually afford it.

 

[SteveMeister]

You assume that the people who have these vehicles can actually afford to own them Many of these folks are in debt up to their eyeballs and are a paycheck away from having to declare bankruptcy. They barely have 401k funds, they have burned through any equity they might have had, and they have thousands of dollars in credit card debt. Many of these folks are 'living the image' but can't actually afford it.

Yeah, like that one commercial with the guy saying with a fake smile -- "I'm in debt up to my eyeballs. Somebody please help me."

 

[Phoenix]

And yes A You... the Metro in DC is very well done... Baltimore? Well they've had some issues over the years, but they are trying.

The DC metro transportation system is the pinnacle of mass transit in any city that I've had to live in (and I've been through a few). You really only need enough gas to get to the metro and that thing runs so often that unless you just wilfully refuse to ride mass transit because its 'below you' or something, you can absolutely get by with just the gas it takes to get you to and from the metro.

Atlanta on the other hand...

Would have been nice to have a 286 billion dollar mass transit bill :'(

 

[Phoenix]

There are people starving to death in many parts of the world.

I'll be sure to send them a gallon of 93 octane? You sure you're in the right thread?

 

[MrAngryFace]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!`

 

[SteveMeister]

The DC metro transportation system is the pinnacle of mass transit in any city that I've had to live in (and I've been through a few). You really only need enough gas to get to the metro and that thing runs so often that unless you just wilfully refuse to ride mass transit because its 'below you' or something, you can absolutely get by with just the gas it takes to get you to and from the metro.

Atlanta on the other hand...

Would have been nice to have a 286 billion dollar mass transit bill :'(

While there's a Metro station very close to work, the closest rail station to my house is 18 miles away. My commute is 29 miles each way. So in my case I wouldn't be saving much gas, plus the traffic patterns are worse than my commute route going to and from the Metro stations, so it'd take 30 minutes at best.. In addition, I'd pick up the Orange line in Virginia, but my office is at the North West end of the Red line. So I'd have to ride 20-30 minutes in to DC to Metro Center, switch to the Red Line, and then another 30-40 minute ride to Shady Grove. Then I'd have a 15 minute ride from the Metro station to work. Grand total: 95-115 minute commute in the best circumstances, vs a 45-55 minute commute driving.

They're planning to build metro rail through Tyson's Corner and up the Dulles Toll road -- but that's not going to be available for quite a long time, and the duration is still a problem.

So why don't I move closer to work? Because housing is too expensive.

That said, at least I don't drive an SUV back & forth.

 

[Triumph]

So you've used one city as an example of the ills for the entire nation. Brilliant. I haven't seen this issue in Baltimore City... as a matter of fact there's a pretty strong resurgence going on there in terms of bringing folks back in from the county... low income towers have been knocked down, affordable housing is being built in the city, lots of revitailzation planning going on for those low income areas and for downtown in attracting new businesses and customers.... there's no us them mentality to be seen there and I lived in Baltimore City for almost 10 years, I'd know.

You counter my using one city as an example by using one city as another example. Equally brilliant!

Then get one, it's not very hard, spend less, save more. Problem solved. If my living in the suburbs pisses you off and any other folks in this thread off... then that makes me very happy.

And yes A You... the Metro in DC is very well done... Baltimore? Well they've had some issues over the years, but they are trying.

You know, I actually do have a savings account. It's mostly depleted, though. I lost my good paying job about two years ago thanks to the absolutely SHIT nature of this economy and have been scraping by since. But thank you for your kind words, this never occured to me before.

I just think you refuse to hear what people are saying when they say that suburbia has been bad for America. You're displaying almost neocon tendencies and you really seem like a more intelligent person than that.

 

[Guileless]

I agree with xabre's general idea, but for different reasons. I don't think there are a lot of people glorying in self-assured arrogance at their mastery of the world as they gun the engine on their Escalades and turn the AC up all the way. By and large people are simply ignorant about what a fantasy world we live in because they have never experienced anything else.

This applies both to (mostly conservative) Americans and their energy use and (mostly liberal) Europeans and their security.

 

[DarienA]

You counter my using one city as an example by using one city as another example. Equally brilliant!

If you can use a f'n example to show your view, why can't I? Which I believe proves my point, no one city's current status tells you exactly what's going on in the nation. Many cities are showing a resurgence of inner city growth, and I'm sure many cities are not...

You know, I actually do have a savings account. It's mostly depleted, though. I lost my good paying job about two years ago thanks to the absolutely SHIT nature of this economy and have been scraping by since. But thank you for your kind words, this never occured to me before.

Ah... a bit more insight... looks like the the sour grapes syndrome. I'm never happy to see someone lose their job, but unfortunately that shit happens. I'm curious to know what business sector of work you were in? I'm also curious about your claims out the current economic status of this country... and it's something that I've notice a huge disparity in the reporting... depending on what you read, who reports it, etc... the economy is either doing bad, or doing well right now.

I just think you refuse to hear what people are saying when they say that suburbia has been bad for America. You're displaying almost neocon tendencies and you really seem like a more intelligent person than that.

Oh no it's not refusing to hear, I hear you, I just don't subscribe to your line of thinking, I don't pin many of the problems on suburbia. Because in my mind surburbia was going to come in to existence at some point simply based on the increased population this country will contine to see, people living longer, etc. Everyone wasn't going to continue to just live in city centers, nor would they want to... and many of this places that start out as small suburban areas grow up to be their own strong stable economic city points. I see your view as the status of individual 'cities', whereas having dealt with a poverty-based organization I tend to look more at the health of whole counties...

 

[whytemyke]

The economy is turning to total schite right now... not only has gas kept going up, but Ford just closed a factory near where I live and is sending jobs to Atlanta.

Not a good time to live in Michigan. Maybe I really will seriously consider doing grad school next year in Toronto. There's gotta be a cheaper way to get around than paying 2.70 a gallon. I'm already switching my shit up at school to only riding my bike everywhere, cuz it costs me upwards of fifty bucks to fill up my tank. I drive an old Danger Ranger so the mileage is MAYBE close to 20/gal. Not exactly super, and its even worse with city driving. Ugh.

Yeah. Hello bike, and hello firm thighs, tone ass and inverted testicles.

 

[Deku]

I really wish we had well developed mass transit systems in the major cities in this country. It'd make travel so much easier and convenient. It's the one thing I liked the most in Japan, such an incredible set of mass transit systems. It was actually less convenient to drive somewhere than it was to take a bus, subway, or train most places. The only thing that bothered me slightly was the price per trip but even that wasn't too bad.

Believe me, if Japan was ten times its present size, there would be more cars. We've gone through this, the comparison with North America isn't even close. Unless you enjoy being packed into train cars like sardines every morning and have strangers breathing down your neck, you would see why a larger and less densely populated a country is, the less desire there is for mass transit.

Mass transit on a continental scale is just not feasable, and that's part of the reason.

That's not to say I don't support mass transit, but I suspect most people who ride transit enjoy the relatively empty buses and trains and don't have a good grasp of how shitty it can be compared to having your personal space largely because with the exception of mass transit in the major cities like LA and New York, most mass transit in the smaller cities are placed there for convenience and combined with a car culture outside the city means that the transit doesn't get as much use.

Countries with well developed mass transit systems do it out of neccessity, not ideology. It's basically a myth propagated by mass transit-philes.
Albiet you can probably improve mass transit in many areas of North America by increasing service and expanding train lines but that will never come close to a tiny country deciding it needs mass transit since it will never have the space on its roads to fit all the cars people would want.

 

[whytemyke]

Believe me, if Japan was ten times its present size, there would be more cars. We've gone through this, the comparison with North America isn't even close. Unless you enjoy being packed into train cars like sardines every morning and have strangers breathing down your neck, you would see why a larger and less densely populated a country is, the less desire there is for mass transit.

Mass transit on a continental scale is just not feasable, and that's part of the reason.

That's not to say I don't support mass transit, but I suspect most people who ride transit enjoy the relatively empty buses and trains and don't have a good grasp of how shitty it can be compared to having your personal space largely because with the exception of mass transit in the major cities like LA and New York, most mass transit in the smaller cities are placed there for convenience and combined with a car culture outside the city means that the transit doesn't get as much use.

Countries with well developed mass transit systems do it out of neccessity, not ideology. It's basically a myth propagated by mass transit-philes.
Albiet you can probably improve mass transit in many areas of North America by increasing service and expanding train lines but that will never come close to a tiny country deciding it needs mass transit since it will never have the space on its roads to fit all the cars people would want.

This argument doesn't really hold much water, as Europe has made public transportation work quite well.

 

[Macam]

I can safely vouch on Deku's point that being crammed into a train car is not fun; sardines have live in luxurious canned mansions by comparison. That said, I wish more mass transit would complement the US' reliance on roads, at the very least, for heavily traveled routes with a more comprehensive bus system filling in the gaps.

 

[SteveMeister]

This argument doesn't really hold much water, as Europe has made public transportation work quite well.

Yeah, basically because most of the cities had massive damage after WWII and so they accounted for it in city planning. It was also got a huge monetary boost because of reparation programs like the Marshall Plan -- the US pumped $13 BILLION into European reconstruction between 1947 and 1953.

If it hadn't been for the destruction in WWII, I doubt Europe would have the mass transit network it now has.

 

[whytemyke]

Yeah, basically because most of the cities had massive damage after WWII and so they accounted for it in city planning. It was also got a huge monetary boost because of reparation programs like the Marshall Plan -- the US pumped $13 BILLION into European reconstruction between 1947 and 1953.

If it hadn't been for the destruction in WWII, I doubt Europe would have the mass transit network it now has.

Be that as it may, they've still got a functioning continent-wide mass transit system, working between countries even. Whatever the cause of the construction is moot. Europe has a working model for successful mass transit. If developers can make it work through different countries with different cultures and different laws, then surely it could be done in one country under one group of laws?

 

[KingV]

I'd say if you could make the payments at 25% of your income, you would be aces. Once you pay off the 20 on your 80/20 loan, your monthly mortgage will decrease quite a bit. The only reason I'm not entirely disagreeing with your decision is because the housing bubble is deflating.

That was a key part in my decision not to move as well, since I will only be in the area three'ish years.

 

[Phoenix]

Mass transit on a continental scale is just not feasable, and that's part of the reason.

Its feasible if there is a need. If fuel prices were nearing $30 a gallon instead of nearing $3 a gallon, I'm sure mass transit on a continental scale would be looked on as something that 'makes perfects sense'. Right now there still isn't much of that need. As bad as things are - people are still in a position to suck it up. When people can no longer suck it up, THEN people will realize the deal with mass transit.

most mass transit in the smaller cities are placed there for convenience and combined with a car culture outside the city means that the transit doesn't get as much use.

I'd be willing to debate this point as I see the opposite. In New Orleans, a relatively small metropolitan city - the mass transit system consists of busses and the busses go just about everywhere. The busses are most often packed because there are lot of people who simply don't want to or need to drive - or simply don't have a car. I used to find lots of high school students, college students, and older folks on the bus along with a general cross section of the city to round things out.

Here in Atlanta, the system isn't utilized that much because its reach is poor - very poor and there are lobbyists who fight tooth and nail to keep the transportation system in the crappy state that its in. Atlanta is a MUCH larger city than New Orleans and that's a major part of the problem. Getting reach for a mass transit system in a city the size of Atlanta is expensive and non-trivial AND because the city is so large the travel times aren't short either. Due to the planning of the system, it simply cannot serve the needs of the people who might want to use it. I myself am not opposed to mass transit. I would use the one here in Atlanta because for me it would be 100% free - work would pay for it. However to call our system 'inconvenient' borders on the ludicrous.

Albiet you can probably improve mass transit in many areas of North America by increasing service and expanding train lines but that will never come close to a tiny country deciding it needs mass transit since it will never have the space on its roads to fit all the cars people would want.

I don't think anyone is advocating a mass transit system that runs from Atlanta to San Francisco, but all major metro areas should have viable systems that serve to get people from the burbs and into the city cheaply and effectively as a matter of urban planning.

 

[whytemyke]

just occured to me this morning, and I can't believe I didn't see it before as prices are now pushing $67 a barrel.

Energy bill signed. Highway legislation signed... I'd bet dollars to donuts that these prices continue for a few weeks, and then Bush comes in on his white horse and offers the dreary American motorists the idea of drilling in ANWR, and magically gas prices come back down and simmer around $2.30 for another couple years.

Maybe it's just crazy speak. But I'm willing to bet that the first time Bush speaks up about the gas prices and oil situation, it involves drilling in America.

 

[Guileless]

I will bet you any amount of donuts and/or money that gas prices will not magically fall after President Bush says something about drilling in Alaska (which he's been saying for a long time anyway.)

 

[SteveMeister]

Be that as it may, they've still got a functioning continent-wide mass transit system, working between countries even. Whatever the cause of the construction is moot. Europe has a working model for successful mass transit. If developers can make it work through different countries with different cultures and different laws, then surely it could be done in one country under one group of laws?

No, the causes of how it all got started and was initially funded have EVERYTHING to do with it. The US hasn't had its major cities largely destroyed, and isn't getting war reparation money. Mass transit systems must be built amongst existing infrastructure, which makes the job much harder and more expensive. That's why they're so slow to be made. In addition, in Europe after WWII most people weren't exactly in a position to own a private car, and so there was an absolute need for mass transit. In the US, this simply isn't the case. The combination of limited demand, much higher cost of construction, and lack of a financial nest egg from which to draw make the creation of new (or interconnected) mass transit systems extremely unlikely. Could things change? Sure -- but I don't think $3-$4 per gallon is going to be the catalyst.

 

[whytemyke]

No, the causes of how it all got started and was initially funded have EVERYTHING to do with it. The US hasn't had its major cities largely destroyed, and isn't getting war reparation money. Mass transit systems must be built amongst existing infrastructure, which makes the job much harder and more expensive. That's why they're so slow to be made. In addition, in Europe after WWII most people weren't exactly in a position to own a private car, and so there was an absolute need for mass transit. In the US, this simply isn't the case. The combination of limited demand, much higher cost of construction, and lack of a financial nest egg from which to draw make the creation of new (or interconnected) mass transit systems extremely unlikely. Could things change? Sure -- but I don't think $3-$4 per gallon is going to be the catalyst.

Yeah... you're very right here now that you explain your position, heh. My bad with the whole argument. Though I do believe that 3-4 bucks a gallon could be a far greater catalyst than people think. I mean, we're talking about people having to fill up their tanks almost weekly. Say they have an 18 gallon tank. They're going to be paying close to 65 bucks to fill up their tank. That's PER WEEK. Compare that to a year ago when gas cost around a buck and a half. You're going from paying about 130 a month in gas last year to close to 250 bucks a month in gas this year.

I think this could have implications on the economy that go far beyond what we see now. Kinda like how everyone had to be urged after 9/11 to still go out and purchase shit like they normally would... but now people won't be able to afford to purchase shit.

 

[pulsemyne]

No, the causes of how it all got started and was initially funded have EVERYTHING to do with it. The US hasn't had its major cities largely destroyed, and isn't getting war reparation money. Mass transit systems must be built amongst existing infrastructure, which makes the job much harder and more expensive. That's why they're so slow to be made. In addition, in Europe after WWII most people weren't exactly in a position to own a private car, and so there was an absolute need for mass transit. In the US, this simply isn't the case. The combination of limited demand, much higher cost of construction, and lack of a financial nest egg from which to draw make the creation of new (or interconnected) mass transit systems extremely unlikely. Could things change? Sure -- but I don't think $3-$4 per gallon is going to be the catalyst.

Not really true in some ways. For example London has the oldest underground system in the world and our train system is in serious need of investment. Believe you me if the public transport system in the Uk was better then more would use it. Thakfully we are beginning to see some major investment in the rail system. Most US cities are far newer in their construction and layout than UK or european cities and so mass transit system would be easier to impliment (most american cities conform to the grid/block system ) whereas euro cities are so old that the layout is chaotic.

 

[Vandiger]

Yeah... you're very right here now that you explain your position, heh. My bad with the whole argument. Though I do believe that 3-4 bucks a gallon could be a far greater catalyst than people think. I mean, we're talking about people having to fill up their tanks almost weekly. Say they have an 18 gallon tank. They're going to be paying close to 65 bucks to fill up their tank. That's PER WEEK. Compare that to a year ago when gas cost around a buck and a half. You're going from paying about 130 a month in gas last year to close to 250 bucks a month in gas this year.

I think this could have implications on the economy that go far beyond what we see now. Kinda like how everyone had to be urged after 9/11 to still go out and purchase shit like they normally would... but now people won't be able to afford to purchase shit.

Well yeah, already diesel gas prices are above $3.00 in some areas of the country. This will have major implications when it comes to transporting goods throughout the nation, you will see price increases on shipping, groceries, almost anything we buy pratically. Current adminsistration is fucking stupid if it thinks we can rely on oil for the next 10-20 years, you need to consider other countries competing for oil like China and India. As far as I'm concerned we are in a world of shit if they don't start funding programs for homegrown fuels like methanol, solar, wind, etc.

 

[SteveMeister]

Not really true in some ways. For example London has the oldest underground system in the world and our train system is in serious need of investment. Believe you me if the public transport system in the Uk was better then more would use it. Thakfully we are beginning to see some major investment in the rail system. Most US cities are far newer in their construction and layout than UK or european cities and so mass transit system would be easier to impliment (most american cities conform to the grid/block system ) whereas euro cities are so old that the layout is chaotic.

I suppose it applies more to the continent than UK. All the mass transit systems are newer and most are interconnected. I know that in Germany, you can get pretty much anywhere just on trains -- within cities, between cities, etc.

 

[pulsemyne]

Yeah thats true. Most of europe rebuilt their mass transit systems (france for example) while the UK went and spent a lot of money on other projects (such as the NHS and much heiigher defence spending).