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[Captain Europe]

I agree with this. The guy isnt a bigot but he is free to disagree. He told people to take it to PMs if they want to continue to debate and thats fair. For once you have another Christian who ISNT being hateful so take that as a positive and debate him in a non aggressive manner.

He's referring to millions of people he doesn't know as sinful, that is definitely being a an ignorant bigot.

 

[berzeli]

If you want to insult me, at least be educated on the topic by which you would form your criticism of my perspective.

I have family who are part of the clergy and am quite well acquainted with the bible. And your arguments are nothing I haven't heard before, and they're hateful bullshit. You pick and choose what people should adhere to so that you can feel good about yourself and condemn others. As it has already been pointed out, your reading of the bible isn't somehow the true one.

Just because you wrap your hate in kind words doesn't lessen the hatred behind them.

 

[Vanpastel]

If you want to insult me, at least be educated on the topic by which you would form your criticism of my perspective.

Why don't you apply that to yourself.

 

[Maledict]

I agree with this. The guy isnt a bigot but he is free to disagree. He told people to take it to PMs if they want to continue to debate and thats fair. For once you have another Christian who ISNT being hateful so take that as a positive and debate him in a non aggressive manner.

The poster said I'm arrogant for living my life, and that I should spend my entire time on this planet without the love, compassion and companionship of a partner. That I should deny , suppress and ignore the most fundamental desire we all have to be loved and love another.

Not for any choice I made, not for any reason - but simply because I was born this way, I am to be sentenced to a life of misery.

Just being polite doesn't in any way excuse the bigotry and prejudice that someone holds.

 

[FullMetalx117]

Please. He's calling homosexuals arrogant, defiant because they don't seek repentance, telling them to not act on "their urges", to essentially suppress all that they are, all in the name of religion. "there's no excuse for the behavior".

It's 2015 for fucks sake, and that's complete garbage, and should be treated as such.

From what I understand, he's referring to people in general, homosexual or not. His belief system probably applies to transgenders, other religions, and other sects within christianity as well.

It's a deferring opinion. Again people don't necessarily have to agree but they CAN be tolerant and not be a "bigot"

 

[metalslimer]

Sorry the opinion that homosexuality is a sin is not some benign opinion. It hurts so many kids perceptions of themselves and makes them feel like something is horribly wrong with themselves. If you actually express that opinion I don't see that as any better than people fighting against gay marriage

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

From what I understand, he's referring to people in general, homosexual or not. His belief system probably applies to transgenders, other religions, and other sects within christianity as well.

It's a deferring opinion. Again people don't necessarily have to agree but they CAN be tolerant and not be a "bigot"

Deal.

 

[pinkurocket]

Some Christians try so hard to push their religious ideals onto others, but refuse to step back and look at the bigger picture when it comes to basic stuff in life like sexual attraction. Like.. being straight it's normal to be grossed out by thinking of having sex with the same gender, duh, it's because you are straight. If you are gay, the idea of having sex with the opposite gender is just as gross. Easy to understand, right? It's a broad generalization, as there are plenty in-betweens and whatnot. But since when it comes to religion it's all about generalizations, it seems like the only way to get a point across.

When it comes to marriage and tradition, that's another discussion that I can respect. But times change and so does tradition.

 

[OboroShogun]

I take back saying you're polite.

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying and how I'm addressing homosexuals in the eyes of religious text not as individual people.

In the context of Christianity to be forgiven of sin through Jesus, the first step is to acknowledge it and then ask forgiveness.

Homosexuality is a stand out topic among Christians because though the Bible clearly states it is immoral, many people deny it as sin, therefore putting their own judgment above that of God. That is where it is viewed as arrogant.

This is all a Christian context as it relates to sin. Many adulterers or (insert sin here) will try to justify their behaviour out of pride or whatever reason that motivates them to continue it rather than acknowledge their erroneous nature. This is the same basic premise by which they are arrogant in the face of sin.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Sorry the opinion that homosexuality is a sin is not some benign opinion. It hurts so many kids perceptions of themselves and makes them feel like something is horribly wrong with themselves. If you actually express that opinion I don't see that as any better than people fighting against gay marriage

Agreed. Except for the "sorry" part.

 

[cajunator]

To answer this, the main difference is that homosexual don't seek repentance or acknowledge their sin and for that are arrogant and defiant. This makes it kind of unique among other sins in today's culture. It is no more severe than any other sin all people are guilty of, but to seek Christ you need to be honest with your sin and seek forgiveness.

Wait I missed this one.

No its not arrogant and defiant. Its people being who they are.
Being arrogant and defiant is what you are being.
I dont like where this is going. Im bowing out.

 

[moniker]

From what I understand, he's referring to people in general, homosexual or not.

To answer this, the main difference is that homosexual don't seek repentance or acknowledge their sin and for that are arrogant and defiant. This makes it kind of unique among other sins in today's culture.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[OboroShogun]

I have family who are part of the clergy and am quite well acquainted with the bible. And your arguments are nothing I haven't heard before, and they're hateful bullshit. You pick and choose what people should adhere to so that you can feel good about yourself and condemn others. As it has already been pointed out, your reading of the bible isn't somehow the true one.

Just because you wrap your hate in kind words doesn't lessen the hatred behind them.

You are the only one here speaking in a hateful tone simply because I do not live in accordance to your views. Ask yourself who is really the bigot?

 

[metalslimer]

You are the only one here speaking in a hateful tone simply because I do not live in accordance to your views. Ask yourself who is really the bigot?

The usual defense....

 

[Vanpastel]

You are the only one here speaking in a hateful tone simply because I do not live in accordance to your views. Ask yourself who is really the bigot?

You're the bigot here buddy no doubt about that.

 

[Captain Europe]

He thinks he's being different by being calm and using polite words, but it's a dead horse beaten by many before him. I've heard it all before.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying and how I'm addressing homosexuals in the eyes of religious text not as individual people.

In the context of Christianity to be forgiven of sin through Jesus, the first step is to acknowledge it and then ask forgiveness.

Homosexuality is a stand out topic among Christians because though the Bible clearly states it is immoral, many people deny it as sin, therefore putting their own judgment above that of God. That is where it is viewed as arrogant.

This is all a Christian context as it relates to sin. Many adulterers or (insert sin here) will try to justify their behaviour out of pride or whatever reason that motivates them to continue it rather than acknowledge their erroneous nature. This is the same basic premise by which they are arrogant in the face of sin.

Translation:

No no no you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not a bigot I'm just saying that being gay is like lie, cheating and stealing.

You are the only one here speaking in a hateful tone simply because I do not live in accordance to your views. Ask yourself who is really the bigot?

Spoiler

You

 

[Demon Lizardman]

Someone edit my avatar as well. My uncle is gay and is getting married soon!

 

[berzeli]

You are the only one here speaking in a hateful tone simply because I do not live in accordance to your views. Ask yourself who is really the bigot?

You. You are. Not being tolerant of intolerance does not make me a bigot.

I have not condemned you, your lifestyle or your love life. What I have condemned and will continue to condemn (and yes, even condemn in stern language) is you using the bible to justify your bigotry.

 

[Evoker1995]

Can we just agree to disagree here? This is obviously is going no where and is going to disrail the purpose of the thread. Everyone are pretty straight forward in their opinions. Arguing over an internet forum is going to change nothing.

 

[Rich!]

You are the only one here speaking in a hateful tone simply because I do not live in accordance to your views. Ask yourself who is really the bigot?

I see only one bigot here.

It's not him.

 

[bengraven]

Family gathering. Kind of somber. My newly uber religious B and SIL were not mentioning it at all, which was good. We all just had a good time talking about their trip scalloping this weekend.

Then the military/extremely pious family showed up. They hate me, though they are very nice to me and will openly say "we hate that you're a sissy pants liberal but you married our niece so we're happily pretending to like you - you may turn out to be a normal adult someday when you grow up".

They were okay until suddenly one minute the uncle and I are playing pool and he suddenly says "go rack up a rainbow there. God, you got your ffff...you got your rainbow, huh? Faggot flag going up, Confederate flag going down i'm saving my fffffuuufff....money because i'm getting the HELL out of this country before it kills itself...but I DON'T want to talk about it. I don't."

"Then..."

"I shouldn't have brought it up."

"Right." He walks away and I say mostly under my breath but still pretty much out loud "love is legal and hate is restricted, what a shitty country we live in, huh?".

 

[OboroShogun]

I think some people need to understand what a bigot is. I'm not intolerant towards anyone. Disagreeing with someone is not intolerance.

 

[Dai101]

So our benevolent creator just excludes a huge portion of the population from true love? For kicks?

In any case, I don't want to derail any further, once the bible verses come out debate is over anyway.

Something something mysterious ways and yada yada

Know the difference between Mosaic Law and the Covenant of Jesus.

Also know the canaanites reference to this passage in reflection to the particular challenges which faced the early israelites.

So, mental gymnastics basically.

 

[Rich!]

I think some people need to understand what a bigot is. I'm not intolerant towards anyone. Disagreeing with someone is not intolerance.

Your previous posts prove otherwise.

Dude, stop digging.

 

[FullMetalx117]

Seems pretty clear to me.

Read his newer post which explains his "arrogant" comment in much clear manner.

This is seriously getting ridiculous, almost a witch hunt- we're basically trying to find the slightest bit unclear wording to take a member (who happens to have a differing opinion) down.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think some people need to understand what a bigot is. I'm not intolerant towards anyone. Disagreeing with someone is not intolerance.

Here I think you need this , your hands must be getting so dirty

 

[Beefy]

This thread delivering again.

 

[OboroShogun]

You. You are. Not being tolerant of intolerance does not make me a bigot.

I have not condemned you, your lifestyle or your love life. What I have condemned and will continue to condemn (and yes, even condemn in stern language) is you using the bible to justify your bigotry.

How am I tolerant of intolerance? I've actually said I understand the government decision due to their job to represent a diverse group. Where have I complained about the legality of same sex marriage? I don't have to give up my Christian believe or suddenly be accused of hate crimes.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying and how I'm addressing homosexuals in the eyes of religious text not as individual people.

In the context of Christianity to be forgiven of sin through Jesus, the first step is to acknowledge it and then ask forgiveness.

Homosexuality is a stand out topic among Christians because though the Bible clearly states it is immoral, many people deny it as sin, therefore putting their own judgment above that of God. That is where it is viewed as arrogant.

This is all a Christian context as it relates to sin. Many adulterers or (insert sin here) will try to justify their behaviour out of pride or whatever reason that motivates them to continue it rather than acknowledge their erroneous nature. This is the same basic premise by which they are arrogant in the face of sin.

You appear to very much adhere to that religious text, therefore are in support of it's assertions and bigotry against homosexuals. But like I said, whatever, progress in the federal courts, and the court of public opinion keeps on keeping on regardless. That's what's actually important.

 

[OboroShogun]

Yes, I realize that this is what Christians believe.

However, if I told you having sex with your married wife is sinful, what would you say?

That's what it is like, telling LGBT that "homosexuality is sinful." That's like me telling you your desire to be one with your wife is sinful.

I would ask you what your basis for that statement is and go from there. I wouldn't become emotionally charged and resort to name calling.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Read his newer post which explains his "arrogant" comment in much clear manner.

This is seriously getting ridiculous, almost a witch hunt- we're basically trying to find the slightest bit unclear wording to take a member (who happens to have a differing opinion) down.

LGBT folks are not a fucking debate, it's not a matter of opinion.

 

[Captain Europe]

I think some people need to understand what a bigot is. I'm not intolerant towards anyone. Disagreeing with someone is not intolerance.

You are disagreeing with my sexuality, a biological part of me.

That is the very definition of intolerance.

Replace homosexuality with black in your mind and you'll see how intolerant you sound.

You're a bigot and you being reserved and calm doesn't change that. If you don't like being called a bigot, then change yourself.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying and how I'm addressing homosexuals in the eyes of religious text not as individual people.

In the context of Christianity to be forgiven of sin through Jesus, the first step is to acknowledge it and then ask forgiveness.

Homosexuality is a stand out topic among Christians because though the Bible clearly states it is immoral, many people deny it as sin, therefore putting their own judgment above that of God. That is where it is viewed as arrogant.

But don't you see how hurtful and unnecessary it is to call something a person can't control a sin? And that when they don't stop being the person they were born as, they're somehow arrogant?

Let's say you have brown hair. Stop doing that. Hide it. For the rest of your life, you can't show a single brown hair. Ever. Why? Because my God said so. And if you refuse, you're an arrogant sinner. You must come to my God on bowed knee and beg His forgiveness for your brown-haired sin. To refuse is to be labelled an outcast by a large swath of society and be condemned to a life of shame and self-loathing.

I know my little scenario makes little sense. But to those of us who aren't Christian, neither do the proclamations of tent-dwellers from over a millennia ago who still believed the Earth was flat and the sun rotated around it.

 

[OboroShogun]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

 

[A Link to the Past]

You are the only one here speaking in a hateful tone simply because I do not live in accordance to your views. Ask yourself who is really the bigot?

You're the one promoting hate. Your religion makes people hurt, and you're actively encouraging it.

There are a lot of polite, awful people, so hiding behind your tone is a flimsy act.

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

Well if there's anything in this world that's rational, it's faith-based arguments.

Calmly disparaging people isn't a positive thing, and you need to not blame people for pushing back.

 

[Vanpastel]

I would ask you what your basis for that statement is and go from there. I wouldn't become emotionally charged and resort to name calling.

You're telling us that a fundamental part of ourselves is akin to stealing and lying, you are insulting us.

 

[makingmusic476]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

The division seems to be moving towards its end more rapidly than ever:

http://www.pewresearch.org/data-trend/domestic-issues/attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

 

[Canucked]

Woah, I came in to see more rainbow avatars.

This was a nice venting thread.

 

[Captain Europe]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

Ehh, no, staying calm doesn't erase your hate.

Bye and keep insulting I guess, I really hope you don't get homosexual children, or any children really, no one deserves to be brought up in such a hateful and misinformed environment.

Also, you are the only one forcing yourself onto others.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

Someone edit my avatar as well. My uncle is gay and is getting married soon!

 

[Vanpastel]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

I'd like to see how calm you'd remain if people like you were assaulted and beaten on the street for being who they are, and then I came here to sanctimoniously tell how sinful you are for being yourself.

 

[Anura]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

Why so defensive? Nobody hates you. We're just having a disagreement on whether or not you're a bigot. I know it might sound offensive to you but it's just my opinion. You should try and respect my opinion more.

Hate the bigoted ideas not the bigoted person.

 

[Mermandala]

OboroShogun, would you be happy to give wedding ring tattoos to a married gay couple?

 

[Gorilla Shark]

Free fb troll: rainbowify a pic of Jesus washing feet.

Holy shit this is good. Off to Facebook to troll my conservative co-workers I go...

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Has any christian crusader ever explained why the homosexuality thing is the one thing they are so vehemently against out of the bible while ignoring all of the other outlandish and crazy shit that passes for sins in the Old Testament? Like, where is the outrage for outlawing shellfish? Where are the people stoning their daughters to death for losing their virginity before marriage?

 

[Siegcram]

For the record, I typed very calmly and rational.

 

[Heartfyre]

You have to consider that there's a religious definition of marriage, and a secular definition of marriage. It's the civil protections that were won for homosexuals. It doesn't have to abide by any Christian institution, since not everyone deigns to follow it. Why should non-Christians be forced to adhere to a religious definition of marriage that they have no association with?

It's farcical to consider marriage on religious grounds anyway, as it predates Christianity. The Ancient Greeks and the Romans practiced civil unions long before any Christian dogma was invented.

 

[SchrodingerC]

OH MY GOD HE HAS EYES.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I'm finished speaking on the matter because really it doesn't affect me much and I came here with the intent of a sober discussion from a Christian perspective and how it's good that government is separate from religion. But it's a topic by which many people become emotionally charged and can't really have a rational exchange over.

The thing that is really going to end the division and hate is the ability to stay calm when expressing ourselves, not one side forcing themselves on the other.

You're confused. People are being very rational in their response of the irrational way you choose to explain your beliefs, to put it politely.