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[HTupolev]

No, but it is funny how 343 managed to out graphically in one game what Bungie had been kinda lacking in for say 3 Halo games? Makes me wonder bout the 3D modeling talent over there a Bungie a little........just a little though (They kinda did step their game up for Reach)

They really didn't. Compared with Reach, Halo 4's environment shadows are dithered, dynamic shadows are super low res, dynamic lights are tiny, texture quality isn't that great, the skyboxes switch to low-quality bitmap very near, the particle system doesn't seem to be used as heavily, water is a flat surface with no 3d animation, the LOD is some of the most aggressive I've ever seen, and there are noticeable compromises on gameplay and level design.
It's more a sidegrade than an upgrade from Reach, one designed to look more "polished" by throwing more detail up front and muddying everything else up behind low-quality FXAA and low-quality hazy bloom and screen-space godrays. The compromises are numerous and totally visible. Things like plasma chain explosions look and feel absolutely lifeless in Halo 4 compared with Reach.

Actually, I'd argue that Reach is itself not all that big of an upgrade from Halo 3, and one which has compromises of its own. Halo 3 is extremely limited in both details and image quality, but a major part of that is powering its lighting model. It's subtle, but a lot of areas in Halo 3 just plain *look good* (as does the specular model for dynamic lights).
Halo 3 also has quite a lot of neat touches. For instance, by the "banshees, fast and low" section on Sierra 117, you can jump in the river and shoot the fish. When you kill them, Halo 3's basic water physics take over; the fish floats to the surface and starts drifting downriver while producing 3d ripples in the water surface.
Halo 3 is tacky and low-details, but it does lots of what it does extremely well, and it's very fleshed-out and "complete" while permitting the designers to build things with very healthy range and scope.
Halo 3 takes a lot of crap because most of what it does really well on a technical level isn't in the realm of standard checkboxes that people easily notice on the fly... but as a complete product I think it's stuff that can nonetheless be appreciated.

 

[GhaleonEB]

It's a small thing, but the difference in how you press buttons between Bungie Halo and 343 Halo says a lot about what the mindset of both companies was when they were developing their games.

One of the things I've praised in Halo 4, which 343 put a big emphasis on, is in how it feels to play a Spartan. They feel big and heavy and powerful, yet agile(ish). It's a feeling of heft and power, and of being a person in a giant suit of armor, in a way Bungie was never really able to convey. 343 did a great job in that department.

I was not really commenting on how neat it was to see our arm appear to hit a button, but rather the absurd frequency with which we had to do so over the course of both the Campaign, and in the Spartan Ops missions I played. The Forerunner were big on buttons.

 

[The Librarian]

One of the things I've praised in Halo 4, which 343 put a big emphasis on, is in how it feels to play a Spartan in Halo 4. They feel big and heavy and powerful, yet agile(ish). It's a feeling of heft and power, and of being a person in a giant suit of armor, in a way Bungie was never really able to convey. 343 did a great job in that department.

I was not really commenting on how neat it was to see our arm appear to hit a button, but rather the absurd frequency with which we had to do so over the course of both the Campaign, and in the Spartan Ops missions I played. The Forerunner were big on buttons.

I think that was intentional. Funny thing is, even though you are a Spartan in Halo games, you're not supposed to feel like a Spartan. You're supposed to feel like a mad-jumping ninja. I'd give it ten-to-one odds that you jumped around less in Halo 4 than you did in any other Halo game.

It's ironic that one of the first things 343 set out to do – make the player feel like a Spartan – was one of their first, and greatest, missteps.

 

[NullPointer]

It's ironic that one of the first things 343 set out to do – make the player feel like a Spartan – was one of their first, and greatest, missteps.

They absolutely nailed it, and its one of the very best aspects of Halo 4 for me.

 

[The Librarian]

They absolutely nailed it, and its one of the very best aspects of Halo 4 for me.

I never said they didn't nail it, just that you're not supposed to feel like a Spartan in a Halo game. It negatively impacts the combat by encouraging less jumping.

 

[HTupolev]

I really don't get the comments that Halo 4 lets you "feel like a spartan" compared with Bungie's games. The movement feels almost identical to Reach's to me. If anything it feels gummier thanks to the sprint slowdown-on-shot mechanic. And the first-person animation style is almost identical.

I guess the sounds are louder? I dunno.

 

[DEADEVIL]

They absolutely nailed it, and its one of the very best aspects of Halo 4 for me.

I agree. They did nail it. But, I would say that nothing they moved forward takes away anything that was accomplished through Bungie. But, H4's campaign was a blast especially in co-op. When I finally catch up fully on Spartan Ops and have finished really enjoying these last two DLC packs I will definitely jump back into the campaign again.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

One of the things I've praised in Halo 4, which 343 put a big emphasis on, is in how it feels to play a Spartan. They feel big and heavy and powerful, yet agile(ish). It's a feeling of heft and power, and of being a person in a giant suit of armor, in a way Bungie was never really able to convey. 343 did a great job in that department.

I was not really commenting on how neat it was to see our arm appear to hit a button, but rather the absurd frequency with which we had to do so over the course of both the Campaign, and in the Spartan Ops missions I played. The Forerunner were big on buttons.

the button pressing was quite fustrating to me personally. I hated being stuck in that animation whenever i hit a button, specially if I didn't clear the room(which i do often), and it just started to feel odd when I'd just blow through a bunch of enemies, then relaxingly push the button, it was so jarring for me. I think once or twice would've been enough, more then enough. That interaction felt really fake, and if anything removed me from the game, simply because my approach didn't fit the context of the animation. It was nice that they added the it, but i think it ultimately made the experience feel more "directed" and as a result, anytime your actions fall out of line it's negatively impacting the experience.

I do think the weight and feel of the chief was better though. I actually think the overall feeling of the response time, and the way the chief handled was a lot more appropriate. Bungies games tended to have a bit of floatyness to them, even the stopping didn't feel as succinct as in h4.

 

[NullPointer]

I never said they didn't nail it, just that you're not supposed to feel like a Spartan in a Halo game. It negatively impacts the combat by encouraging less jumping.

I know its probably blasphemy but bunny hopping is one of the things that bugged me about previous Halos. Its nice to see it less often here.

*dodges thrown tomato*

And not to say bunny hopping is 100% bad - I'm an old school quake player after all, so I've bunny hopped, strafe-jumped and rocket-jumped with the best of em.

But as someone who has enjoyed the Halo fiction, and Fall of Reach in particular, I like the more grounded chief in Halo 4, so I appreciate all the subtle and less subtle effects in Halo 4 both for immersion and gameplay reasons.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think that was intentional. Funny thing is, even though you are a Spartan in Halo games, you're not supposed to feel like a Spartan. You're supposed to feel like a mad-jumping ninja. I'd give it ten-to-one odds that you jumped around less in Halo 4 than you did in any other Halo game.

It's ironic that one of the first things 343 set out to do – make the player feel like a Spartan – was one of their first, and greatest, missteps.

Not sure about that. I jumped all over the place in Halo 4, for fun. It's a different feeling, with more heft than say, Halo 3. But the jump is about as useful and I enjoyed the weight it conveyed. To the extent that I may have jumped less, it's because I didn't feel compelled to explore the environment in the same way I was with Bungie's games.

Bungie's smooth gliding leaps are great. But as a whole, I think 343 did a better job at making me feel like I was inhabiting a hulking suit of armor, while retaining my freedom of movement. It's a fine line, and one Bungie failed to hit in Reach.

I think it was one of 343's only unmitigated successes with Halo 4, to be honest. I have problems with nearly every other aspect of the game, other than the "feel" of movement.

the button pressing was quite fustrating to me personally. I hated being stuck in that animation whenever i hit a button, specially if I didn't clear the room(which i do often), and it just started to feel odd when I'd just blow through a bunch of enemies, then relaxingly push the button, it was so jarring for me. I think once or twice would've been enough, more then enough. That interaction felt really fake, and if anything removed me from the game, simply because my approach didn't fit the context of the animation. It was nice that they added the it, but i think it ultimately made the experience feel more "directed" and as a result, anytime your actions fall out of line it's negatively impacting the experience.

I do think the weight and feel of the chief was better though. I actually think the overall feeling of the response time, and the way the chief handled was a lot more appropriate. Bungies games tended to have a bit of floatyness to them, even the stopping didn't feel as succinct as in h4.

I agree. On the plus side the animation makes you feel more connected to the environment. But the cost is your stuck in that animation rather than just smacking it and moving on. I don't think I'd have minded if the number of button presses were dramatically reduced. But it got old to watch, and it made it so you couldn't just hit and run, so to speak.

 

[HTupolev]

On the plus side the animation makes you feel more connected to the environment.

Sort of. Sometimes it makes me feel less connected because it involves a context switch.

It takes a separation that used to eliminated by accepting that the gameworld had its own rules, and brings it to the forefront and points out that it exists. It forces the gameworld to adhere to realistic rules, without actually blending them naturally together.

 

[The Librarian]

Not sure about that. I jumped all over the place in Halo 4, for fun. It's a different feeling, with more heft than say, Halo 3. But the jump is about as useful and I enjoyed the weight it conveyed. To the extent that I may have jumped less, it's because I didn't feel compelled to explore the environment in the same way I was with Bungie's games.

Bungie's smooth gliding leaps are great. But as a whole, I think 343 did a better job at making me feel like I was inhabiting a hulking suit of armor, while retaining my freedom of movement. It's a fine line, and one Bungie failed to hit in Reach.

I think it was one of 343's only unmitigated successes with Halo 4, to be honest. I have problems with nearly every other aspect of the game, other than the "feel" of movement.

Fair enough, but you and I both agree that Halo 4 doesn't feel like a Halo campaign, and I honestly think feeling like a Spartan has something to do with that.

 

[NullPointer]

Fair enough, but you and I both agree that Halo 4 doesn't feel like a Halo campaign, and I honestly think feeling like a Spartan has something to do with that.

I blame the Prometheans: On the AI, visuals and weaponry fronts.

Every time I was fighting Covenant I was having a great time.

 

[The Librarian]

I blame the Prometheans: On the AI, visuals and weaponry fronts.

Every time I was fighting Covenant I was having a great time.

It's a lot of things, including the Covenant.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Nearly every aspect of Halo 4 makes it not feel like a Halo campaign, including the Covenant.

The covenant parts felt like every Halo to me. It was the Prothean parts that brought it all down.

 

[The Librarian]

The covenant parts felt like every Halo to me. It was the Prothean parts that brought it all down.

The Covenant didn't feel like past Halo games because 343 adopted a more serious, less-exaggerated approach to them. And the AI was poor.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Fair enough, but you and I both agree that Halo 4 doesn't feel like a Halo campaign, and I honestly think feeling like a Spartan has something to do with that.

I think we definately agree on most aspects of Halo 4, and certainly on the bottom line. As I attribute it to the mission design, weak AI, sound design (What do Elites and Jackals sound like in Halo 4? I don't think I ever heard them; the Grunts sound like the bad guy in the Scream moves if he sipped helium before making a call.), Promethean design, excessive shooting gallery set pieces, and truly terrible feedback loop. Among other things.

Okay, done ripping on Halo 4 now. I've put it behind me - haven't had the game for three months now - but the GDC presentation brought it all rushing back.

 

[Simzyy]

The covenant parts felt like every Halo to me. It was the Prothean parts that brought it all down.

My biggest complaint about the covenant is that they basically removed the soul of them. gone is the sillyness and random ridiculous phrases from the grunts. No more English speaking aliens too. Not a fan of it.

Halo 4 takes itself too seriously

 

[Risette]

The Prometheans make Halo 4 by far the worst Halo campaign ever. Couldn't stand it.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Fair enough, but you and I both agree that Halo 4 doesn't feel like a Halo campaign, and I honestly think feeling like a Spartan has something to do with that.

i think level design had a much larger part. I mean, many times you're never properly situated in the levels, and never afforded the opportunity to explore them. One of the classic halo designs is revisiting past levels with new circumstances and having large "sandbox" levels. These are horribly missing from h4, and I personally feel lost without them. The cartographer afaik was the first built haloCE level, it was the base for the sand-box concept, the testing ground for many of the concepts. Even in reach they include swordbase which is very similar in concept, and yet is this design neglected in halo 4. Why? And why is the scenery constantly changing if you're not allowing any backtracking? i think the second level there are like 4-5 different areas. The opening crashed ship, then theres this sandy-rocky area, then these green rocky fields, then a blue forerunner area, then the redish forerunner area, then it's this golden field area. That pretty much happens within the first 30 minutes of the level. The game is pushing you so quickly through all these areas without developing them as unique and interesting spaces. It's so difficult to remember things from that game because of how rapidly things were changing.

 

[HTupolev]

Why? And why is the scenery constantly changing if you're not allowing any backtracking? i think the second level there are like 4-5 different areas. The opening crashed ship, then theres this sandy-rocky area, then these green rocky fields, then a blue forerunner area, then the redish forerunner area, then it's this golden field area. That pretty much happens within the first 30 minutes of the level. The game is pushing you so quickly through all these areas without developing them as unique and interesting spaces. It's so difficult to remember things from that game because of how rapidly things were changing.

That's an interesting point. Halo 4's level design does a number of things to squash a good sense of place. Up until the beginning of combat zones on the level Requiem I thought the game was going a very good job in this regard (though I think it would have been even better if they'd fit Dawn into the FUD by messing with the old FUD layout CE-PoA-style rather than changing the ship's exterior shape), but it started really dropping the ball after that.

The level Infinity has a different problem with similar effects: as you go through the jungle, the Infinity isn't usually in good view to really make it feel like you're fighting to it (contrast with Pillar of Autumn in Reach), and this is made even more problematic by the way the level resets your location with cutscenes on two occasions.

 

[DEADEVIL]

Fair enough, but you and I both agree that Halo 4 doesn't feel like a Halo campaign, and I honestly think feeling like a Spartan has something to do with that.

I disagree. Felt exactly like a Halo campaign. Albiet the kind of campaign that actually semed to nod to the older days.

Plus easily the best cutscenes Halo has ever seen, hands down.

#2 Halo cutscenes for the record goes to Halo Wars.

 

[The Librarian]

You disagree with the fact that Ghal and I think that Halo 4's campaign doesn't feel like a Halo campaign?

 

[rakka]

sometimes for no apparent reason I make a big loud boom! when I land with my halo 4 spartan feet from a relatively small jump. so yeah I suppose it feels like I'm bigger and heavier?

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I disagree. Felt exactly like a Halo campaign. Albiet the kind of campaign that actually semed to nod to the older days.

Plus easily the best cutscenes Halo has ever seen, hands down.

#2 Halo cutscenes for the record goes to Halo Wars.

which cutscene?

 

[KageMaru]

Finally watched this and it was a decent panel. It was a bit skimpy on the details and I would have liked for him to cover where they made mistakes and what they've learned from them more than vague view on their design process.

Also, has Scott Warner's talk been posted anywhere? I'm hoping some of my questions may have been covered in his panel.

 

[Scooby]

http://www.microsoft-careers.com/job/Redmond-CREATIVE-DIRECTOR-Job-WA-98052/1733849/

Isn't Josh the creative director?

 

[Syphon Filter]

I disagree. Felt exactly like a Halo campaign. Albiet the kind of campaign that actually semed to nod to the older days.

Plus easily the best cutscenes Halo has ever seen, hands down.

#2 Halo cutscenes for the record goes to Halo Wars.

it didnt feel like a halo campaign at all. it was terrible,dull and had a generic soundtrack. the cutscenes are terrible and doesnt fit with the franchise.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

I loved Halo 4 so all I can say is: 343, whatever you do, do your own damn thing and don't listen to GAF.

Thank you.


Edit: pffff wrong thread. Fucking cellphone.

I'm sorry everyone.

 

[orznge]

I loved Halo 4 so all I can say is: 343, whatever you do, do your own damn thing and don't listen to GAF.

Thank you.

agreed, this is the first Halo that I ever kept coming back to for the multiplayer :O