What is your concrete point of argument here?
Aside from insulting her, which is very low brow.
Germany reinstates Border Controls - Temporarily exits from Schengen
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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Aside from insulting her, which is very low brow.
ClosingADoor
Member
I am OK with Germany not taking in any more refugees, since they have more then taken their fair share. For them to process the current amount, they need time. That can't be done if almost every day you have 10.000 more people arriving.
As for the situation in Greece and Italy, some way needs to be found to prevent these people from arriving there in the current numbers. The EU should help out with the Syrian refugee crisis, but how it is now is not a good way. We need to work together with countries like Turkey, get people from the refugee camps there and bring them to the EU in numbers that we can manage. This way we also don't have human traffickers profiting from this and people dying in the ocean every day.
I think hes trying to say, that its impractical to build a wall along the whole coast line.
That's not true, where did you get that from?
edit: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_quarterly_report
A few numbers to back it up.
Locke Lamora
Member
Didn't know that Germany has a dictatorship again
PdotMichael
Banned
In fact they are even quite on the bottom in Europe.
Reneledarker
Banned
The thing is the nearest cities are already full and some are in a pretty bad situation like Lebanon.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I think this being a temporary measure pending a more comprehensive agreement being worked out this week for the allocation of people is OK. Having a more formal, structured plan was probably the right way to do this from the beginning.
But if no comprehensive agreement is arrived at, things will get pretty ugly quickly as there would be a cascade of border closures and finger-pointing...
But if no comprehensive agreement is arrived at, things will get pretty ugly quickly as there would be a cascade of border closures and finger-pointing...
The amount of foiled terrorists attacks IS overwhelming. So much so that I am amazed that in recent times Charlie Hebdo represents the biggest attack. Literally every week, somewhere in Europe, plans are foiled, guns are collected, explosive materials are found.
If they only caught half of the possible attacks or flukes like the American soliders stopping that gunman on a french train didn't occur, then Europe would be a police state by now. As well as extreme right wing governments would be in control of most states.
I do not like the idea of a Police State or Nazi's running the show, so I am grateful.
MonorailCat
Member
What are you talking about? Spain has taken in almost no refugees.
You want to let them die in the water, in boats where you can't even sit? All three of those are border countries, which always had bigger problems with refugees from africa/the middle east. So of course they would have more refugees than other middle/upper european countries.
Haha, what is this absolute bullshit you are spouting?
fizzelopeguss
Banned
"Germany is to reintroduce border controls and will exit temporarily from the Schengen system, the interior minister has said, after the countrys regions said they could no longer cope with the overwhelming number of refugees arriving from Austria."
But Germany stronk, it can take in all the waifs and strays of the world. There is no limit to the German conscience.
But Germany stronk, it can take in all the waifs and strays of the world. There is no limit to the German conscience.
Enosh
Member
last i checked it was Germany that put up a big sign saying "everyone come here!" not all of EU
Please look up a list of the advantages of an open europa.
Don't the EU rules state that a refugee must register themselves as such in the first EU country they come to? It seems like passing through 'poorer' countries to get to the preferable, 'richer' countries violates at least the spirit of that rule.
I feel bad for both the refugees and the EU nations involved. I have no idea how this problem can even be solved - you can't send them back if they truly face danger/persecution and you just can't take them all in.
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, the rules (Dublin agreement) state that. But a country like Greece can't possibly be expected to do that in the state it is currently in also.
European values are common knowledge: Tolerance, prosperity and so on.
EE don't even have anything close to a multicultural society yet already complain as if the whole of Beijing is moving to Warsaw.
PdotMichael
Banned
And Charlie Hebdo was an attack planned in France done by French citizens (so they could get into most countries anyway).
The idea that terrorists would random travel through Europe just because Schengen makes it possible (it was also possible before Schengen) is quite silly at best.
That's the convention, but it would be HORRIBLE to load it all off on those states...
In other news, the main trainstation in Munich is closed due a search dog reacting towards explosives.
They're currently investigating the area...
I really hope this doesn't turn out to be true...
Are you a refugee?
Depends. Where are you from?
ClosingADoor
Member
Kicking them out of the EU and not working with them will surely be a good way to let those countries grow in those aspects...
These were countries that were part of the Soviet Union little over 25 years ago and you expect them to already be a fully Western society? That is just impossible. We have already seen countries like Poland and the Baltics grow tremendously over the past decade thanks to EU involvement and open trade. I'm actually pretty amazed by it. And let's not pretend Western Europe has always been tolerant. Germany doesn't even have gay marriage for example, how is that for tolerance?
Not. Except maybe a passport check if you take the train from Austria to Germany.
LMAO
Oh dear. I'm pretty sure that those trains are packed. If someone detonated explosives in there, it would be a catastrophe.
Ovek
7Member7
I am positively shocked that the German immigration system is at breaking point when you open the flood gates.
It won't be the eastern European countries that destroy the EU but the heart of it instead. If Germany and France wanted to force the "shared" immigration on member states tomorrow they don't have a leg to stand on.
It won't be the eastern European countries that destroy the EU but the heart of it instead. If Germany and France wanted to force the "shared" immigration on member states tomorrow they don't have a leg to stand on.
That's economics and I agree that they're doing better than expected on that front. Not wanting refugees though and/or not handling the situation well is something they need to improve on quickly. We can't give them the benefit of the doubt forever, they need to work with us and not against us when stuff gets hard.
Now here is the rub. Think for just a second, that maybe this idea is not as universal as you think it is, even in Western Europe. That there is currently a swell/tide of people against this societal system set-up. That recent polls on the migrants situation, the hesitation on a lot of Euro nations for accepting migrants and the rise of the right/far right in various states refutes this idea. Anybody that has been following the news in Europe knows there is something large afoot. It's not that I don't agree with your idealistic thoughts on Europe, but I just don't think that is the general consensus whatsoever currently in Europe.
I agree that the continent has common values. But I think those values have limits. Tolerance and prosperity are important. But states and even individuals do not have a vast well from which to draw this from and when pressured or overwhelmed these good and sometimes idealistic beliefs can fall apart.
ClosingADoor
Member
You can make the same arguments against the UK, Netherlands, Denmark and more.
Eastern Europe is even more against it, yes. But it is not like they are alone in that regard. And since they are the poorest countries of the union still, I can't really blame them for it that much.
dark_prinny
Banned
No surprise here.
What kind of backwards logic is this?
They should close the borders to Germans because Germany stops taking in refugees, but at the same time they don't have to take refugees themselves because Germany currently stopped taking any in?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
It says they're doing it to give temporary respite for the german states involved:
It certainly would be a massive u-turn if Germany of all countries suddenly (and permanently) prohibited refugees from entering. So I find the above to be more likely.
dapperbandit
Banned
Everyone is asking him questions, let's give him a minute or two to answer a couple ones at least before s/he feels forced to run away.
Within the train station, not in the trains.
And they closed off the area, still it would be most likely the first major planned attack.
There were a few situations were planned housing situations for refugees were burned, luckily with no one inside, but explosives would be on another level.
Well, its not been open for too long.
Are you a terrorist?
TatteredHat
Member
Well, I did mention before that both Dublin and Schengen don't mean anything so I'm not surprised that this happened.
Now, with a little luck, we'll actually see proper immigration policies put in place and enforced.
Now, with a little luck, we'll actually see proper immigration policies put in place and enforced.
I'll wait and see how it all turns out, but I'm sensing a genius move by Merkel. She has portrayed a very positive image of Germany within just a few days and is now in the position to say "We need a break" and demand stuff from the neighbouring countries. Refugees will line up all around Germany and the countries will be pressured to finally do something about it themselves. If they get overcrowded, they will also close their borders and the same effect will happen on the neighbouring countries of said German neighbours etc.
Borders may open and then close again, and again. Thereby regulating the refugee numbers outside of Germany from within the centre.
edit:
And this will definitely not have anything to do with free travel outside of this current crisis.
Borders may open and then close again, and again. Thereby regulating the refugee numbers outside of Germany from within the centre.
edit:
And this will definitely not have anything to do with free travel outside of this current crisis.
gutter_trash
Banned
I read Australia
This is all spinning out of control. The EU needs a universal approach and fast, Schengen can't function without it. This was almost inevitable in hindsight. They better make some serious headway tomorrow or the foundations of the very Union itself is going to shake.
The countries opposed to this must come to their senses.. "No refugees" is a completely untenable position even if you ignore the human rights aspect because they're already here and they won't stop coming. What are the southern border states supposed to do without a universal approach? Sink the boats, like Nick Giffin suggested? Try to "repatriate" them to Turkey or whatever other transit nation they supposedly came from? Build walls and let them starve on the other side? Gun them down when they try to climb them anyway?
There's a reason Germany is taking the lead in accepting refugees, they know what happens when you try to build walls to prevent people from going somewhere they're prepared to risk everything to get to. Fortress Europa isn't an option unless we're all prepared to become butchers to hold its walls.
The countries opposed to this must come to their senses.. "No refugees" is a completely untenable position even if you ignore the human rights aspect because they're already here and they won't stop coming. What are the southern border states supposed to do without a universal approach? Sink the boats, like Nick Giffin suggested? Try to "repatriate" them to Turkey or whatever other transit nation they supposedly came from? Build walls and let them starve on the other side? Gun them down when they try to climb them anyway?
There's a reason Germany is taking the lead in accepting refugees, they know what happens when you try to build walls to prevent people from going somewhere they're prepared to risk everything to get to. Fortress Europa isn't an option unless we're all prepared to become butchers to hold its walls.
How many refugees are you currently housing?
What do you suggest we do to the refugees? Shoot them?
Congrats on using like the oldest, worthless non-argument in existence of this discussion.
General support of immigration does not necessitate personal housing, nor does disagreement with this decision by the German government. I'm German and it is my good right to fundamentally disagree with it.
I still see subtle posts that are arguing that the immigration needs to be balanced and other Euro countries need to do their part.
Let's forget the Southern Euro states at the moment with their debt, massive unemployment, lower living standards and slightly more nationalistic mentalities,
Let's take EE for example, how would you get migrants to stay in one of these countries Romania, Poland, Czech, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Baltics etc?
They simple do not have the resources or the incentives. Why would any migrants stay longer than a temporary stop-gap between EE and western nations?
Let's forget the Southern Euro states at the moment with their debt, massive unemployment, lower living standards and slightly more nationalistic mentalities,
Let's take EE for example, how would you get migrants to stay in one of these countries Romania, Poland, Czech, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Baltics etc?
They simple do not have the resources or the incentives. Why would any migrants stay longer than a temporary stop-gap between EE and western nations?
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