Germany reinstates Border Controls - Temporarily exits from Schengen

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it was a mistake of merkel to say everyone is welcome without registering anywhere at all.

on the other hand, i can totally understand munichs mayor. it sucks so much to read that other states in germany wont lend a hand. what a bunch of cowards.

and iam still baffled how fucked the eastern european countries are.
they wont accept any refugees at all, this is not how to tackle a problem together in europe.
 
Mrmartel said:
I still see subtle posts that are arguing that the immigration needs to be balanced and other Euro countries need to do their part.

Let's forget the Southern Euro states at the moment with their debt, massive unemployment, lower living standards and slightly more nationalistic mentalities,

Let's take EE for example, how would you get migrants to stay in one of these countries Romania, Poland, Czech, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Baltics etc?

They simple do not have the resources or the incentives. Why would any migrants stay longer than a temporary stop-gap between EE and western nations?
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A quota for the distribution of refugees could take all of these things into consideration. Everybody should do as much as they could, relative to their own economy etc. Nobody is demanding to put refugees into countries relative to their number of residents or something like that.
 
Seems like a bit over blown.

They are temporarily halting free flow of the refugees/migrants as capacities are full. They have already taken in 450k migrants so that is understandable.
 
Well there it is, thought it would last longer that this lol. German politicians finally realised this is bite them in the ass at the next election and that it is unworkable.

Needless to say david Cameron will have the last laugh after all.
 
Sakujou said:
and iam still baffled how fucked the eastern european countries are.
they wont accept any refugees at all, this is not how to tackle a problem together in europe.
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Well, even if they receive them, they wont stay there, but try to got to the promised lands like Germany and Sweden.

Here (Slovenia) we could receive from 1000 to 3000 refugees, but we know that won't stay here. Maybe a few hundred would, but they would move on when reality of our situation (unemployment, poverty..) would hit them in the face.
 
Condom said:
Man those eastern european countries are useless beyond being a source of cheap labour and a buffer between Russia.

They don't get the European mentality at all and are not fit to stay members if you ask me.
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btyRK5l.gif
 
Mrmartel said:
I still see subtle posts that are arguing that the immigration needs to be balanced and other Euro countries need to do their part.

Let's forget the Southern Euro states at the moment with their debt, massive unemployment, lower living standards and slightly more nationalistic mentalities,

Let's take EE for example, how would you get migrants to stay in one of these countries Romania, Poland, Czech, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Baltics etc?

They simple do not have the resources or the incentives. Why would any migrants stay longer than a temporary stop-gap between EE and western nations?
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they are seeking asylum. then they have to play by the rules. we are taking them in, but europe will shuffle them to a random country, i would assume there needs to be a law which says that refugees have to stay for a certain amount of time in that selected country before moving anywhere else.

offering social welfare/hitting the dole should not be the option. offering jobs is one thing.

one german politician said, if someone starts to nag and attack someone in the asylum offering country wont deserve asylum. i think this is right. germany and everyone who sells tons of weapons to the middle east (or is in any way involved in this) is responsible to offer asylum to these poor people.

on the other hand, asylum seekers cant demand whatever they want.

another point is that germany/europe as well as the refugees need education.
germans/europeans shouldnt think badly of refugees (maybe silent terrorists or bad muslims or whatever)

and on the other hand, refugees should forget about their home rules and should get accustomed to europe.
this means that religion does not play a major role in the society to fight over with.
or that women should be treated equally.

a friend was at one refugee camp since he can speak arabic, he is able to talk to some refugees.

some of them asked if prostitution is normal in germany because the woman are wearing short clothes and stuff. he simply gave them a short answer that they are free to wear whatever they want. so there are some basic things which should be communicated between germans as well as refugees who plan to stay longer here.
 
Mrmartel said:
I still see subtle posts that are arguing that the immigration needs to be balanced and other Euro countries need to do their part.

Let's forget the Southern Euro states at the moment with their debt, massive unemployment, lower living standards and slightly more nationalistic mentalities,

Let's take EE for example, how would you get migrants to stay in one of these countries Romania, Poland, Czech, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Baltics etc?

They simple do not have the resources or the incentives. Why would any migrants stay longer than a temporary stop-gap between EE and western nations?
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Someone correct me in case I'm wrong, but the right to settle in any country with the same rights and responsibilities of the citizens of said country only applies to EU citizens which in turn have to be citizens of one of the 28 EU countries. Simply being a resident of an EU country is not enough. This is based on the definitions found here:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/

If this is not the case a redesign of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union will obviously be one measure that has to be taken together with a universal EU policy. If it is set up in the way I describe the refugees would have the choice of remaining legal residents in the country they were assigned to, attempt to settle illegally with no benefits or right to work in another EU country anyway or simply go through the process of attaining citizenship of the assigned country before moving, a process which is rather lengthy. Even if the choose the latter this results in them having a much greater connection to their assigned country before making the decision to move and will likely result in only limited attempts - after all, there was no tsunami of Eastern Europeans after they were admitted either (despite doomsayers claiming the contrary before it) and the living standard in Eastern Europe is greater than it was in Syria anyway.

Sioen said:
Sure let's do that. It's too late for them anyways.
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*Looks out the window at Gothenburg*. Hmm, no fires, gunshots or ominous blood moons around. Wait - was that an explosion? Oh, just fireworks. I daresay the conviction of some people of our imminent demise is highly exaggerated. Don't worry, we'll be fine.
 
Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies. They eventually end up in the country who will give them what they want (holland, germany etc). Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.
 
DrM said:
Well, even if they receive them, they wont stay there, but try to got to the promised lands like Germany and Sweden.

Here (Slovenia) we could receive from 1000 to 3000 refugees, but we know that won't stay here. Maybe a few hundred would, but they would move on when reality of our situation (unemployment, poverty..) would hit them in the face.
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but still, take up those 2000 refugees. force them to stay. if they break the law, then they will face the consequences. every european country is an attractive country and should offer help.
 
shaki123 said:
Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies. They eventually end up in the country who will give them what they want (holland, germany etc). Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.
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Aaand I'm outta here...
 
I'm really suprised by this, this must be a temporary measure while the move the refugees so the areas near Austria aren't completely overwhelmed? Or a power play to force the rest of the EU to take measures to accept more refugees?

They've said repeatedly that they can take 500,000 refugees a year and they haven't hit that limit yet for this year (I think they're at around 300,000?), so I think they're really trying to get the rest of the EU to do something before they're seen as the only country in Europe that will accept refugees and are completely overwhelmed (their immigration and refugee assistance offices are overwhelmed, not that Germany will become Syrian).

shaki123 said:
Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies. They eventually end up in the country who will give them what they want (holland, germany etc). Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.
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Wow did you just start following this story last week? Most of them seek refuge in neighboring counries of Syria (Jordon, Turkey, Lebanon). Very few attempt to cross to Europe, it's usually a desperate act because they have no choice.
 
VICE News: Marching Through Police Lines: Breaking Borders (Dispatch 3)

shaki123 said:
Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies. They eventually end up in the country who will give them what they want (holland, germany etc). Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.
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Ok, then. Let's assume that's true. What are you going to do with them? Air drop them over Syria?

/And I also assume it's a move to force our neighbors to help out with the situation.
 
D4Danger said:
It only took a week for unregulated immigration to blow up in their face.

Who saw that coming except everyone
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Hundreds of thousands didn't come within the last week, it's been unregulated for some time now, no matter what that article from last week says.
 
JoeyJungle said:
I'm really suprised by this, this must be a temporary measure while the move the refugees so the areas near Austria aren't completely overwhelmed? Or a power play to force the rest of the EU to take measures to accept more refugees?

They've said repeatedly that they can take 500,000 refugees a year and they haven't hit that limit yet for this year (I think they're at around 300,000?), so I think they're really trying to get the rest of the EU to do something before they're seen as the only country in Europe that will accept refugees and are completely overwhelmed (their immigration and refugee assistance offices are overwhelmed, not that Germany will become Syrian).
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I think we already hit 400k.

This is not only about the EU though, at the moment it's only Bavaria and Northrhine Westfalia which are actively trying to deal with the situation. Other federal states are blocking because they supposedly already hit their limits, though everyone highly doubts that.
 
Regulus Tera said:
How many refugees are you hosting at home?
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Devil said:
Congrats on using like the oldest, worthless non-argument in existence of this discussion.
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.

shaki123 said:
Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies. They eventually end up in the country who will give them what they want (holland, germany etc). Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.
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Geez, inform yourself before posting. I'm sure many Syrians would stop and settle right on the spot if there were more countries along the way who would actually welcome, shelter and register them. Germany is the destination country because it did just that, not (just) because it may be the richest of the rich countries (which it isn't, relatively speaking). Wouldn't you assume they'd accept an improvement of their quality of life of about 1000% in France as well, instead of 1200% in Germany?
 
JoeyJungle said:
I'm really suprised by this, this must be a temporary measure while the move the refugees so the areas near Austria aren't completely overwhelmed? Or a power play to force the rest of the EU to take measures to accept more refugees?

They've said repeatedly that they can take 500,000 refugees a year and they haven't hit that limit yet for this year (I think they're at around 300,000?), so I think they're really trying to get the rest of the EU to do something before they're seen as the only country in Europe that will accept refugees and are completely overwhelmed (their immigration and refugee assistance offices are overwhelmed, not that Germany will become Syrian).
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They've said it's temporary, the local authorities are simply overwhelmed by the initial rush caused when they stated they're waiving the Dublin Regulation for Syrians. Even so, at the current rate they're going to end up way over the 500,000 limit. Someone posted on an earlier page that the train station in Munich received over 13,000 refugees just on Saturday. If that number was kept steady (not that it would, like I mentioned it's a temporary peak) that single train station would receive 1,35 million refugees before the year's over. So it's not exactly a surprise that Germany is feeling a bit overwhelmed. Even reinstating the Dublin Regulation wouldn't be enough at this point, they're basically running out of places and people to process that money at once.

I strongly suspect it's a political move too. Germany needs to show the rest of the EU members that just sitting back and doing nothing while feeling schadenfreude at Germany's expense isn't an option for them because that too will have consequences. Schengen isn't just for refugees, it's one of the most cherished EU institutions. Even hinting that it's on the table forces the remaining members to at least have some skin in the game.
 
shaki123 said:
Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies. They eventually end up in the country who will give them what they want (holland, germany etc). Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.
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They are also drawn, dying in backs of rollling/burning/cliff-tubling trafficant trucks. Oh, they also get treated like livestock by those same trafficants/local mafia. All that while taking selfies.

/smh

This is a real humanitarian calamity, and the more people realize it soon - the better for us all.
 
Sakujou said:
but still, take up those 2000 refugees. force them to stay. if they break the law, then they will face the consequences. every european country is an attractive country and should offer help.
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How? Put them into 21st century concentration camp with some factory in it, so they could work? Maybe some doctors could get some work in more remote towns, where our doctors do not want to work due to lower wages, but otherwise, we have huge unemployment issue here and young people are literally fleeing out of the country if they get a chance. Because it is that or fighting through the month on a minimum wage (believe me, going through that for last two years).

Plus, nationalistic movements are gathering strength and public opinion is turning far into negative. It will get far worse, if the migrant/refugee tide will shift from Hungary towards Croatia and Slovenia.
 
JoeyJungle said:
I'm really suprised by this, this must be a temporary measure while the move the refugees so the areas near Austria aren't completely overwhelmed? Or a power play to force the rest of the EU to take measures to accept more refugees?

They've said repeatedly that they can take 500,000 refugees a year and they haven't hit that limit yet for this year (I think they're at around 300,000?), so I think they're really trying to get the rest of the EU to do something before they're seen as the only country in Europe that will accept refugees and are completely overwhelmed (their immigration and refugee assistance offices are overwhelmed, not that Germany will become Syrian).
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It's not the total amount of refugees but the actual numbers in the past days. At this pace just the big cities like Munich, Berlin and Hamburg would easily reach that 500k number.
 
I'm laughing at those thinking that Merkel is surprised by the current situation, or backpadelling because of a temporary block and most likely a intended scheme to pressure the EU.
 
shaki123 said:
Most of them travel through rich countries (europe) while making selfies.

Most of the refugees are fleeing because of economical reasons. Sorry, but these people shouldnt be let in whatsoever. Full is full.
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Are we supposed to shoot people doing photos now? What idiocy... please don't tell me you are trying to make that "mobile phone" argument, oh please!

Bulgarians and other eastern europeans people maybe, but those aren't a vast majority as you make it sound. And yeah, I don't want those here either, as we got enough problems with employment/jobs ourselfs already.
 
PodcastFips said:
Please visit my lovely hometown called Munich and see what is going on.
You don't even remotely have a clue.
That is disgusting, to be honest.
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That is truly disgusting. Not the misguided German immigration policy, not the ill prepared European Union that ignored the problem for decades, not the fate of the refugees, nor the hypocrisy of German politics, but criticizing the temporary exit from Schengen as a sign of helplessness (and a pointless measure) and a consequence of decades of political failure, that is truly disgusting.

Truly only you can see that.

(Please do not take this as a personal attack. I just wanted to clarify things a bit further.)
 
DrM said:
How? Put them into 21st century concentration camp with some factory in it, so they could work? Maybe some doctors could get some work in more remote towns, where our doctors do not want to work due to lower wages, but otherwise, we have huge unemployment issue here and young people are literally fleeing out of the country if they get a chance. Because it is that or fighting through the month on a minimum wage (believe me, going through that for last two years).

Plus, nationalistic movements are gathering strength and public opinion is turning far into negative.
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Again, that's completely unnecessary. Just make the Right to Settle exclusive the EU citizens and you'll have solved it. No one is going to choose living illegally in Germany, with no right to social security or even work, over living legally in the Slovenia.

With a universal EU policy it is all but guaranteed that the quotas won't just be per capita based by taking local economies into the account too, it might even come with a universally funded system where richer members help support poorer ones pay for them - it would even be cheaper for the richer members, living costs are cheaper in the poorer nations too.

We don't have a choice here. The refugees aren't going away, they will keep coming no matter what policies we instate. Maybe the nationalistic parties are prepared to gun them down at the Hungarian border or sinking their ships in the Mediterranean but I seriously hope ordinary people aren't that monstrous.
 
El Topo said:
That is truly disgusting. Not the misguided German immigration policy, not the ill prepared European Union that ignored the problem for decades, not the fate of the refugees, nor the hypocrisy of German politics, but criticizing the temporary exit from Schengen as a sign of helplessness (and a pointless measure) and a consequence of decades of political failure, that is truly disgusting.

Truly only you can see that.
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lol, its everyones problem since we, the western world, welcomed the "arabian spring/revolution" or whatever. we were throwing money and guns into those countries. not facing the consequences would be ill. especially the US isnt doing much lately. i welcome the generous offer of Obama to take 10k of syrian refugees but this sounds to me like cherrypicking.
 
fizzelopeguss said:
You lot are beyond fucking dangerous.
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Just trying to guess the hidden agenda here.
Your pandering along with some other posters here doesn't help to alleviate the situation in the slightest.
What would you do in this situation? Let Southern Europe drown in refugees? Pack them into military transporters and air drop them over Syria?
 
El Topo said:
Absolutely disgusting.
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You think it's time to apply the Republican abortion approach to immigration? Don't worry about being able to provide for the immigrants needs just make sure they cross the threshold, after that it's someone else's problem.
 
Sakujou said:
lol, its everyones problem since we, the western world, welcomed the "arabian spring/revolution" or whatever. we were throwing money and guns into those countries. not facing the consequences would be ill. especially the US isnt doing much lately. i welcome the generous offer of Obama to take 10k of syrian refugees but this sounds to me like cherrypicking.
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The US can rub their hands, while letting the EU take care of their "help" in the middle east. :P I'm pretty sure that everyone is already aware that the eu and us is at fault for the situation, letting it escalate to such degree with their "aid supplies" a couple years back.
 
Sakujou said:
lol, its everyones problem since we, the western world, welcomed the "arabian spring/revolution" or whatever. we were throwing money and guns into those countries. not facing the consequences would be ill. especially the US isnt doing much lately. i welcome the generous offer of Obama to take 10k of syrian refugees but this sounds to me like cherrypicking.
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The "western world" didn't do anything beyond applauding the movements for standing up to tyranny in the beginning. What the hell else do suggest they should have done, supported the dictators and proclaimed that people of the Middle East are too inferior to have political freedom? They only "threw" money and guns (well, trickled really, they knew from experience to try to make sure it only got to the right people) after the likes of Qaddafi and Assad started massacring protesters in the thousands. Because again, what else were they supposed to do? Stand back and watch another genocide or two take place?

10 000 isn't a generous offer, it's a pittance. 100 000 might be on the right track - the US has a population comparable to the entire EU. 500 000 and we might be able to talk about generous.

Gintamen said:
The US can rub their hands, while letting the EU take care of their "help" in the middle east. :P I'm pretty sure that everyone is already aware that the eu and us is at fault for the situation, letting it escalate to such degree with their "aid supplies" a couple years back.
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Sure, because standing by and watching innocent people get slaughtered was obviously the correct thing to do at the time. Or maybe you're suggesting that assuming from the start that the Spring wouldn't work out would have been the obviously rational thing to do at the time because the Arabs obviously couldn't have handled democracy.
 
This was coming. It was inevitable. It was obvious from the start that Germany would not be able to cope with such a huge wave of refugees. They need to close those borders, ascertain their situation, build more shelters and provide infrastructure for the next wave of refugees. It is the smartest decision.
 
Sakujou said:
lol, its everyones problem since we, the western world, welcomed the "arabian spring/revolution" or whatever. we were throwing money and guns into those countries. not facing the consequences would be ill. especially the US isnt doing much lately. i welcome the generous offer of Obama to take 10k of syrian refugees but this sounds to me like cherrypicking.
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We've only given weapons to Kurds to defend themselves.
The revolution has grown into a proxy war between Iran/Russia and Turkey/Jordan/Gulf states. The fact that "western world" (in the company of the whole world, with the exception of pariah states like Russia) welcomed protests and revolutions against dictators now means that the whole proxy war that is taking place there right now is our fault? What a bunch of bull shit.
At least Turkey and Jordan do help, but the fact that neither Russia, nor U.S. (because you can at least pin Iraq war on them) do nothing or barely anything to solve the refugee crisis is what you should be on about. Gulf states should be in anyone's shit list already, so no reason mentioning them here.
 
poppabk said:
You think it's time to apply the Republican abortion approach to immigration? Don't worry about being able to provide for the immigrants needs just make sure they cross the threshold, after that it's someone else's problem.
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Are you really implying that the preferred alternative is "My border, my choice"? You should really get a better metaphor, because if you're honestly recommending we kill the refugees I don't know what to say. I assume you mean closing the border? The problem doesn't magically disappear if you close the border, it's still there, you've just loaded it onto a different country.

Sakujou said:
lol, its everyones problem since we, the western world, welcomed the "arabian spring/revolution" or whatever. we were throwing money and guns into those countries. not facing the consequences would be ill. especially the US isnt doing much lately. i welcome the generous offer of Obama to take 10k of syrian refugees but this sounds to me like cherrypicking.
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Don't even get me started on Western foreign policy or arms deals.
 
Nivash said:
Sure, because standing by and watching innocent people get slaughtered was obviously the correct thing to do at the time. Or maybe you're suggesting that assuming from the start that the Spring wouldn't work out would have been the obviously rational thing to do at the time because the Arabs obviously couldn't have handled democracy.
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I don't see a massive world wide attack against ISIS still, just pointy help here and there.

While I believe in democracy, I didn't believe that that region could handle the change, not now nor at the time. Any kurd could have told you from day 1 of the syrian war, that a big part of the rebels was supporting salafists.

Let's not further this off topic debate.
 
Gintamen said:
I don't see a massive world wide attack against ISIS still, just pointy help here and there.

While I believe in democracy, I didn't believe that that region could handle the change, not now nor at the time.

Let's not further this off topic debate.
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No need. I'm simply pointing out that hindsight is 20/20, foresight is 20/200. The western countries acted in the only way they could possibly have acted when accounting for their cultural and political natures. Even if they hadn't acted the Libyan and Syrian civil wars would still have taken place anyway. (As for ISIS that mainly has to do with a difficult strategic position, but I agree that's off topic).
 
kruis said:
Hmm... In 2011 native Dutchmen made up less than 50% of the population in Amsterdam. In 2015 this was true for Rotterdam and The Hague as well. So immigrants and their children are now a majority in the three biggest cities in the Netherlands.

See http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief/ruim-helft-inwoners-rotterdam-allochtoon~a3333431/ (Dutch)
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I can confirm that about Rotterdam from last weekend, going out it took me some time to spot some native netherlanders. The ratio is really somewhere around 1:1.
 
People keep saying other nations need to do their share. Most of these Refugee's do not want to go elsewhere. They want Germany or Austria. Fuck everywhere else. Keep harping on Eastern Europe that economically outside a few is still in poor shape from decades of Russian oppression.
 
Gintamen said:
There is nothing wrong with well integrated non natives living in another country.
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Problem is most aren't. Also, most criminality comes from "integrated non natives". This will be the downfall of Europe as we know it. It is already causing the downfall of the Netherlands for years and years.
 
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