Pretty much. Just seems like a BS false equivalence to me. This whole episode of the GB community completely flipping their shit over a 10 minute segment vaguely related to inclusion reflects poorly on the GB community and no one else, plain and simple. Trying to paint it as another skirmish in the eternal struggle between S Jay Dubyas and the GB community while doing the the whole infuriating southpark thing of "`~*maaaaayyyyyybbbe both sides are wrong*~" is stupid.
Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!
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Pretty much. Just seems like a BS false equivalence to me. This whole episode of the GB community completely flipping their shit over a 10 minute segment vaguely related to inclusion reflects poorly on the GB community and no one else, plain and simple. Trying to paint it as another skirmish in the eternal struggle between S Jay Dubyas and the GB community while doing the the whole infuriating southpark thing of "`~*maaaaayyyyyybbbe both sides are wrong*~" is stupid.
I dunno, I thought they were all pirates in that one so I didn't really get Alberto's analogy.
Cool!
The Dear Leader
Banned
The Fall looks really cool, definitely going to have to pick it up, and once again, Alex/Vinny QuickLooks are best QuickLooks.
I really disagree with your stance that both "sides" are at fault in these situations. It feels like justification for stuff that shouldn't be tolerated. People on Twitter were criticizing a public entity. They may have done with a harsh tone at points, but there's nothing wrong with that. Anyone should be allowed to say "yo, that's shit because reasons!" at any time. That is the beauty of the Internet. In a similar manner anyone of justified in answering those criticisms with arguments and comments.
What should not be tolerated in reasonable places is the answering of such complaints with slurs and threats or reacting with extreme hostility and grossness to the mere presence of a woman on a podcast. No, it isn't the whole Giant Bomb community doing this, but anyone that is doing this shit doesn't belong on the site.
Hot Coldman
Banned
*catches up on last few pages*
holy shit people are terrible
holy shit people are terrible
I think that's more a defensive statement to people saying that the GB community as a whole is "toxic" and such, and not people trying to downplay the problems that exist. You might argue that by saying that you are downplaying the problems, but I'd disagree with that as long as you say that there are problems that we need to work to fix.
Anyways, I'm off to work for 24 hours without the internet. Don't know how I'll survive.
Jimmyfenix
Member
I need my gb Chicago fill.
*catches up on this post*
holy shit this post is terrible
smh
I think, and maybe this is a poor assumption, but I've seen you very active the few times I've been on GB's comment section and forums, that you have a different take on the GB community because you're a part of it in a way few are in this thread.
newdayrocks
Member
My Giant Bomb subscription expires January 20, 2015. If GB hasn't hired a woman on full-time by then, I won't renew and I'll drop their podcast like a bad habit.
It's halfway through 2014, and they're one of the few gaming sites with 100% white dudes. Shameful.
It's halfway through 2014, and they're one of the few gaming sites with 100% white dudes. Shameful.
The fact that enough posters were comfortable enough to post vile shit is an indictment on the community. There's a certain modicum of self-moderation that should exist in a polite community, and it just wasn't there.
Are you saying there's some Stockholm Syndrome going on here with me and the GB community?
If you go by that standard, pretty much every community is awful. Threads about social issues on GAF often get really ugly, to give you one example. But fair enough if you apply the same measure for every community.
I can almost guarantee that they won't have hired a woman by then. Frankly, I don't see them hiring ANYBODY else by then.
They lost Ryan and it still took just shy of a year to hire new people. I suspect next round of hires to be Q2 2015.
The Dear Leader
Banned
Patrick needs a buddy to work with in Chicago, I'm not a fan of the solo Quicklooks he does.
About halfway through the bombcast now and the only things bothering me is Brad being totally unable to keep the show rolling forward without long instances of musing/sidetracking. I don't mind going off topic for a bit but the podcast really needs someone who can give it some direction (and humor) when Jeff isn't there. Just makes me miss Patrick and Vinny on the bombcast even more.
newdayrocks
Member
I suspect you're right, and that's why their hiring Dan R. was such a super huge bummer, at least for me. And they wonder why they're getting posts like the shit they got overnight ...
Spend 5 minutes looking anywhere on the internet where social/gender/sexuality issues are mentioned (even on this very own forum - just read some of the shit in the recent 'would you date a transgender person?' thread) and you'll see a mountain of bile. Go ask Carolyn what her years at Gamespot have been like, or Patricia at Kotaku.
Everywhere people are having to heavily moderate, or just turn off, comments. Everywhere people are reporting tons of abuse on twitter and other social media. The situation is shit. As Rorie himself has mentioned several times, a lot of it is forming outside of GB then worming its way over there in waves of new accounts.
So yeah, no shit their community is going to get defensive over something that is completely out of their control. You're equating the problem to attitudes seen in larger movements like '#YesAllWomen', but they're not inherently similar. One is raising awareness to the problems women face that men don't even see, while the other is expressing concern that a massive community which has done a lot of good is unable to stop themselves being painted with a board brush.
Atomic Edge
Banned
Seriously?
Their editorial staff is pretty small. What percentage of the gaming press as a whole are white dudes? I bet percentage wise GB are bang on trend.
If you actually, truly don't care about peoples skin colour, sexual orientation, gender etc, then I would, I imagine, in the gaming press, end up with white dudes.
Sure, there always the argument for positive discrimination, but if you honestly don't give a shit, why should these guys be frowned on?
There are a lot of ignorant, uneducated fucks on this forum. Which isn't surprising considering the level of activity here.
Hot Coldman
Banned
...I wasn't talking about people in this thread :|
You should probably tweet this or post it on one of the team's Tumblrs if you want any action, I know some of the GB peeps read this thread but it's not guaranteed to be acknowledged in the same way.
My mistake then, I apologize for my poor reading comprehension.
This drama is all pretty stupid but I have to say I found the last Bombcast pretty boring. Samantha was fine but as usual when they have quests on, I kinda lose interest. Jeff Green, Brad from Double Fine, Johny V and Jared are the only ones that have been hilarious on the show. Also, when both Jeff and Vinny are missing it kinda gets boring.
Watcing The Fall QL right now, the aesthetic reminds me (like Vinny mentioned) of the Swapper so much. Game seems great!
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Watcing The Fall QL right now, the aesthetic reminds me (like Vinny mentioned) of the Swapper so much. Game seems great!
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
My favourite thing about this was the multiple angry #notallgiantbomb replies.
I hope that's a core element of your new rules going forward.
Couldn't agree more, it looks like people are trying to shifting as much blame away from the community as possible. Gross.
I won't be renewing my subscription when it expires for the same reason.
People being hired should with the aim of who is best for the job, or who has most potential in the job. It should not be ascribed to filing other groups, although it would be great if we got other races/colours/etc on the show. Moreover, Giantbomb staff is relatively very small to other websites, and when working with the *apparent* proportions and statistics of women in the games journalism bushiness, you can see why there has not been one hired too.
You don't have to wait especially looking that it probably won't happen.
A number of community members on the other side of the coin already did after being banned because they wanted things to stay the same.
coughlanio
Member
Is it really progressing the feminist cause by hiring a woman just for the sake of hiring a woman? You're just promoting the idea of tokenism instead of true equality.
Part of me wants to point out that not renewing subscriptions actually harms their effort to expand hiring, but then I also realize that it's the most effective way to convey your displeasure with how they run things. It's like a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation.
I also feel bad for Jeff, who I believe hired the person he honestly felt was the best fit for the position. Unfortunately, it wasn't a woman this time, but I'm sure he'd love to hire a woman when he can. But that opens up the "if not now, when" conversation, and ugh we're down the rabbit hole.
In fact, I'm partially curious if this vacation was always planned, or if the recent nastiness took its toll on him.
For now, I'm going to appreciate GB for what it is. When they do announce the next hiring window, I'll definitely be rooting for a woman, but I also understand that there is literally nothing they can do right now except for bringing on more female guests, which I think they realize they need to do and appear to actually be doing.
Hot Coldman
Banned
nvm, lost my train of thought
Jimmyfenix
Member
What happened to 1001 spikes? We need scoops content.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
I trust that they hire the best people for the job. I have 0 issues with whom they hired and if they hire a female/minority/a suspicious space alien that might be a space nazi then i have 100% confidence that they picked the right person for the job. If people do not approve of their hirings because of race/gender/any other thing I think that's pretty unfair to the new hires because those are not things the new hires can fix or be faulted for.
If you tell me you don't like dan because he'd rather have milk than poopy pool water then fine, seems like you at least gave the guy a shot.
If you tell me you don't like dan because he'd rather have milk than poopy pool water then fine, seems like you at least gave the guy a shot.
Relax, people. Cara will be next.
Also, GB would hire everyone and their dog if they could. It will never be up to them, so continuing to subscribe now after Dan's been hired but making up a deadline for them _in the future_ seems really disingenuous. They're back to being powerless when it comes to hiring people, it's the sad reality. I'm not in a position to tell anyone what to do with their money, though, obviously.
Scoops looking for that spark again.
Also, GB would hire everyone and their dog if they could. It will never be up to them, so continuing to subscribe now after Dan's been hired but making up a deadline for them _in the future_ seems really disingenuous. They're back to being powerless when it comes to hiring people, it's the sad reality. I'm not in a position to tell anyone what to do with their money, though, obviously.
Scoops looking for that spark again.
cr_blah_blah
Member
The strangest thing to me is Samantha absolutely conducts herself in the way people who usually have issues with "social justice" would seemingly want. Many times in threads about feminism or social issues the common complaint is about the "tone", "agenda", and "unfair slights", causing them to be defensive to the actual issues. Feel attacked, get defensive and dumb. I can comprehend that as silly as it is.
In this case, Samantha was positive, polite, and basically completely inoffensive. Whatever was being said that got the comments locked or on Twitter were only based on her being a girl and not some perceived slight or agenda. Everyone was happy with her there and she seemed really pleased about it all. So I can't even place how these people justify being upset about any of it besides just being kind of shitty.
In this case, Samantha was positive, polite, and basically completely inoffensive. Whatever was being said that got the comments locked or on Twitter were only based on her being a girl and not some perceived slight or agenda. Everyone was happy with her there and she seemed really pleased about it all. So I can't even place how these people justify being upset about any of it besides just being kind of shitty.
Jimmyfenix
Member
TheHollowNight
Member
Jeez, I enjoyed Samantha on the show as a guest. I honestly didn't realize such a huge shitstorm exploded out of this.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I probably won't be renewing because there hasn't been much in the way of good subscriber content for a while, maybe a good video every two weeks since April or May. UPFs are extremely boring with one or two interesting segments and then a lot of filler and I don't listen to the subscriber podcasts.
I'll still use GB the site but I don't see a compulsion to give them $30 - $50 a year for access to a section I am not really enjoying.
I'll still use GB the site but I don't see a compulsion to give them $30 - $50 a year for access to a section I am not really enjoying.
It's this. Well, except they were being really shitty.
We've been through this argument and it's not very good really. It's a video game website, what does 'best for the job' even mean?
At the moment I'm not bothered about the white dudes thing as much as I am regarding how much Dan apparently doesn't know about that wasn't already covered. He fits in well and I enjoy his content but I can't imagine a safer pick.
Tried it for an hour or so last night. The game seems legitimately really interesting. Going to play it through when I can and see how it turns out.
TrafalgarLaw
Banned
Yes, how dare a community defend themselves from the notion that it's a bottomless cesspit now. You are free to cancel your sub for whatever reason but it's unfair to anyone involved to say the hirings were not inclusive enough, two positions being added to a skeleton crew of five.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think Dan works because he's exactly like Jeff with a few different opinions.
But I don't find him very interesting because he's exactly like Jeff with a few different opinions.
But I don't find him very interesting because he's exactly like Jeff with a few different opinions.
'Best for the job' could mean fitting best with the group of people, having unusually good or different opinions on certain areas, or other criteria that we are oblivious to since we are the consumer. I am sure that Dan was picked for the best reasons on Jeff's part above the rest. Although I do understand there is a blurred line with Giantbomb with 'fitting with the group' and being good at editorial/other criteria. I agree there could have been a more unusual 'pick' but perhaps Jeff felt they needed someone a bit closer to the group since Giantbomb was effectively splitting. But then, would that unusual pick have been a man or a woman? Who knows.
newdayrocks
Member
Maybe a few years ago, but most of them (Polygon, Kotaku, Joystiq) have at least one woman and several people of color on their staff at this point. GB just keeps rolling on with the status quo.
No one cares about jimmy
#notallrobots
Likewise, I would have no problem acknowledging that there are bigots in the community. In no way am I trying to say that we should be dismissive toward that criticism. My original comment was directed at the "GB community is awful" comments that keep popping up here.
I'm not sure I entirely agree. Certainly, if you identify a specific case of "this person did this horrible thing, so he is a horrible person" and I use the "Well, not all of us are like that"... that is an useless statement. However, if you say "this person did this horrible thing, so all of you are horrible" then you have forced me into a defensive position where I must defend myself with the "Not all of us" argument.
So he's not exactly like Jeff then
. He likes Nintendo games, that in and of itself, should be welcome to a staff who is largely disinterested in their products.newdayrocks
Member
Yep. Did exactly that last night.
newdayrocks
Member
It's broke, buddy.
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