Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
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Heh, yeah. I also don't get the big difference between locking a comment section and locking a forum thread (which the mods at GB do all the time).
Anyways, The Fall QL today. That game looks really cool, even if the name is pretty terrible. Not gonna lie though, I hope they start a regular Premium feature soon (Breaking Brad, a new thing, whatever).
Or maybe lock a new Endruance Run behind the paywall?
Yeah, that's not how things work. You're generalizing an absurd amount here.
It's good to see that you're damning a whole community because of the way some assholes behave. I could point you to numerous awful threads about social issues here on GAF, the thread about the GB hiring controversy among them, but I don't go around saying that the whole GAF community is shitty because of it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You know you can't really focus on one part of the community being shitty and ignore the others parts not being shitty in order to stand in your moral high ground.
Doesn't really work.
Doesn't really work.
I think we can agree that the GB community is made up of multiple individuals, some less savoury than others, but it's a huge hyperbolic stretch to call them out for a "completely exclusionary hiring practice" when all we really know is the outcome of said process.
I've never played Shadowgate so I found it more enlightening rather than funny (the writing in the game is plenty funny on its own though). If you skip near the last ten minutes or so they change things up a bit.
Keyser Soze
Member
The Shadowgate QLEX is quickly starting to feel like one of those rare QL I turn off. Just 5 minutes in (paused the video to write this), and I am getting the feeling the guy is very much reading of a script, and does not want to deviate. In that short amount of time, I feel like I am been dedicated to, and that is not a fun listen. The guy even interrupts Brad at one point. THE NERVE!
Any reason to keep going with this?
Any reason to keep going with this?
You should at least skip to about 35 minutes in, when they
start playing the original Shadowgate
Seconded.
Also, I wanna say the guy gets better as the QL moves along. I thought it'd be a sour fruit in the beginning, as well.
Yeah, he seems to be going through the motions a bit too much in the first 10 or so minutes. But the last part especially is great since he obviously hadn't prepared on seeing the original again
Keyser Soze
Member
Thanks. I will keep going. I guess the guy involved pretty much had no experience of GB before the QL, and it took him a while to get into the right mood to meld with crew. The start did feel overly cold though (really offputting) - really needed a Vinny to lighten the mood.
Keyser Soze
Member
I just got to "Eat Torch," everything is good again!
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
You have any proof for that? No? Huh
Atomic Edge
Banned
More like Brad Shoecaster!
I enjoyed the Bombcast this week. Samantha seemed cool. Dropped a lot of knowledge!
My only minor gripe, and this may be due to my own ignorance, but I had never heard the word cisgender before (which for the record Google is trying to auto-correct to Transgender) so I had to Google it. I can understand it's use case, "Normal" wouldn't make sense for someone who was trans to use. However is the word in such common use that it can be dropped into conversation and expect everyone to catch on?
That being said, being at GaymerX probably gets you in the frame of mind that everyone would know what you are talking about!
I enjoyed the Bombcast this week. Samantha seemed cool. Dropped a lot of knowledge!
My only minor gripe, and this may be due to my own ignorance, but I had never heard the word cisgender before (which for the record Google is trying to auto-correct to Transgender) so I had to Google it. I can understand it's use case, "Normal" wouldn't make sense for someone who was trans to use. However is the word in such common use that it can be dropped into conversation and expect everyone to catch on?
That being said, being at GaymerX probably gets you in the frame of mind that everyone would know what you are talking about!
Prime crotch
Banned
fuck, what are games maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan - patrick's article
From my understanding the use of the word cisgender has become more popular due to stuff like Tumblr, where people who are gay or transgender can put so called 'norms' into a group.
Nah, it's definitely still not used enough in common parlance to expect one to instantly understand it. I suspect its usage will only continue to grow as the discussion around it bubbles to mass consciousness.
Atomic Edge
Banned
Okay, well it's good to know I wasn't being completely behind the times! On the plus side, I totally learn't something today!
Also, I bet Dan Googled cisgender on his phone mid bombcast.
As far as I understand it, the term is widely used among academics who work in the field of gender studies etc. But it's so far mostly known by activists, scholars and people in the community where it's used widely (I'm gay and had never heard of it before I read it somewhere on GAF, so being gay doesn't automatically mean that you know a lot about this stuff I guess). I think the term will need an explanation for a long time when you're speaking to "outsiders".
Pseudo-quoting myself from the podcast thread:
I was curious about this awhile ago, as it is a term I have been familiar with for some time (academic background), but have only seen it appearing (in places other than where I'd expect to see it) on the internet rather recently. Google Trends corroborates this:
Unhandled Exception
Member
These are fair and reasonable opinions to have seeing as how Giant Bomb has been completely transparent with their hiring process. A few posts in a comments section do totally represent anyone who visits the same site, too. To be honest, it's how I know I'm a total piece of garbage because I've watched some videos on youtube.
Hell, I breathe the same air as these people! We're practically twinsies.
Atomic Edge
Banned
I still find it a little odd that the whole "LGBT" thing includes the "T". You can identify as a man and be into men. If a guy/girl is identified as cisgender, is it also implied that he/she is also straight, even though that label wouldn't technically fit? Sorry I'm getting off topic.
Cisgender does not have anything to do with your sexual orientation, it means that you identify with your gender. LGBT came about in an earlier, more political context, I think, and the acronym has since been expanded upon.
Yeah, I think that's largely correct. The Wikipedia article explains the context of Cis pretty well. I'll freely admit that I'm often confused about this stuff aswell. I'm the "go to gay guy" in my group of friends, but find that I'm as ignorant on most things LGBT as the general population. I've always more or less just cared about the "G" of "LGBT". It's good that this stuff is getting a wider audience though.
Atomic Edge
Banned
Yeah I got that, I just wondered if the word was evolving.
Ignorant Cisgender Hetro over here, learnin'!
NumberThree
Member
I think the group/community could use a better term than LGBT, since a silly acronym like that is always going to exclude some people who should be included - and it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Queer seems to have too much negative connotations (both ways, really).
It's also made its way into literary studies in a broad fashion, so I'm having to deal with the topic a lot myself. Which is fine, it's a very interesting subject. While I have the strongest doubts that gender studies are viable as literary theory with its own set of legs, yet, I have no doubts that they are an indispensable supplement at the moment.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. You were wondering why the T was part of LGBT because LGB refer to sexual orientation whereas T does not. You're absolutely correct, but my point was that it was created in a political context as a unifying acronym by the queer community. The distinction between cis and trans was started in academic discourse and is now a widely-accepted, more "technical" antonymic distinction. Like I said, on the community side, the acronym is modified sometimes to include transgender, intersex, etc.
stump sock
Member
as a "cisgender" male, I object to having that title applied to myself. do I get a say?
Anyway, I haven't been paying attention, but I'm guessing people are being shitty about Samantha being on the podcast? I thought she was an interesting guest. People on the internet are just the worst.
Anyway, I haven't been paying attention, but I'm guessing people are being shitty about Samantha being on the podcast? I thought she was an interesting guest. People on the internet are just the worst.
SteveWinwood
Member
this is so embarrassing
I think one possible partial solution to GB's comment situation while retaining its "openness" is to impose a waiting period after registration. Simply make it so that you can't post comments until 24 hours after you verify your e-mail address.
I suspect that a lot of the shit posters simply reregister right away, so they're never really driven away.
I'm guessing a lot of the people who are shit commenting don't have the patience to wait a whole day before posting their comment, so I can see that cutting down on the drek. It's not a silver bullet, but I think it'll help.
I suspect that a lot of the shit posters simply reregister right away, so they're never really driven away.
I'm guessing a lot of the people who are shit commenting don't have the patience to wait a whole day before posting their comment, so I can see that cutting down on the drek. It's not a silver bullet, but I think it'll help.
Three hires in the lifetime of Giant Bomb isn't really exclusionary - especially considering Patrick was originally hired with the intention of a 'news' writer and there weren't any women in the industry back then known for breaking big news stories (are there even any now?). So that's a really simplistic way of looking at the problem and ignores that GB was founded by the people willing to walk out of the door when Jeff was hired.
But I do actually think GB is partially responsible for the current attitudes displayed, but in a more indirect way -
As a website GB has been in a perpetual state for a very long time - almost an eternity for editorial standards. This is an industry where publications disappear without notice, staff changes happen at least every 6 months, popular podcasts/'groups' like GFW disband, your favourite personalities transition to dev, and video features/shows change every time a manager comes along with a "new vision".
In the face of all of that, GB has been a bit of a rock. Yeah they've moved office a couple times, had a few content droughts and even suffered the loss of Ryan - but by and large, the last 6 years have been a constant stream of Bombcasts, QLs, great features and occasionally dumb/brilliant bullshit.
I'm not in any way trying to defend or justify the heinous shit the community sometimes comes out with, but it's the reaction of people who've had a very stable source of entertainment for years reacting to their perceived notion of change. Hell, just look at how they reacted to something as minor as Patrick's arrival - by your standards he was 'inclusionary'. The reaction on GB isn't abnormal or unexpected, it's just the way people react to perceived change and things which don't effect them. That's then compounded by the fact a lot of people purely visit the site for entertainment and, rightly or wrongly, don't expect to hear anything remotely 'serious' or outside the laser-like focus on what they've come to expect.
There's also an argument to be made that a lot of the social/gender/sexuality issues frequently being brought up in gaming aren't reflected in the outside world unless you seek them out. Yes, these issues are important, but for a lot of people this is the first they're hearing about them. Hell, our office has about 4 openly gay people, I personally have 2 gay friends, but the first time I heard the word 'cis' was from an article linked on GAF.
No, not really. Trans people are rarely just identified as plainly men or women either.
I agree. GB has always been against doing stuff like that (they have a 5 posts max in the first 24 hours, I think), and I can understand why. But as long as you're open about it when people register so they don't think it's a bug or anything, I think the good outweighs the bad. Or maybe meet in the middle so that people can post right away, but what you post have to be approved by a mod in the first 24 hours?
SteveWinwood
Member
why do you object?
ab.aeterno
Member
Yes, not everyone on the Giant Bomb community is an asshole, and there are plenty of regular or good people in the community. I think most rational people would agree. The problem is that that's true of almost all communities, and pointing it out unduly minimizes the impact caused and too often dismisses that section as unimportant instead of determining to excise it. It ventures close to being #NotAllGiantBombFans, which isn't a productive thing to point out and absolves the community of its responsibility to make it known that assholes aren't welcome.
The Giant Bomb community, like the gaming community at large, has issues with inclusivity. We can either wring our hands about the fact that it's likely a small percent and it's unfair people paint us broadly, or we can start trying to fix the community by saying "knock it the fuck off" when we see people act shitty on our behalf. We're not responsible for what others say, but we are responsible for the attitude and tone the entire community projects. And the one that comes across when a thread gets locked for the premier content because a woman is on and talks about diversity for 15 minutes is not one I care for others to see. It's embarrassing.
In terms of the word "cis", unfortunately I feel that the anti-feminist/MRA groups have done a remarkable job demonizing that word. As with an earlier poster, for the longest time I thought it was a pejorative word. I suspect we're not the only ones. The result of that is that I think many see the word used in even an innocent context and feel that they are being attacked, and are thus inclined to immediately disagree with anything else the person is saying, even if they're using cis in a purely descriptive term.
It doesn't help that many white cis hetero people are unused to being labeled, and don't like the feeling that comes with it. A further sign of privilege (another word that the MRA has effectively demonized, I think).
It doesn't help that many white cis hetero people are unused to being labeled, and don't like the feeling that comes with it. A further sign of privilege (another word that the MRA has effectively demonized, I think).
I think we all agree, really.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I mean, if they're moderating them to the point of deleting posts, banning people and locking up the comments section of their podcast, it's probably safe to say that they are determined to excise that part of the community.
stump sock
Member
it's weird, maybe just the area I live in then. I personally know 4 trans people (who transitioned while I've known them) and have never seen anybody address them as anything but he/him she/her.
I feel like everybody is just making everything harder for themselves. If someone says "I'm male," address them as male and move on with your life. I feel like it shouldn't be that difficult.
There's plenty of things in life that people should worry about without having to make more frustrations for themselves like worrying about other people's self-identities.
like I kind of said above, I just don't think it's anybody's business to categorize anybody but themselves. I do understand that some of this is coming as a reaction to minorities being unfairly defined by other people, but I'm also not sure that trying to do that to people of "privilege" is really helping anything either.
Maybe I am a white, straight, cis-gendered male, but people don't know anything about me. If I say I'm male then end of story, that's how I would prefer to be treated/recognized. And I think that should go for anybody.
I'm disappointed in you, sir!
Everyone is well aware that it is the glorious Swedish version that is the best one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJglAxMaJeQ
ab.aeterno
Member
I know, but sometimes it seems worth reiterating, particularly when it comes to "not all" arguments. As someone who sees it comes up in every gaming thread that touches social issues ("not all gamers are homophobic/racist/sexist!"), it makes me disappointed whenever I see it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I dunno, while I agree that I can see how people might see it the way you do, I mostly think that it's just a way for people to try to distance themselves from the homophobes/misogynists/transphobes, which I think is an indication that such things shouldn't be allowed in a community.
Keyser Soze
Member
This whole controversy, and how it keeps flaring up is getting on my nerves.
Both sides need to step back and cool down. There is a small section of the GB community that is toxic, sure, but there is a small section of every community (internet or not) that will always try to direct things into chaos.
I feel that when it is easy to lay blame at some members of the GB community for reacting the way they did, some members that sit on the other side of the argument are hardly without blame either. Some on that side are far too vocal about their current criticism of the site, and seem all to happy to pair community unrest with the supposed opinion of the whole staff of the site.
That is not a good way to get your opinions heard, and it will just lead to more chaos in the long run. Both sides are basically just fighting or the sake of fighting now, with little to no urge of wanting to find a fix to both their problems.
I really feel both side are going to be going around in circles forever on this topics, and that going to be horrible to experience.
Both sides need to step back and cool down. There is a small section of the GB community that is toxic, sure, but there is a small section of every community (internet or not) that will always try to direct things into chaos.
I feel that when it is easy to lay blame at some members of the GB community for reacting the way they did, some members that sit on the other side of the argument are hardly without blame either. Some on that side are far too vocal about their current criticism of the site, and seem all to happy to pair community unrest with the supposed opinion of the whole staff of the site.
That is not a good way to get your opinions heard, and it will just lead to more chaos in the long run. Both sides are basically just fighting or the sake of fighting now, with little to no urge of wanting to find a fix to both their problems.
I really feel both side are going to be going around in circles forever on this topics, and that going to be horrible to experience.
In this particular case I think it was more a reaction to a few people saying that the whole GB community is toxic and shit like that. I think we all can agree that the GB community, like pretty much all gaming communities, have problems when it comes to this and that we need to work to make it better. But it doesn't help when either side generalize too much, it just makes people defensive.
If you're talking about two weeks ago, then yeah, we've already established that both sides were not without blame. This hardly applies to the Bombcast outrage, though, does it?
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