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[Joeku]

Thematically I love Bayonetta, she's 100% exploitation and that's one of my filmy jams. But there's nothing to her beyond that. Her sexuality is consistent through cutscense, gameplay and QTEs without a doubt and it's great! But that means it's also really easy to understand the character.

Abby might have only seen a short amount of footage but that;s still enough to understand the character because everything she does is so consistent no matter if it's gameplay, cutscene or QTE. I just don't think the "someone who knows the game but the other person doesn't" defence holds up.

In (a ludicrous) defense of the game, nothing in Bayonetta makes any sense until the last, what, eighth? It's just batshit crazy shit for seemingly no reason that all gets backfilled at the end. The weird storytelling almost makes it easier to deal with Bayo's shit because she's kind of putting on a show, too, and just rolling with the punches. She doesn't know what the hell's going on either.

Frankly, and this is sad, but Bayonetta 2 being clearer from the beginning probably made it a weaker game. The universe really didn't get much bigger. And fuck that shitty kid and his forced walking segments, too.

 

[saveweyard]

Watching the GBE Megadate and I'm reminded that Abby and I have the exact same reaction to horror games. I'm actually probably worse than her because I can barely watch the stream even knowing these games are more bad than scary.

 

[Alucrid]

Alex, Brad, Dan and Bianca are playing a PUBG tourney, Will Smith and Alex on are on the same team

Wills stream: https://www.twitch.tv/notthatwillsmith
Host link: https://www.twitch.tv/gamesbeat

Edit: Oh yea Whitta and Dave Lang as well (among other people I prob. forgot).

damn will is pretty good

 

[drabnon]

I haven't played Bayonetta 2 so my opinions on the character are purely from the first game. But I like her a lot. She's basically a female version of Dante. The world she belongs to is insane, and she's just rolling with the punches.

I think the "sexualization vs empowerment" arguments have some merit but Bayonetta is so crazy that I find it hard to think of her character in those terms.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Thematically I love Bayonetta, she's 100% exploitation and that's one of my filmy jams. But there's nothing to her beyond that. Her sexuality is consistent through cutscense, gameplay and QTEs without a doubt and it's great! But that means it's also really easy to understand the character.

Abby might have only seen a short amount of footage but that;s still enough to understand the character because everything she does is so consistent no matter if it's gameplay, cutscene or QTE. I just don't think the "someone who knows the game but the other person doesn't" defence holds up.

The thing about it being baked into the gameplay though is that I kind of think you have to actually control the character to kind of get it? Bayonetta isn't just about "oh the more I use my attacks the I get nekkid", she literally uses sex as a weapon. Her gameplay really does exude bold, sexy and confidence, and while I'm not going to claim that is what feminism is about, there is a big strain of feminism that is basically that. Taking back control of their sex.

Which is immediately contradicted by the fact that she is created and directed by mostly men. Which is what I meant when I typed what I wrote last night. She is bold, sexy and confident, but what does it mean when it's done from the whims of male creators? Are male creators allowed to create such characters? Is it just more about the problem of gaming being so male dominated creators wise?

 

[Death Metalist]

PUBG will win GOTY simply for the fact that it made people get professional streaming setups lol

 

[chogidogs]

I agree that playing it would probably help understanding her. At a certain point I stopped noticing her being naked and was just in awe of the badshit crazy things that are happening in her attacks.

But yeah, not liking the game looking from the outside is totally fair. How they presented that game in trailers (with the crotch zooms and all) even made me skeptical when it was announced.

 

[BTA]

I remember reading a lot of stuff after the fact that highlighted just how not stereotypically Japanese sexy she is. Heels (and other catwalk aesthetic), no huge boobs, big stupid natural hair colour, superhero head:body ratio instead of anime stuff, the ridiculous back-breaking standing pose, etc. She's certainly sexualized to hell and back, but in a very atypical manner compared to usual games out of Japan.

See, I really couldn't

Spoiler

let Jodi go early. I kept her until second last (felt appropriate for Volfred there). I knew that she had more story to tell with the pompadour asshole demon guy who was actually an amazing character, but honestly, she just became my rock. Couldn't let her go.

Spoiler

See hearing that is one of those things that makes me want to play it again once I finish because I never really got much story from him after! I wish I'd sent Hedwyn instead; I really liked him too (I mean, I like everyone a whole bunch) but IIRC he was worthy too and I don't think it was worth keeping him in comparison.

Well, I guess feeling this regret is the point.

My second to last was Gilman, who is precious and I love him. I'm trying to have Volfred be my last as well.

 

[trs1080]

damn will is pretty good

Yeah he's good, though he does get camped on a lot when I've watched heh.

BTW they are inviting viewers to play next. Everyone kill Dan.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Also speaking of female characters taking control of their sexuality, Zero from drakengard 3 is like one of the most sexually aggressive female leads in gaming that isn't in like an actual sex game, and this is mostly from her dominating the situation too.

And while the director is a man (Yoko taro), but he pretty works with female writers mostly for all his games.

https://twitter.com/eggloaf/status/844733279743881217?lang=en

So while drakengard 3 is a trash (but fascinating) game, I think sexually strong female characters shouldn't necessarily be taboo from gaming. Just make it so that women have a say when you want to represent them as seuxally strong.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

The thing about it being baked into the gameplay though is that I kind of think you have to actually control the character to kind of get it? Bayonetta isn't just about "oh the more I use my attacks the I get nekkid", she literally uses sex as a weapon. Her gameplay really does exude bold, sexy and confidence, and while I'm not going to claim that is what feminism is about, there is a big strain of feminism that is basically that. Taking back control of their sex.

I've just always seen it as fetishism. Nothing in the narrative justifies her doing that, it's pretty much impossible to justify. It works as an exploitation piece because obviously she'd just do the most over the top thing. Outside of that her method of attack makes no sense.

Which is immediately contradicted by the fact that she is created and directed by mostly men. Which is what I meant when I typed what I wrote last night. She is bold, sexy and confident, but what does it mean when it's done from the whims of male creators? Are male creators allowed to create such characters? Is it just more about the problem of gaming being so male dominated creators wise?

I think male creators can make such characters, I think their works can be entertaining, but I think we still need to acknowledge what they are and why they were made, and question why no female team have made something similar at that point.

To clarify my stance I just don't think Bayonetta forcing the one clearly female angel in the game to orgasm over a wooden pony is entertaining because she's a sex positive hero, I think it's funny because it's absurdest exploitation.

Trying to make her into a sex-positive protagonist detracts from games thatfeature sex positive female heroes in a more realistic way.

 

[BTA]

Has anyone from Beast played through Anatomy all the way? That'd be a rad thing to see them stream.

Playing that with like... 6 or 7? I think? friends was great. I have no idea why everyone in that friend group happened to be free that night but I'm glad we ended up playing that together and jumping at things in unison. People got scared enough that we had to switch who was driving it a couple times early on.

...anyway, the Bequest QL got a little too creepy for me sitting out in my apartment's main room by myself with space behind me, but now I'm wrapped up in blankets and can comfortably watch what the fuck's about to go down. There's, uh, a reason I mostly like to play horror games not by myself.

 

[DanLongman]

ITT dudes talking about the protrayal of woman in videogames.

Let's change the topic please.

Upf was great

 

[dannyglover]

Yeah he's good, though he does get camped on a lot when I've watched heh.

BTW they are inviting viewers to play next. Everyone kill Dan.

I've had the volume off while talking to the roommates. What's going on in the PUBG stream?

 

[trs1080]

I've had the volume off while talking to the roommates. What's going on in the PUBG stream?

Squad games with the same people + randos from chat. I think they are doing zombies later.

 

[Joeku]

I've just always seen it as fetishism. Nothing in the narrative justifies her doing that, it's pretty much impossible to justify. It works as an exploitation piece because obviously she'd just do the most over the top thing. Outside of that her method of attack makes no sense.



I think male creators can make such characters, I think their works can be entertaining, but I think we still need to acknowledge what they are and why they were made, and question why no female team have made something similar at that point.

To clarify my stance I just don't think Bayonetta forcing the one clearly female angel in the game to orgasm over a wooden pony is entertaining because she's a sex positive hero, I think it's funny because it's absurdest exploitation.

Trying to make her into a sex-positive protagonist detracts from games thatfeature sex positive female heroes in a more realistic way.

That's the one thing in the game that actually bothers me, weirdly, in that "what if someone else walks through the room and sees this" kind of cringey way.

 

[Death Metalist]

ITT dudes talking about the protrayal of woman in videogames.

Let's change the topic please.

Upf was great

I mean it's not like we banned women here or something lol, if any women are lurking we'd love to read more opinions. It's a nice discussion I feel especially since it's the weekend but anyways, that's just me.

 

[Dangansona]

Improv seems awful.

 

[OdysseusVA]

what are peoples opinion on nier lady? skirt and thong?

 

[saveweyard]

Yeah he's good, though he does get camped on a lot when I've watched heh.

BTW they are inviting viewers to play next. Everyone kill Dan.

I'm in. I'll do my best to kill Dan.

 

[J_Viper]

what are peoples opinion on nier lady? skirt and thong?

Sexualized or not, I think both 2B and A2 are great designs

 

[Joeku]

Improv seems awful.

Keep in mind Improv warmups are not improv proper (but big stage improv can be very lame).

Running through a row of tires isn't exactly exciting compared to football, either.

Also Giant Bomb itself is a big series of usually video game themed improv prompts. So...

 

[Antiwhippy]

I've just always seen it as fetishism. Nothing in the narrative justifies her doing that, it's pretty much impossible to justify. It works as an exploitation piece because obviously she'd just do the most over the top thing. Outside of that her method of attack makes no sense.



I think male creators can make such characters, I think their works can be entertaining, but I think we still need to acknowledge what they are and why they were made, and question why no female team have made something similar at that point.

To clarify my stance I just don't think Bayonetta forcing the one clearly female angel in the game to orgasm over a wooden pony is entertaining because she's a sex positive hero, I think it's funny because it's absurdest exploitation.

Trying to make her into a sex-positive protagonist detracts from games thatfeature sex positive female heroes in a more realistic way.

Thing is that there aren't.... that many? If any? Lol.

Like I think Zero is one, but everything else kinda just trends towards feitishism

I mean I agree with you somewhat, seeing that I've always concluded that she is still a creation from a team of mostly men, and there is definitely a lot of fetishism in that game but I don't really mind that seeing that sex is inherently fetishistic.

Like is atomic blonde being directed and written by male creators mean that she can't be a strong sex positive character?

Also let me be clear I don't think bayonetta is the strongest representation of sex positive characters in all media.

 

[- J - D -]

Improv seems awful.

The beastcast has its ups and downs.

 

[trs1080]

Improv seems awful.

I've been to a few shows at like IO in Chicago (I live here) and have had good luck, but it's kind of the gold standard for it having had Chris Farley, Stephen Colbert and Tina Fey among others counted as alumni.

 

[- J - D -]

We recently had a 50 page thread asking whether or not the game implies Bayo was raped by one of the bosses in a throwaway gag during a boss fight. It's pretty cut and dry to me and any discussion about her being a strong female character is undermined by the clear intentions of its creators. They just can't help themselves.

in case you need a visual aid:

Spoiler

edited for maybe spoilers and perhaps nsfw.

 

[Jintor]

Thing is that there aren't.... that many? If any? Lol.

Like I think Zero is one, but everything else kinda just trends towards feitishism

I mean I agree with you somewhat, seeing that I've always concluded that she is still a creation from a team of mostly men, and there is definitely a lot of fetishism in that game but I don't really mind that seeing that sex is inherently fetishistic.

Like is atomic blonde being directed and written by male creators mean that she can't be a strong sex positive character?

Also let me be clear I don't think bayonetta is the strongest representation of sex positive characters in all media.

i'm not super into the 'she was designed by men for a viewer and therefore all her stuff is problematic' argument because if you boil it down all fictional characters are designed in some way to appeal to an audience in various ways, being products of a designer who, well, designed them in certain ways. fiction is by its nature artificial - better to have an issue with what that design actually is than to say merely because they were designed that an issue arises.

but i get it at face value and certainly i am the type of player in bayo who pretty much only sees numbers and mechanics at this point and ignores all the cutscenes.

We recently had a 50 page thread asking whether or not the game implies Bayo was raped by one of the bosses in a throwaway gag during a boss fight. It's pretty cut and dry to me and any discussion about her being a strong female character is undermined by the clear intentions of its creators. They just can't help themselves.

Oh, in case you need a visual aid:

christ okay nevermind

platinum why you gotta do me like that

 

[Parham]

Guess I need to post this again since there are some people who seem to have already forgotten after 2 page. Wow, how the mind slips!

"Allegedly"

Opening admitting to sexually assaulting someone(then banning anyone who called him out for it)

Posting revenge porn with their real full names then another admin(a now jailed pedophile) printed the photos and jacked off over them and sent it to the boyfriend.

You're right, how can we even know if he's guilty or not? HMMMM

Also:

 

[dannyglover]

Dan Ryckert! Took out the XenXero, the best player in the match

 

[Antiwhippy]

We recently had a 50 page thread asking whether or not the game implies Bayo was raped by one of the bosses in a throwaway gag during a boss fight. It's pretty cut and dry to me and any discussion about her being a strong female character is undermined by the clear intentions of its creators. They just can't help themselves.

in case you need a visual aid:

Spoiler

edited for maybe spoilers and perhaps nsfw.

Huh, is that a bayo 2 scene?

Oh wait it's in one also lol. Guess i never saw it in my playthrough.

I take back my statements then.

 

[- J - D -]

Huh, is that a bayo 2 scene?

Oh wait it's in one also lol. Guess i never saw it in my playthrough.

I take back my statements then.

IIRC it's a secret boss fight in two, but it's also in one? I dunno for sure.

Here's the thread.

 

[Joeku]

Huh, is that a bayo 2 scene?

Yeah, secret boss. Not sure how to get it. I played through the game like 4 times and never saw it. It's

Spoiler

Rodin turned demon-form

I think.

And yes, it is very stupid the way they did that.

 

[BTA]

what are peoples opinion on nier lady? skirt and thong?

2B in Automata or are we talking the original?

Kaine in the original is interesting to me because, as of ending B, they joke about her clothes a ton but haven't really established a significant reason why she dresses like that.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Ah, guess that explains why I never saw it. Not really the type to go for every secret thing in games.

But yeah that's not a good look platinum.

 

[Death Metalist]

OH yes, that thread. Good times. I never really viewed it in such a way but at that point who knows what was the real intention upon reflection. It looks bad but to me having context of both characters just makes it really hard to believe that Rodin would do such a thing to Bayonetta. That's why I believe that Kamiya didn't intend it to come off as such. I guess this is what happens when you base your character on hair like clothes powers.

On the other hand, the entire game is fucking nuts so I can't really take it completely serious? I don't know. At some point, you just end up going in circles when talking about the Bayonetta games.

 

[Jintor]

if you ask kamiya he'll disavow bayo 2 and refer all comments to hashimoto probs.

he's very consistent about that

2B in Automata or are we talking the original?

Kaine in the original is interesting to me because, as of ending B, they joke about her clothes a ton but haven't really established a significant reason why she dresses like that.

the reason i think from memory is game external and might not even be in english. but i probably wouldn't look it up until you're totally done

 

[Dangansona]

I should have said improv warmups sound awful, you're right.

OH yes, that thread. Good times. I never really viewed it in such a way but at that point who knows what was the real intention. It looks bad but to me having context of both characters just makes it really hard to believe that Rodin would do such a thing to Bayonetta. That's why I believe that Kamiya didn't intend it to come off as such. I guess this is what happens when you base your character on hair like clothes powers.

On the other hand, the entire game is fucking nuts so I can't really take it completely serious? I don't know. At some point, you just end up going in circles when talking about the Bayonetta games.

Yeah that doesn't fit the character at all, but I also don't know the set up for why they are fighting. Regardless that looks real bad...

But yeah I agree about talking in circles.

 

[broncobuster]

Bayonetta is the Barbarella of gaming.

 

[Jintor]

the setup is you buy an item from the shop and rodin says let's you and me fight

i never unlocked it in two tbh

he is fucking difficult as shit in 1. I think I only ever beat it once

 

[Death Metalist]

Yeah that doesn't fit the character at all, but I also don't know the set up for why they are fighting. Regardless that looks real bad...

But yeah I agree about talking in circles.

There is no setup, it's a secret boss battle that needs grinding and shit.

 

[- J - D -]

Anyway I'm so excited for tomorrow's GB Crossover Giant Rom extravaganza. It totally makes up for Film & 40s not being out this week.

But I wonder what the format will be like. Just a big UPF? Don't get me wrong, I'm totally okay with.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Thing is i'm mostly on one side when it comes to that debate, but seeing that scene kinda pushes me to the other side.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

Thing is in mostly on one side when it comes to that debate, but seeing that scene kinda pushes me to the other side.

I think you kind of have to ignore the context of basically everything in the game to read it as a Rodin raping Bayonetta, but, yes, dude smoking over a naked woman is very charged imagery that probably should have been tweaked significantly.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I wonder what the big premium surprise is on monday

 

[BTA]

if you ask kamiya he'll disavow bayo 2 and refer all comments to hashimoto probs.

he's very consistent about that



the reason i think from memory is game external and might not even be in english. but i probably wouldn't look it up until you're totally done

I'm gonna read a translation of Grimoire Nier once I'm done, yeah.

Anyway I'm so excited for tomorrow's GB Crossover Giant Rom extravaganza. It totally makes up for Film & 40s not being out this week.

But I wonder what the format will be like. Just a big UPF? Don't get me wrong, I'm totally okay with.

I don't have a ton of free time tomorrow (rather, tomorrow's totally free but I already have specific things I want to get done during it) but I'm really looking forward to it after seeing that everyone's there having fun with those games together.

 

[Death Metalist]

Anyway I'm so excited for tomorrow's GB Crossover Giant Rom extravaganza.

Only a few hours left.

 

[BTA]

For those of you who didn't see the original Last Call.

It's still one of the best QLs of this year.

I need to sleep now, but I finished this and thank you for passing this along. That was ridiculous.

 

[- J - D -]

Only a few hours left.

It's out at 3AM here on the west coast (!). I can't stay up for it, sadly. It's no longer college days I'm old now.

 

[Tubobutts]

I wonder what the big premium surprise is on monday

Giant Bomb is shutting down.

Premium members get to loot their offices.

 

[Joeku]

Thing is i'm mostly on one side when it comes to that debate, but seeing that scene kinda pushes me to the other side.

Most of both games is very much the opposite of that, which makes it weird. Bayonetta gets more sexed up the better she's performing; always the aggressor in her S&M finishers, losing clothes, etc. So for her to be on lying naked after taking a heavy hit just seems fucking tone-deaf (and yeah, charged) in her own game. It's not like she ever otherwise gets hit or dies sexily.