Giant Bombcast - 01/27/15

Glorious OP. We're being spoiled by this run of incredible custom stuff.

Usually I'm dismissive to a sub-3 hr Bombcast, but this got me right through my workout & cooking dinner - ending immediately afterwards. Beautiful timing.

The PAX talk has me skeptical if we'll see PAX South in January again next year. There's clearly a demand for it - so they're gonna keep going. But with MAGfest getting bigger & bigger - they'd be wise to move out of the way. As well as getting away from PAX East. But man, the calendar is getting real stuffed with dates for these things.
 

fleck0

Member
I'm loving all the crustacean talk. I go crabbing all the time, which is easier because crabs can't scream.
 
Typewriter ribbons and save point-only systems and other such methodologies are restrictions, and often games are built around them. When they're taken away, you just get a few facets to be lowered or raised, and often the game doesn't quite "work" right from that, especially in tension and pacing.

And quite honestly, "those people" have had enough games bent in their direction as is. It's their problem. (and thus ends my 291st rant on the wisdom of "From restriction: strength")

Alright, Jason has assumed his new role as Doctor Dog the Dog Doctor.

Will never not make me laugh.


"Sanesake" (I think this is what Dr. Dog the Dog Doctor says)
 

RE_Player

Member
Brad complaining about the time limit in Majora's Mask not knowing you can slow it down and manipulate it is hilarious. And the notion that he thinks you need a FAQ to learn this stuff and beat it. It's just a regular Zelda game with some quirks.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Brad complaining about the time limit in Majora's Mask not knowing you can slow it down and manipulate it is hilarious. And the notion that he thinks you need a FAQ to learn this stuff and beat it. It's just a regular Zelda game with some quirks.

Yeah... that's the kind of stuff that I mean. Dan didn't make it clear that the revelation for the Inversed Song of Time really isn't some hidden thing since, from what I remember playing the game years and years ago, it's actually very easy to come across if one bothers exploring just a little bit.

A FAQ for obtaining every single mask and getting Fierce Deity? Sure (and maybe not even anymore, after they've renovated the Bombers' Notebook). But to just play through the game? Absolutely not. The game gives enough leeway for players to explore as much as they want to.
 

Balb

Member
Yeah... that's the kind of stuff that I mean. Dan didn't make it clear that the revelation for the Inversed Song of Time really isn't some hidden thing since, from what I remember playing the game years and years ago, it's actually very easy to come across if one bothers exploring just a little bit.

A FAQ for obtaining every single mask and getting Fierce Deity? Sure (and maybe not even anymore, after they've renovated the Bombers' Notebook). But to just play through the game? Absolutely not. The game gives enough leeway for players to explore as much as they want to.

Brad isn't the only one who missed those 2 songs. They're pretty essential to the game and I don't think learning them should be so missable.
 
No Jeff?

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This podcast shows what I'd been worried about for a while. Jeff is the glue holding the west crew together and without him the show is terrible. I really hope Jeff hangs around for a long time because I guess the day he leaves is the day I leave.
 

Yeul

Member
Okay I just wanted to pop in and say that the OP is a work of art and made me extremely happy looking at it lol. Thank you for this~
 
Yeah... that's the kind of stuff that I mean. Dan didn't make it clear that the revelation for the Inversed Song of Time really isn't some hidden thing since, from what I remember playing the game years and years ago, it's actually very easy to come across if one bothers exploring just a little bit.

A FAQ for obtaining every single mask and getting Fierce Deity? Sure (and maybe not even anymore, after they've renovated the Bombers' Notebook). But to just play through the game? Absolutely not. The game gives enough leeway for players to explore as much as they want to.

Yeah, the scarecrow tells you about it right before you look through the telescope IIRC.

it's not rocket science. I have no idea why people act like it's extremely obscure when it isn't just explicitly stated -_-
 

OMG Aero

Member
is doctor dog the dog doctor just a doctor who is a dog, or is he a doctor who is a dog that is only a doctor for dogs?
 
D

Deleted member 59090

Unconfirmed Member
It's January so there has to be at least one episode without Jeff.
 
I should be surprised that Dan called the Godfather 'too cliché', but I'm not. It reminds me of people who complained that the Who ruined that one Limp Bizkit song.
 

ArjanN

Member
Eh, everything he says is qualified and couched as his personal preference. He actually goes out of his way to do this more than he really needs to.

Yeah, I didn't really have much of a problem with what Dan said, about the ink ribbon thing: the typewriters pretty much all have the universal box next to them, so you really don't have to carry them around taking up an inventory slot, but someone who hasn't played much might not realize that at first.

Brad was definitely wrong though in that changing the inventory would definitely change the core design of REmake a lot. Most of the strategy comes from what you choose to bring along, in that having more ammo/weapons/healing items on you means you have make extra runs, putting you in more danger, etc.
 

demidar

Member
Eh, everything he says is qualified and couched as his personal preference. He actually goes out of his way to do this more than he really needs to.

I know, but RE1 has great design through and through, even the things he describes as tedious (the limited inventory space, limited saves, item box juggling). It is just Dan's opinion so whatever, but I might as well outline why I think those design choices elevate the game as a classic.

The point of limited inventory slots is to deprive you of available resources, de-powering you which makes enemies more threatening. This already forces the player to make tough choices: They could carry a weapon + ammunition to deal with enemies in tight hallways that are difficult to run past, plus a lighter and kerosene to burn away bodies (this assumes Jill is being used, which also means she has 8 inventory slots). Jill is also carrying 1 key item to open a finish a puzzle and a key to gain access to new areas. Additionally since Jill has less health than Chris they could either risk dying by not carrying a healing item to save on space for items found during exploration, or carry one to inure themselves from death or unexpected damage. This leaves 1/2 item slots left for whatever Jill comes across, or risk carrying no additional ammo or even a gun to save on return trips to collect more resources.

If Jill runs up against something she can't get past because of low resources or her inventory is full, then she'll have to backtrack to an item box wasting precious time. Time is precious because the longer zombie corpses remain the higher chance they'll reraise as Crimson Heads, further putting the drain on Jill's resources and time to take care of them, or risk trying to get past without using ammo.

Crimson Heads are a game mechanic designed to punish backtracking and safe play. The more time you spend running to and fro trying to play it safe, the higher the chance of encountering a Crimson Head. This serves to enforce the importance of inventory management, taking what items you need, what items you might need and leaving a few slots open for gathering new items or to complete multiple puzzles at once. There's not enough kerosene to burn every body, unless you're a super cool guy and can burn multiple zombies at once.

The purpose of limited saves is to minimize the effectiveness of savescumming (as in to put a cost on the player retrying routes to achieve the best outcomes). It's doubly effective because running low on Ink Ribbons means the player has to play for longer sessions between saves, increasing the chance of sub-par route performance and chance of death, and infusing tension in the current run as their safety net is far away.

Carrying Ink Ribbons isn't really a problem (as ArjanN has said) because there's an item box next to most typewriters, but it's more important in Real Survivor mode where item boxes don't have linked inventories.

That's not even a majority of the design choices but I'll cut it to just that. Basically every action has a cost to the player, even time because Crimson Heads, actions you take now ripple out into the future to a meaningful degree because they are all intertwined. And all these outcomes are directly modified by player skill and knowledge (zombie strategies, route plotting. degree of item conservation, where to use Old Keys, what area to explore, puzzle solving ability)
 

You loving those things doesn't mean everyone will, though. Look at something like Dark Souls, a lot of people love the stuff like dropping souls on death, obtuse leveling/game mechanics, etc. Dark Souls is Dark Souls because of those mechanics, but for me I find those mechanics more annoying than enjoyable. You find that those aspects of Resident Evil 1 create a very specific type of gameplay and those mechanics work within the context of that gameplay, but that can easily fall apart if someone doesn't like what it leads to. It just comes down to a mater of preference. You seem to have a stance that Dan just doesn't understand the game mechanics and so he won't appreciate them, but I think even if Dan understood what you're saying that it wouldn't make those mechanics any more enjoyable for him. I came to understand Dark Soul's leveling system and I still don't like it, as a parallel.
 

Manbig

Member
You loving those things doesn't mean everyone will, though. Look at something like Dark Souls, a lot of people love the stuff like dropping souls on death, obtuse leveling/game mechanics, etc. Dark Souls is Dark Souls because of those mechanics, but for me I find those mechanics more annoying than enjoyable. You find that those aspects of Resident Evil 1 create a very specific type of gameplay and those mechanics work within the context of that gameplay, but that can easily fall apart if someone doesn't like what it leads to. It just comes down to a mater of preference. You seem to have a stance that Dan just doesn't understand the game mechanics and so he won't appreciate them, but I think even if Dan understood what you're saying that it wouldn't make those mechanics any more enjoyable for him. I came to understand Dark Soul's leveling system and I still don't like it, as a parallel.

It's really not about how Dan should be loving those things. It's really more akin to Brad's quip about it all just being "busy work." On top of that, they mention how Nintendo went back and were willing to change stuff up in classic Zelda games, but they completely miss the part that this is exactly what the inclusion of Crimson Heads did. It enhances the effectiveness of the inventory management and risk of backtracking, which further adds to the tension.

I swear, "streamlining" has become one of my most hated terms in regards to how it is used in video games.
 

demidar

Member
You loving those things doesn't mean everyone will, though. Look at something like Dark Souls, a lot of people love the stuff like dropping souls on death, obtuse leveling/game mechanics, etc. Dark Souls is Dark Souls because of those mechanics, but for me I find those mechanics more annoying than enjoyable. You find that those aspects of Resident Evil 1 create a very specific type of gameplay and those mechanics work within the context of that gameplay, but that can easily fall apart if someone doesn't like what it leads to. It just comes down to a mater of preference. You seem to have a stance that Dan just doesn't understand the game mechanics and so he won't appreciate them, but I think even if Dan understood what you're saying that it wouldn't make those mechanics any more enjoyable for him. I came to understand Dark Soul's leveling system and I still don't like it, as a parallel.

Instead of saying "Dan's opinion" I should've said "Dan's preference", so my bad :S

You are right, one cannot argue against preference. I was just explaining why the game has those things in it, not that people should love it blindly. I wrote all that just to get my own thoughts straight, and for anyone else interested. Like, I totally get why people love Monster Hunter, but I gave it a shot myself and while I appreciate and acknowledge what it's going for, I've been fairly lukewarm on it.
 
On top of that, they mention how Nintendo went back and were willing to change stuff up in classic Zelda games, but they completely miss the part that this is exactly what the inclusion of Crimson Heads did. It enhances the effectiveness of the inventory management and risk of backtracking, which further adds to the tension.

I swear, "streamlining" has become one of my most hated terms in regards to how it is used in video games.

Crimson Heads were already in the GC version, they were talking about changes for the HD remaster.
 

Manbig

Member
Crimson Heads were already in the GC version, they were talking about changes for the HD remaster.

Doesn't really change my point.

The HD remaster is just the Gamecube version with some extra costumes and analog controls. The improvements were already made in the initial remake.
 

Celegus

Member
Dan's knowledge of black holes is... worrying. Not that it's even possible for humans to get anywhere near one in their lifetime, but I wouldn't want to lose one of our American Heroes to such a fate.
 

LiK

Member
This ep was fantastic. The conversations flowed really well. Everyone seemed super pumped and awake even tho most just came back from PAX. Pretty impressed this week.
 

Bacon

Member
Dan was a lot more talkative without this week then usual. I'm assuming that's because Jeff wasn't there for the usual Brad and Jeff chat plus two other guys occasionally chiming in.

I enjoyed it!
 
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