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[Gestahl]

So I've never played Psychonauts before, and I got it during the Steam Winter Sale. Part of me thought, "You know what? I should get into this whole streaming thing and do a Let's Play of me playing Psychonauts for the first time. That could be a lot of fun."

But after seeing the ridiculous reactions of people in this thread, I've decided that I don't want to have a new hole torn in me by self-righteous, indignant gamers who are getting off on the feeling that comes with trashing someone who's bad at something they're good at. Thanks guys!

No seriously, thanks. It was a dumb idea anyway that would have just ended up wasting time I don't have. Now I can enjoy the game in blissful ignorance.

If you can't handle the slightest bit of criticism then yes don't do that. Or do it and post it on somethingawful, it'll be a hit, guaranteed

Perfect perfect perfect perfectperfectperfectperfectpperfectperfectperfectperfectperfectperfectperfectperfectpperfectperfectperfectperfectperfectperfectpperfectpperfectpperfectperfectperfectperfectperfectpperfectpperfectppperfectpperfectpperfectpperfectpperfectpperfectpperfectpperfectpperfectpperfect

If I say it enough maybe the strawman will grow a brain

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I wouldn't get that with a "perfect run"

 

[Net_Wrecker]

So I've never played Psychonauts before, and I got it during the Steam Winter Sale. Part of me thought, "You know what? I should get into this whole streaming thing and do a Let's Play of me playing Psychonauts for the first time. That could be a lot of fun."

But after seeing the ridiculous reactions of people in this thread, I've decided that I don't want to have a new hole torn in me by self-righteous, indignant gamers who are getting off on the feeling that comes with trashing someone who's bad at something they're good at. Thanks guys!

No seriously, thanks. It was a dumb idea anyway that would have just ended up wasting time I don't have. Now I can enjoy the game in blissful ignorance.

Why you so sensitive? Same goes for Ryan with those tweets. I'd just laugh at myself for dumb mistakes and move on. Yes, people who've played the game already will watch your videos and criticize them. Welcome to the internet.

 

[Zomba13]

When Vinny makes a mistake: Haha oh man that's so funny Vinny you are the best
When Ryan makes a mistake: Oh my God this is the worst thing ever how can he be so bad at games.

Healing a boss for 40 hp doesn't compare to forgetting a flying time machine that would make everything so much easier for the guys and entertaining for us (less time with them moaning about fighting through places they've been, more time 'fuck yeah 2poch!' and quicker to story segments that could lead to jokes and banter).

 

[LuchaShaq]

I think video game reviewers should know how to play video games.

You don't need to talk over the game and try to make it entertaining to watch when reviewing a game.

 

[Dark Schala]

Uh.

What the hell just happened in this thread?

Everyone's so mad.

 

[thetrin]

Vinny suddenly realizes he selected the wrong thing by mistake and goes "oh whoops sorry I'm dumb" and the incident becomes notable for how rare it was.

Ryan makes a mistake because he has anterograde amnesia and then blames the game for it and it's the 12th time he's done it that day.

That really is the point. Hell, even if Ryan and Vinny made the same number of mistakes, Vinny is humble about it, and never blames the game, which makes him all the more lovable.

Hell, today's quick look for Warthog was full of failure, but it was so god damn hilarious because Drew, Dave and Vinny are hilarious, that I honestly do not care that they spent 40 minutes on the ground trying to figure out how to turn on the plane.

It all comes down to personality. Dave, Drew and Vinny (and hell, Jeff) all have the charisma to pull off failure as hilarity. Ryan and Brad, while I love what they do, seem almost criminally oblivious when doing things at times. And it confounds me, because they're smart, and in genres where they excel (eg. Brad and RTS) they're awesome.

 

[TheYanger]

Were you on camera, constantly talking when you were playing? How much of your brain was being dedicated to the thought of, "I must be entertaining to an audience"?

Contrary to popular belief, playing for an audience doesn't actually make you better at a game. Usually, it's the opposite. Almost nobody in any GiantBomb thread seems to understand this, and most casually brush it off.

I've done livestreaming, and even when I don't have to worry about talking to people as I play, the nagging thought in the back of my mind that I have an audience to please is just enough to throw a monkey wrench in to the whole thing. Think of it more like watching a movie with a friend, and throughout the entire film you're holding a conversation with that friend. You're going to miss things. It's inevitable. Anybody who says otherwise is a liar.

Plus, who gives a shit? If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to watch it.

Personally, I love it. Yeah, it's dumb when they make a mistake, but Ryan and Patrick have also been way more self-aware than either Persona 4 or Deadly Premonition; they've really buckled down and tried hard to appropriately pay attention to specific bits of text, etc.

But the most important part of the Endurance Run for me is that it makes me feel like I'm experiencing the game again for the first time through their eyes. I wouldn't get that with a "perfect run". The mistakes are part of that, because everybody makes them, even if nobody remembers that they did (who would want to REMEMBER mistakes?)

I livestream myself playing all the time, actually.
And this perfect run argument is tired, take it out back and kill it please. Nobody expects a perfect run. This is as close to a 'failed' run as you can possibly have in this game. I don't think there's a single mechanic they haven't made bad decisions with, and many that they've been completely oblivious to. There's delineation possible besides PERFECT RUN OMG and FIRST TIME PLAYER.

It's absurd for you to claim we all made these mistakes and just forgot them. You may have Alzheimers but I certainly do not. This game is not opaque in your goals or how to proceed.

The 'anti complaint' crowd is shitting this thread up far more than the people watching the ER and posting their thoughts about it (IE: the 'complainers')

 

[Goldmund]

Using bufu accidentally one time and suboptimal fusions from choosing not to re-roll personas for 10 minutes is exactly the same thing as a lack of basic reading comprehension and understanding yes

Also Ryan goes through the combat menus like a 90 old man

Ryan is a man who savors the idea of potentiality. Decisions damage power.

 

[Zomba13]

Uh.

What the hell just happened in this thread?

Everyone's so mad.

From now on I'll only be happy about this stuff.

Boy gee willicker howdy guys! It sure is great seeing Ryan moan about having to go through sewers/junk yards in the horrible ugly future because they both forgot about how their time ship can travel through time. The banter between Ryan and Patrick was so entertaining all the 'urgh's and 'fuuuuck's and their frustration with the game

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Healing a boss for 40 hp doesn't compare to forgetting a flying time machine that would make everything so much easier for the guys and entertaining for us (less time with them moaning about fighting through places they've been, more time 'fuck yeah 2poch!' and quicker to story segments that could lead to jokes and banter).

See this is why I ended up dropping this ER a while back and why certain kinds of dumb mistakes in ERs and QLs annoy me and presumably other people. A lot of people like to assume that it's because of some fictitious "indignation" over a game being "played wrong," when it's simply annoyance at a mistake leading to long stretches of wasted time or more interesting riff-worthy content or progression missed.

It's no different than getting annoyed or frustrated when a character in a movie or TV show makes an unreasonable action or decision and the next few scenes feel like pointless retreads as a result that could have been avoided otherwise.


I don't give a shit if their builds aren't "perfect" or whatever the hell, I get a little annoyed if the majority of the video is them treading water commentary-wise because they're wandering around doing fights for no real benefit. If they miss half of the sidequests or bonus content because it's hidden then yeah that might happen, big whoop, but if they misread something very obvious and as a result miss out on a great sidequest that would have lead to great commentary and a great video otherwise, then that's a little frustrating and I might grumble about it in a meaningless message board comment.


So please, stop this "perfect run" and "you're just mad that they're 'playing it wrong'" bullshit.

I mean, one of my favorite LP groups is the Tipping 40s, and half of their repertoire (outside of drinking) is that they never read and constantly do shit wrong.

 

[thetrin]

Ryan is a man who savors the idea of potentiality. Decisions damage power.

Why make the wrong choice, when you can merely revel in the omnipotence of POTENTIAL!!

 

[Beelzeboss]

On the bright side they ended up getting some skill points for Bagus which always seems to lag behind in my builds.

 

[Myomoto]

From now on I'll only be happy about this stuff.

Boy gee willicker howdy guys! It sure is great seeing Ryan moan about having to go through sewers/junk yards in the horrible ugly future because they both forgot about how their time ship can travel through time. The banter between Ryan and Patrick was so entertaining all the 'urgh's and 'fuuuuck's and their frustration with the game

See? That's the spirit.

 

[Dark Schala]

From now on I'll only be happy about this stuff.

Boy gee willicker howdy guys! It sure is great seeing Ryan moan about having to go through sewers/junk yards in the horrible ugly future because they both forgot about how their time ship can travel through time. The banter between Ryan and Patrick was so entertaining all the 'urgh's and 'fuuuuck's and their frustration with the game

Okay, I'm saving the episode for before I go to sleep, but...

I don't have enough Crono laugh gifs for this. Ah, I'll resort to using the rest of the party!

 

[Conceited]

Vinny suddenly realizes he selected the wrong thing by mistake and goes "oh whoops sorry I'm dumb" and the incident becomes notable for how rare it was.

Ryan makes a mistake because he has anterograde amnesia and then blames the game for it and it's the 12th time he's done it that day.

Could not agree with this post more, same reason why Brad annoys me in Quick Looks.

 

[Goldmund]

Why make the wrong choice, when you can merely revel in the omnipotence of POTENTIAL!!

It's what separates the king from his people, the writer from the daydreamer, the promiscuous from the faithful. It's a formal difference. The pleasure is the same.

 

[voodoopanda]

I'm enjoying the ER and everythin goin on around it. People enjoy complaining and it's fun. Ryan and Patrick complain about having to go through the future areas again, people complain about them forgetting 2poch, other people complain about the complainers, eventually it gets back to Ryan who also complains. It's a big circle of complaining, it's awesome. It's all in the name of entertainment.

 

[OMG Aero]

Healing a boss for 40 hp doesn't compare to forgetting a flying time machine that would make everything so much easier for the guys and entertaining for us (less time with them moaning about fighting through places they've been, more time 'fuck yeah 2poch!' and quicker to story segments that could lead to jokes and banter).

I dunno man, seeing Ryan and Patrick seethe with rage at having to fight all the mutants was pretty entertaining.

Uh.

What the hell just happened in this thread?

Everyone's so mad.

Get back to the end of time Barle no-one likes you.

 

[Dark Schala]

Get back to the end of time Barle no-one likes you.

...

 

[Zombie James]

It's absurd for you to claim we all made these mistakes and just forgot them. You may have Alzheimers but I certainly do not. This game is not opaque in your goals or how to proceed.

That's really where a lot (maybe all) of the frustration is coming from. Chrono Trigger does a very good job - probably the best out of any mid-90's Square RPG - of telling you exactly how to keep moving forward. When the game tells you things like, "ONLY WATER DAMAGES" and the first things you hear is, "What does that mean?" and "Try Lightning," it's frustrating and you just can't help commenting on how oblivious they seem to be about these very direct things.

 

[Negator]

If only there were some kind of item we could use...

:LOLOL

 

[Captain Fish]

I think there's some weird misconception that anyone who points out the mistakes they're making is seething with nerd rage. Except for rape reference dude, I don't think that's true. For me, at least, those posts are always made stifling a laugh.

Honestly, the parts where they mess up and the game punishes them for it are the best. Not only do you get the hilarity of seeing them mess up, but they are actually then forced to figure out how the game works. Win-win.

The only really bad part was early on when they seemed like they didn't care about the plot or world. Watching Ryan and Patrick piece together the story elements and get invested in the game is great, because it reminds me of how I felt when I first played it. The Dalton hate was particularly awesome in this regard.

There may be a huge break after this one, but until then: NOTHING STOPS THE ENDURANCE RUN. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Goldmund]

I'm enjoying the ER and everythin goin on around it. People enjoy complaining and it's fun. Ryan and Patrick complain about having to go through the future areas again, people complain about them forgetting 2poch, other people complain about the complainers, eventually it gets back to Ryan who also complains. It's a big circle of complaining, it's awesome. It's all in the name of entertainment.

People rarely realize this fundamental sociological truth: couples/groups/communities/societies will do and repeat anything that potentially signifies the perpetuation of their already established cohesion/order. We don't just drop a habit because it's "bad". It's not a moral issue, it's a historical one. It's a strange thing: since the unity wasn't compromised, then, we better not get rid of it entirely. That kind of thinking subconsciously glues people together; logical thinking and its notions like causality would be the death of all. We have to work with what we've got. We problematize the bad habit, of course, form a dialog around it, move it to more and more abstract linguistic spheres, on the one side, and build prisons, on the other side -- but not to combine and secure our efforts of finding out how to change our ways. We're secretly just multiplying the original act's signal strength. That's what counts, in the end.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I think there's some weird misconception that anyone who points out the mistakes they're making is seething with nerd rage. Except for rape reference dude, I don't think that's true. For me, at least, those posts are always made stifling a laugh.

This. Pointing something out that they missed isn't attacking them, or a sign that someone wants to stop watching. At this point, the people complaining about people complaining are getting more worked up than anyone which is entertaining in its own way.

Can't wait for the next ep so this whole cycle can start again.

 

[airmangataosenai]

I think the people complaining about the complainers are missing something here: Have you ever heard of anyone ever making this mistake before? Because I haven't and I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could do this.

 

[Oxx]

There's really a vocal majority moaning.

 

[MrDaravon]

That's really where a lot (maybe all) of the frustration is coming from. Chrono Trigger does a very good job - probably the best out of any mid-90's Square RPG - of telling you exactly how to keep moving forward. When the game tells you things like, "ONLY WATER DAMAGES" and the first things you hear is, "What does that mean?" and "Try Lightning," it's frustrating and you just can't help commenting on how oblivious they seem to be about these very direct things.

This. I can't watch this anymore, it's like watching my mom try to figure out a smartphone or something. I love both of the guys, but the sheer number of times something has been made extremely clear via on-screen text AND common sense on how to do it and they have done the exact opposite and/or wandered off is insane. I definitely see how that's amusing for some people and it is to a point for me, but it's just gotten beyond stupid now.

 

[I'm an expert]

These guys get PAID to play video games! A travesty, my friends! Apocalyptic, some might say.

 

[cr_blah_blah]

And calling someone a "man-baby cunt" is SUCH a step up in maturity, right?

BLOCKED

 

[Goldmund]

These guys get PAID to play video games! A travesty, my friends! Apocalyptic, some might say.

They're paid in kind. Ryan isn't overweight. That's his pension plan.

 

[Home]

They're paid in kind. Ryan isn't overweight. That's his pension plan.

:|

As someone who's never played the game through before it doesn't really bother me when they make mistakes. Sure it was pretty dumb when he missed the text for those scouts and forgetting what the time man told them to do way back when, etc.

 

[Goldmund]

:|

As someone who's never played the game through before it doesn't really bother me when they make mistakes. Sure it was pretty dumb when he missed the text for those scouts and forgetting what the time man told them to do way back when, etc.

All I'm saying is: it's not like they're making a lot of money on this.

 

[AColdDay]

Sometimes they make mistakes, it's not a big deal. Don't forget that they are trying to remember battle systems and plot details while juggling all the other games they are playing for work.

If Ryan and Patrick were teenagers and didn't have anything else to play (like the first time I, and many of you guys experienced it), then I would expect them to pay the same meticulous detail I did.

Is it sometimes frustrating to watch it, but I like having an Endurance Run. I like the fact that this endurance run is one of my all time favorite games. You guys getting who are seriously worked up about this stuff need to relax.

 

[Htown]

So I've never played Psychonauts before, and I got it during the Steam Winter Sale. Part of me thought, "You know what? I should get into this whole streaming thing and do a Let's Play of me playing Psychonauts for the first time. That could be a lot of fun."

But after seeing the ridiculous reactions of people in this thread, I've decided that I don't want to have a new hole torn in me by self-righteous, indignant gamers who are getting off on the feeling that comes with trashing someone who's bad at something they're good at. Thanks guys!

No seriously, thanks. It was a dumb idea anyway that would have just ended up wasting time I don't have. Now I can enjoy the game in blissful ignorance.

Well, here's the question that I think should decide whether or not you should live stream. If you can answer this question in the affirmative, you should feel free to stream whatever you want.:

Can you read and understand text?

 

[Htown]

Look. It's not a simple thing of them not playing as I would play. Every time I play, for example, I end up switching to Team 1000AD (Crono, Marle, Lucca) to have the best coverage of magic types and whatnot. I usually buy all the armor upgrades possible, instead of grabbing one or two and letting upgrades trickle down.

No one's talking about that crap. No one cares that they're not distributing tabs optimally, or that they're not doing every single side quest along the way. This is not about a perfect 100% run, exactly the way I would do it.

It's about basic reading comprehension and paying attention to what the game explicitly told you in the last ten minutes. If the screen says the enemy reflects all but one kind of magic, just read it. If the game spends twenty minutes and a boss battle showing your flying time ship, maybe it wants you to use the flying time ship it just gave you. This is basic, basic stuff.

 

[Duffyside]

Yeah, opinions are the worst.

Oh stop pretending like it's the fact that people have the opinion that the ER is bad, and not that they continue to watch it and express their (exaggerated) dislike for it in tasteless, childish ways. Grow up.

 

[TheYanger]

Oh stop pretending like it's the fact that people have the opinion that the ER is bad, and not that they continue to watch it and express their (exaggerated) dislike for it in tasteless, childish ways. Grow up.

To turn around what you and other complainers are saying, it's just as easy to not read this thread as it is for people not to watch the ER. Your definitions of tasteless, exaggerated, and childish are not universal - I know, it may be shocking to you.

 

[EricDiesel]

My argument is as follows: Who gives a shit? Do you people not have bigger issues in your life to get this worked up over guys you've never play a nearly 20 year old game poorly? No, really. I'd actually like to know.

 

[TheYanger]

My argument is as follows: Who gives a shit? Do you people not have bigger issues in your life to get this worked up over guys you've never play a nearly 20 year old game poorly? No, really. I'd actually like to know.

I don't think we're nearly as worked up as you guys are about this thread. Why does it matter to you so much that people think these guys are playing awfully? Why do you give a shit?

 

[Duffyside]

To turn around what you and other complainers are saying, it's just as easy to not read this thread as it is for people not to watch the ER. Your definitions of tasteless, exaggerated, and childish are not universal - I know, it may be shocking to you.

But those words are applicable. Or should I submit a word-permission-form to my local speech department?

And your analogy makes no sense. I never said I dislike this thread, dedicated to talking about the ER in general. I like this thread, why would I stop reading it?

Second of all, my local speech department got back to me on my first request and stated the "complainers," when referencing the Chrono Trigger ER specifically, must only be in reference to the people complaining about the ER itself, or the players of said ER. Also to be only used in this context are "whiners," "moaners," "babies" and "bitchers."

 

[Dany]

I don't think we're nearly as worked up as you guys are about this thread. Why does it matter to you so much that people think these guys are playing awfully? Why do you give a shit?

This is the fourth page about this.

My argument is as follows: Who gives a shit? Do you people not have bigger issues in your life to get this worked up over guys you've never play a nearly 20 year old game poorly? No, really. I'd actually like to know.

Video games are serious business.

But honestly...whatever. Too many people are getting incensed about this.

 

[TheYanger]

But those words are applicable. Or should I submit a word-permission-form to my local speech department?

And your analogy makes no sense. I never said I dislike this thread, dedicated to talking about the ER in general. I like this thread, why would I stop reading it?

Second of all, my local speech department got back to me on my first request and stated the "complainers," when referencing the Chrono Trigger ER specifically, must only be in reference to the people complaining about the ER itself, or the players of said ER. Also to be only used in this context are "whiners," "moaners," "babies" and "bitchers."

Damn, you're a paragon of maturity. Pot meet kettle.

This is the fourth page about this.



Video games are serious business.

But honestly...whatever. Too many people are getting incensed about this.

Yes, they are, so let us complain about the ER in the ER thread in peace, if you want to make a thread to complain about the ER thread then those of us only interested in the ER and our complaining about it will be happily out of it.

Circular logic all around, this argument could continue forever.

 

[suzu]

So this thread is about people complaining about the people complaining right?

Spoiler

Complaining about the complainers complaining about complainers.

Honestly both sides are allowed to talk about what they like or don't like. Just because somebody wants to voice something they find annoying doesn't mean they are "srs business" either.

 

[cr_blah_blah]

Horse meet rider?

Horse meat, rider?

Horse, meat rider?

 

[Kalnos]

the fast-forward ability is a wonderful thing

 

[Pinko Marx]

Ok final word. They suck at playing Chrono Trigger.
Some people are okay with that. Some not so much.

 

[Haunted]

The “no one wants to see a perfect run“ people show off as much reading comprehension as Patrick and Ryan in their derpiest moments, how appropriate.

Also, this criticism discussion would not have gone on for so long if the apologists weren't even more infuriating than the run itself.

 

[Nappuccino]

I think we all agree that they should have picked another survival horror game. So when they fail, its funny instead of tedious.

 

[Mechanized]

I think if they ever do another endurance run it should be something obscure that most people haven't played. Persona 4 and Deadly Premonition ERs were like that for me, and it's a huge part of why I enjoyed them so much. Watching them fumble through a classic game is infuriating. Also something I noticed about the different runners is that Vinny and Jeff would often fill time in monotonous points of the games by telling stories or jokes, or talking about other games and shit, and that way I didn't even notice they were running in circles or accomplishing absolutely nothing in an episode. With Ryan and Patrick they just talk about how awful it is to go through the same place again or say they weren't given any direction.

I don't think anyone should take criticism or annoyance as hatred toward Ryan or Patrick, I think they're both awesome. But if something bothers me I'm going to voice my thoughts on it. Ryan and Patrick kinda opened up the gates for criticism themselves by playing such a revered classic.