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Gizmodo gets its hands on the new iPhone prototype

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Majik said:
A Somalian in Somalia, not me in Somalia.

Or somebody in Harlem maybe?
Right, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that you're not a Somalian, but you're acting like what you perceive they would act like. You're a first-world guy acting like a dick and trying to justify it by saying third-world guys would do the same thing. It's not relative and situational. It's you being a dick all the time, everywhere.
 
alternade said:
Honestly I would keep it too. Its like finding $600. I wouldnt anyone to give my phone back if I lost it. I wouldnt steal a phone from a person off them, but if your irresponsible then thats your problem, not mine.

Whats the difference between finding this phone and finding money? Would consider that stealing as it was probably someone elses at one time?

Would you keep 100 bucks if you blatantly and clearly saw it fall out of someone's purse/wallet/pocket? Before your very eyes. There it goes, on the ground, the person slowly walking away from it.

If you answered yes, then you're with Majix and that's pathetic.

If you answered no and would return the money, then you see the difference. With a phone you can see who it belongs to. It doesn't take much 4th grade sleuthing to figure it out.

Beyond that phones have greater ramifications for most people than does a few bucks. Losing money sucks, but lots of people have private information on their phones, and I'd wager most people don't have a lot of their shit backed up in any way (although the iPhone kind changes that).
 
SnakeXs said:
Would you keep 100 bucks if you blatantly and clearly saw it fall out of someone's purse/wallet/pocket? Before your very eyes. There it goes, on the ground, the person slowly walking away from it.

If you answered yes, then you're with Majix and that's pathetic.

If you answered no and would return the money, then you see the difference. With a phone you can see who it belongs to. It doesn't take much 4th grade sleuthing to figure it out.

Beyond that phones have greater ramifications for most people than does a few bucks. Losing money sucks, but lots of people have private information on their phones, and I'd wager most people don't have a lot of their shit backed up in any way (although the iPhone kind changes that).


Good example. And completely true.

Liu Kang Baking a Pie said:
Right, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that you're not a Somalian, but you're acting like what you perceive they would act like. You're a first-world guy acting like a dick and trying to justify it by saying third-world guys would do the same thing. It's not relative and situational. It's you being a dick all the time, everywhere.

Yet another truthful post by Liu Kang.
 
Majik said:
I'm going to assume that by this you're saying that if you found $600 cash somewhere you'd simply hand it over to the police and not that you would keep it because you yourself would find it tricky to return to the person who lost it.

The idea that it would be tricky to return an iPhone prototype to - hmm... what's the company that makes those things again? Oh yeah, I remember - Apple is ridiculous.

If it is impossible to return the property to its rightful owner, I can understand that it would be fair to keep it. If you can return the property and simply don't bother out of laziness, then by all accounts you may as well be stealing.

It would have been painfully easy to return this prototype to Apple, sign a few NDAs and be a hero set for life when it comes to their products.
 
PhoncipleBone said:
He is still an asshole, but a more tolerable asshole. He didnt have the same narcissistic attitude Majik has.

How does it make me an asshole? If it was something that impaired his life and he lost it in good faith ie not drinking then you would have a point, but its not. Its a phone. A very wanted phone that he lost being irresponsible. Ive found wallets and credit cards and ive returned those because those are life impacting.

but ill tip my hat to the people who would honestly return it.
 
Assuming that a cellphone loss isn't impact is a pretty bold move - you have no idea of knowing that. You're a scumbag.
 
alternade said:
How does it make me an asshole? If it was something that impaired his life and he lost it in good faith ie not drinking then you would have a point, but its not. Its a phone. A very wanted phone that he lost being irresponsible. Ive found wallets and credit cards and ive returned those because those are life impacting.

The reprehensible aspect of stealing isn't necessarily that an object has been removed from someone's possession. That may define it from acts of using something without its owner granting permission, but more generally I would argue that what people dislike about stealing is that someone has claimed a right to own something when they do not have that right. Stealing is more than using something without permission (as this implies that permission might be given when asked); it is an act of someone saying that they themselves have the right to own something when, in fact, they don't.

I don't think that anyone here would claim that the man who lost the prototype isn't, in some part, responsible for what has happened. He made a very, very stupid mistake which he will probably regret for some time. Moreover, it is difficult to consider taking the lost prototype as stealing because it doesn't seem possible to remove an item from someone's possession when that item isn't in their possession in the first place. Nevertheless, I'd say that this act is still disagreeable because the person who has taken the prototype is claiming a right to own it which he simply doesn't have: it isn't his to have.
 
alternade said:
How does it make me an asshole? If it was something that impaired his life and he lost it in good faith ie not drinking then you would have a point, but its not. Its a phone. A very wanted phone that he lost being irresponsible. Ive found wallets and credit cards and ive returned those because those are life impacting.

but ill tip my hat to the people who would honestly return it.

It is someone else's property that you knowingly are keeping for personal gain instead of returning it to the rightful owners. Doing so makes you an asshole. It should not matter if it is life impairing or not. Perhaps I accidentally drop a lighter out of my pocket at a bar and you find it and decide to keep it instead of giving it to the bartender to keep in lost and found. Sure, it is a lighter and is easily replaceable by normal standards. But perhaps the lighter is something that belonged to my grandfather and it has special personal value to me since it is one of the last things I have left from him. Personal value is something that cannot be accounted for with lost objects, that is why all should be treated equally.

Lost objects should be returned to their rightful owners. It doesn't matter what their value is. Anyone keeping them for personal gain is an asshole with no debates.

If you found a car left on the side of the road with the keys in it, why not just take that too since the person forgot to take the keys out of it. I know Majik would.
 
gerg said:
The reprehensible aspect of stealing isn't necessarily that an object has been removed from someone's possession. That may define it from acts of simply taking something, using it, and returning it to the original owner without them noticing, but more generally I would argue that what people dislike about stealing is that someone has claimed a right to own something when they do not have that right. Stealing is more than using something without permission (as this implies that permission might be given when asked); it is an act of someone saying that they themselves have the right to own something when, in fact, they don't.

I don't think that anyone here would claim that the man who lost the prototype isn't, in some part, responsible for what has happened. He made a very, very stupid mistake which he will probably regret for some time. Moreover, it is difficult to consider taking the lost prototype as stealing because it doesn't seem possible to remove an item from someone's possession when that item isn't in their possession in the first place. Nevertheless, I'd say that this act is still disagreeable because the person who has taken the prototype is claiming a right to own it which he simply doesn't have: it isn't his to have.

And I will add another name to the list of people that seem to understand the situation.
 
alternade said:
How does it make me an asshole? If it was something that impaired his life and he lost it in good faith ie not drinking then you would have a point, but its not. Its a phone. A very wanted phone that he lost being irresponsible. Ive found wallets and credit cards and ive returned those because those are life impacting.

but ill tip my hat to the people who would honestly return it.
The iPhone prototype is life impacting to the career of the Apple engineer.
 
gerg said:
The idea that it would be tricky to return an iPhone prototype to - hmm... what's the company that makes those things again? Oh yeah, I remember - Apple is ridiculous.

If it is impossible to return the property to its rightful owner, I can understand that it would be fair to keep it. If you can return the property and simply don't bother out of laziness, then by all accounts you may as well be stealing.

It would have been painfully easy to return this prototype to Apple, sign a few NDAs and be a hero set for life when it comes to their products.

Yeah, just read my earlier posts in the thread...


SnakeXs said:
Would you keep 100 bucks if you blatantly and clearly saw it fall out of someone's purse/wallet/pocket? Before your very eyes. There it goes, on the ground, the person slowly walking away from it.

If you answered yes, then you're with Majix and that's pathetic.

If you answered no and would return the money, then you see the difference. With a phone you can see who it belongs to. It doesn't take much 4th grade sleuthing to figure it out.

What's with creating a completely new fucking context and applying my existing statements to it? I haven't said anything of the sort you fucking muppet.

Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Right, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that you're not a Somalian, but you're acting like what you perceive they would act like. You're a first-world guy acting like a dick and trying to justify it by saying third-world guys would do the same thing. It's not relative and situational. It's you being a dick all the time, everywhere.

I'm saying that it's relative to how moral values and ethical standards are perceived by everybody. Just because you would act one way doesn't mean everybody would, regardless of what law dictates we should. I don't perceive finding something and keeping it to be theft. Picking somebody's pocket would be theft. Finding a $600 phone of the floor would be seen by some, many, to be lucky.
 
PhoncipleBone said:
If you found a car left on the side of the road with the keys in it, why not just take that too since the person forgot to take the keys out of it. I know Majik would.

Somebody else who hasn't read the thread in it's entirety. Well done.
 
Majik said:
Yeah, just read my earlier posts in the thread...

When one of your posts is this:

Majik said:
I wouldn't attempt to return a phone I'd found. Somebody loses something and I find it - unless it's a passport or drivers license or something that would otherwise negatively affect somebody's life - it's mine. The law? Fuck it. You lose a consumable, it's your own fault and you'd do better to look after your stuff. I wouldn't expect somebody to return something I'd lost.

Not only do you generalise the situation without specifying certain exemptions or circumstances in which you'd change your action, thus encouraging comments along the lines of "Fuck you. What an asshole.", but it would be relatively easy to return a phone.

I'm saying that it's relative to how moral values and ethical standards are perceived by everybody. Just because you would act one way doesn't mean everybody would, regardless of what law dictates we should. I don't perceive finding something and keeping it to be theft. Picking somebody's pocket would be theft. Finding a $600 phone of the floor would be seen by some, many, to be lucky.

Saying what some people do do has little relevance in a discussion about what everybody should do.
 
Majik said:
Yeah, just read my earlier posts in the thread...

ok...

Majik said:
I wouldn't attempt to return a phone I'd found. Somebody loses something and I find it - unless it's a passport or drivers license or something that would otherwise negatively affect somebody's life - it's mine. The law? Fuck it. You lose a consumable, it's your own fault and you'd do better to look after your stuff. I wouldn't expect somebody to return something I'd lost.

This is a little different though because the phone was remotely killed, rendering it fairly useless. Obviously you know it's an iPhone, and even the most clueless muppet would easily figure out that it's different to other iPhones that are available. Little research would bring most people to the conclusion that it was a prototype. It has huge value, and could easily be sold... but I don't think I would. I would have documented it and returned it to Apple for a fee. Then I would have sent the photo's/video's to TUAW or Engadget or something.

So you act like you are doing the right thing by giving it back to the owners, but not until they compensate you? Still an asshole, and it still does damage to the original owners even if they get the phone back. It is essentially blackmail.
 
Majik said:
What's with creating a completely new fucking context and applying my existing statements to it? I haven't said anything of the sort you fucking muppet.

I've already clearly called you scum for your mentality. The question posited had nothing to do with you. It was for alternade. He asked what the difference between cash and a phone is. I posed an example of it, adding the fairly clear parameter than by choosing one action he would join you in scumbagland. Get it? Good.
 
I do find it funny that the original poster of "finders keepers" in this thread, Pimpwerx, is almost completely ignored because we are having too much of a ball with Majik here. Or perhaps Pimpwerx got the message.
 
PhoncipleBone said:
So you act like you are doing the right thing by giving it back to the owners, but not until they compensate you? Still an asshole, and it still does damage to the original owners even if they get the phone back. It is essentially blackmail.

Also this.

If you were to actually do that, Apple would just sue you for blackmail. Some moral high ground there.
 
gerg said:
Also this.

If you were to actually do that, Apple would just sue you for blackmail. Some moral high ground there.

Speaking of which, I am surprised Apple has not issued a cease and desist order to Gizmodo about their continuing coverage. Perhaps if they get the "lost revenue" lawsuit or whatever it is called through, they can do that. I do think in the end Giz is going to get severely fucked by Apple. The ultimate joke would be if the final version is NOT like the prototype. (Unlikely, but still would be hilarious).
 
gerg said:
When one of your posts is this:



Not only do you generalise the situation without specifying certain exemptions or circumstances in which you'd change your action, thus encouraging comments along the lines of "Fuck you. What an asshole.", but it would be relatively easy to return a phone.

I have a lock on my iPhone. Several unsuccessful attempts at the code and it wipes the phone. I also use MobileMe and have the ability to wipe it remotely. If lost, I'd probably use that functionality. I have insurance and so would have another handset with a day or two. The data on my phone is also backed up to iTunes. Relative to my situation, I don't see the big issue. I wouldn't be losing out.

gerg said:
Saying what some people do do has little relevance in a discussion about what everybody should do.

It isn't a discussion about what people "should" do though.
 
Majik said:
I have a lock on my iPhone. Several unsuccessful attempts at the code and it wipes the phone. I also use MobileMe and have the ability to wipe it remotely. If lost, I'd probably use that functionality. I have insurance and so would have another handset with a day or two. The data on my phone is also backed up to iTunes. Relative to my situation, I don't see the big issue. I wouldn't be losing out.

You can't assume that that's the same for everyone, though.

It isn't a discussion about what people "should" do though.

Any discussion about morality is about what people should do.
 
Wow, really guys? Do we need to have a debate about how it was obtained is right or wrong? It happened... How bout we actually talk about the new iPhone?
 
Wads said:
Wow, really guys? Do we need to have a debate about how it was obtained is right or wrong? It happened... How bout we actually talk about the new iPhone?
We already did that for pages and pages. It's boring now :lol

Extra camera, sharper edges, boner for Braun, yada, yada, yada.

Now it's all about the application of high school ethics courses in real life. Personally, I'm waiting for this thread to morph into a debate about various German beers before getting involved again.
 
LCfiner said:
We already did that for pages and pages. It's boring now :lol

Extra camera, sharper edges, boner for Braun, yada, yada, yada.

Now it's all about the application of high school ethics courses in real life. Personally, I'm waiting for this thread to morph into a debate about various German beers before getting involved again.

That is one avenue it has not taken yet. We had phone discussion. Then we had Gizmodo sucks/rocks discussion. Then we had "It was assholish to out the guy" discussion. Now it is basic ethics and conduct.

After the beer discussion it will become "how can I get a sweet case for any phone to make it look like a 3GS?"
 
PhoncipleBone said:
That is one avenue it has not taken yet. We had phone discussion. Then we had Gizmodo sucks/rocks discussion. Then we had "It was assholish to out the guy" discussion. Now it is basic ethics and conduct.

After the beer discussion it will become "how can I get a sweet case for any phone to make it look like a 3GS?"

Or... :lol
 
Majik said:

It doesn't make it look like this:
25W-dynatac.jpg
 
People need to be a bit more considerate and thoughtfull when it comes to stealing someone else's possessions. Sure your not grabbing it from someones hands and running off with it but you might as well of, its usually the after effects that cause the most issues anyway.

My iPhone got stolen at a gig. Now regrettably i hadn't password locked it but shit the feeling of not being able to get hold of my girlfriend or anyone was pretty awful as well as all the serious personal shit on it (yes i know lock it) Now before this I would probably think twice about picking up a left over phone but now? No chance, hand it to the police. Dont go to some student behind the bar, hes most likely just to put it in his pocket like the guys in this thread.
 
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20003308-37.html

rezuth said:
Shit is going down!

Good! I hate people who do the wrong thing. Nothing bad is going to happen to Gary Powell, since Gizmodo publicized this private matter between Apple and Gary.

I like how everyone commented on that article that it is a waste of tax dollar to go after Gizmodo and the middle man. I assumed they will be fined(harshly) or/and go to jail, which I assume the money from the fines would go to the police, or to the state.
 
I imagine that Apple's going to have much more planned for Gizmodo than simply extracting money from them: I imagine that for a long while the official Apple policy will be to exclude Gizmodo from any media events, and refuse to send them products to test and review, and so on. The revenge will be delicious.
 
gerg said:
I imagine that Apple's going to have much more planned for Gizmodo than simply extracting money from them: I imagine that for a long while the official Apple policy will be to exclude Gizmodo from any media events, and refuse to send them products to test and review, and so on. The revenge will be delicious.
Gizmodo said they knew that was a likely possibility when they published the story, so being blackballed by Apple won't be much of punishment for them.
 
Hellsing321 said:
Gizmodo said they knew that was a likely possibility when they published the story, so being blackballed by Apple won't be much of punishment for them.

I think it will be much worse than that though. Apple will do whatever it can to get at them I think, even if it makes them look like a bigger bad guy than they do now in certain circles.
 
I skimmed through the Majik's Crucifixion and some of you are taking this to extremes. If I found a phone (and I did, a couple of times), I would turn it on, look in the address book for something like that person's mom or dad, or maybe last few calls and tell them I found the phone. One time the guy came to me, the other time it was a poor family without a car so I drove to them to return the kid's phone.
Those phones weren't mine and it was extremely easy to bring them back to their owners.
Finding 600$ on the floor, though? I'm sorry, but that's mine. If you go around asking people "Hey who lost 600$ in bills near this bench" I'm betting you the vast majority would say it was them. There is no way to check unless the guy has an ATM receipt, which he probably threw away the moment he took the money from the machine. No way to check means it's mine.

I have to say, though, that looking at the ugly iPhone prototype (which some sources say is near final or at final design stages) makes me happy it was leaked. Maybe Apple will change the design to something that isn't an ugly brick.
 
flsh said:
I have to say, though, that looking at the ugly iPhone prototype (which some sources say is near final or at final design stages) makes me happy it was leaked. Maybe Apple will change the design to something that isn't an ugly brick.
avatarnp.jpg

Always looking on the bright side, eh?

I do think the design is a little too brickish for Apple too. I do dig the glass type back though. And I am a little surprised that the screen is actually smaller dimensions wise, but happy it is higher resolution. If it is all true that is.
 
Angry Grimace said:
Wow.

I wouldn't go spreading that story around, dude. That's some really bad karma.
Karma is bullshit. We all lose and find things. That's just the roll of the dice. Finders vs. keepers. Besides, I lost my 3G a year or so later. Ying and yang. I'm not exactly concerned by the moral crusaders on the internet that make up the vocal minority. Human nature is what it is, so my sentiment mirrors that of the majority. Most people will keep fancy electronics if they find it. Not at all shocking or surprising. PEACE.

EDIT: For those about to give me more "wow, you're a thief" responses, two things. First, go fuck yourselves, I'm old enough to have considered the moral implications just fine. Second, how many gadgets have you lost and had returned to you? Yeah...thought so. Human nature is predictable. I'm just don't feel like being a phoney and expressing faux outrage when I know 9/10 I'd do the same exact thing.
 
Majik said:
Shifty? No. Asshole? Sure.

I wouldn't steal, but if by chance I happened accross an MP3 player or phone in the street - yeah, the likelyhood is that I would keep it. I have insurance for my phone, so if I ever misplaced it, it would be replaced and I'd get on with my life. I wouldn't be cursing the lucky bastard that found it and didn't call me :lol

It's never happened though, so maybe I'd have a change of heart in the event that it did. Who knows. I just don't see the big deal.

You lose your phone, you call your operator and get it barred then claim on the insurance and get a replacement handset. Then out of the blue somebody contacts you and tells you they've found your phone and would like to return it to you. What are you going to do, return the replacement handset?
Clearly, most people that lose their electronics get them returned to them or the bar. Clearly this is a common trend and u and I simply represent a disgusting minority of "passive thieves." We don't pick pocket or rob houses, but damn us for finding something lying around and not handing it over to someone. Clearly the guy should have given it to the bartender...so that he could sell it for more than a measely $5,000. :lol PEACE.
 
Then the issue we would be discussing is that the bartender is an asshole. Either way, someone is an asshole. Now, if the phone were given to the bartender or returned to the owner, then there wouldn't be a problem with a bunch of us.
 
Pimpwerx said:
Clearly, most people that lose their electronics get them returned to them or the bar. Clearly this is a common trend and u and I simply represent a disgusting minority of "passive thieves." We don't pick pocket or rob houses, but damn us for finding something lying around and not handing it over to someone. Clearly the guy should have given it to the bartender...so that he could sell it for more than a measely $5,000. :lol PEACE.
Or he could have tried to contact the person who lost it, whose name and Facebook he saw once he turned on the phone.

But, those are "passive thieves" for ya.
 
gerg said:
I imagine that Apple's going to have much more planned for Gizmodo than simply extracting money from them: I imagine that for a long while the official Apple policy will be to exclude Gizmodo from any media events, and refuse to send them products to test and review, and so on. The revenge will be delicious.

I don't see this happening. They're a major blog and Apple would be stupid to piss them off - imagine if Gizmodo was your only source of news/reviews etc. and they completely blasted the new iPhone for being useless/flawed etc. - it would affect the buying patterns of plenty of uninformed readers.
 
Freestyler said:
I don't see this happening. They're a major blog and Apple would be stupid to piss them off - imagine if Gizmodo was your only source of news/reviews etc. and they completely blasted the new iPhone for being useless/flawed etc. - it would affect the buying patterns of plenty of uninformed readers.

I do think that anyone that reads Gizmodo knows of what has happened with Apple. And almost anyone that reads Gizmodo reads at least one other blog. I do not think Gizmodo has THAT much influence.
 
Freestyler said:
I don't see this happening. They're a major blog and Apple would be stupid to piss them off - imagine if Gizmodo was your only source of news/reviews etc. and they completely blasted the new iPhone for being useless/flawed etc. - it would affect the buying patterns of plenty of uninformed readers.
A review site is not supposed to review poorly or badly based on what a company does or does not do for them.
 
numble said:
A review site is not supposed to review poorly or badly based on what a company does or does not do for them.

It has not stopped other sites in the past. Also keep in mind this is a site that sabotaged stage demos at CES then uploaded the videos. Maturity is not their strong suit.
 
numble said:
A review site is not supposed to review poorly or badly based on what a company does or does not do for them.

I realise this, but you can't deny that Giz would be tempted to shit over the new iPhone if Apple deny them review units etc..

And as PhoncipleBone mentioned, Gizmodo are not exactly the most level headed/serious bunch of dudes. We're not talking about the New York Times fudging a review.
 
Freestyler said:
I realise this, but you can't deny that Giz would be tempted to shit over the new iPhone if Apple deny them review units etc..

And as PhoncipleBone mentioned, Gizmodo are not exactly the most level headed/serious bunch of dudes. We're not talking about the New York Times fudging a review.
This is stupid--what next, send us all your prototypes or we'll shit on the actual shipped unit?
 
TheWiicast said:
I thought this thread was supposed to be about a new iPhone.

Thread degenerated into a repetitive boring ethics debate about who here would be the most hypothetically righteous if they were ever given the opportunity.
 
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