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Gnomoria |OT| of playing Dwarf Fortress "Lite" in isometric 2D with mouse input

Ferrio

Banned
Huh? "He" did for SpaceChem? What does the dev of Gnomoria have to do with SpaceChem?

*goes off to google "Gnomoria SpaceChem" and sees his Geneforge and Gnomoria threads popping up at 2nd result. He grins.*

Edit: Thanks CzarTim for keeping an eye on this thread btw.

Oh i thought it was the same creator since I snagged both on the indie bundle thing. My bad.

Anyways, on my 5th restarted world (4th only lasted a couple minutes cause I couldn't find any damn stone), is working really well. Just got my first shipment of gnomes, and have had no casualties yet. I actually have a wall up, a lot of stations, and generally haven't had any problems with gnomes ignoring what needs to be done.

I think a lot of what helped was telling my gnomes to ignore dirt until the more pressing issues were dealt with. Also played with the professions some (not much). What I need now is an active military, a couple blacksmiths to pump out some armor/weapons quickly. Also need to start trying to set up my eventual economy.
 

CzarTim

Member
You can sell dirt to merchants. Usually better than waiting for the gnomes to move it all.

I have a weird bug in my game where the windmill isn't showing up as an option to build in the engineer shop even though I am 100% sure it was invented.
 
Loving this game so far. Figured out quite a bit but seem to be having problems with storage.
I've several workshops that are sitting at full capacity and stuff like wine and bolts of wool are stopping production. I've got a large warehouse area and several empty barrels and crates. The warehouse is set to have everything dumped into it but has a lot of empty spaces.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Loving this game so far. Figured out quite a bit but seem to be having problems with storage.
I've several workshops that are sitting at full capacity and stuff like wine and bolts of wool are stopping production. I've got a large warehouse area and several empty barrels and crates. The warehouse is set to have everything dumped into it but has a lot of empty spaces.

Can you upload the savegame? I'd take a look at the production/storage cycle to see if I can find anything.
 

drizzle

Axel Hertz
I'm at a crossroads: I've been playing the game for 4 in-game years. I now understand the mechanics and everything.

This is my first map, and it's on a Medium Sized map. All I have left to do is to fix my base (now that I understand the basics), rearrange the areas and replace everything with better materials.

I'm actually wondering if I should just do that (if I can figure out why my soldiers no longer will pick up their tools and go mine or cut woods, even though there are plenty tools available) or if I should re-start the game on a bigger map.

Decisions, decisions...
 

Ferrio

Banned
I'm at a crossroads: I've been playing the game for 4 in-game years. I now understand the mechanics and everything.

This is my first map, and it's on a Medium Sized map. All I have left to do is to fix my base (now that I understand the basics), rearrange the areas and replace everything with better materials.

I'm actually wondering if I should just do that (if I can figure out why my soldiers no longer will pick up their tools and go mine or cut woods, even though there are plenty tools available) or if I should re-start the game on a bigger map.

Decisions, decisions...

Soldiers ignore their duties if they're in formation I believe.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
I'm at a crossroads: I've been playing the game for 4 in-game years. I now understand the mechanics and everything.

This is my first map, and it's on a Medium Sized map. All I have left to do is to fix my base (now that I understand the basics), rearrange the areas and replace everything with better materials.

I'm actually wondering if I should just do that (if I can figure out why my soldiers no longer will pick up their tools and go mine or cut woods, even though there are plenty tools available) or if I should re-start the game on a bigger map.

Decisions, decisions...

I'd say either go for a bigger map or play a new game with a challenge. Something like only build stuff above earth or whatever.

Alternatively, if you crave more mechanics and more to learn, check out the Dwarf Fortress thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375179

Playing Gnomoria already taught you quite a few basics of how to lay out a DF fortress, but in terms of DF possibilities, you just dipped your toe into the water. Make sure to install the newb pack and off you go! Read the thread I linked for any information :)
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
I might have to jump into DF after this, but it has always intimidated me.

You have half of what makes it intimidating already out of the way. There is a bit of relearning, but you are definitely able to survive and set up a basic, working fortress just with the knowledge of what gnomoria taught you :)

I dont think the jump from Gnomoria to DF would be that hard, but I would definitely be interested in some reports of people who try that.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Well long as I can find some good graphical packs. No way I'm nethacking it.

No way, not playing DF with Ascii either. Mine usually looks like this (actually a bit better because the screen is super old):

DFG13.png


But as I said, grab the Newb pack (which includes 3 of the most popular tilesets to choose from) and read the OP I linked for a painless introduction to DF.
 

drizzle

Axel Hertz
You have half of what makes it intimidating already out of the way. There is a bit of relearning, but you are definitely able to survive and set up a basic, working fortress just with the knowledge of what gnomoria taught you :)

I dont think the jump from Gnomoria to DF would be that hard, but I would definitely be interested in some reports of people who try that.

The issue I have with TF is mostly the Keyboard-only controls, and the shortcut-oriented commands.

A right click contextual menu is so much better.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
The issue I have with TF is mostly the Keyboard-only controls, and the shortcut-oriented commands.

A right click contextual menu is so much better.

Yeah, I agree that its way more accessible. I just wanted to suggest it, because its really basically the next step if you want to get MORE options and more depth in this kind of game. Waiting for content updates in Gnomoria is perfectly valid too of course.

I suggest trying to build something nice or an aforementioned "challenge" playstyle.

Another example I build (apart from the sphere I already linked in this thread) would be this:


If you try to plan/build big projects, this should keep you busy for quite a while too.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Oh damn, the noob packs don't have contextual menus? Fuck.

Nope, sorry. Its only a huge menu with key shortcuts. You can look up anything ingame by looking through the game menu, though. However, once you poked around with the shortcuts long enough the most important ones are second nature.

I guess its the tradeoff for playing the most complex game ever.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Loving this game so far. Figured out quite a bit but seem to be having problems with storage.
I've several workshops that are sitting at full capacity and stuff like wine and bolts of wool are stopping production. I've got a large warehouse area and several empty barrels and crates. The warehouse is set to have everything dumped into it but has a lot of empty spaces.

XI8E6.png


There they are, hauling your beer :)

Your problem is that your gnomes have too much to haul. When loading up the game they are busy with hauling stone, which takes them ages. After that they will try to put fruits, cotton and milk into the stockpile before finally turning to your beer production.

Solution for that is simple, you need separate stockpiles for however big you want your storage to be and then change their priority settings.

Atm, they haul everything, not regarding what you might deem important. If you set up another stockpile to ONLY carry booze and set its priority setting to 4, every gnome will try to take care of hauling something to that stockpile first. If there is no booze left to transport, they'll get back to haul other items to the general stockpile. That way, they also wont do the first task they do endlessly, because booze production takes longer than the time the gnomes need to put it into a stockpile.

If their current priority is to haul stone.... eeeeh. That might take a while then, especially when you are digging atm. Gnomes are a bit stupid in that regard and need a priority order in different stockpiles for that :)
 

Ferrio

Banned
So think I'm going to abandon gnomoria and just see if I can topple Dwarf fortress. Downloaded the pack last night, started it up, and instantly became confused. Reading some startup guides now, and it's a lot similiar to tihs game... just getting over the interface issues will be the tough part.

So how does it differ from gnomoria? Other than just more options.
 
XI8E6.png


There they are, hauling your beer :)

Your problem is that your gnomes have too much to haul. When loading up the game they are busy with hauling stone, which takes them ages. After that they will try to put fruits, cotton and milk into the stockpile before finally turning to your beer production.

Solution for that is simple, you need separate stockpiles for however big you want your storage to be and then change their priority settings.

Atm, they haul everything, not regarding what you might deem important. If you set up another stockpile to ONLY carry booze and set its priority setting to 4, every gnome will try to take care of hauling something to that stockpile first. If there is no booze left to transport, they'll get back to haul other items to the general stockpile. That way, they also wont do the first task they do endlessly, because booze production takes longer than the time the gnomes need to put it into a stockpile.

If their current priority is to haul stone.... eeeeh. That might take a while then, especially when you are digging atm. Gnomes are a bit stupid in that regard and need a priority order in different stockpiles for that :)

Brilliant! Thanks for the advise. I'll get back to work, well, building :)
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
So think I'm going to abandon gnomoria and just see if I can topple Dwarf fortress. Downloaded the pack last night, started it up, and instantly became confused. Reading some startup guides now, and it's a lot similiar to tihs game... just getting over the interface issues will be the tough part.

So how does it differ from gnomoria? Other than just more options.

UI
Extra Roguelike mode without Fortress building (you can however, visit your fortresses build earlier)
More Features
More Options

Other than that , its VERY similar in the base structure you know from Gnomoria. Workshops work the same, designations work the same, stockpiles etcetc. You have more stuff to build/farm/defeat and some things arent integrated in Gnomoria, like proper fluid dynamics and pump systems (which can also be used for Lava)

Let us know how you get along with the change from Gnomoria to DF!
 

Ferrio

Banned
Isn't there some sorta story aspect too? I mean one of the things about gnomoria it seemed was once you got a stable base there wasn't much more to do.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Isn't there some sorta story aspect too? I mean one of the things about gnomoria it seemed was once you got a stable base there wasn't much more to do.

You can see the roguelike aspect as a "story" mode.

Other than that not really, but DF has way more to play around with. Mechanics/Traps/building a zoo of monsters to make your Dwarfs happy. It will take you AGES to try everything DF has to offer.

Oh and not to mention that you can choose different starting positions which radically affect how you play the game. Enemy count, temperature, amount of water/wood, having a HUGE river directly below you etcetc. It really feels adventurous to start a DF fortress with other than super peaceful settings.

Other smaller stuff is neat too. For example the merchants are elves, if you sell them anything made of wood, you'll have to take care of Elves declaring war on you too :p
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
I don't haul stone at all. Once you have your workstations set up, you hardly need it any more.



This is my current playthrough. Fall of year two.

You coated your whole fotress area in metal?

...wow
 

drizzle

Axel Hertz
You coated your whole fotress area in metal?

...wow

I'm doing that as well. Birth floors on exposed areas and metal floors under the metal walls. I just hate the copper orange, so I'm doing Tin/copper floors and Silver walls. I started with Steel, but I had all this silver laying around. Now is getting harder to get enough silver... :D

I'm also massively expanding my Dinner Area. Both the Dormitory and Hospital areas, on the bottom right, are already done. I hit a Low Birch availability on winter, which made ALL renovations grind to a halt - I had no Birch Planks to replace floors, I had no Logs (of any kind) to produce coal for more Metal Bars. Things are improving now. :D


Edit: I *might* start doing individual rooms on the top floor after everything is done on the first floor. But that's something I'll decide later.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Gnomoria got Steam Greenlit yesterday! :)
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Meh, no update today:

I'm adding some new enemies and still working everything out, so I'm pushing the update back to next Tuesday. I think it'll be worth the wait though
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Goblins

Goblins have discovered how to make bronze. Bronze armored goblins will start to show up between copper and iron
Goblins have enlisted the help of their ogre cousins to fight gnomes. Ogres don't wear armor but have thick hides that are resistant to blunt damage and vulnerable to slashing attacks.
Gnomes have developed a taste for goblin meat (it tastes exactly like revenge) and goblins and ogres can now be butchered.


Wild Animals

Honey badgers, monitor lizards and bears have been spotted
Wild animals will avoid gnomes typically but will attack if caught by surprise or cornered
Wild animals can be butchered for meat and hides. Bear hides are tougher than the other animals but weaker than ogre hide


Mants

Mants are a race of ant people that have started to raid gnome settlements
Mants will send a single scout to look for gnomes. If the scout returns to the colony, they will return with a larger attack force
Mants will attack in greater numbers if the gnomes have an abundance of food or drink


Beetles

Beetles can now be found underground in the dark
If left alone, beetles will make cocoons. A cocoon can mature into a beetle and the process will continue.
Typically beetles will stay near their nest but will attack if there are enough of them.


General

Doors now block enemy movement. Enemies will attack and can destroy doors if they want to get through.
Training doesn't use ammo
If a gnome has higher Fighting skill than Brawling and they aren't currently carrying anything, they won't pick up random items to fight with.
Yaks and alpacas will now kick enemies in defense


Fixed

Crash on load in a rare case
Golems spawning in light and goblins sneaking past gnomes
Squad members getting stuck trying to pick up ammo with a full ammo container, when better ammo exists

The enemy updates sound really great. Also: Doors can now block enemy movement! Hooray!
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Anyone already played with/against the new enemies?
 
Wow... the horror.. the Mants...

I watched my gf's entire kingdom destroyed in a few minutes to an army of Mants. There were at least 2 dozen of them, but it was difficult to be accurate because in one square you would find 7 and the neighboring square held only one. They knocked down over a dozen doors (no traps, no ranged defenses) and a dozen steel-armed and armored gnomes. It was a slaughter.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Wow... the horror.. the Mants...

I watched my gf's entire kingdom destroyed in a few minutes to an army of Mants. There were at least 2 dozen of them, but it was difficult to be accurate because in one square you would find 7 and the neighboring square held only one. They knocked down over a dozen doors (no traps, no ranged defenses) and a dozen steel-armed and armored gnomes. It was a slaughter.

How long did she play up to that point? Sounds a bit imbalanced if they just rolled over steel armed gnomes.
 
How long did she play up to that point? Sounds a bit imbalanced if they just rolled over steel armed gnomes.


She had made the kingdom prior to the newest update. She updated it last Tuesday when it came out, and then continued in her normal kingdom. Killed a couple animals and 2 headed ogres, and then this happened...

mantmantmant_zps31cee5e9.png


"A Mant has been spotted"

She thinks she was in year 4, at the end of Fall.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
She had made the kingdom prior to the newest update. She updated it last Tuesday when it came out, and then continued in her normal kingdom. Killed a couple animals and 2 headed ogres, and then this happened...

mantmantmant_zps31cee5e9.png


"A Mant has been spotted"

She thinks she was in year 4, at the end of Fall.

Holy crap. Thats the stuff of nightmares. I guess its already over/she doesnt have that save anymore, but I'd love to know if just blocking all entrances and waiting for them to starve before they entered her fortress would be an option there.
 
Actually, that is what she ended up doing. A recent save before the invasion begun had her kingdom in far enough away from D-Day to be walled off. The Mants still came and they had no way in, so they camped outside and killed anything that appeared - ogres, animals, whatevs. They died from thirst some time later, but she didn't get any merchants or gnomads in that time. Specifically, 0 gnomads arrived so at least she didn't lose any.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Actually, that is what she ended up doing. A recent save before the invasion begun had her kingdom in far enough away from D-Day to be walled off. The Mants still came and they had no way in, so they camped outside and killed anything that appeared - ogres, animals, whatevs. They died from thirst some time later, but she didn't get any merchants or gnomads in that time. Specifically, 0 gnomads arrived so at least she didn't lose any.

Yeah, alright. Sounds good. Glad she managed to dodge the bullet there.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
And again on the topic of the mantis invasion, she might be interested in knowing this:

yup, wooden doors are the arch nemesis of mants. Also use torches against mants, those just burn the heart and brain through the chitin. I do not know what skill gnomes use (sword, axe, hammer) for torches but they work wonders.

I've defeated two separate mant invasions ranging 10-16 individuals with shields and torches. This was after 3 years of living in a walled-in subterranean empire where i also accidentaly found out that mants can't bite through wooden doors.

I havn't tried hammers yet, as torches have proved to be very effective.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
The tuesday update:
In the spirit of Halloween, Gnomoria gets a couple new undead enemies.

Skeletons

They spawn underground and get stronger the deeper they spawn
They carry weapons and can have a helmet and breastplate


Zombies

They spawn underground and spawn in greater numbers at a greater depth
If a zombie bite contacts blood it can infect a gnome
A zombie infection won't kill a gnome but if a gnome ever dies, they will turn into a zombie


General

Goblins spawn in slightly greater numbers but weaker armor and weapons and lower skills
Goblins can spawn with two handed weapons or 2 one hand weapons in addition to a weapon and shield from before
Beetles only spawn at depth -10 and lower and won't spawn before Fall
Mants no longer show up during Year 1
Significantly increased trap damage
Reduced meat from wild animals


Fixed

Wood doors being invincible
Resistances for heat damage

More enemies! Less invincible doors..
 
She had made the kingdom prior to the newest update. She updated it last Tuesday when it came out, and then continued in her normal kingdom. Killed a couple animals and 2 headed ogres, and then this happened...

mantmantmant_zps31cee5e9.png


"A Mant has been spotted"

She thinks she was in year 4, at the end of Fall.

I am so jealous of this layout. I suck so hard at trying to organize things cause I'm just trying to expand rapidly.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
I am so jealous of this layout. I suck so hard at trying to organize things cause I'm just trying to expand rapidly.

Same problem for me. Mine never look great either, usually because I just make huge areas for everything.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Stuff he plans to implement in the near future. Sounds great!

With today's patch out, I think it's time to take a break from combat for a while. Tomorrow will be 3 months since the start of the current combat focus and a lot of missing things related to combat have been added - ranged combat, hospitals, squad perks, new enemies, etc. I will continue to fix combat issues as they come up or adjust balance when necessary but the overall focus will move to the general management aspects of Gnomoria.

Some things I am considering working on during this focus:

Crafting - A lot of crafting recipes are placeholder. When filling these out, I think crafting will get a bit of an overhaul.

Crafting recipes will have their quantities lowered but in general have more steps. Also, the amount of time it takes to craft once all the items are gathered will go up a little but there will be less items to haul. Combined with more crafting steps, the overall progression will end up slowing down a little bit.

With some of the burden moving from hauling to crafting, a higher crafting skill will help speed up crafting more than it currently does. Also, currently every item has a skill requirement to craft but that skill level is 1. Some items will start to have higher skill requirements to craft too.

Item quality doesn't seem to be generating correctly. I'm going to take a look at how quality is determined again and make sure that it's more consistent for a given crafter skill and recipe skill requirement.

Item values will also need to be adjusted during these crafting changes. Since Kingdom Worth is closely tied to enemy spawns, the formulas for those spawns will need to be adjusted along with the value changes.

Item Quality - With item quality working as intended, quality filters will need to be added. Merchants, stockpiles and uniform UI will get options to select or view items by quality. With these changes, item quality will increase the effectiveness of weapons and armor. Stockpiles will also get a filter for specific materials.

Merchants - Merchants will start to offer better items than they currently do based on your Kingdom Worth. Merchant trade rates will get adjusted as well.

Workshops - There has been a lot of good feedback for improving workshops that I'm excited to start implementing.

Workshops will get a "Craft To" option that will craft an item as long as the current amount is lower than the specified number. For example, crafting a plank and entering "Craft To 5" will queue a job to craft a plank when there are 4 or less planks but have no effect when there are 5 or more.

"Repeat" will be changed to simply not be removed from the list after crafting. Currently, it only skips the job in the queue if required materials are missing. For example, in the current setup if you have Sausage, Bread and Sandwich in your workshop queue and all on Repeat, it will craft sausages until there is no more meat and then start on bread. When new meat is available, crafting sausages will take priority over bread. With the changes, it will craft 1 sausage, 1 bread, 1 sandwich and repeat. If you run out of Wheat, it will craft 1 sausage , skip bread and then craft 1 sandwich if able. If both methods are desired, I'll add an option on the workshop for how it should handle Repeat tasks.

Workshops can be assigned a gnome and only that gnome will be allowed to work there. I'm also considering linking a stockpile to a workshop so that newly crafted items will stock there. I'm still considering if this is necessary and if those items can ONLY be stocked there and/or if other items are allowed to be stocked there.

Butcher shop needs some improvements. I'll add a filter for Pastures, so that specific animals can more easily be selected to butcher. When viewing livestock and corpses, there will be an item to queue it to be butchered at the closest butcher shop. There will also be options to have excess animals in a pasture and corpses to automatically be queued to butcher.

Tinker bench is missing it's UI entirely and needs to be added. Right now the tinkering progression is completely linear but if adding new items ends up adding tinkering options then I'll add the choice of what to tinker next here.

UI and usability - I'll do another pass on UI in general. There have been suggestions that I'd like to add like sorting gnomes in the population window and adding arrow buttons on menus, like gnome stats, to cycle through everyone as well as tracking more item quantities on the HUD. I'll look into giving better feedback for why jobs aren't being accepted and more control for prioritizing jobs.

Tree farms - These will be designations like farms but for trees. The orchard will work just like current farms but for fruit trees. So, apple trees will be planted and apples will be picked when available. The grove will automate planting saplings, cutting clippings and felling trees.

Other stuff - I'm going to adjust the formula for determining how many gnomads spawn so there isn't a soft cap around 45 gnomes. Claiming items for jobs will change so that items will remain claimed to a job when a gnome stops work on the job. I'll add a way to salvage items back into it's components, but I'm not sure if it'll be 100% refund or not. I'll be adding some more building options like fences, tombs, thrones, etc too.

Audio - Not exactly related, but I want to take the time at this stage to also add in sound effects as well as some changes to music and how music is played.


As always, I'll be fixing bugs along the way and listening to feedback. I'm sure changes will come up that aren't covered in this list.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Basically just fixes for todays update:

General

Adjusted enemy spawns so that lower tier enemies still spawn at slightly higher kingdom worth or lower depth while higher tier enemies remain the same
Underground enemies can not spawn in mined out cells for 2 days
Underground enemies no longer spawn on cells with a construction - block floors, stairs, workshops, etc
Added hot key to toggle highlighting areas that are dark enough for enemies to spawn in
Crates can now store claymores, battle axes, warhammers, torches, pistols, blunderbusses and crossbows


Music

No longer using XACT
Added 3 new songs
Replaced combat music
Shuffle music on repeat instead of long periods of silence
Loosened music choice conditions to only day/night so that rarely heard songs play more often


Fixed

Crash on load in some cases
Rare crash when animals try to leave and their path is blocked
Pathing issue when start and end positions are both under water
Gnomes getting stuck trying to pick up two handed items
Gnomes only filling a quiver or ammo pouch with 1 ammo



I'm slowly trying out these changes to enemy spawns and will continue to make adjusts based on feedback. In general, enemies at the copper and bronze levels will spawn in a wider range of Kingdom Worth or depth, while iron and steel level enemies will spawn as before. A higher minimum worth is required for beetles to spawn and at lower values of Kingdom Worth the number of mants will be lower while remaining the same at higher values. The toggle for displaying dark areas ignores depth and constructions, meaning some cells will still be highlighted red when turned on but won't actually spawn enemies.
 
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