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[wildfire]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/democrats-trump-strategy-234206

What began as a high-minded discussion about how to position the Democratic Party against President Donald Trump appears to be nearing its conclusion. The bulk of the party has settled on a scorched-earth, not-now-not-ever model of opposition.

In legislative proposals, campaign promises, donor pitches and even in some Senate hearings, Democrats have opted for a hard-line, give-no-quarter posture, a reflection of a seething party base that will have it no other way.

According to interviews with roughly two dozen party leaders and elected officeholders, the internal debate over whether to take the conciliatory path — to pursue a high-road approach as a contrast to Trump’s deeply polarizing and norm-violating style — is largely settled, cemented in place by a transition and first week in office that has confirmed the left’s worst fears about Trump’s temperament.

“They were entitled to a grace period, but it was midnight the night of the inauguration to 8 o'clock the next morning, when the administration sent out people to lie about numerous significant things. And the damage to the credibility of the presidency has already been profound,” said Washington Gov. Jay Inslee. “They were entitled to a grace period and they blew it.

That conclusion comes after two months of intraparty debates about how to outwardly treat the Trump White House, a process which played out not only in public but also in private meetings and conference calls between leading party operatives, elected officials and message crafters.

“I predict the coming divide in the Democratic Party won’t be ideological so much as it will be between those who resist and oppose and those who accommodate and appease,” strategist David Brock told roughly 120 donors gathered in Florida over the weekend to plot a path forward.

That mind-set has permeated every outpost of the party from governors' mansions to Congress. Whether it’s in statehouses or the offices of state attorneys general, the Democratic National Committee or the constellation of outside left-leaning political groups, Trump’s benefit of the doubt is gone.

At a forum this week for candidates running to be the next DNC chair, the very idea that the party should try to work with the new president was dismissed as absurd.

Some party leaders are wary of the implications of teeth-baring, no-holds-barred opposition. They worry about the difficult position in which it puts vulnerable Democratic senators — 10 of them will be up for reelection in 2018 in states that Trump carried.

There are also concerns about the dangers of appearing overly obstructionist, and the possible blowback it could create for party officeholders up and down the ballot in 2018. An explicitly aggressive approach also stands to shape the 2020 presidential field, incentivizing potential candidates to compete in expressing their level of anti-Trump vitriol.

Brock’s Florida conference outlined some of the philosophical fault lines. In one closed-door session, Chicago mayor and former Barack Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel advocated a measured approach to Trump opposition, one in which Democrats choose only specific fights with a tight game plan. Sitting opposite Emanuel, former Joe Biden chief of staff Ron Klain shared his rules for a “100 Day Fight Club” — a battle royal he advocated to mark Trump’s opening stretch, according to people in the room.

Other sessions detailed a massive pushback operation that featured expansive litigation plans and opposition research efforts.

Even so, strident anti-Trump Democrats worry that deal-makers like Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) will try to find agreements with the new president — concerns that have been heightened by the Cabinet confirmation process, in which Schumer has prioritized eight nominees rather than trying to gum up all the picks at once.

In their view, a true opposition party in the Senate should grind all Republican movement to a halt. But that creates a problem for the senators leading the charge, who insist choosing their battles is the most effective way to kneecap Trump’s agenda.

“Opposing every nominee was not seriously on the table; it never has been. That’s not a test of whether or not you’re resistant," said Hawaii Sen. Brian Schatz, noting that the party simply doesn’t have the votes to stop many of them.

Democratic lawmakers have still found ways to embarrass Trump, by pushing to get Trump’s nominees to disagree with the president and introducing legislation aimed at disempowering him or forcing him to disclose personal information like tax returns.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/democrats-trump-strategy-234206

 

[jellies_two]

I think everyone must be wondering how trump can move so fast with so much evil where is the pushback but the pushback, as it isn't dictatorial, takes a good deal longer to wind up but when it gets going it will also have a whole lot more momentum behind it.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Good, I'd love for them to finally stop negotiating with these idiots. The GOP had their chance since the 90s to work with us and they refused until they get their way. After the way the GOP acted with Obama, I'll be glad if the Dems follow the same strategy they did. No more olive branches, this is war.

 

[LegendofJoe]

This premiers tonight, please watch it. We will fight them on every front. And we have to win, the future of this world and our country depend on it.

https://youtu.be/7uKj9HR71sA

 

[ZealousD]

On the one hand, Trump certainly doesn't deserve any olive branches.

On the other hand, more partisan gridlock will create more political dysfuction and American politics will continue its downward slide, which will simply enable more Trump-like candidates to emerge in the future.

How the fuck do we get out of this death spiral?

 

[RMI]

thank god. these guys have nothing to gain from trying to beg for scraps at the GOP table. They will receive nothing for showing any good will.

How the fuck do we get out of this death spiral?

dig your heels into the ground and focus on making sure that you can convince enough people to go to the polls next time around to vote these lying, greedy, fascist boot-lickers out of office next time. Apathy allows for corrupt governments to take power, so people need to get engaged again and take back the house and senate.

 

[jtb]

Well, makes sense.

The senate will be fought on very unfavorable territory in 2018. Countless red states with blue senators about to get booted out of office (and the Dems already have a minority...).

Every other election, namely the 2018 house and governor's races, are not on that timetable. The Ds should be laying the groundwork to contest every single Republican suburban house district that voted for Clinton. They can start with Tom Price's seat in GA 6.

 

[Ferrio]

On the one hand, Trump certainly doesn't deserve any olive branches.

On the other hand, more partisan gridlock will create more political dysfuction and American politics will continue its downward slide, which will simply enable more Trump-like candidates to emerge in the future.

Pandora's box has already been opened.

 

[Dali]

You fucking pussies! It's ok to be obstructionist when you're representing the view of the people that elected you. The tea party which is now basically the Republican party has no qualms about this. You shouldn't either.

 

[sturgboski]

What I hope is that 2018 and 2020 we get the presidency and majority back and then basically give no inch to the right. Trying the reach across the aisle has fucked Dems more times than naught. I mean look at Comey.

 

[Maxim726X]

On the one hand, Trump certainly doesn't deserve any olive branches.

On the other hand, more partisan gridlock will create more political dysfuction and American politics will continue its downward slide, which will simply enable more Trump-like candidates to emerge in the future.

How the fuck do we get out of this death spiral?

Or-

We get a repeat of 2008. Donald and co. fuck up so badly that they lose every branch of government again. I've been waiting for this tactic for a while now... I'm glad the party is waking up. Populism is in, baby. Ride the wave.

 

[jellies_two]

This premiers tonight, please watch it. We will fight them on every front. And we have to win, the future of this world and our country depend on it.

https://youtu.be/7uKj9HR71sA

RiSE! (Not available in your country)
Nothing like a vital message getting geoblocked because it's about ad pennies.

 

[whytemyke]

Olberman was on Bill Maher last week and had a solid point: Democrats need to treat Trump the way that the Tea Party treated Obama.

Total opposition to everything, and if any Democrats tried to play nice and not oppose, run someone against them in the primary and take their jobs.

The time for half measures is over with this crap.

 

[Sunster]

This is the attitude we've been waiting for

 

[Ponn]

Dems and Liberals need to wake up. There is no working with the GOP, there is no bi-partisanship with them. They have done everything in their power to sabotage and not work with Obama for 8 years and they got rewarded for it.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

What if Trump proposes something like reparations for African Americans?

 

[Maztorre]

Only took them 20+ years to catch on to the idea that reaching across the aisle to people who have a vested interest in dysfunctional government is a bad idea.

 

[samn]

What if Trump proposes something like reparations for African Americans?

In that case it doesn't matter what you do, he'll be toast with his own base.

 

[radios shipping overview]

FINALLY. I hope the marchers last weekend helped them realize that they have support in going obstructionist.

 

[Ferrio]

What if Trump proposes something like reparations for African Americans?

Why even bring this up as if it's even remotely possible?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Remove every single appeaser. Do not give one single inch. Obstruct obstruct obstruct.

 

[Xe4]

I'm not a fan of becoming more like republicans. I vote for democrats because they have a conciense, and at least try to have a dialogue before voting. I'm surprised people are in support of being obstructionist for the sake of it. I thought we were better than this.

The absolute last thing I want is for democrats to become like the GOP with regards to voting. Fuck Trump, and block any shitty stuff he proposes, absolutely. But if the only way for democrats to win I to become extreme to the point of hyperbole, America is already doomed.

You fucking pussies! It's ok to be obstructionist when you're representing the view of the people that elected you. The tea party which is now basically the Republican party has no qualms about this. You shouldn't either.

You're using the tea party as a good example, really?

 

[wildfire]

Ignore Baklava guys. He's being random.

 

[Anoregon]

What if Trump proposes something like reparations for African Americans?

what if the sky turns into jello and my face becomes a T-rex?

 

[Ferrio]

I'm not a fan of becoming more like republicans. I vote for democrats because they have a conciense, and at least try to have a dialogue before voting. I'm surprised people are in support of being obstructionist for the sake of it. I thought we were better than this.

Moral high ground means nothing if everything is burning.

 

[Sunster]

What if Trump proposes something like reparations for African Americans?

And what if he declares an open border with Mexico?

 

[Ponn]

what if the sky turns into jello and my face becomes a T-rex?

Depends, is it lime jello?

 

[geomon]

It's not enough to just oppose this scum. You have to get out in front of the media, dominate the fucking headlines, make sure if they're talking about anything they're talking about how evil these fuckers are and what you're doing to oppose them.

 

[jfkgoblue]

You fucking pussies! It's ok to be obstructionist when you're representing the view of the people that elected you. The tea party which is now basically the Republican party has no qualms about this. You shouldn't either.

The tea party almost ruined the GOP. They just got really lucky with Trump wooing the WWC in the Rust Belt.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I'm not a fan of becoming more like republicans. I vote for democrats because they have a conciense, and at least try to have a dialogue before voting. I'm surprised people are in support of being obstructionist for the sake of it. I thought we were better than this.

The absolute last thing I want is for democrats to become like the GOP with regards to voting. Fuck Trump, and block any shitty stuff he proposes, absolutely. But if the only way for democrats to win I to become extreme to the point of hyperbole, America is already doomed.


You're using the tea party as a good example, really?

You wouldn't be saying this if your family was Muslim and your children afraid to go to school.

 

[Xe4]

Moral high ground means nothing if everything is burning.

It actually means a lot. It's important to remember not to become what we hate, even when we're under duress.

Block Trump's shitty measures. I don't think anyone is going to argue against that. But obstructing for the sake of it is counterproductive and will really fuck over America even more. Democrats not acting like 5 year olds is the only thing keeping this country together, and I'd hate to see that go away.

You wouldn't be saying this if your family was Muslim and your children afraid to go to school.

It's hard to say. But I know for certain there are other ways to fight prejudice other than bring the obstinate assholes we hated for the last 8 years.

 

[HvySky]

I'm not a fan of becoming more like republicans. I vote for democrats because they have a conciense, and at least try to have a dialogue before voting. I'm surprised people are in support of being obstructionist for the sake of it. I thought we were better than this.

The absolute last thing I want is for democrats to become like the GOP with regards to voting. Fuck Trump, and block any shitty stuff he proposes, absolutely. But if the only way for democrats to win I to become extreme to the point of hyperbole, America is already doomed.

At some point, you have to realize that reaching across the aisle doesn't work when the other side is burning the building to the ground.

 

[aeolist]

it's going to be pretty hypocritical when lots of these people have to come out in opposition to things they were fine with pre-trump, see cory booker and betsy devos

it didn't work for hillary clinton and TPP, i doubt it'll work much better for the rest of them under the august leadership of david fucking brock

the real solution is to get rid of the corporatist sellouts who have been running and ruining the democratic party for the last 30 years

 

[titiklabingapat]

Good. Never compromise, you will get rewarded. Just look at the Tea Party. The Democratic senators should be embarrassed but I also recognize that that chamber is more conciliatory by design and the field is not exactly friendly for 2018. Many of these senators are actual friends in real life despite policy differences.

But hopefully the pressure from the bottoms up start changing that.

 

[wildfire]

I'm not a fan of becoming more like republicans. I vote for democrats because they have a conciense, and at least try to have a dialogue before voting. I'm surprised people are in support of being obstructionist for the sake of it. I thought we were better than this.

The absolute last thing I want is for democrats to become like the GOP with regards to voting. Fuck Trump, and block any shitty stuff he proposes, absolutely. But if the only way for democrats to win I to become extreme to the point of hyperbole, America is already doomed.


You're using the tea party as a good example, really?

I agree with this in certain ways. I actually think at the government level we should be a persistent thorn but when it comes to being appealing to Republican voters I would prefer some lessons learned about why the people who were flipped compared to their voting patterns in 08 and 12 are taken into account and we do better in being appealing in swing states.


Fuck the GOP and try to win back those we lost in 16.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Good. All the high road/conciliatory approach was ever going to get us, was stepped on.

 

[ZealousD]

What if Trump proposes something like reparations for African Americans?

What if Trump gets a schlami to spit on my plumbus?

 

[necrosis]

i hope so

if history is any indication, don't compromise with fascists

 

[Sunster]

It's not enough to just oppose this scum. You have to get out in front of the media, dominate the fucking headlines, make sure if they're talking about anything they're talking about how evil these fuckers are and what you're doing to oppose them.

yea I get the feeling the only Trump headlines that have made it into the average republican voter's home are "Trump Saves Carrier Jobs" and "Trump to Sign Order on Wall Construction". and maybe, "Libs Lie about Crowd Size: SAD"

 

[Apharmd]

I'm not a fan of becoming more like republicans. I vote for democrats because they have a conciense, and at least try to have a dialogue before voting. I'm surprised people are in support of being obstructionist for the sake of it. I thought we were better than this.

The absolute last thing I want is for democrats to become like the GOP with regards to voting. Fuck Trump, and block any shitty stuff he proposes, absolutely. But if the only way for democrats to win I to become extreme to the point of hyperbole, America is already doomed.


You're using the tea party as a good example, really?

I disagree. This is advocating obstructionism because most of the time, when we give the Republicans an inch, they took a hundred kilometers. It is not possible to reason when the opponent does not respect you or treat you like an adult. Their reward at the end of the tunnel is fulfillment of their goals. Wealth enrichment at the cost of everyone else including their base.

Time for talk and compromise is over. We're going for a knuckle-down drag-out fight to resist this.

 

[Somnid]

I think Trump set the table, so have at at, his administration has been shown to be unstable and give very few fucks in just a short time period. The thing is, you can only make deals with opposition that is rational, if they want to fuck things over just because, then you have nothing to offer them.

 

[Gutek]

Remove every single appeaser. Do not give one single inch. Obstruct obstruct obstruct.

This is 100% correct. There is no room for appeasers and collaborators.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Olberman was on Bill Maher last week and had a solid point: Democrats need to treat Trump the way that the Tea Party treated Obama.

Total opposition to everything, and if any Democrats tried to play nice and not oppose, run someone against them in the primary and take their jobs.

The time for half measures is over with this crap.

Democrats have been selling the wrong thing. They have been selling compromise, when the voters want integrity and conviction. Then when standing your ground is requested, they treat the voter like a child and give bullshit reasons as to why they're reaching out to the other side. The other side sees compromise as weakness, not a positive characteristic.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Good. Never compromise, you will get rewarded. Just look at the Tea Party. The Democratic senators should be embarrassed but I also recognize that that chamber is more conciliatory by design and the field is not exactly friendly for 2018. Many of these senators are actual friends in real life despite policy differences.

But hopefully the pressure from the bottoms up start changing that.

The problem is, ethical questions aside, I don't think pragmatically the Dems can play the same game the Tea Party did and actually come out ahead.

I suppose we'll see come 2018 whether or not I'm right, because the Tea Party crushed midterms and if the Dems lose again there I don't see them having a hope or a prayer in the near future of recovering.

 

[Unknown One]

Obstruct the shit out of those fucking Captain Planet Villains.

 

[Instro]

On the one hand, Trump certainly doesn't deserve any olive branches.

On the other hand, more partisan gridlock will create more political dysfuction and American politics will continue its downward slide, which will simply enable more Trump-like candidates to emerge in the future.

How the fuck do we get out of this death spiral?

Dunno. I mean even if the dems were to play nice, it doesnt seem like that would make a difference as to whether the republicans would do so in the future. And certainly as things stand now it will be very difficult for the democrats to ever gain the kind of control that republicans will enjoy in the coming years.

 

[Dali]

I'm not a fan of becoming more like republicans. I vote for democrats because they have a conciense, and at least try to have a dialogue before voting. I'm surprised people are in support of being obstructionist for the sake of it. I thought we were better than this.

The absolute last thing I want is for democrats to become like the GOP with regards to voting. Fuck Trump, and block any shitty stuff he proposes, absolutely. But if the only way for democrats to win I to become extreme to the point of hyperbole, America is already doomed.


You're using the tea party as a good example, really?

The tea party was voted in because they promised to basically go against anything Obama. They did just that. They wouldn't even approve paying for shit that was already bought and forced a government shutdown. They did exactly what voters wanted them to do. They are an excellent example; Do what the people who voted you into office want you to do. I don't think Democrats are selfish or stupid enough to want a government shutdown like the opposition but they do not have to give any leeway on any other issue. They can not give the thumbs up on any supreme court candidate for four years as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Obstruct them.


It worked for the GOP

 

[Moofers]

Good. Its about time the democratic party start listening to its constituents rather than its donors. We're pissed and screaming for blood. We're applying war paint. We are preparing to march.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Finally! No quarter given dems, give those assholes the finger instead.