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Gotham S2 |OT| Dawn of Altruism - Mondays 8/7c

P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Halcyon said:
He was entering the realm of annoying whiny child actor for a bit to me, but last nights episode helped a bit.
Click to expand...

The basics of it is, until now he's had basically 0 agency as a character. All of his drama is reactive. It's a big problem with child roles in general, really.

But last episode he took charge, and it was glorious.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Funky Papa said:
That kid is going to be either an spectacularly gorgeous adult or a rather peculiar looking one.

With that said, her Selina has won me over during this season.
Click to expand...

How old you aiming for into adulthood? According to Google she's currently 16. Silver/Dana from The Goldbergs is 15. o_O
 
G

General_JGW

Banned
Im glad there are people on this message board that like Gotham... season 2 has been awesome, but other message boards laugh at you when you say this lol
 
I

Ishida

Banned
General_JGW said:
Im glad there are people on this message board that like Gotham... season 2 has been awesome, but other message boards laugh at you when you say this lol
Click to expand...

I'm not a TV series guy. Since I don't watch TV, and I also don't follow series on the Internet, not many have been able to hook me.

But there's just something about Gotham. Maybe because I'm a fan of prequels.

I know a lot of people say that Season 2 is where "the show started getting good", but I've liked it ever since Season 1. Sure, most characters not really well-developed back then, but The Penguin and his schemes to destroy his former bosses and his climb to the top of the foodchain was just plain astounding for me.

Penguin carried Season 1, just like Jerome started carrying Season 2 and then handed over to Nygma.

Gotham is currently the only TV series I'm watching, and I'm loving every episode so far.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Funky Papa said:
That kid is going to be either an spectacularly gorgeous adult or a rather peculiar looking one.

With that said, her Selina has won me over during this season.
Click to expand...

It's perfectly possible to be a peculiar looking but gorgeous adult.

Example, Natalie Dormer.
 
B

babuchy

Member
Best TV show at this moment, changing villain-of-the-week for Galavan's arc has made this show as great as it is now.

Sorry but i have a question... Is next episode mid-season finale or season finale? Sure it has been said but I didn't found it
 
SoldnerKei

SoldnerKei

Member
Anth0ny said:
holy shit yesterday's episode was amazing

animation3ueo32.gif


fuck
Click to expand...

"I'm Batman"

ok, not yet, but that totally went throu my head haha

last episode was good, and can't wait to see the Penguin on action now, Galavan's head must be his.
 
G

General_JGW

Banned
Ishida said:
I'm not a TV series guy. Since I don't watch TV, and I also don't follow series on the Internet, not many have been able to hook me.

But there's just something about Gotham. Maybe because I'm a fan of prequels.

I know a lot of people say that Season 2 is where "the show started getting good", but I've liked it ever since Season 1. Sure, most characters not really well-developed back then, but The Penguin and his schemes to destroy his former bosses and his climb to the top of the foodchain was just plain astounding for me.

Penguin carried Season 1, just like Jerome started carrying Season 2 and then handed over to Nygma.

Gotham is currently the only TV series I'm watching, and I'm loving every episode so far.
Click to expand...

same with me, I've enjoyed it since season 1, but i cant deny season 2 has been a lot better. But it does a good job of mixing a non-serious goofy vibe with grittiness and just overall interesting plots....there is always something going on to draw you in.

I also agree with you about penguin, his climb to the top was the best thing about season 1, I find myself always rooting for him lol
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
babuchy said:
Best TV show at this moment, changing villain-of-the-week for Galavan's arc has made this show as great as it is now.

Sorry but i have a question... Is next episode mid-season finale or season finale? Sure it has been said but I didn't found it
Click to expand...

Yeah, next episode. Then we've got a loooong break ahead of us ;___;

So, what do you guys think? Is Galavan going to get wrapped up next episode, or are they going to stretch his arc through the whole season?

I think I'd prefer they finish him now, honestly.

Funky Papa said:
Nygma becoming Penguin's life coach remains one of the better turns in modern comicbooky TV. Those two kill me.
Click to expand...

I'd watch a sitcom following their wacky, murderous exploits as the roomies from hell, yeah.
 
B

babuchy

Member
Poodlestrike said:
So, what do you guys think? Is Galavan going to get wrapped up next episode, or are they going to stretch his arc through the whole season?

I think I'd prefer they finish him now, honestly
Click to expand...

I think, especially after that team-gordon pic, that they will close Galavan's arc. I love him as a villain, is great but as you've said I prefer that finish him too
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Let's be honest here. Gotham is a lot better than most people give it credit for.

For example, I really liked Jessica Jones. I thought it was a well made show, and I think Netflix has been doing a great job with their Marvel shows.

But for all the critical praise that Jessica Jones is getting (and a lot of it is well-deserved) there were many areas where Gotham S2 has been better than Jessica Jones.

1) I think Gotham has much stronger supporting characters than Jessica Jones. (I'll admit, David Tennant as Kilgrave is awesome). But I don't think Simpson, Jeri Hogarth, Wendy, Robin, and Reuben were all that interesting of characters. In fact they were pretty flat characters throughout the entire season. I'll take Sean Pertwee, Donal Logue, and Morena Baccarin, over most of the supporting actors / characters in Jessica Jones.

2) The production for Jessica Jones actually looked kind of lower budget, compared to Gotham's high production values and movie-like cinematography. Which is strange because Jessica Jones was only 13 episodes, compared to Gotham, which has 22 episode seasons.

3) The last two episodes of Gotham had better fight scenes than the majority of Jessica Jones's 13 episodes. And Gordon / Alfred don't even have super powers or supernatural abilities like Jessica Jones. The elevator fight scene with Gordon was great. The fight scene with Gordon and the monks was great. Alfred vs Tabitha was a fun fight. Seeing Theo Galavan beat the shit out of Gordon was really interesting.

4) Also, Jessica Jones S1 made a similar mistake as Gotham S1.
An unnecessary lesbian subplot with Jeri Hogarth that didn't add anything interesting to the rest of the main story. It was almost as unnecessary as the Barbara/Rene Montoya lesbian angle in Season 1 that took time away from more interesting stories, like Penguin's story.

Again, I don't want to shit on Jessica Jones, because I think the show was very good. I really liked Kristen Ritter and David Tennant. I think Kilgrave was one of the best villains that has ever appeared in the MCU.
 
G

General_JGW

Banned
Oddduck said:
Let's be honest here. Gotham is a lot better than most people give it credit for.

For example, I really liked Jessica Jones. I thought it was a well made show, and I think Netflix has been doing a great job with their Marvel shows.

But for all the critical praise that Jessica Jones is getting (and a lot of it is well-deserved) there were many areas where Gotham S2 has been better than Jessica Jones.

1) I think Gotham has much stronger supporting characters than Jessica Jones. (I'll admit, Kilgrave was awesome though). I don't think Simpson and Jeri Hogarth were that interesting of characters.

2) The production for Jessica Jones actually looked kind of lower budget, compared to Gotham's high production values and movie-like cinematography. Which is strange because Jessica Jones was only 13 episodes, compared to Gotham which has 22 episode seasons.

3) The last two episodes of Gotham had better fight scenes than the majority of Jessica Jones's 13 episodes. And Gordon / Alfred don't even have superheroes or supernatural abilities like Jessica Jones. The elevator fight scene with Gordon was great. The fight scene with Gordon and the monks was great. Alfred vs Tabitha was a fun fight. Seeing Theo Galavan beat the shit out of Gordon was really interesting.

4) Also, Jessica Jones S1 made a similar mistake as Gotham S1.
An unnecessary lesbian subplot with Jeri Hogarth that didn't add anything interesting to the rest of the main story. It was almost as unnecessary as the Barbara/Rene Montoya lesbian angle in Season 1 that took time away from more interesting stories.

Again, I don't want to shit on Jessica Jones, because I think the show was very good. I really liked Kristen Ritter and David Tennant. I think Kilgrave was one of the best villains that has ever appeared in the MCU.
Click to expand...

just quoting to say i agree with your entire comparison, well put
 
A

Alpende

Member
I really liked this episode. Season 2 is so much better than season 1 it's unbelievable. Bruce being ice-cold, Ed and Penguin being buds is great. Good stuff
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Oddduck said:
Let's be honest here. Gotham is a lot better than most people give it credit for.

For example, I really liked Jessica Jones. I thought it was a well made show, and I think Netflix has been doing a great job with their Marvel shows.

But for all the critical praise that Jessica Jones is getting (and a lot of it is well-deserved) there were many areas where Gotham S2 has been better than Jessica Jones.

1) I think Gotham has much stronger supporting characters than Jessica Jones. (I'll admit, David Tennant as Kilgrave is awesome). But I don't think Simpson, Jeri Hogarth, Wendy, Robin, and Reuben were all that interesting of characters. In fact they were pretty flat characters throughout the entire season. I'll take Sean Pertwee, Donal Logue, and Morena Baccarin, over most of the supporting actors / characters in Jessica Jones.

2) The production for Jessica Jones actually looked kind of lower budget, compared to Gotham's high production values and movie-like cinematography. Which is strange because Jessica Jones was only 13 episodes, compared to Gotham, which has 22 episode seasons.

3) The last two episodes of Gotham had better fight scenes than the majority of Jessica Jones's 13 episodes. And Gordon / Alfred don't even have super powers or supernatural abilities like Jessica Jones. The elevator fight scene with Gordon was great. The fight scene with Gordon and the monks was great. Alfred vs Tabitha was a fun fight. Seeing Theo Galavan beat the shit out of Gordon was really interesting.

4) Also, Jessica Jones S1 made a similar mistake as Gotham S1.
An unnecessary lesbian subplot with Jeri Hogarth that didn't add anything interesting to the rest of the main story. It was almost as unnecessary as the Barbara/Rene Montoya lesbian angle in Season 1 that took time away from more interesting stories, like Penguin's story.

Again, I don't want to shit on Jessica Jones, because I think the show was very good. I really liked Kristen Ritter and David Tennant. I think Kilgrave was one of the best villains that has ever appeared in the MCU.
Click to expand...

Great post. Completely agree. Gotham is the highest-looking budget shows out there with amazing cinematography.
 
S

Succinct Verbosity

Member
The most important thing to me is Gotham being fun. I mean Gotham has its dark moments, but even they seem easier to watch than the Netflix shows. I love Daredevil, but some scenes are a chore to get through at times.
 
R

Rosur

Member
Fell behind with watching Gotham and finally caught ep last night really enjoyed the Nygma and Penguin scenes and Nygma embracing his evil side.
 
S

Skux

Member
Finally caught up... what a boss episode. Bruce on FIRE. Alfred finally shows his fighting chops.

Also, Bruce and Selina is great. They really nail a protype Batman/Catwoman relationship. Think about how bad it could have been with child actors, and then look at how well it's done on screen. There was a lot of angst between them last season but now it's mostly been replaced by dialogue that lets the audience take in the subtext within it.

Also, "slap slap joint" and "rub and tug" haha
 
P

Pachimari

Member
Oddduck said:
Let's be honest here. Gotham is a lot better than most people give it credit for.

For example, I really liked Jessica Jones. I thought it was a well made show, and I think Netflix has been doing a great job with their Marvel shows.

But for all the critical praise that Jessica Jones is getting (and a lot of it is well-deserved) there were many areas where Gotham S2 has been better than Jessica Jones.

1) I think Gotham has much stronger supporting characters than Jessica Jones. (I'll admit, David Tennant as Kilgrave is awesome). But I don't think Simpson, Jeri Hogarth, Wendy, Robin, and Reuben were all that interesting of characters. In fact they were pretty flat characters throughout the entire season. I'll take Sean Pertwee, Donal Logue, and Morena Baccarin, over most of the supporting actors / characters in Jessica Jones.

2) The production for Jessica Jones actually looked kind of lower budget, compared to Gotham's high production values and movie-like cinematography. Which is strange because Jessica Jones was only 13 episodes, compared to Gotham, which has 22 episode seasons.

3) The last two episodes of Gotham had better fight scenes than the majority of Jessica Jones's 13 episodes. And Gordon / Alfred don't even have super powers or supernatural abilities like Jessica Jones. The elevator fight scene with Gordon was great. The fight scene with Gordon and the monks was great. Alfred vs Tabitha was a fun fight. Seeing Theo Galavan beat the shit out of Gordon was really interesting.

4) Also, Jessica Jones S1 made a similar mistake as Gotham S1.
An unnecessary lesbian subplot with Jeri Hogarth that didn't add anything interesting to the rest of the main story. It was almost as unnecessary as the Barbara/Rene Montoya lesbian angle in Season 1 that took time away from more interesting stories, like Penguin's story.

Again, I don't want to shit on Jessica Jones, because I think the show was very good. I really liked Kristen Ritter and David Tennant. I think Kilgrave was one of the best villains that has ever appeared in the MCU.
Click to expand...

This post is right. This, right here. Agree on everything and I'm a huge MCU fan.
 
A

Alandrus Sun

Banned
Oddduck said:
Let's be honest here. Gotham is a lot better than most people give it credit for.

For example, I really liked Jessica Jones. I thought it was a well made show, and I think Netflix has been doing a great job with their Marvel shows.

But for all the critical praise that Jessica Jones is getting (and a lot of it is well-deserved) there were many areas where Gotham S2 has been better than Jessica Jones.

1) I think Gotham has much stronger supporting characters than Jessica Jones. (I'll admit, David Tennant as Kilgrave is awesome). But I don't think Simpson, Jeri Hogarth, Wendy, Robin, and Reuben were all that interesting of characters. In fact they were pretty flat characters throughout the entire season. I'll take Sean Pertwee, Donal Logue, and Morena Baccarin, over most of the supporting actors / characters in Jessica Jones.

2) The production for Jessica Jones actually looked kind of lower budget, compared to Gotham's high production values and movie-like cinematography. Which is strange because Jessica Jones was only 13 episodes, compared to Gotham, which has 22 episode seasons.

3) The last two episodes of Gotham had better fight scenes than the majority of Jessica Jones's 13 episodes. And Gordon / Alfred don't even have super powers or supernatural abilities like Jessica Jones. The elevator fight scene with Gordon was great. The fight scene with Gordon and the monks was great. Alfred vs Tabitha was a fun fight. Seeing Theo Galavan beat the shit out of Gordon was really interesting.

4) Also, Jessica Jones S1 made a similar mistake as Gotham S1.
An unnecessary lesbian subplot with Jeri Hogarth that didn't add anything interesting to the rest of the main story. It was almost as unnecessary as the Barbara/Rene Montoya lesbian angle in Season 1 that took time away from more interesting stories, like Penguin's story.

Again, I don't want to shit on Jessica Jones, because I think the show was very good. I really liked Kristen Ritter and David Tennant. I think Kilgrave was one of the best villains that has ever appeared in the MCU.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this post for two main reasons. For one, David Tennant was passable as Kilgrave doing nothing more than a super hammy performance. And second, I disagree with the notion that JJ is a good show deserving of any critical praise. I thought the entire series was boring, unimaginative, and nonsensical. Now, I'm not the biggest fan of Gotham but it is miles better than JJ.
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Alandrus Sun said:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this post for two main reasons. For one, David Tennant was passable as Kilgrave doing nothing more than a super hammy performance. And second, I disagree with the notion that JJ is a good show deserving of any critical praise. I thought the entire series was boring, unimaginative, and nonsensical. Now, I'm not the biggest fan of Gotham but it is miles better than JJ.
Click to expand...

My main point is I didn't see anything in Jessica Jones that felt significantly better than Gotham S2 or even S1 for that matter. I liked Jessica Jones a lot, but I didn't say "wow, this is so much better than what's currently airing on network television".

I guess I'm tired of the hypocrisy from comic book fans (and TV critics) when it comes to Gotham.

One of the criticisms of Gotham S1 was: "It doesn't know what it wants to be."

- Does it want to be a crime noir detective show?
- Does it want to be a comic book show?
- Does it want to be a campy mob story?
- Does the tone want to be serious or campy? Or a mix of both?
- "I don't care for Barbara's lesbian angle with Rene Montoya!"
- "I'm tired of Gordon checking up on lil Bruce every episode, after his parents were killed."
- When Barbara makes dumb, selfish, or irresponsible decisions? "Such bad writing!"

But the same criticisms could be applied to Jessica Jones.

- Does it want to be a crime noir detective show?
- Does it want to be a superhero show?
- Does the tone want to be serious or campy? Or a mix of both? (the tone is all over the place -- especially in the later episodes)
- "I don't care for Jeri Hargrove's lesbian angle with Wendy!"
- "I'm tired of Jessica checking up on Hope every episode,
after her parents were killed."
- When Jessica makes dumb, selfish, or irresponsible decisions: "She's relatable!" "I can relate to her!"
(To catch Kilgrave, she tried to lock herself in a maximum facility prison and take blame for murders. She also fucked Luke Cage multiple times even though she murdered his wife.)
 
P

Penguin

Member
Speaking of critical response, guess should be prepared for all that to return this weekend as people are "forced" to watch the show for the BvS stuff
 
S

strafer

member
when I saw that letter with Bruce on it I thought;

From the Arkham Knight trailer.

In the event of my death, I hereby declare that all my worldly possessions pass to my son, Bruce Wayne. Bruce: I ask that you honour the Wayne family legacy, and commit yourself to the improvement of Gotham City, its institutions and its citizens. Please, be strong. You are young, but destined for great things. Make the most of your opportunities; use them to give back to a city that has given us so much, to change the lives of millions of people. Do not be frivolous with this wealth; please do not waste it all on fast cars and outrageous clothes, and the pursuit of a destructive lifestyle. Invest in Gotham. Treat its people like family; watch over them, and use this money to safeguard them from forces beyond their control. My deepest regret is I will not see you grow into the good man I know you will become. And finally, my son, I ask that you never abandon this city to fate. We have lived through dark days; there's no doubt there are more to come. But it is the good and great men who stand up for Gotham when others turn and run. In death, I will love you for ever. Your father, Thomas.
Click to expand...
 
S

strafer

member
yoooooooooooooooooooo....Alfred being fired...fucking heartbreaking :(

Man, Episode 3 is just The Joker and Harley. It's fucking awesome.
 
E

Effect

Member
Penguin said:
Speaking of critical response, guess should be prepared for all that to return this weekend as people are "forced" to watch the show for the BvS stuff
Click to expand...

Maybe but I've learned to tune out criticism of the show. I'm not saying the show is perfect at all. It has it's ups and downs but like before I've learned to ignore people that bashed the show for not being what they wanted instead of judging it on what it is and presenting. I think there is a difference too between those that have seen the show and didn't like it and moved on (100% fair in their case) and those that bash the show consistently in a desire to get other people to hate it as much as they do. Those are the people that hate that others like the show and continue to watch. There is nothing you can do with those people but ignore them. I think they're easy to spot too.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Effect said:
Maybe but I've learned to tune out criticism of the show. I'm not saying the show is perfect at all. It has it's ups and downs but like before I've learned to ignore people that bashed the show for not being what they wanted instead of judging it on what it is and presenting. I think there is a difference too between those that have seen the show and didn't like it and moved on (100% fair in their case) and those that bash the show consistently in a desire to get other people to hate it as much as they do. Those are the people that hate that others like the show and continue to watch. There is nothing you can do with those people but ignore them. I think they're easy to spot too.
Click to expand...

Personally, I try to look at what a show is trying to accomplish. I hated the premiere but enjoyed some episodes after that. A few of the recent episodes have been weak for me, but the show as a whole has improved. Just speaking for myself, I look forward to watching the episode on Hulu instead of feeling like its an obligation. I actually dropped this show halfway through last season and picked it up again before the S2 opener. The Ogre arc gave me hope for what the show could do in its future with original content.

This isn't "prestige" television. Someone could come in here every week and shit on the writing contrivances or the lazy dialog, same goes for Agents of SHIELD, The Flash, or Arrow. But this isn't trying to be intellectual television, it's a comic show that is trying to entertain. That doesn't mean it gets a pass on everything, but its goals are different from other shows.

I'm one of those people that doesn't mind criticism in an OT, a shitty episode is a shitty episode. But hate watching and trying to ruin other people's enjoyment isn't cool. If Gotham starts on aa continuous downward trend of shittyness, I'll just say "peace" and drop it. Had to do that earlier this year with Blindspot.

But yeah, I agree. There are going to be a lot of people that don't normally watch the show tuning in...and this isn't like the start of a new arc so there will be confusion. Haha
 
C

ChosenPredator

Banned
never seen this show yet but is it going to end (hypothetical season final) with bruce finally becoming batman but never being able to see him in the suit, I imagine its going to be a shot of gordon gazing at batman ...over the shoulder shot lol
 
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