Elevations are perfect. Lateral turns and dipping from slopes to dips. Much, much better than ever before.
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Gran Turismo 5 Spec II |OT| - We Love DLC!
- Thread starter Metalmurphy
- Start date
Elevations are perfect. Lateral turns and dipping from slopes to dips. Much, much better than ever before.
Stoffinator
Member
It's odd that there is no day and night racing or weather change on the new track. Was there a reason given as to why?
phosphor112
Banned
I've enjoyed these guys videos, but this guy has made a mistake and has tried to justify it. It makes no sense to me. What he's done is he did an elaborate FM4 vs GT5 physics comparison. Awesome. He did it to the absolute best of his abilities, going into detail on everything, except... that the R32 he compared from GT5 had sports (semi-slick) tires. He tried to justify his decision with this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6lPDJTUQ0k&
First of all, no, practically every car comes with sports tires unless it's racing spec.
Second, I can't understand the logic in that. There are people that agree with me, but am I crazy for pointing this out?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6lPDJTUQ0k&
First of all, no, practically every car comes with sports tires unless it's racing spec.
Second, I can't understand the logic in that. There are people that agree with me, but am I crazy for pointing this out?
-Amon-
Member
We could argue that the developers chose a softer compound to make the car easier to handle for casuals while who wants a more "realistic" approach can always chose a comfort tire.
Only a direct statement from the developers themselves could solve this issue i guess.
Until then i see no real point in arguing about this.
Only a direct statement from the developers themselves could solve this issue i guess.
Until then i see no real point in arguing about this.
Metalmurphy
Member
Just reading his comments on his own video is enough to not take him seriously.
phosphor112
Banned
Fair enough.
Would kill for Okayama in GT5, It's sooooo good in iR. Really getting tired of the fantasy tracks in GT5.
OK, I will take some time to answer this because it is one of my favorite subject in the history of Gran Turismo series.
And since I saw Metalmuphy got into debate on the YT video (that IamJacksLPs-guys replies are pure gold
) feel free to point the wise-man to this post.Gran Turismo 2 was the first GT game that introduced adequate suspension and tyre physics in the series (first GT was very simplified in that area, despite being above majority of other games backthan). With that came the first fundamental introduction of selection of tyres as we know it today, but in the slightly different form. We had Sports, Racing Slicks, Dirt and Control tyres.
Control tyres were the first step towards mimicing the *real-life* tyre slip/grip in the series, which is absolutely described in both in-game explanation and in game-manual. None of the cars were initially equipped with the Control-compound but player could do it for himself in order to experience the more *accurate* feel of the car. As manual says, Control Tyres are tyres which are as close as possible in characteristics as real tyres... (player) can experience a simulation of real driving which does not feel like a game. Those tyres require quicker braking, careful steering and delicate work with the accelerator. Those are tyres specific for the surfaced roads.
Gran Turismo 3 renamed Control compound into Simulation, clearly explaining how those tyres offer only slightly more grip and are only suitable for professional drivers.. Same logic for compounds remained, with offering Sports, Race and Dirt tyres for *normal* selection.
Both Control and Simulation tyres in both games were always very cheap - same philosophy that remained later for GT4 and GT5 - in order to make them accessible for interested drivers in any moment. Also, no cars actually came equipped with those - road cars were always equipped with Sport compound while race cars were equipped with the Race Hard compound - logic we still have today.
Gran Turismo 4 was the first game in the series that introduced Standard/Comfort (if I recall, US game was naming them Standard, while EU release called them Comfort) compound as *normal* selective compound with 1-2-3 range (hard/medium/soft or as GT4 was naming it, Economy/Luxury/Road), again with lowest price possible (Standard tyres carried no price - 0 Cr - in order to make the fully accessible at any moment). When you were purchasing the car (road vehicles) there was a special disclaimer after each purchase that said ...(cars are) fitted with the Sports Medium for circuit racing. For factory spec purchase Comfort (Standard) compound.
GT5
rologue introduced *Japanese* naming for compounds for the first time in the western-releases, as famous "N"/"S"/"R"/1/2/3/ logic. N1 were Comfort Hard, N3 were Comfort Soft, etc. Also, in the in-game manual - that majority never actually read properly - there was extremely detailed explanation of tyre-types and logic of their use. All cars were coming equipped with the Sport Hard/Medium compound by default (Racing for those few race cars), but with following explanation presented in the options:
Also, GT5
rologue went even further and gave the list of fitting-recommendations for various *types* of the cars, covering majority of similar models in game depending of production year/power/drivetrain type/weight:Gran Turismo 5 continued the same philosophy/principle where Comfort compound is the one that corresponds with almost all *factory-spec* vehicles, with notable exclusions of some supercar models that would probably be equipped with Sports Hard compound as their factory-spec tyre, but those are minority.
Greatest *issue* of GT5 is omission to actually present that philosophy in any of game-manuals: either game-manual, in-game digital manual and even in Apex book that came with Collector's Edition.
However, in some points game clearly implies such selections, such as Comfort/Soft tyre-compounds being mandatory in some Seasonals, etc. But all those *implications* are unfortunately very vague.
We have another clear example of above with post on Japanese GT official site (Polyphony was the one that noted that) where the Japanese finals for FT86 championship were driven on Comfort Hard (N1) compound:
To conclude, Gran Turismo series is very clear and transparent about the way tyres are fitted by default on the cars. GT5 *issue* of not making it clear enough as in previous games is probably one of the 346 small details that are missing from GT5's explanations and that have to be determined by the players themselves (such as brake-bias, LSD settings or whatnot).
But it does not also mean that guy is right when he concludes in way "if game have it as default, it is factory spec". It is not and it have never been. But to know that, man has to know his Gran Turismo better than he obviously does. Or to quote the wise-man himself in one of his gold-answers to Murph:
That's basically it.
Yes, it is weird that PD chose to fit stock cars with tyres other than factory/comfort.
Ultimately though,as amar has explained, PD has included a description of each tyre's spec and suggested use so this guy should've known to change out the tyres before his tests..
I think there is a problem though, where the difference between each tire tires is too large. Some cars are left in this odd zone where neither tire feels right. I with there was a comfort 1 through comfort 5 and sport 1 through sports 5. This would give us much more flexibility in adjusting the grip level of each car.
This also comes more into play with the older cars. The modern comfort tyres are obviously different to retro comfort tyres.
The ultimate tyre model (which probably isn't feasible), would be to gather data on all tyres that belong to each car in the game. Then you would do away with the comforts and only leave 'street,sports,race'..etc that utilize a uniform model based on PD's or other tyre manufacturer's data..
SolidSnakex
Member
PD hiring even more modelers (they previously had other job applications up for that area)
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/recruitment/job20.html
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/recruitment/job20.html
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
GT5
Also, GT5
Fixed you up with an English version for any future use
Metalmurphy
Member
Has anyone made a similar database for more GT5 cars?
I didn't wrote down that part in quoting in-game manuals above but it often says it is because of controller users. I just think it is just a subtle way to make game instantly accessible to less experienced players, while more demanding players will follow the manual and find the challenge they search for.
Hm, I wouldn't agree on this. 3-step change is more than enough IMO, while there is no any need for having Racing Soft compound at all, since it's grip is pure madness. However, it has to be noted that GT games from GT2-GT4 offered 5 compounds of Racing tyres IIRC, with addition of SuperSoft and fifth compound which was some kind of qualification tyre.
What GT5 lacks at this point is option that existed in pervious games for Arcade, 2P and iLink/LAN modes where you could choose the speed of actual wear and make it more/less evident. Previous games had Fast/Medium/Real tyre wear as an option with current model of wear in GT5 represents more-less the *medium* speed of wear. It would be great if they'd re-introduce such options, so people can decide would they want to use tyre-wear as strategic factor in shorter races, or they prefer *real* wear - which worked very well in GT4. Just another strange decision in skipping majority of options present in previous games in GT5 - which I sincerely hope will make a return in GT6.
Yes, this. But it has to be said how the Apex book supplied with Collector's (and Signature) editions of GT5 introduced vast amount of explanations of things related to GT5 that actually never got their way into game - from tyres and importance of grip-levels, to tyre-width, tyre dimensions, to influence of different types of rims (steel, aluminium..) to handling, weight, etc. It really remains to be seen is all that text - that was signed down by PD for all 3 territories - made during game development and options that were planned to be included in the game. If yes, than GT6 could really make majority of complaints to overall tuning-aspects - and especially those related to tyres - irrelevant.
Fixed you up with an English version for any future use
Thank you for this Vanilla, great work! Thanx!
There was a great thread on GTPLanet where one of the members commenced a crazy amount of testing in order to find out the proper compounds for many vehicles. However, when Spec 2.0 was introduced, tyre-characteristics changed drastically and got "back" to philosophy closer to Prologue's (which was much delicate to drive than initial Spec of GT5).
2.06 update changed both suspension and tyre-physics even more, with introducing the GTAcademy 2012's advanced physics. It was even more evident because all settings of brake-bias (for non-ABS driving) were made abysmal after 2.06 and had to be altered.
It is clear how PD refines physics regularly - which is absolutely a great thing. However, the list from Prologue above remains very accurate at this point, which was not the case with the GT5 vanilla-release.
Another aspect of PD I don't understand: new track released as DLC yet no events to race on it. I understand the UK seasonal with Goodwood going on but nothing on Motegi? Maybe they expect everyone is fatigued from it during GTA?
On another note, I miss the family cups from GT4 so much. The non-adjustable, besides power limiting, a-spec one make races do not suffice.
On another note, I miss the family cups from GT4 so much.
The non-adjustable, besides power limiting, a-spec one make races do not suffice.This drives me bonkers. I want modern feeling tyres on my old cars too. I love to drive them with odl tyres, but I also want to drive them with new ones.
MORE PD, HIRE MORE!!!!
Metalmurphy
Member
So... Vita version confirmed.
Well, I'm not confirming anything at this point.
Canis lupus
Member
dammit I still havent found a proper table to put my G25 wheel on. My GT5 experience is bored of the controller.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
What do you expect? The Playstation blogs/forums are fucking worthless -- the UK one pulled the same shit years ago with their Q&A session with him.
Build one yourself?
I expected Kazunori to come out and say that Spec 3.0 will be amazing. At least it would be dumb but confirm something. And talk about the cars for blowjobs thing as well.
"We are preparing new DLC" can mean 20 Nissans and 5 Toyotas. We all know how PD operates.
BradleyLove
Member
I dunno what country you're from but I bought one of these for £10. Does the job perfectly for me.
Draper Workbench
phosphor112
Banned
Thanks for the great post. I would point that guy over in this direction, but he blocked me because I questioned his logic.
Pretty sure nothing would change his mind. Didn't even watch or anything, but seeing all the posts about him here, I'd say he either already made up his mind before his research or doesn't care to take what matters into effect.
Just thought about this.
Receiving a replacement hdd this week for my PS3. Just running out of room on my 120gb, so I bought a 1TB.
I don't plan to do a backup on the drive (just save files to PS+ cloud), but just re-download and install everything again to have a fresh start. All the DLC for this game - is it locked into my save file or do I have to go through and re-download that separately from download list?
Receiving a replacement hdd this week for my PS3. Just running out of room on my 120gb, so I bought a 1TB.
I don't plan to do a backup on the drive (just save files to PS+ cloud), but just re-download and install everything again to have a fresh start. All the DLC for this game - is it locked into my save file or do I have to go through and re-download that separately from download list?
Metalmurphy
Member
You do yeah. And also don't forget the photos and replay files. They're not stored in the save file.
SolidSnakex
Member
IGN's "What Should Polyphony Needs to Do" for Gran Turismo 6
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/02/gran-turismo-6-what-polyphony-needs-to-do
Even though it's IGN the ideas really aren't that bad. I know Kaz has already said that in the future we're going to to see a wider selection of cars from other countries, so that's already happening. The only two that I really disagree with are the Vita compatibility and announcing it at TGS. I don't want it to be a PS3 game, and I can't see how a game that's really built for the PS4 would work well with cross-play through the Vita.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/02/gran-turismo-6-what-polyphony-needs-to-do
Even though it's IGN the ideas really aren't that bad. I know Kaz has already said that in the future we're going to to see a wider selection of cars from other countries, so that's already happening. The only two that I really disagree with are the Vita compatibility and announcing it at TGS. I don't want it to be a PS3 game, and I can't see how a game that's really built for the PS4 would work well with cross-play through the Vita.
Metalmurphy
Member
SolidSnakex
Member
Standard cars are definitely one of those things that receives a lot of backlash. I can't see them ever returning to the series after GT5. So we'll get fewer cars but they'll all be premium status in future games.
Metalmurphy
Member
It "receives a lot of backlash" by game "journalists" and people that don't actually care about the game and are only looking for stuff to trash it, not by fans of the series.
Removing the cars adds nothing of value to the game. Keeping them does. The only acceptable solution is to replace them all, or most of them, by premium versions, which won't happen.
Removing the cars adds nothing of value to the game. Keeping them does. The only acceptable solution is to replace them all, or most of them, by premium versions, which won't happen.
-Amon-
Member
Personally there are lots of standard cars i drive a lot, so many of them that i find it hard to believe that they will all be upgraded to premium.
So i prefer to have them as standards that not having them at all.
-Amon-
Member
So true.
I refuse to believe that there are no car modelers out there in the world that are up to PD's standards. Look and Super GT 2 for rF2.
Then there is these guys:
SolidSnakex
Member
Hey's i'm 100% in favor of keeping the standard models. They have their place as far as i'm concerned. But I just wonder if PD wants to hear how they're incompetent and/or lazy because they included standard cars in their game. Considering how obsessive they're about cars in general, that probably stung a little.
Outsourcing would be the way to go assuming that there's a lot of quality control going on. I still think that it would be best to allow PD to do the texturing after the modeling is done.
phosphor112
Banned
If it's between a POTENTIALLY "shoddy" outsource model, vs keeping it standard... i'd rather take the risk.