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[ChiefDada]

We're getting there, slowly but surely. RT is the key.




PS5

Movie

PS5

Movie

PS5

Movie

PS5

Movie

 

[CamHostage]

And then there's this...
it's why this thread exists?


Funko Fusion is kinda clunky-seeming and is for a brand that not everybody loves (to put it lightly), but this is a UE5-based project from in part former TT Games (Lego Star Wars, etc) teammembers. Shows some basic but nice stuff of the engine (deep down somewhere...) in a modern game, especially for what I would assume is probably made under a rush.

(It'll also be co-released on Switch as well as PS5/XSX, which will be interesting to see how it scales down... this actually is not the only fully-featured UE5 game which will have a Switch version, but there hasn't been much talk about fallback systems for leaving out Nanite or Lumen, although Fortnite has a lot of solutions in place which people don't talk about since it tends to present as graphically simple. The First Descendant incidentally still has past-gen versions in the works despite being UE5, but that does not include Switch.)

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

 

[SlimySnake]

meanwhile insomniac

 

[CamHostage]

meanwhile insomniac

Insomniac generally uses the same company, 3Lateral, to produce its face capture and rig that also created MetaHuman. (It's unclear if they used the same provider or went with Ziva Dynamics's ZRT services for the sequel, but either company could give you best-in-class facial rigs and scans.)

...But sure, if you have a game where the playfield is just Jack Black's face, knock yourself out with a cinema-quality MetaHuman like Şefki produced. A couple GBs for just one character's face isn't going to kill you if all you have in your game is one character and hardware that can run it okay. If that's not what you're making, however, you might want to slide around your settings and assets to be more game-ready.

 

[Hunnybun]

GTA6 is the one I’m counting on. All games look pretty good at this point - I agree, but I thought Spider-Man 2 would be the next step after what we saw with Ratchet - somehow it didn’t impress me as much. Hellblade 2 looks good but super limited, I need to see more of DS2 gameplay to make a full judgement call. Jedi Survivor actually looks pretty great imo, some parts at least, but not truly “Next Gen”. I guess I just keep expecting we’re going to level up graphically but once I get my hands on a game I’m left somewhat disappointed. Especially compared to when PS4 was releasing showpiece after showpiece with Naughty Dog, SSM etc

I think the problem with SM2 was mainly just the extent to which it was built on top of the existing map. There's just no getting away from the fact that the assets in the city are last gen assets. When you go back to the first game (especially on a base PS4) it's obviously a HUGE leap in overall fidelity, but it's not generational - it's more like the difference between a game running on a Steamdeck and on a 4090: very significant, but still clearly the same game.

Where I do think it made a really big technical advance is the RT. It's the only console game other than Metro Exodus where RT feels like a genuinely big deal. They somehow got the reflections looking solid even pretty close up, which I just haven't seen before. I think they did about as good a job as they possibly could given the huge constraint on building on that last-gen city.

 

[rofif]

Modders enabling path tracing in other RE engine games now.

These games make no sense with pt unless they hand placed a moon outside.
These games are all hand crafted and use shadowmaps. Unless you can remove shadow maps and change all the light sources into real light sources for pt, the result will be wrong. And even then, it will probably be too dark or too bright because the light sources placed there will either not be bright enough or will be too bright.

Rt still requires authoring the lights. Their strength, position, area and color. It’s probably even harder to get the artificial hero lighting or other effects with realistic rt lol

 

[CamHostage]

These games make no sense with pt unless they hand placed a moon outside.
These games are all hand crafted and use shadowmaps. Unless you can remove shadow maps and change all the light sources into real light sources for pt, the result will be wrong. And even then, it will probably be too dark or too bright because the light sources placed there will either not be bright enough or will be too bright

Right, they're not "rooms" lit like real places, they're more like film stages designed to look good in player scenarios. "It looks real" is a nice compliment after the designers have done all the work to fake reality.

(One of the advantages that games have over cinema, however, is that you can stick a light into a scene without a lightbulb ever being seen. If the practical lights of the game set don't work to light the player's view, you might be able to stick more light sources where they'd help, and you'd never have to worry about the camera accidentally turning to catch a Kino under the bar or a flag blocking too much undiffused light on the actress.)

It'll be an interesting period of growth in game graphic design, as more of these light-simulation techniques come onboard at useable speeds and quality, to see what techniques and tricks are used to actually use them (and where older methods still prove most practical) for the look game designers ultimately want.

 

[JCreasy]

Insomniac generally uses the same company, 3Lateral, to produce its face capture and rig that also created MetaHuman. (It's unclear if they used the same provider or went with Ziva Dynamics's ZRT services for the sequel, but either company could give you best-in-class facial rigs and scans.)

...But sure, if you have a game where the playfield is Jack Black's face, knock yourself out with a cinema-quality MetaHuman like Şefki produced. A couple GBs for just one character's face isn't going to kill you if all you have in your game is one character. If that's not what you're making, however, you might want to slide around your settings and assets to be more game-ready.

Will Nanite for skeletal meshes bring us game ready faces like Şefki‘s by the time PS6 rolls out?

It feels like we’re close when looking at 1946, Hellblade 2.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

That screenshot makes it look bad and frankly it is, but trust me, it comes in handy when needed most. The way it handles AO and indirect lighting is way better than the standard solution which is simply too bright and just feels gamey and last gen.

On PC you can up the bounces and it is far more accurate and more in line with Avatar.

We are talking about creativity and totk is more creative and ingenious than anything sony, microsoft, ea and ubisoft have come up with over the last 3 generations. The problem is that the player has to be creative to fully enjoy the game, and I am as creatively bankrupt as Marvel writers. But I youtube'd all the best creations and had an absolute blast. It's my first physics driven game after Half Life 2 and I was in love for the entire 150 hour run.

I don't have a single creative bone in my body. Still, the game feels more like an expansion than sequel, the dungeons were not real dungeons AGAIN, combat not improved, enemy variety should've been greater, etc etc

Why didn't they keep abilities like stasis from botw? The whole building mechanic while cool is still just one small part of the game ...not enough

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

meanwhile insomniac

Butt face

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Thats an example of last gen. We dont know what a next gen Anvil game looks like so lets just wait a few weeks until E3 before making any claims like 'Anvil is WAY better than Snowdrop'. Right now Avatar takes a big shit on Ghost recon and every other Anvil game.

Right? There's no examples of what anvil can do recently ...nothing to back that claim

 

[rofif]

Right, they're not "rooms" lit like real places, they're more like film stages designed to look good in player scenarios. "It looks real" is a nice compliment after the designers have done all the work to fake reality.

(One of the advantages that games have over cinema, however, is that you can stick a light into a scene without a lightbulb ever being seen. If the practical lights of the game set don't work to light the player's view, you might be able to stick more light sources where they'd help, and you'd never have to worry about the camera accidentally turning to catch a Kino under the bar or a flag blocking too much undiffused light on the actress.)

It'll be an interesting period of growth in game graphic design, as more of these light-simulation techniques come onboard at useable speeds and quality, to see what techniques and tricks are used to actually use them (and where older methods still prove most practical) for the look game designers ultimately want.

Exactly. Glad to see you understood my points.
Of course technically RT is great but it requires arting the whole game with it. What lightbulb, what color, where, how bright, radius etc etc etc..
Unless it's dragons dogma 2 and you just have THE SUN and few torches. But at this point, just "THE SUN" might not bring the filmic desired effect

 

[H . R . 2]

New HB2 Screenshot:

it looks gorgeous but even here it looks too limited,
we'll see

 

[Luipadre]

New HB2 Screenshot:

it looks gorgeous but even here it looks too limited,
we'll see

Chromatic Aberration is insane. I like subtle CA and film grain use, but this aint it

 

[SlimySnake]

These games make no sense with pt unless they hand placed a moon outside.
These games are all hand crafted and use shadowmaps. Unless you can remove shadow maps and change all the light sources into real light sources for pt, the result will be wrong. And even then, it will probably be too dark or too bright because the light sources placed there will either not be bright enough or will be too bright.

Rt still requires authoring the lights. Their strength, position, area and color. It’s probably even harder to get the artificial hero lighting or other effects with realistic rt lol

Did you click on the screenshots? They literally all benefit from PT here. The shadows especially get the biggest upgrades, especially the self shadowing.

How can you look at those screenshots and think these games make no sense with PT.

 

[Schmendrick]

How can you look at those screenshots and think these games make no sense with PT.

are you seriously asking rofif of all people that? That guy has worse eyeseight than Mr Magoo, or at least he pretends to when it comes to anything RT/PT.

 

[mrMUR_96]

There's a huge difference even with this hacky mod in games that were never designed for PT/RT. How can anyone downplay the impact of proper lighting in games.
Resident Evil path tracing comparison

 

[SlimySnake]

There's a huge difference even with this hacky mod in games that were never designed for PT/RT. How can anyone downplay the impact of proper lighting in games.
Resident Evil path tracing comparison

I kinda understand what he's saying with authoring the lights. Sometimes due to the lack of 2+ bounce lighting even with RT and PT, you get darkened areas that need manual intervention. But UE5 actually lets you place hidden light sources to ensure that doesnt happen. Lords of the Fallen devs had a dev diary about Lumen and they showed putting fake lights in there. So yes, without dev intervention on these old games, you might get scenarios where some areas are overly darkened but to say it makes no sense is bizarre when devs are designing games around RTGI today and know exactly which areas are darkened and need additional light sources.

Edit: the third RE4 comparison kinda proves his point. The lighting intensity of the lamps on the statues there is too low in PT mode. Whereas in the standard version, the statues get proper bounce lighting from the lamp. Or at least the bounce lighting intended by the artist. So you would need an artist to go in and update the intensity parameter of that light for the light bounce.

However the rest? Come on, the shadows especially completely revamp the image. Ashley especially looks CG because she no longer stands out like a fucking cartoon character.

 

[GymWolf]

meanwhile insomniac

We are almost there with the movies dude (cit.)

 

[GymWolf]

New HB2 Screenshot:

it looks gorgeous but even here it looks too limited,
we'll see

Disgusting chromatic aberration aside, i'm not impressed by these rocks.

 

[SlimySnake]

i'm not impressed by these rocks.

you and your rock fetish.

These are just from this thread alone and i got tired of quoting after 10 because there are 100 other rock mentions in your posts lol

everyone noticed the rocks disappearing after a couple of seconds in the horizon 2 first gameplay when the mammouth destroy the rock structure.

Uneven rock textures are gonna be my death this gen.

That's not a nextgen rock

It's a good rock

Also better rocks than aw2, don't forget that.

I'm noticing an higher fidelity for the ground and rocks in the tech demo and i'm not an expert in light systems but the tech demo just look more photorealistic.

Agree, the finer micro-details of the infamous rocks in ue5 demo are still a notch superior.

Not sold on these rocks until we get better quality footage.

Not even talking about being barren, just how unimpressive the rocks look.

From afar, every rock looks good, especially on gif.

Try this immediately, play robocop, look at the famous ue5 rooks in the open area from mid distance, then get up close, the difference is night and day, i bet the rocks in that gif look like smeared low res shit when zoomed in.

I'm an alan wake 2 rocks hater since 1993 dude.

Your tag should be Rock Hard.

 

[GymWolf]

you and your rock fetish.

These are just from this thread alone and i got tired of quoting after 10 because there are 100 other rock mentions in your posts lol























Your tag should be Rock Hard.

It's because rocks formations are what you see the most in any game not inside a modern city, and majority of games are outside cities, like 95% of them.

Rocks Are the first thing these cunts should nail.
You got your vegetation kink solved by horizon and avatar, don't break my balls because mine is still unsolved

But the hb2 screen is too shitty to judge.

If not even a stricted, small game can have perfect rocks, we are really done.

To put it bluntly, this gen doesn't rock my world.

 

[Masterofchapter]

Ghost recon breakpoint looks way better than division

Thats an example of last gen. We dont know what a next gen Anvil game looks like so lets just wait a few weeks until E3 before making any claims like 'Anvil is WAY better than Snowdrop'. Right now Avatar takes a big shit on Ghost recon and every other Anvil game.

Again I am comparing both engines in last gen ac games looks way better than division or anything from snowdrop,

 

[SlimySnake]

It's because rocks formations are what you see the most in any game not inside a modern city, and majority of games are outside cities, like 95% of them.

Rocks Are the first thing these cunts should nail.
You got your vegetation kink solved by horizon and avatar, don't break my balls because mine is still unsolved

But the hb2 screen is too shitty to judge.

If not even a stricted, small game can have perfect rocks, we are really done.

To put it bluntly, this gen doesn't rock my world.

they said they are using nanite so not sure what happened here. maybe its the chromatic abberation or the low res xsx footage.

Whats funny is that their fake bullshot ubisoft reveal trailer was built on the UE4 engine, and was INENGINE according to Phil Spencer, and had better rocks. basically the same rocks we saw in the UE4 Rebirth demo.

I think the quixel rocks are downgraded again and again until they can get the game running at a stable framerate. No one is scanning fake rocks. UE5's nanite was supposed to let devs import those film quality assets in without losing the detail, but we are not seeing that here. the detail is clearly lost. maybe its not using nanite.

 

[SlimySnake]

Again I am comparing both engines in last gen ac games looks way better than division or anything from snowdrop,

I dont know if i agree. I have played AC Origin and Valhalla, and both Ghost Recon and Division 2 and they are all in the same league.

But right now, we have seen two snow drop games and no anvil games so not sure how anyone can give Anvil the edge without seeing anything. let alone think its way better.

 

[mrqs]

they said they are using nanite so not sure what happened here. maybe its the chromatic abberation or the low res xsx footage.

Whats funny is that their fake bullshot ubisoft reveal trailer was built on the UE4 engine, and was INENGINE according to Phil Spencer, and had better rocks. basically the same rocks we saw in the UE4 Rebirth demo.



I think the quixel rocks are downgraded again and again until they can get the game running at a stable framerate. No one is scanning fake rocks. UE5's nanite was supposed to let devs import those film quality assets in without losing the detail, but we are not seeing that here. the detail is clearly lost. maybe its not using nanite.

As I was noticing, it looks like most devs can't handle assets with massive polygon counts, some because of the amount of GBs it makes the final game (extremely heavy) and because working dev pipelines aren't optimized yet for assets with near infinite number of polygons.

We'll get there in the next generation, I'm sure.

 

[JCreasy]

I'm kinda annoyed Fortnite sucked up all the creative game development energy at Epic.

Epic should've dropped a photorealistic game with Unreal Engine 5 and that reality is so obvious it's not even funny.

Ok, they got bored with Unreal Tournament. Cliff left and they sold Gears. Ok. But . . . that's it. Mustard's like, "I have an idea" and they go all in and drop everything else.

Yes, the Matrix demo was a bit of a half measure. Honestly, Epic should've delivered the sweeping, gen 9, AAA fantasy RPG we've been waiting for.

They could be helping sell Unreal Engine 5 buy shipping AAA Unreal Engine 5 games. Not Fortnite upgrade.

Mustard, if you're reading this: I want an Unreal Engine 5 Shadow Complex, please. NOT a remake. A sequel. Side scroller. With 3Lateral 4D face scans for the cutscenes.

 

[CamHostage]

We'll get there in the next generation, I'm sure.

Perhaps. But there's no sign of a new optical physical media format on the horizon, (BD barely improved this gen, aside from some layering thanks to the UHD BD reader,) and drive storage is not growing exponentially to keep up with file size demands; home internet bandwidth is also hitting a threshold. UE5 and modern mesh techniques and other asset handlers are making it easier to make use of very big files in manageable ways, but the dream of throwing unretouched CGI-quality assets into a game app and everything going along swimmingly has always begged questioning...

 

[CamHostage]

I think the quixel rocks are downgraded again and again until they can get the game running at a stable framerate. No one is scanning fake rocks. UE5's nanite was supposed to let devs import those film quality assets in without losing the detail, but we are not seeing that here. the detail is clearly lost.

Reality has to intrude at some point.

Developers have to make something that can actually be released and played on real hardware. Aspects of that trailer five years ago could be done conceivably on real hardware (much of it is likely in there, and some of it may actually be better than it was on paper in the teaser trailer, though the end-up result may not be as impressive in person,) but there's a process to it and it's not always pretty.

(*We can both be still bitter that Microsoft labeled the Hellblade 2 trailer as "captured entirely in engine. Built for the new Xbox Series X", when they A. were half a decade away from actually having this game running and ready to deliver game on an Xbox Series X and B. were running this on a very different version of the engine, particularly when they jumped to promote that they would also use the even-better UE5 as soon as it was announced, and not at all with game-ready assets. This old 2019 teaser makes sense as a promotional announcement, but they should never have said it had anything to do with real playable game-engine tech.)

maybe its not using nanite.

Guys, guys, guys... we have got to get over this, "Maybe they're doing it wrong?" thing with Nanite and Lumen and other tech features that we feel promised us more than we've actually played.

You can go read first-hand experiences with development using Nanite (you don't even need to deep-dive into pro UE forums, there are plenty of surface-level reports from working or indie developers) to get an idea of working with this technology. It's conceptually fantastic, evolutionary important, but challenging in practice. Nanite is not a magic elixir which cures all now that it exists.

 

[Masterofchapter]

I dont know if i agree. I have played AC Origin and Valhalla, and both Ghost Recon and Division 2 and they are all in the same league.

But right now, we have seen two snow drop games and no anvil games so not sure how anyone can give Anvil the edge without seeing anything. let alone think its way better.

Ghost recon breakpoint looks way better than division 2

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

you and your rock fetish.

These are just from this thread alone and i got tired of quoting after 10 because there are 100 other rock mentions in your posts lol























Your tag should be Rock Hard.

Lol

 

[ChiefDada]

New HB2 Screenshot:

it looks gorgeous but even here it looks too limited,
we'll see

Graphics thread...

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Again I am comparing both engines in last gen ac games looks way better than division or anything from snowdrop,

What use is that comparison when we have Avatar vs AC Valhalla/Mirage/Skull and Bones?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

New HB2 Screenshot:

it looks gorgeous but even here it looks too limited,
we'll see

What do you mean "limited"? The black bars? If so I agree I feel they really undermine the graphics prowess of this game.

It's like "yeah amazing, but what about those black bars that take up 35% of screen real estate"? It's cheating. A reminder they couldnt get "there" without this crutch. I'm still excited for the game it just bothers me

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Chromatic Aberration is insane. I like subtle CA and film grain use, but this aint it

And how much do you want to bet that on console there will be no way to reduce CA?

 

[H . R . 2]

Graphics thread...

haha, not by a long shot

It's like "yeah amazing, but what about those black bars that take up 35% of screen real estate"? It's cheating. A reminder they couldnt get "there" without this crutch. I'm still excited for the game it just bothers me

I for one don't mind them, However, I do get why you might be annoyed by them.
but for consoles [especially given the forced parity between Series X and S], it is sometimes necessary, very much like The Order 1886
and that was worth it because there's no way we could have got that level of fidelity on PS4 without those black bars.
...and when your game is locked at 30fps on consoles you might as well give it that cinematic look and push it to the limits

you can get it on PC and play it without those bars

by "limited" I mean how the rock formations in such games limit player movement to lead them down a certain path.
as you can see, that previous screenshot was just a pretty vista and not much else.
I doubt if there's any meaningful exploration

 

[GymWolf]

Graphics thread...

Not mine until i see non-dark footage where you can actually see shit.

 

[luca_29_bg]

haha, not by a long shot



I for one don't mind them, However, I do get why you might be annoyed by them.
but for consoles [especially given the forced parity between Series X and S], it is sometimes necessary, very much like The Order 1886
and that was worth it because there's no way we could have got that level of fidelity on PS4 without those black bars.
...and when your game is locked at 30fps on consoles you might as well give it that cinematic look and push it to the limits

you can get it on PC and play it without those bars

by "limited" I mean how the rock formations in such games limit player movement to lead them down a certain path.
as you can see, that previous screenshot was just a pretty vista and not much else.
I doubt if there's any meaningful exploration

That's not true, Andrea Pessino explained multiple times that the order 1886 was since the beginning conceived as letterboxed title, for artistic reason, he said that ps4 it wasn't fill rate limited and that the game was more heavy with the 4xmsaa that if it had been without 4xmsaa but full screen 1920x1080p. He explained this so many times across forums but people like to make up things and that became the narrative of this game.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Did you click on the screenshots? They literally all benefit from PT here. The shadows especially get the biggest upgrades, especially the self shadowing.

Totally agree. Jarring even that there were so many missing shadows considering it could have been rasterized.

 

[CGNoire]

they said they are using nanite so not sure what happened here. maybe its the chromatic abberation or the low res xsx footage.

Whats funny is that their fake bullshot ubisoft reveal trailer was built on the UE4 engine, and was INENGINE according to Phil Spencer, and had better rocks. basically the same rocks we saw in the UE4 Rebirth demo.

I think the quixel rocks are downgraded again and again until they can get the game running at a stable framerate. No one is scanning fake rocks. UE5's nanite was supposed to let devs import those film quality assets in without losing the detail, but we are not seeing that here. the detail is clearly lost. maybe its not using nanite.

Because Hack ass Devs wont stop incessantly complaining about file sizes. I die inside everytime time devs or fans for that matter complain about that shit.

 

[H . R . 2]

That's not true, Andrea Pessino explained multiple times that the order 1886 was since the beginning conceived as letterboxed title, for artistic reason, he said that ps4 it wasn't fill rate limited and that the game was more heavy with the 4xmsaa that if it had been without 4xmsaa but full screen 1920x1080p. He explained this so many times across forums but people like to make up things and that became the narrative of this game.

that makes the accomplishment all the more impressive. thanks for sharing

 

[GymWolf]

Did he explained why the image was softer than my grandpa's balls?

Was it also an artistic vision?

I still remember this pessino dude when he was interviewed by an italian site (dude is italian) and said that their melee system was so innovative that they called it cine-melee (like cinematic melee because a video start when you use it).

It was that day that i knew my compatriot was full of shit and the game was gonna be mid at best

 

[luca_29_bg]

that makes the accomplishment all the more impressive. thanks for sharing

You're welcome! He explained this recently again in resetera forum if i'm not wrong! It's sad that the game can't be patched on ps5, no black bars and 4k/60fps would do wonders for that game!

 

[H . R . 2]

Did he explained why the image was softer than my grandpa's balls?

Was it also an artistic vision?

I still remember this pessino dude when he was interviewed by an italian site (dude is italian) and said that their melee system was so innovative that they called it cine-melee (like cinematic melee because a video start when you use it).

It was that day that i knew my compatriot was full of shit and the game was gonna be mid at best

if only that game had more rocks...

 

[GymWolf]

if only that game had more rocks...

No amount of rocks could save callisto or the order from being glorified tech demos.

 

[SlimySnake]

Speaking of nanite and rocks, Avowed has both lumen and nanite active, and it still looks very uneven. Some areas look fantastic while others look flat. it's no avatar but there are at least 3-4 areas shown in this developer overview that look absolutely stunning.

Timestamped or skip to the visuals section:

Dune is also very similar. Some shots look next gen but in the same trailer it looks like a mediocre last gen game. i think we might be hitting the budget and talent bottlenecks here. you cant have every dev be like rockstar and nd devs meticulously going in and trying to make every area look the best in every lighting condition.

 

[GymWolf]

Games looking good one moment and then bad 2 min later is the story of this gen.

No game is safe, no cyberpunk, no anal wake 2 no horizon no avatar no nothing.

Hb2 is our next hope.

 

[FalconPunch]

Games looking good one moment and then bad 2 min later is the story of this gen.

No game is safe, no cyberpunk, no anal wake 2 no horizon no avatar no nothing.

Hb2 is our next hope.

 

[mrqs]

Perhaps. But there's no sign of a new optical physical media format on the horizon, (BD barely improved this gen, aside from some layering thanks to the UHD BD reader,) and drive storage is not growing exponentially to keep up with file size demands; home internet bandwidth is also hitting a threshold. UE5 and modern mesh techniques and other asset handlers are making it easier to make use of very big files in manageable ways, but the dream of throwing unretouched CGI-quality assets into a game app and everything going along swimmingly has always begged questioning...

Maybe we get there with game streaming, who knows. But overall I agree with you, things are moving fast but others seem to be stagnating, which is a real problem.