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[SlimySnake]

Slimy did you know that switch 2 support mesh shaders?

Are we gonna see a switch game that use MS before a sony game that use the same tech?

only three games on ps5 use it. 4 years after launch. no one is using mesh shaders or RT on the switch.

 

[Kaiserstark]

So basically they add rt ambient occlusion, shadows, better resolution reflection and finally some sort of rtgi (not to it's full scale), they are in really good state, wolverine just need more advanced rtgi and implement mesh shading tech alongside better quality character models

It's pretty much what they are gonna do, this is what insomniac are aiming to do with Wolverine :

 

[SlimySnake]

This is what Nintendo developers are doing in 2025.

i get that MP4 is on the switch but thats a PS3 era hardware and PS3 had better looking jungles than that.

Expect less than the bare minimum from Nintendo devs on the switch 2. They might produce some pleasing looking games due to their art styles but i have zero faith in Nintendo engineers to be able to implement ray tracing let alone mesh shader support in a 2-3 tlfops handheld.

 

[AW_CL]

So basically they add rt ambient occlusion, shadows, better resolution reflection and finally some sort of rtgi (not to it's full scale), they are in really good state, wolverine just need more advanced rtgi and implement mesh shading tech alongside better quality character models

 

[Kaiserstark]

Even Ratchet got a good upgrade on the Pro with the Fidelity mode with improved ray tracing, PSSR, and enhanced performance averaging 50–60 FPS with ray tracing features enabled. The RT Reflections have even more more detail on average than Spider-Man 2. So I think we can expect Insomniac to be pretty ambitious with the Pro given that they'll have more time.

 

[Msamy]

DF reviewed the new Spiderman 2 RT features. You now get distant sun shadows thanks to RT shadows. You now have better interior RT reflections. As well as RTAO. All three are rather subtle changes.

It's disappointing that they didnt add RTGI instead. Wouldve been a much more noticeable upgrade.

They add some components of it but it's really sad that they don't implement full rtgi solution, John called their rt gi implementation screen space Gi, I doing quick search and found out that unity have same tech in the article

Screen Space Global Illumination | High Definition RP | 14.0.11

docs.unity3d.com

 

[GymWolf]

It's pretty much what they are gonna do, this is what insomniac are aiming to do with Wolverine :

People love to post this thing but i'm not sure why i should be impressed unless they aim at making every feature in that list, the best in the market.

For example, forbidden west has deformable sand and snow, you can literally put that on a list of tech features for that game but it's really not better than what we had on ps4 with frozen wild, best cinematic games probably already use film quality facial animations, many games have fluid dynamics, the shittiest water tech can be considered fluid dynamic, tlou2 is a ps4 game and already use motion matching better than 99% of next gen games, etc.



Do you get my point? If every aspect in that list is gonna be better than what we already have then it's exciting, but if it's just a list of pre-existent tech then i'm not sure why you people think so highly of it...

Am i missing something?

 

[SlimySnake]

It's pretty much what they are gonna do, this is what insomniac are aiming to do with Wolverine :

Wolverine's leaked footage isnt very impressive. They are still using PS4 quality assets just like they did in spiderman 2, and even though they might be placeholders this early in dev, im not seeing anything on par with Marvel's 1943.

On paper, yes, all of this sounds great. But we've seen them refuse to upgrade their assets before. They are being stubborn about it for some reason. they need to implement something like nanite, or mesh shader support otherwise we will keep seeing these old dated materials and assets.

 

[Msamy]

Wolverine's leaked footage isnt very impressive. They are still using PS4 quality assets just like they did in spiderman 2, and even though they might be placeholders this early in dev, im not seeing anything on par with Marvel's 1943.

On paper, yes, all of this sounds great. But we've seen them refuse to upgrade their assets before. They are being stubborn about it for some reason. they need to implement something like nanite, or mesh shader support otherwise we will keep seeing these old dated materials and assets.

Yes implement mesh shaders is a must have feature

 

[Buggy Loop]

I guess this is a resume of previous conference?

I feel like they've downgraded metahuman? Good to have faster RT and path tracing performances though, to be seen.

 

[RodriGames40]

only three games on ps5 use it. 4 years after launch. no one is using mesh shaders or RT on the switch.

Nintendo have been proven to have support for it already on internal engines, so they're definitely using it. I don't think you can break the 70 billion polygon barrier in a handheld though... So wouldn't be really unlimited geometry.

 

[GymWolf]

Crazy that we still don't have anything resembling this, even control or zelda or red faction come close to simulate material properties, noita is the closest thing but it doesn't have bendable wood, it just simulate every pixel of it so the destruction is as granular as it can get because the single pixels get eroded by fire, acid etc.



is this a problem of cpu or just lazy devs?

 

[Msamy]

I like this one

 

[Represent.]

I like this one

Quit 5 seconds in.

"Multiplayer extraction adventure"

Spoiler

does it look good?

 

[GymWolf]

I like this one

Looks decent for a cheap AA.

 

[Msamy]

Quit 5 seconds in.

"Multiplayer extraction adventure"

Spoiler

does it look good?

For a multiplayer title it looks graphically good but gameplay and other elements needs huge upgrades

 

[SlimySnake]

Quit 5 seconds in.

"Multiplayer extraction adventure"

Spoiler

does it look good?

I downloaded an alpha test last year and also quit 5 seconds in. lol

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Nintendo have been proven to have support for it already on internal engines, so they're definitely using it. I don't think you can break the 70 billion polygon barrier in a handheld though... So wouldn't be really unlimited geometry.

Only a pleb would think Nintendo (and their partners) wouldn't use RT when they have DLSS, Ray Reconstruction and tensor cores built into their new hardware. This will be the first time since 2005 that Nintendo will have hardware generally speaking 'in line' with the rest of the industry. People should not underestimate their engineers or art teams especially when you see what they done with a mobile phone chipset from 2015 lol. I predict their 3D Mario game won't look out of place up against Ratchet or Astrobot.

 

[SlimySnake]

Only a pleb would think Nintendo (and their partners) wouldn't use RT when they have DLSS, Ray Reconstruction and tensor cores built into their new hardware. This will be the first time since 2005 that Nintendo will have hardware generally speaking 'in line' with the rest of the industry. People should not underestimate their engineers or art teams especially when you see what they done with a mobile phone chipset from 2015 lol. I predict their 3D Mario game won't look out of place up against Ratchet or Astrobot.

2060 is the slowest RT card nvidia have ever released. That was in 2018. That was a 6 tflops card.

We've seen what the series s does with a 4 tflops GPU. Nothing. 90% of the games leave out RT and the ones that dont upscale from 560p and actually go lower.

nvidia RT performs roughly 30-50% better than AMD RT thats in the series s but the console will be held back by its handheld configs which will be held back by the wattage. RT is also heavily reliant on CPU as ive found over and over again despite my CPU capable of running at 180 watts all by itself and 5ghz.

if nintendo engineers waste their meager 2-3 tflops on rendering expensive RT effects, id be very surprised. even 99% of sony devs arent doing RT.

 

[SlimySnake]

Crazy that we still don't have anything resembling this, even control or zelda or red faction come close to simulate material properties, noita is the closest thing but it doesn't have bendable wood, it just simulate every pixel of it so the destruction is as granular as it can get because the single pixels get eroded by fire, acid etc.



is this a problem of cpu or just lazy devs?

Physics can be done on GPUs. You might need the CPU for a portion of it but physics and destruction is can definitely be done by modern GPUs. maybe it was true back in the day. i definitely remember physics cards that could be slotted into motherboards along with audio cards. now all of that shit is built into modern GPUs.

the reason why we are not getting it is because devs would rather waste gpu cycles on making things prettier. also with everyone now wanting 60 fps, you will need those simulations to be done at double the framerate at which point it might indeed become a cpu bottleneck.

that said, its impossible to say because literally no one is doing that kind of destruction anymore. there is nothing we can pop in to see if its a cpu or a gpu bottleneck. such a shame.

p.s i suppose the nvidia sponsored physics effects in AC unity and Batman AK could help us determine but iirc they definitely hit the gpu hard.

 

[Rain432]

some one should make a thread to compare ps4 games while running on ps5 pro vs ps4, i don't see a lot of comparison videos online

 

[RodriGames40]

2060 is the slowest RT card nvidia have ever released. That was in 2018. That was a 6 tflops card.

We've seen what the series s does with a 4 tflops GPU. Nothing. 90% of the games leave out RT and the ones that dont upscale from 560p and actually go lower.

nvidia RT performs roughly 30-50% better than AMD RT thats in the series s but the console will be held back by its handheld configs which will be held back by the wattage. RT is also heavily reliant on CPU as ive found over and over again despite my CPU capable of running at 180 watts all by itself and 5ghz.

if nintendo engineers waste their meager 2-3 tflops on rendering expensive RT effects, id be very surprised. even 99% of sony devs arent doing RT.

It is to question how much is Series S fucked by its memory pool, though. According to devs memory is the main reason RT features are cut there, as it cannot store the BvH for it. Switch 2 doesn't have this issue, and as long as they leverage the much faster intersection performance, the hardware for that should still be put to good use.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I’d rather games give the best possible visuals and experience no matter the techniques used to achieve them. For example I don’t need accurate (to the molecular level) physics for certain objects if they aren’t really seen much, that processing power could go to hair, water physics or something that would really better the immersion and experience, but I want them to look good enough to the eye. I don’t care if the game is path traced if the game has PS3 graphics and textures and its a AAAA game striving for “next gen” visuals. With today’s horsepower we shouldn’t have to compromise much honestly…

 

[SlimySnake]

I got a PS5 pro to try out some games since Bestbuy had it stock and a youtuber i like said he was going to return his. Figured what the hell, i know I can return it within 14 days and get a full refund.

TLDR; Not impressed. $700 for a 25-35% more powerful console isn't worth it. Maybe if it performed like the gpu specs and offered 67% more performance then sure. Bestbuy lets you return opened items within 14 days and during holiday season, they are extending the return period till January 31st so if you really want to try it, just try it for a few weeks then return it. this thing is going back as soon as I try out demon souls, ratchet and ff7 rebirth. Not worth $700. hell, not even worth $399. I expected better than 30% from cerny. DO NOT get this from a place that doesnt accept opened returns. There is a good chance you wont notice any difference.

Tried 3 games.

HFW - Looks amazing. They must have improved graphics in the fidelity mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they have enabled better AO, and shadows. Now its performance mode feels great but i can definitely say its not as sharp as fidelity.

Spiderman 2- this one just hurts. PSSR in performance mode has the same shimmering as the OG ps5 performance. Overall image quality is fine if you are not flying at fast speeds, but the moment you do the shimmering begins. I don't even think its running at 1440p internal resolution. this must be pssr 4k performance or 1080p internal resolution just like the base ps5.

The new RT effects are good. especially the distant shadows. I really like the skyline which already looked great but now they don't stand out and feel grounded if that makes any sense. Honestly, i think Horizon FW could really use these because a lot of the pop-in is shadow related.

TLOU2 - This is the one game that delivers on the Cerny pitch. great 4k pssr quality image. looks identical to native 4k. maybe a little better.

But it's the performance mode of the original game that explains all the compromises in Spiderman 2. My og ps5 runs the same section at 85 fps, ps5 pro? 105 fps. that's a mere 23% upgrade. it should easily be running at 120 fps locked. the only time it runs at a locked 120 fps is when the base ps5 would run at 95 fps. Turning on PSSR which renders at the same internal resolution gets us 78 fps. that means it cost us 34% just to use PSSR despite running at the same internal resolution.

And there in lies the problem. You have around 30% more GPU but PSSR is expensive so you have to settle for fewer RT effects at 60 fps at lower resolutions.

I wonder if GG didn't add RT shadows here because that would mean dropping to 1080p which would add shimmering like it does in Spiderman 2. ugh.

 

[SlimySnake]

I’d rather games give the best possible visuals and experience no matter the techniques used to achieve them. For example I don’t need accurate (to the molecular level) physics for certain objects if they aren’t really seen much, that processing power could go to hair, water physics or something that would really better the immersion and experience, but I want them to look good enough to the eye. I don’t care if the game is path traced if the game has PS3 graphics and textures and its a AAAA game striving for “next gen” visuals. With today’s horsepower we shouldn’t have to compromise much honestly…

The problem is that the games have hit that engine wall where they HAVE to use these new techniques to extract more performance.

Horizon FW looks amazing until it doesnt. The flying exposes the draw distance and pop-in issues that wouldve been resolved by RT and nanite. They had what 3x more vram bandwidth available on the ps5? 100x faster ssd speeds? Surely they couldve handled better draw distance and streaming but their engine just couldnt allow it.

Spiderman 2 has you fly at really high speeds. More next gen than anything else we've seen this gen. But because they didnt have a nanite like solution, they had to settle for PS4 quality assets that they could stream in and out really fast.

Games like Alan Wake 2 show that you dont need software lumen or path tracing to look next gen. Baked is still good enough for most linear games. Silent Hill 2 apparently doesnt utilize nanite for everything but they still feature some high quality assets. Callisto did as well. But again, linear game so they can get away with it.

If you have a bigger game like black myth or horizon or spiderman 2 then you better embrace these new techniques because otherwise you will end up making compromises and watch other lesser studios take you over.

 

[arkhamguy123]

I got a PS5 pro to try out some games since Bestbuy had it stock and a youtuber i like said he was going to return his. Figured what the hell, i know I can return it within 14 days and get a full refund.

TLDR; Not impressed. $700 for a 25-35% more powerful console isn't worth it. Maybe if it performed like the gpu specs and offered 67% more performance then sure. Bestbuy lets you return opened items within 14 days and during holiday season, they are extending the return period till January 31st so if you really want to try it, just try it for a few weeks then return it. this thing is going back as soon as I try out demon souls, ratchet and ff7 rebirth. Not worth $700. hell, not even worth $399. I expected better than 30% from cerny. DO NOT get this from a place that doesnt accept opened returns. There is a good chance you wont notice any difference.

Tried 3 games.

HFW - Looks amazing. They must have improved graphics in the fidelity mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they have enabled better AO, and shadows. Now its performance mode feels great but i can definitely say its not as sharp as fidelity.

Spiderman 2- this one just hurts. PSSR in performance mode has the same shimmering as the OG ps5 performance. Overall image quality is fine if you are not flying at fast speeds, but the moment you do the shimmering begins. I don't even think its running at 1440p internal resolution. this must be pssr 4k performance or 1080p internal resolution just like the base ps5.

The new RT effects are good. especially the distant shadows. I really like the skyline which already looked great but now they don't stand out and feel grounded if that makes any sense. Honestly, i think Horizon FW could really use these because a lot of the pop-in is shadow related.

TLOU2 - This is the one game that delivers on the Cerny pitch. great 4k pssr quality image. looks identical to native 4k. maybe a little better.

But it's the performance mode of the original game that explains all the compromises in Spiderman 2. My og ps5 runs the same section at 85 fps, ps5 pro? 105 fps. that's a mere 23% upgrade. it should easily be running at 120 fps locked. the only time it runs at a locked 120 fps is when the base ps5 would run at 95 fps. Turning on PSSR which renders at the same internal resolution gets us 78 fps. that means it cost us 34% just to use PSSR despite running at the same internal resolution.

And there in lies the problem. You have around 30% more GPU but PSSR is expensive so you have to settle for fewer RT effects at 60 fps at lower resolutions.

I wonder if GG didn't add RT shadows here because that would mean dropping to 1080p which would add shimmering like it does in Spiderman 2. ugh.

Solidrev

 

[SlimySnake]

Solidrev

lol yep. love that guy.

 

[CGNoire]

Crazy that we still don't have anything resembling this, even control or zelda or red faction come close to simulate material properties, noita is the closest thing but it doesn't have bendable wood, it just simulate every pixel of it so the destruction is as granular as it can get because the single pixels get eroded by fire, acid etc.



is this a problem of cpu or just lazy devs?

Yeah its beyond depressing how long ago i first saw that demonstation. The industry should be ashamed.

 

[Flabagast]

I got a PS5 pro to try out some games since Bestbuy had it stock and a youtuber i like said he was going to return his. Figured what the hell, i know I can return it within 14 days and get a full refund.

TLDR; Not impressed. $700 for a 25-35% more powerful console isn't worth it. Maybe if it performed like the gpu specs and offered 67% more performance then sure. Bestbuy lets you return opened items within 14 days and during holiday season, they are extending the return period till January 31st so if you really want to try it, just try it for a few weeks then return it. this thing is going back as soon as I try out demon souls, ratchet and ff7 rebirth. Not worth $700. hell, not even worth $399. I expected better than 30% from cerny. DO NOT get this from a place that doesnt accept opened returns. There is a good chance you wont notice any difference.

Tried 3 games.

HFW - Looks amazing. They must have improved graphics in the fidelity mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they have enabled better AO, and shadows. Now its performance mode feels great but i can definitely say its not as sharp as fidelity.

Spiderman 2- this one just hurts. PSSR in performance mode has the same shimmering as the OG ps5 performance. Overall image quality is fine if you are not flying at fast speeds, but the moment you do the shimmering begins. I don't even think its running at 1440p internal resolution. this must be pssr 4k performance or 1080p internal resolution just like the base ps5.

The new RT effects are good. especially the distant shadows. I really like the skyline which already looked great but now they don't stand out and feel grounded if that makes any sense. Honestly, i think Horizon FW could really use these because a lot of the pop-in is shadow related.

TLOU2 - This is the one game that delivers on the Cerny pitch. great 4k pssr quality image. looks identical to native 4k. maybe a little better.

But it's the performance mode of the original game that explains all the compromises in Spiderman 2. My og ps5 runs the same section at 85 fps, ps5 pro? 105 fps. that's a mere 23% upgrade. it should easily be running at 120 fps locked. the only time it runs at a locked 120 fps is when the base ps5 would run at 95 fps. Turning on PSSR which renders at the same internal resolution gets us 78 fps. that means it cost us 34% just to use PSSR despite running at the same internal resolution.

And there in lies the problem. You have around 30% more GPU but PSSR is expensive so you have to settle for fewer RT effects at 60 fps at lower resolutions.

I wonder if GG didn't add RT shadows here because that would mean dropping to 1080p which would add shimmering like it does in Spiderman 2. ugh.

I bet the price of a PS5Pro that you won’t return it in the end. Will gladly ask you in a few weeks for your damage control

 

[Bojji]

I bet the price of a PS5Pro that you won’t return it in the end. Will gladly ask you in a few weeks for your damage control

Is Sony releasing some new games this week?

 

[adamsapple]

I got a PS5 pro to try out some games since Bestbuy had it stock and a youtuber i like said he was going to return his. Figured what the hell, i know I can return it within 14 days and get a full refund.

TLDR; Not impressed. $700 for a 25-35% more powerful console isn't worth it. Maybe if it performed like the gpu specs and offered 67% more performance then sure. Bestbuy lets you return opened items within 14 days and during holiday season, they are extending the return period till January 31st so if you really want to try it, just try it for a few weeks then return it. this thing is going back as soon as I try out demon souls, ratchet and ff7 rebirth. Not worth $700. hell, not even worth $399. I expected better than 30% from cerny. DO NOT get this from a place that doesnt accept opened returns. There is a good chance you wont notice any difference.

My take is that when I see people making comments like "Oh I'm glad I wanted 2, 3 years to play xyz game on the Pro", if someone waited that long, they might as well wait a few more years for the PS6, which will naturally come with PS5 Pro equivalent BC.

The price point is almost double that of what the PS5 DE launched but the returns are diminishing. It might be the best version of the PS5 in the market, but it is still a version of the PS5. Not a new generation. So it doesn't warrant a purchase at that price IMO.

 

[hlm666]

They add some components of it but it's really sad that they don't implement full rtgi solution, John called their rt gi implementation screen space Gi, I doing quick search and found out that unity have same tech in the article

you can do it with reshade, any of those RT reshades are normally using screen space.

 

[GymWolf]

I got a PS5 pro to try out some games since Bestbuy had it stock and a youtuber i like said he was going to return his. Figured what the hell, i know I can return it within 14 days and get a full refund.

TLDR; Not impressed. $700 for a 25-35% more powerful console isn't worth it. Maybe if it performed like the gpu specs and offered 67% more performance then sure. Bestbuy lets you return opened items within 14 days and during holiday season, they are extending the return period till January 31st so if you really want to try it, just try it for a few weeks then return it. this thing is going back as soon as I try out demon souls, ratchet and ff7 rebirth. Not worth $700. hell, not even worth $399. I expected better than 30% from cerny. DO NOT get this from a place that doesnt accept opened returns. There is a good chance you wont notice any difference.

Tried 3 games.

HFW - Looks amazing. They must have improved graphics in the fidelity mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they have enabled better AO, and shadows. Now its performance mode feels great but i can definitely say its not as sharp as fidelity.

Spiderman 2- this one just hurts. PSSR in performance mode has the same shimmering as the OG ps5 performance. Overall image quality is fine if you are not flying at fast speeds, but the moment you do the shimmering begins. I don't even think its running at 1440p internal resolution. this must be pssr 4k performance or 1080p internal resolution just like the base ps5.

The new RT effects are good. especially the distant shadows. I really like the skyline which already looked great but now they don't stand out and feel grounded if that makes any sense. Honestly, i think Horizon FW could really use these because a lot of the pop-in is shadow related.

TLOU2 - This is the one game that delivers on the Cerny pitch. great 4k pssr quality image. looks identical to native 4k. maybe a little better.

But it's the performance mode of the original game that explains all the compromises in Spiderman 2. My og ps5 runs the same section at 85 fps, ps5 pro? 105 fps. that's a mere 23% upgrade. it should easily be running at 120 fps locked. the only time it runs at a locked 120 fps is when the base ps5 would run at 95 fps. Turning on PSSR which renders at the same internal resolution gets us 78 fps. that means it cost us 34% just to use PSSR despite running at the same internal resolution.

And there in lies the problem. You have around 30% more GPU but PSSR is expensive so you have to settle for fewer RT effects at 60 fps at lower resolutions.

I wonder if GG didn't add RT shadows here because that would mean dropping to 1080p which would add shimmering like it does in Spiderman 2. ugh.

Jesus dude at least try to lie to make me feel better about my purchase

Your prediction for how gta6 is gonna run on pro?

 

[SimTourist]

700$ for 15% better performance on crossgen ps4 looking games, come on now. It's a joke at this point and Sony is laughing all the way to the bank, nothing new is coming out, hell nothing is even being announced. Next on the menu Horizon HFW remake, TLOU 2 remake, GOW 2018 remake, etc. Desperate times indeed. 4 years into the generation and there's maybe 5 nextgen games total if not less.

 

[SlimySnake]

Jesus dude at least try to lie to make me feel better about my purchase

Your prediction for how gta6 is gonna run on pro?

Seeing as how the trailer ran at 4k fsr quality, i think it will run at 4k pssr quality with maybe higher settings. not much you can do with 30% extra power. Maybe they up the rt settings a bit like insomniac did?

I do think the base PS5 will come with a 1440p fsr performance mode with an internal 720p resolution. Maybe they are able to 1440p pssr balanced with an 850p internal resolution on the Pro.

700$ for 15% better performance on crossgen ps4 looking games, come on now. It's a joke at this point and Sony is laughing all the way to the bank, nothing new is coming out, hell nothing is even being announced. Next on the menu Horizon HFW remake, TLOU 2 remake, GOW 2018 remake, etc. Desperate times indeed. 4 years into the generation and there's maybe 5 nextgen games total if not less.

25-30%, not 15%.

they announced GoT 2 last month for 2025. And Death Stranding 2 is also coming out next year. Maybe venom. then wolverine in 2026 along with several other games that are due from Bluepoint, GG, SSM, Housemarque and ND to end out the generation. Their output going forward should be consistent. It's that the hardware is just shit and shouldve been canned as soon as they realized that a 67% bigger gpu could only get them 30% more performance. Either that or they shouldve added more cache like AMD did or increased the clocks. It's arguably the worst product the playstation group has ever made. And this is coming from someone who adores the vita and the PS portal which has its own flaws but is still a fairly decent piece of hardware. The Pro is worse than even the xsx in terms of poor engineering by so-called professionals.

Also, they are not laughing all the way to the bank. their sales are down. not just year over year but also gen over gen. PS5 Pro will flop. I shouldnt have been able to just buy it from bestbuy. Even the PS5 Portal was sold out for months. The 9800x3d came out last week and sold out within minutes. And thats a $500 cpu. their pc ports are flopping left and right. their gaas push is in tatters. their ceo is restructuring their business after laying off a 1000 people earlier this year. they did coast early in the gen, and are now getting their comeuppance. You hate to see the company you love fail, but im also glad to see the market tell them they fucked up. this might be a lost generation but i hope they learn the right lessons going forward.

 

[Bojji]

Seeing as how the trailer ran at 4k fsr quality, i think it will run at 4k pssr quality with maybe higher settings. not much you can do with 30% extra power. Maybe they up the rt settings a bit like insomniac did?

I do think the base PS5 will come with a 1440p fsr performance mode with an internal 720p resolution. Maybe they are able to 1440p pssr balanced with an 850p internal resolution on the Pro.


25-30%, not 15%.

they announced GoT 2 last month for 2025. And Death Stranding 2 is also coming out next year. Maybe venom. then wolverine in 2026 along with several other games that are due from Bluepoint, GG, SSM, Housemarque and ND to end out the generation. Their output going forward should be consistent. It's that the hardware is just shit and shouldve been canned as soon as they realized that a 67% bigger gpu could only get them 30% more performance. Either that or they shouldve added more cache like AMD did or increased the clocks. It's arguably the worst product the playstation group has ever made. And this is coming from someone who adores the vita and the PS portal which has its own flaws but is still a fairly decent piece of hardware. The Pro is worse than even the xsx in terms of poor engineering by so-called professionals.

Also, they are not laughing all the way to the bank. their sales are down. not just year over year but also gen over gen. PS5 Pro will flop. I shouldnt have been able to just buy it from bestbuy. Even the PS5 Portal was sold out for months. The 9800x3d came out last week and sold out within minutes. And thats a $500 cpu. their pc ports are flopping left and right. their gaas push is in tatters. their ceo is restructuring their business after laying off a 1000 people earlier this year. they did coast early in the gen, and are now getting their comeuppance. You hate to see the company you love fail, but im also glad to see the market tell them they fucked up. this might be a lost generation but i hope they learn the right lessons going forward.

You mean Cerny can make hardware with not so great performance? How is that possible?! He is god!

This machine is memory bandwidth limited just like PS4 pro, same mistake 2x in the row. I bet Cerny is not happy with it, but Sony are cheap bastards and made him do it with the lowest possible cost.

High speed gddr6 or infinity cache would make it perform closer to theoretical limits.

 

[SimTourist]

Seeing as how the trailer ran at 4k fsr quality, i think it will run at 4k pssr quality with maybe higher settings. not much you can do with 30% extra power. Maybe they up the rt settings a bit like insomniac did?

I do think the base PS5 will come with a 1440p fsr performance mode with an internal 720p resolution. Maybe they are able to 1440p pssr balanced with an 850p internal resolution on the Pro.


25-30%, not 15%.

they announced GoT 2 last month for 2025. And Death Stranding 2 is also coming out next year. Maybe venom. then wolverine in 2026 along with several other games that are due from Bluepoint, GG, SSM, Housemarque and ND to end out the generation. Their output going forward should be consistent. It's that the hardware is just shit and shouldve been canned as soon as they realized that a 67% bigger gpu could only get them 30% more performance. Either that or they shouldve added more cache like AMD did or increased the clocks. It's arguably the worst product the playstation group has ever made. And this is coming from someone who adores the vita and the PS portal which has its own flaws but is still a fairly decent piece of hardware. The Pro is worse than even the xsx in terms of poor engineering by so-called professionals.

Also, they are not laughing all the way to the bank. their sales are down. not just year over year but also gen over gen. PS5 Pro will flop. I shouldnt have been able to just buy it from bestbuy. Even the PS5 Portal was sold out for months. The 9800x3d came out last week and sold out within minutes. And thats a $500 cpu. their pc ports are flopping left and right. their gaas push is in tatters. their ceo is restructuring their business after laying off a 1000 people earlier this year. they did coast early in the gen, and are now getting their comeuppance. You hate to see the company you love fail, but im also glad to see the market tell them they fucked up. this might be a lost generation but i hope they learn the right lessons going forward.

Okay, 30%, that's a barely noticeable boost. PS4 Pro was twice as powerful as the PS4, Xbox One X was 5 times as powerful as the Xone, thats 500% boost. 30% is a joke anyway you look at it.

 

[SlimySnake]

You mean Cerny can make hardware with not so great performance? How is that possible?! He is god!

This machine is memory bandwidth limited just like PS4 pro, same mistake 2x in the row. I bet Cerny is not happy with it, but Sony are cheap bastards and made him do it with the lowest possible cost.

High speed gddr6 or infinity cache would make it perform closer to theoretical limits.

The thing is they charged $700 without the disc drive or 800 pounds for it. Thats a thousand bucks right there after the conversion rate. They had to have had a bigger BOM. hence the 66% bigger chip. So Sony did give Cerny a bigger budget and he blew it. plain and simple.

He might as well have taken a 40 CU 6700xt and pushed the clocks high enough to get a 30% boost. The chip wouldve been 50% cheaper and performed the same. It's simply poor from an engineering design standpoint.

 

[hlm666]

You mean Cerny can make hardware with not so great performance? How is that possible?! He is god!

This machine is memory bandwidth limited just like PS4 pro, same mistake 2x in the row. I bet Cerny is not happy with it, but Sony are cheap bastards and made him do it with the lowest possible cost.

High speed gddr6 or infinity cache would make it perform closer to theoretical limits.

Maybe there is some kind of technical reason why there has been no infinity cache/ 3dvcache in the console socs, they are only just sorting out the vcache on multi ccu cpus. Maybe a gpu and cpu using the cache idea still has some issues? Either that or it's too expensive?

 

[Senua]

I got a PS5 pro to try out some games since Bestbuy had it stock and a youtuber i like said he was going to return his. Figured what the hell, i know I can return it within 14 days and get a full refund.

TLDR; Not impressed. $700 for a 25-35% more powerful console isn't worth it. Maybe if it performed like the gpu specs and offered 67% more performance then sure. Bestbuy lets you return opened items within 14 days and during holiday season, they are extending the return period till January 31st so if you really want to try it, just try it for a few weeks then return it. this thing is going back as soon as I try out demon souls, ratchet and ff7 rebirth. Not worth $700. hell, not even worth $399. I expected better than 30% from cerny. DO NOT get this from a place that doesnt accept opened returns. There is a good chance you wont notice any difference.

Tried 3 games.

HFW - Looks amazing. They must have improved graphics in the fidelity mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they have enabled better AO, and shadows. Now its performance mode feels great but i can definitely say its not as sharp as fidelity.

Spiderman 2- this one just hurts. PSSR in performance mode has the same shimmering as the OG ps5 performance. Overall image quality is fine if you are not flying at fast speeds, but the moment you do the shimmering begins. I don't even think its running at 1440p internal resolution. this must be pssr 4k performance or 1080p internal resolution just like the base ps5.

The new RT effects are good. especially the distant shadows. I really like the skyline which already looked great but now they don't stand out and feel grounded if that makes any sense. Honestly, i think Horizon FW could really use these because a lot of the pop-in is shadow related.

TLOU2 - This is the one game that delivers on the Cerny pitch. great 4k pssr quality image. looks identical to native 4k. maybe a little better.

But it's the performance mode of the original game that explains all the compromises in Spiderman 2. My og ps5 runs the same section at 85 fps, ps5 pro? 105 fps. that's a mere 23% upgrade. it should easily be running at 120 fps locked. the only time it runs at a locked 120 fps is when the base ps5 would run at 95 fps. Turning on PSSR which renders at the same internal resolution gets us 78 fps. that means it cost us 34% just to use PSSR despite running at the same internal resolution.

And there in lies the problem. You have around 30% more GPU but PSSR is expensive so you have to settle for fewer RT effects at 60 fps at lower resolutions.

I wonder if GG didn't add RT shadows here because that would mean dropping to 1080p which would add shimmering like it does in Spiderman 2. ugh.

You think you'd feel any differently if you didn't have a 3080 equipped PC and have been used to that level of fidelity for a good long while? PS5 only users seem to be gushing over it. But new hardware always has it's hype period that soon fades a little

 

[Bojji]

The thing is they charged $700 without the disc drive or 800 pounds for it. Thats a thousand bucks right there after the conversion rate. They had to have had a bigger BOM. hence the 66% bigger chip. So Sony did give Cerny a bigger budget and he blew it. plain and simple.

He might as well have taken a 40 CU 6700xt and pushed the clocks high enough to get a 30% boost. The chip wouldve been 50% cheaper and performed the same. It's simply poor from an engineering design standpoint.

You cant make that match with base PS5 - base console was sold at loss for first moths, like most previous sony consoles. This time to me it looks more like apple/Nintendo style - to make the most money possible on hardware.

So cost of making Pro is for sure lower than 700$, and they make much more in Europe and elsewhere than in US on it.

If they went with cutting edge model they could have made better console for the same price.

Maybe there is some kind of technical reason why there has been no infinity cache/ 3dvcache in the console socs, they are only just sorting out the vcache on multi ccu cpus. Maybe a gpu and cpu using the cache idea still has some issues? Either that or it's too expensive?

DF says that cache uses too much of die space to make sense on consoles when die space is the most crucial. Higher speed memory is probably only logical choice here.

 

[SlimySnake]

You think you'd feel any differently if you didn't have a 3080 equipped PC and have been used to that level of fidelity for a good long while? PS5 only users seem to be gushing over it. But new hardware always has it's hype period that soon fades a little

Maybe. But I think it has more to do with me playing most PS5 games in their native 4k modes anyway. So i was already getting pristine IQ. I was hoping that i would get the native 4k fidelity mode at 60 fps and that is not something this thing can offer due to the meager 30% gpu upgrade.

DF said that the Spiderman 2 fidelity mode can now run at 60 fps with all the new RT features if you use VRR and an unlocked framerate with no hit to resolution. False. it's clearly all the way down to 1440p from native 4k. It has the same shimmering and other IQ issues tied to 1440p image I remember from the 40 fps mode which I skipped back at launch because it just looked worse. They couldnt use PSSR on this mode because again, they dont have the GPU available. The Performance mode uses PSSR but from 1080p and disables all but one RT mode which runs at medium setting so I am faced with the same choices I did with the base PS5.

it does work for last gen games like TLOU2 and Horizon FW, but any true next gen game that pushes the gpu is going to be the same. So if people are waiting for GoT2, GTA6, Marvel's 1943, AC Shadows and Death Stranding 2 to run at 60 fps in their fidelity modes then they are in for a rude awakening. It will be like Dragon Age, Alan Wake 2, and AC Shadows. Running performance mode at 864p internal resolution reconstructed to 1440p. My 3080 is currently running dragon age at 4k dlss balanced or 1296p internal resolution. thats 2.5x more pixels than what you are getting on the Pro. Simply inexcusable.

 

[GymWolf]

Maybe. But I think it has more to do with me playing most PS5 games in their native 4k modes anyway. So i was already getting pristine IQ. I was hoping that i would get the native 4k fidelity mode at 60 fps and that is not something this thing can offer due to the meager 30% gpu upgrade.

DF said that the Spiderman 2 fidelity mode can now run at 60 fps with all the new RT features if you use VRR and an unlocked framerate with no hit to resolution. False. it's clearly all the way down to 1440p from native 4k. It has the same shimmering and other IQ issues tied to 1440p image I remember from the 40 fps mode which I skipped back at launch because it just looked worse. They couldnt use PSSR on this mode because again, they dont have the GPU available. The Performance mode uses PSSR but from 1080p and disables all but one RT mode which runs at medium setting so I am faced with the same choices I did with the base PS5.

it does work for last gen games like TLOU2 and Horizon FW, but any true next gen game that pushes the gpu is going to be the same. So if people are waiting for GoT2, GTA6, Marvel's 1943, AC Shadows and Death Stranding 2 to run at 60 fps in their fidelity modes then they are in for a rude awakening. It will be like Dragon Age, Alan Wake 2, and AC Shadows. Running performance mode at 864p internal resolution reconstructed to 1440p. My 3080 is currently running dragon age at 4k dlss balanced or 1296p internal resolution. thats 2.5x more pixels than what you are getting on the Pro. Simply inexcusable.

You think that at least the sony first parties are gonna be better because sony is gonna force them to make the best pro modes humanly possible?

Shit dude, did i wasted my money?

 

[SlimySnake]

You think that at least the sony first parties are gonna be better because sony is gonna force them to make the best pro modes humanly possible?

Shit dude, did i wasted my money?

Who knows? Why havent you received yours yet?

 

[hinch7]

I got a PS5 pro to try out some games since Bestbuy had it stock and a youtuber i like said he was going to return his. Figured what the hell, i know I can return it within 14 days and get a full refund.

TLDR; Not impressed. $700 for a 25-35% more powerful console isn't worth it. Maybe if it performed like the gpu specs and offered 67% more performance then sure. Bestbuy lets you return opened items within 14 days and during holiday season, they are extending the return period till January 31st so if you really want to try it, just try it for a few weeks then return it. this thing is going back as soon as I try out demon souls, ratchet and ff7 rebirth. Not worth $700. hell, not even worth $399. I expected better than 30% from cerny. DO NOT get this from a place that doesnt accept opened returns. There is a good chance you wont notice any difference.

Tried 3 games.

HFW - Looks amazing. They must have improved graphics in the fidelity mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they have enabled better AO, and shadows. Now its performance mode feels great but i can definitely say its not as sharp as fidelity.

Spiderman 2- this one just hurts. PSSR in performance mode has the same shimmering as the OG ps5 performance. Overall image quality is fine if you are not flying at fast speeds, but the moment you do the shimmering begins. I don't even think its running at 1440p internal resolution. this must be pssr 4k performance or 1080p internal resolution just like the base ps5.

The new RT effects are good. especially the distant shadows. I really like the skyline which already looked great but now they don't stand out and feel grounded if that makes any sense. Honestly, i think Horizon FW could really use these because a lot of the pop-in is shadow related.

TLOU2 - This is the one game that delivers on the Cerny pitch. great 4k pssr quality image. looks identical to native 4k. maybe a little better.

But it's the performance mode of the original game that explains all the compromises in Spiderman 2. My og ps5 runs the same section at 85 fps, ps5 pro? 105 fps. that's a mere 23% upgrade. it should easily be running at 120 fps locked. the only time it runs at a locked 120 fps is when the base ps5 would run at 95 fps. Turning on PSSR which renders at the same internal resolution gets us 78 fps. that means it cost us 34% just to use PSSR despite running at the same internal resolution.

And there in lies the problem. You have around 30% more GPU but PSSR is expensive so you have to settle for fewer RT effects at 60 fps at lower resolutions.

I wonder if GG didn't add RT shadows here because that would mean dropping to 1080p which would add shimmering like it does in Spiderman 2. ugh.

Good write up.

For the performance I think it may come down the system being somewhat bandwidth starved. RDNA scales well with more memory bandwidth and without the large L3 cache; as in with their discrete GPU's, performance won't scale as linearly as one would expect. Then there's the lowly Zen 2 cores that it has to work with.

To be fair they have to keep costs down to make it marketable. But I'm not at all that impressed with it, outside PSSR. Even the RT peformance is kind of meh, granted most developers will need to learn how to get the most out of the machine and by that time PS6 will be on the horizon. I guess the Pro makes for a good proof of concept for the next generation machine and games.

 

[GymWolf]

Who knows? Why havent you received yours yet?

I didn't had time to pick mine from the gs between job and other stuff, and even if i pick mine, i don't give a fuck about how old games run, as you say, they are the only games when this stupid thing can show some decent improvements, i want to see how it fair with actual nextgen games.

So even if i pick mine, i have literally nothing to play to cheer me up.

I still have to pass all the ps5 saves in the usb, reset the console and pack it up

 

[GymWolf]

Is there any actual nextgen game, you know your wukong, your avatar, your sh2 (definitely not your sp2 or remilk part 2 or dd2 or fucking hogwarts) that run MUCH better on pro?

Like, are 3 years crossgen horizon, cheap barely better looking than tlou2 remake and remilk VII the best examples of pro upgrade??

 

[SlimySnake]

Is there any actual nextgen game, you know your wukong, your avatar, your sh2 (definitely not your sp2 or remilk part 2 or dd2 or fucking hogwarts) that run MUCH better on pro?

Like, are 3 years crossgen horizon, cheap barely better looking than tlou2 remake and remilk VII the best examples of pro upgrade??

Wukong didnt get a pro patch, Space Marine didnt either and SH2's pro patch is broken.

We know AC shadows runs at 864p in the 60 fps mode on the pro. Outlaws did get a pro patch but reddit says it sucks.

 

[GymWolf]

Wukong didnt get a pro patch, Space Marine didnt either and SH2's pro patch is broken.

We know AC shadows runs at 864p in the 60 fps mode on the pro. Outlaws did get a pro patch but reddit says it sucks.

I consider sm2 and shadows in the same bracket of sp2, probably not possible on last gen, hardly impressive as nextgen only.

So the answer is...no??

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Next on the menu Horizon HFW remake, TLOU 2 remake, GOW 2018 remake, etc. Desperate times indeed.

LOL!