Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

I wouldnt say they have ignored RTGI. plenty of games have it. And if they dont, they use software RT. Starfield, Forza, KCD2, every UE5 software lumen game all use realtime GI.

In fact, i cant think of a single AAA MS game that doesnt use RTGI or realtime software based GI.

It's only Sony and now Nintendo first party that refuses to use RTGI or even realtime GI going instead of baked lighting setups that look like garbage in 2025.


Nope. tried it again a few months ago and while the gameplay kind grew on me, the stop and start nature of the levels completely killed the pacing and i never went back to it. graphics wise its fairly dated on regular RT. I never tried Path tracing because my 10 gb gpu couldnt run it. i might try it now that i have a 5080 but if you need $1500 gpu just to run a game then eh. I really dislike the RT solutions of both Doom and Indy because they came at the expense of better material quality. UE5 is shat on by everyone here for being unoptimized but at least nanite and lumen can co-exist whereas the RTGI was so expensive in both games that they literally couldnt go with high quality assets and indy especially was incredibly vram bound causing me to settle for medium texture streaming which caused constant pop-in.
Weird that the first party studios don't use the next gen features of the PS5 almost 5 years into the generation...Sony should have infinite geometry, RTGI and custom engines tailored to the PS5. First party studio games should look the best of any dev available tbh. Maybe Sony will deliver closer to PS6 launch...
 
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Just wanted to compile all games that are releasing with either RTGI or Software based GI like Lumen.

- Crimson Desert
- Borderlands (UE5)
- Outerworlds (UE5)
- Arc Raiders (custom engine)
- RE9 (RE engine)
- Pragmata (RE Engine)
- GTA6 (RAGE)
- Far Cry 7 (snowdrop)
- Splinter Cell (snowdrop)
- Halo (UE5)
- Gears (UE5)
- Ghost Recon (UE5)
- Wolverine (Realtime GI mentioned in leaked docs)
- Kingsmakers (custom UE5 realtime GI)


most developers have embraced realtime GI this gen.

Correction: Most talented developers who arent lazy.
 
Weird that the first party studios don't use the next gen features of the PS5 almost 5 years into the generation...Sony should have infinite geometry, RTGI and custom engines tailored to the PS5. First party studio games should look the best of any dev available tbh. Maybe Sony will deliver closer to PS6 launch...
I feel the same way, and I feel like nothing will change with PS6 - the way this generation has gone feels like the death knell of the platform. Devs are shipping games that aren't even optimized for THEIR OWN engine let alone the platform they're shipping on.

The way that cost for developing these things is becoming untenable seems to indicate why.

PS6 might have some showcase launch titles but I expect up-rezzed PS5 games for years on the PS6, which doesn't interest me at all.
 
I feel the same way, and I feel like nothing will change with PS6 - the way this generation has gone feels like the death knell of the platform. Devs are shipping games that aren't even optimized for THEIR OWN engine let alone the platform they're shipping on.

The way that cost for developing these things is becoming untenable seems to indicate why.

PS6 might have some showcase launch titles but I expect up-rezzed PS5 games for years on the PS6, which doesn't interest me at all.
If you look at the upcoming Sony slate, you have Intergallactic PS6 remaster, Cory's new IP remaster (Which maybe cancelled any day now seeing as how they have gone 8 years without showing anything), Horizon 3 cross gen, and thats it.

But there is nothing really thats next gen only or even PS5 related. Bend and Bluepoint wasted the last 5 years on a gaas game that was just cancelled. Sucker Punch and Kojima just released a couple of last gen games this year. They are probably 2030 at the latest just like Bend and Bluepoint. And well, thats it. There is no one else left.

And because they are so far behind the curve, their first RT games will feel like 2022 titles. Bloated, buggy, and cross gen-ish. Dont expect much from sony even in 2030.
 
It would be more expensive on a same gen basis like Ampere at console launch but we're talking about a company that spent how many $B for acquiring studios? I can't imagine having a huge hardware advantage wouldn't be off the table.

I guess they didn't know also back then how fucking good DLSS would become. They had maybe DLSS 1 as reference from Turing and said "naw".
Studios live on outside of their hardware, making them worth the extra investment. Hardware is tougher to justify like that - it's only as good as it needs to be to sell across its lifetime at mass market console prices. Matching PlayStation has been "good enough" since the Xbone - it's why the XSX|S even have an SSD in them. Having a real hardware advantage but also having a USD$150 price increase over your competitor would've be a tough sell internally, back when they even cared about hardware installations.

If memory serves, Microsoft actually had some internal musings around AI upscaling and trying to get it into the XSX|S consoles, because they knew it was good. This was shut down internally, though, I can't recall why.
 
If you look at the upcoming Sony slate, you have Intergallactic PS6 remaster, Cory's new IP remaster (Which maybe cancelled any day now seeing as how they have gone 8 years without showing anything), Horizon 3 cross gen, and thats it.

But there is nothing really thats next gen only or even PS5 related. Bend and Bluepoint wasted the last 5 years on a gaas game that was just cancelled. Sucker Punch and Kojima just released a couple of last gen games this year. They are probably 2030 at the latest just like Bend and Bluepoint. And well, thats it. There is no one else left.

And because they are so far behind the curve, their first RT games will feel like 2022 titles. Bloated, buggy, and cross gen-ish. Dont expect much from sony even in 2030.
Yeah, this is basically where I'm at. The clincher though is the fact that younger gamers care less and less about these tentpole AAA experiences, so I think we're just going to start seeing less of them.

Sony did their damnedest to get ahead of the curve with some of the failed gaas shit but they really need to figure something out that the skibidi's want to play or shit is just gonna get worse for us "connoisseurs" (lol)
 
I feel the same way, and I feel like nothing will change with PS6 - the way this generation has gone feels like the death knell of the platform. Devs are shipping games that aren't even optimized for THEIR OWN engine let alone the platform they're shipping on.

The way that cost for developing these things is becoming untenable seems to indicate why.

PS6 might have some showcase launch titles but I expect up-rezzed PS5 games for years on the PS6, which doesn't interest me at all.
Greed and laziness is the number 1 issue IMO. The worlds greed levels are off the charts, the people who control the money are clamping down hard. Sony got greedy and cocky and just said "release the bare minimum". After seeing TLOU 2 on PS4, I know the PS5 can deliver something mind blowing.
 
Greed and laziness is the number 1 issue IMO. The worlds greed levels are off the charts, the people who control the money are clamping down hard. Sony got greedy and cocky and just said "release the bare minimum". After seeing TLOU 2 on PS4, I know the PS5 can deliver something mind blowing.

100%
 
Just wanted to compile all games that are releasing with either RTGI or Software based GI like Lumen.

- Crimson Desert
- Borderlands (UE5)
- Outerworlds (UE5)
- Arc Raiders (custom engine)
- RE9 (RE engine)
- Pragmata (RE Engine)
- GTA6 (RAGE)
- Far Cry 7 (snowdrop)
- Splinter Cell (snowdrop)
- Halo (UE5)
- Gears (UE5)
- Ghost Recon (UE5)
- Wolverine (Realtime GI mentioned in leaked docs)
- Kingsmakers (custom UE5 realtime GI)


most developers have embraced realtime GI this gen.

Correction: Most talented developers who arent lazy.
What about first light ?
 
Just wanted to compile all games that are releasing with either RTGI or Software based GI like Lumen.

- Crimson Desert
- Borderlands (UE5)
- Outerworlds (UE5)
- Arc Raiders (custom engine)
- RE9 (RE engine)
- Pragmata (RE Engine)
- GTA6 (RAGE)
- Far Cry 7 (snowdrop)
- Splinter Cell (snowdrop)
- Halo (UE5)
- Gears (UE5)
- Ghost Recon (UE5)
- Wolverine (Realtime GI mentioned in leaked docs)
- Kingsmakers (custom UE5 realtime GI)


most developers have embraced realtime GI this gen.

Correction: Most talented developers who arent lazy.
Add this to the list
GBCAKYxrF4YDmNsX.jpg
 
Nvidia's power

AMD GPUs suck at RT (which this game uses extensively) + DLSS that upscales amazingly well even at very low resolutions

AMD sucks, but Nvidia isnt interested on consoles. So we are stuck with the 2nd best.

New consoles using Nvidia, taking advantage of DLSS + better RT performance would be amazing.
Kinda ironic that a tablet has better tech than the home consoles...

But hey, fucking cerny spoke 1 hour about how magical the ssd was...fuck that dude :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
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Did Red Dead 2 suffer any downgrades compared to the marketing footage?
I remember GTA 5 suffering a downgrade compared to the reveal trailer but nothing else.
For Red Dead 2 I don't remember any downgrades at all.
And GTA 6 is looking even more insane because trailer 2 looks better than trailer 1.
 
We never saw any official gameplay from GTA6. I think it's not reasonable to expect density seen on screenshots above...
 
And?

We do that for every game so gta doesn't get a free pass.
Right but i think there is way too much hype and pressure on the game to save the industry from turning into live service cesspit of roblox, fortnite and cod even though the online component by far will be its biggest attraction for most people
 
Right but i think there is way too much hype and pressure on the game to save the industry from turning into live service cesspit of roblox, fortnite and cod even though the online component by far will be its biggest attraction for most people
I doubt hardcore gamers are waiting for gta6 to save gaming...

Big hope is for the graphic\interactions\ai stuff.

Many Hardcores are probably gonna shit on the game like they do with rdr2 or gta5 and i don't expect any groundbreaking gameplay aspect or even close to that.
 
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Did Red Dead 2 suffer any downgrades compared to the marketing footage?
I remember GTA 5 suffering a downgrade compared to the reveal trailer but nothing else.
For Red Dead 2 I don't remember any downgrades at all.
To me rdr2 trailer 1 seems have better lighting and shader quality in couple of shots comparing to trailer 2 era and later materials, but totally lackin in other aspects like cloud rendering still looks quite gta5 ish. Same as the lighting itself actually, some are quite impressive to look at, some still feel like a "gta 5 advanced retouched " if you know what I mean. The release version are mostly the same as trailer 2 onwards, consoles seems suffering from ssao downgrade after couple of online "updates" tho
 
These GTA 6 downgrade posts will age badly, just a feeling...
I think it's definitely more probable for the game to not look 1:1 with the trailers to the latest damn pixel than the opposite.

Chance of looking exactly the same during gameplay are basically 0,0000000001%.

I can already hear the excuses "but it looks 90% like the trailer and already better than everything else".

Tlou2 also looked better than most things out there and was downgraded to hell and back compared to the first trailer.

I also expect animations and ai to completely break and glitch and to be far from perfect.

Better be prepared and get a nice surprise than the opposite scenario.
 
There is hero lighting on all these NPC models. It's clearly photoshopped.
screenshots-in-hdr-in-4k-v0-tyr5zccxu7ze1.jpg


The trailers are a different story since they have mostly only shown cutscenes and cutscenes typically look better than gameplay anyway.
Hero light? But they don't look as out of place as aloy that straight look like the white savior mother teresa in horizon, bitch radiate light in horizon :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
There is hero lighting on all these NPC models. It's clearly photoshopped.
screenshots-in-hdr-in-4k-v0-tyr5zccxu7ze1.jpg


The trailers are a different story since they have mostly only shown cutscenes and cutscenes typically look better than gameplay anyway.
Downgrades wouldn't surprise me but this screenshot seems like it's from a cutscene too.
 
Tlou2 also looked better than most things out there and was downgraded to hell and back compared to the first trailer.
Difference between TLOU2 and GTA6 is that they havent shown gameplay yet.

TLOU2 downgrades were all the awesome stuff they showed during the gameplay reveal. the motion matching animations, character models, destruction, and of course the car door bullshit physics. Not to mention the fact that ND admitted that it was all scripted fake bullshit in the making of documentary. what a bunch of frauds.

Rockstar has not shown any gameplay so far. By the time they do show gameplay, it will be too late to downgrade major stuff like animations and character models.
 
Difference between TLOU2 and GTA6 is that they havent shown gameplay yet.

TLOU2 downgrades were all the awesome stuff they showed during the gameplay reveal. the motion matching animations, character models, destruction, and of course the car door bullshit physics. Not to mention the fact that ND admitted that it was all scripted fake bullshit in the making of documentary. what a bunch of frauds.

Rockstar has not shown any gameplay so far. By the time they do show gameplay, it will be too late to downgrade major stuff like animations and character models.

Rockstar has also had a solid history of their games more-or-less meeting their reveal trailers. Whereas Naughty Dog lies through their teeth constantly with their reveals.
 
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Difference between TLOU2 and GTA6 is that they havent shown gameplay yet.

TLOU2 downgrades were all the awesome stuff they showed during the gameplay reveal. the motion matching animations, character models, destruction, and of course the car door bullshit physics. Not to mention the fact that ND admitted that it was all scripted fake bullshit in the making of documentary. what a bunch of frauds.

Rockstar has not shown any gameplay so far. By the time they do show gameplay, it will be too late to downgrade major stuff like animations and character models.
They said that half the trailers are made with ingame footage with a cinematic camera angle so your reasoning doesn't apply here, we are already seeing "gameplay".

The fuckers should have stay silent and left us wonder if that was gameplay or not, but they came out and said it themselves.

I'm gonna judge the fuck out of everything based on the trailers, you can bet on it.

Sure some things can't be judged like gunplay etc. But npcs animations, stuff like water physics and graphic fidelity? You can definitely use the trailer.
 
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Rockstar has also had a solid history of their games more-or-less meeting their reveal trailers. Whereas Naughty Dog lies through their teeth constantly with their reveals.
Depends on what you mean by meeting their reveal trailers, NPC variety and interaction seemed way more dynamic in GTA V's reveal trailer compared to the release version of the game for example.
But graphically speaking Rockstar's record is pretty solid I agree. I'd be very surprised if there are any major downgrades from what we've seen so far.

 
Depends on what you mean by meeting their reveal trailers, NPC variety and interaction seemed way more dynamic in GTA V's reveal trailer compared to the release version of the game for example.
But graphically speaking Rockstar's record is pretty solid I agree. I'd be very surprised if there are any major downgrades from what we've seen so far.


final game also didn't looked nearly as clean.

Is this what people consider the "no-downgrade track record" of rockstar?

Holy shit now i'm really worried :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
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Depends on what you mean by meeting their reveal trailers, NPC variety and interaction seemed way more dynamic in GTA V's reveal trailer compared to the release version of the game for example.
But graphically speaking Rockstar's record is pretty solid I agree. I'd be very surprised if there are any major downgrades from what we've seen so far.



final game also didn't looked nearly as clean.

Is this what people consider the "no-downgrade track record" of rockstar?

Holy shit now i'm really worried :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

Eh, the GTA V at launch looked better than the reveal trailer more often than not:

 
Eh, the GTA V at launch looked better than the reveal trailer more often than not:


More often than not already translate into some downgrade in my book.

People told me not to worry about the game looking exactly the same as the trailers but this definitely doesn't seem the case here.
 
Did Red Dead 2 suffer any downgrades compared to the marketing footage?
I remember GTA 5 suffering a downgrade compared to the reveal trailer but nothing else.
For Red Dead 2 I don't remember any downgrades at all.
And GTA 6 is looking even more insane because trailer 2 looks better than trailer 1.
On console it will be 30fps and some low resolution like always.

As usual best place to play will be a high end PC.
 
Sounds like you're worrying over nothing to me.
Not sure how to respond to that, it seems like you haven't checked in what topic you are, we always talk about stuff that that average player doesn't even notice or care about, nobody is "really worried" or gonna lose any sleep, we are just talking about possible downgrades.
 
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final game also didn't looked nearly as clean.

Is this what people consider the "no-downgrade track record" of rockstar?

Holy shit now i'm really worried :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
I'd argue the final game looked mostly better than the reveal trailer, by the time they showed gameplay, what we saw is pretty much what we got.
But stuff like the homeless NPCs, dude selling the house, the hikers holding hands, stuff like that happening dynamically throughout the open world never made it to the final game which to me it suggests they either faked it for the trailer or downgraded the NPC AI to be able to make the game run on consoles with 512mb of RAM.
This kinda goes in hand with that screenshot from VI with all those NPCs on the boats. Or the shot with the people at the beach from Trailer 1. If that shit can actually happen dynamically during open world exploration, not in cutscenes while also having all that NPC variety and most of them performing different actions then I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

 
I'd argue the final game looked mostly better than the reveal trailer, by the time they showed gameplay, what we saw is pretty much what we got.
But stuff like the homeless NPCs, dude selling the house, the hikers holding hands, stuff like that happening dynamically throughout the open world never made it to the final game which to me it suggests they either faked it for the trailer or downgraded the NPC AI to be able to make the game run on consoles with 512mb of RAM.
This kinda goes in hand with that screenshot from VI with all those NPCs on the boats. Or the shot with the people at the beach from Trailer 1. If that shit can actually happen dynamically during open world exploration, not in cutscenes while also having all that NPC variety and most of them performing different actions then I'll be very pleasantly surprised.


The things is, the microdetails and micro-animations are what separe rockstar ffrom the bunch, if they downgrade that stuff lile they did with gta5 it's not a small thing to me.

I give 2 fucks if they improve stuff that i don't care much about and downgrade what make the game special.

If all those natural looking unique animations for npcs in the beach were fake, i consider that a BIG downgrade and i'm gonna be "pissed" about it.

Like i said, nobody get a free pass in this topic.
 
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I think it's definitely more probable for the game to not look 1:1 with the trailers to the latest damn pixel than the opposite.

Chance of looking exactly the same during gameplay are basically 0,0000000001%.

I can already hear the excuses "but it looks 90% like the trailer and already better than everything else".

Tlou2 also looked better than most things out there and was downgraded to hell and back compared to the first trailer.

I also expect animations and ai to completely break and glitch and to be far from perfect.

Better be prepared and get a nice surprise than the opposite scenario.
TLOU2 was a noticeable downgrade, especially if you saw the E3 2018 trailer. If the ""downgrade"" ends up being just what we saw with GTA 5 (aka non-existent) that's not worth getting worked up over, just nerd shit at that point to me.
 
Not sure how to respond to that, it seems like you haven't checked in what topic you are, we always talk about stuff that that average player doesn't even notice or care about, nobody is "really worried" or gonna lose any sleep, we are just talking about possible downgrades.

I know what thread we're in. What I'm saying is we haven't seen any evidence that suggests we should be concerned about a downgrade, and if anything, we've seen evidence that the final game could look even better than what we've been shown.
 
The things is, the microdetails and micro-animations are what separe rockstar ffrom the bunch, if they downgrade that stuff lile they did with gta5 it's not a small thing to me.

I give 2 fucks if they improve stuff that i don't care much about and downgrade what make the game special.

If all those natural looking unique animations for npcs in the beach were fake, i consider that a BIG downgrade and i'm gonna be "pissed" about it.

Like i said, nobody get a free pass in this topic.
I don't disagree with you, but at the same time we have no idea of what we're looking at yet. For all we know we could be looking at cutscenes and they took advantage of that to make these bullshots.
If this is indeed in the final game but only in cutscenes and in the open world nothing like it can be found can we still consider it a downgrade? Technically it is part of the game.

The only thing we can take mostly for granted in Rockstar's trailers is that graphically speaking in general terms they don't have a track record of making major downgrades to their games, meaning it's probably safe to expect the lighting, reflections, textures and the likes to look identical what we're seeing in the trailers for example. But the micro-details you're speaking about are pretty much fair game, we'll have to wait to see some gameplay.

This said I still think Red Dead Redemption's 2 marketing was very faithful to what we saw in the final version of the game so I'm hopeful they'll keep that up for VI.
 
Edit: meh not worthy to argue until we see the actual gameplay.
Don't worry, I am joking lol. But yeah, like... At that point, the downgrade would be so minimal I doubt even many of us would care. That's the thing. TLOU2 had completely different skin rendering to what was advertised, especially on that axe NPC.
 
I don't disagree with you, but at the same time we have no idea of what we're looking at yet. For all we know we could be looking at cutscenes and they took advantage of that to make these bullshots.
If this is indeed in the final game but only in cutscenes and in the open world nothing like it can be found can we still consider it a downgrade? Technically it is part of the game.

The only thing we can take mostly for granted in Rockstar's trailers is that graphically speaking in general terms they don't have a track record of making major downgrades to their games, meaning it's probably safe to expect the lighting, reflections, textures and the likes to look identical what we're seeing in the trailers for example. But the micro-details you're speaking about are pretty much fair game, we'll have to wait to see some gameplay.

This said I still think Red Dead Redemption's 2 marketing was very faithful to what we saw in the final version of the game so I'm hopeful they'll keep that up for VI.
They said half the trailers are gameplay, they don't get to use the cutscene excuse.

But it is funny how we went from no downgrade to acceptable downgrade to not a major downgrade with this game...

It seems like people is just more eager to make excuse for rockstar than for other people but nobody forced rockstar to show a trailer that look far and beyond any other open world game, they only have themselves to blame for creating huge expectations.
 
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