PdotMichael
Banned
What happened to Hollande?
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Greece votes OXI/No on more Austerity measures
- Thread starter Coriolanus
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What happened to Hollande?
Merkel lap dogs in each of those countries
Coriolanus
Banned
Any mention of "temporary" grexit is most likely put in place to decrease fears and facilitate acceptance. If it goes down for real, it'll most likely stay that way for a very long time. Not like they won't have a perfect example of the horrors of being in the Euro in their recent history to look back at and be horrified.
Anyway, up is left, down is right confirmed if the plan is real.
There's a pretty neutral primer in the OP.
Anyway, up is left, down is right confirmed if the plan is real.
There's a pretty neutral primer in the OP.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I'll be really interested to read books on this crisis in a few years. I'm particularly curious to understand Syriza's thought process.
My bad, so the numbers for 2002:
Inflation 2002: EZ 2.367 % - GR 3.498 %
Business as usual, it seems.
At least, certainly nothing like everything's price being tripled over one night.
There's been a double display of prices in FF/EUR for a year or two before and after changing currency, so that consumers could check by themselves.
There were also people from some state agency checking this on the ground, but I can't remember all the details.
All in all, it didn't prevent some prices to get a meaty increase, but it was rather moderate:
2000 - 1.579 %
2001 - 1.361 %
2002 - 2.301 %
Prices have increased much more after that.
Greece could just do what it's currently doing. Domestically claim a default; remain in the Euro; nationalise the collapsed banks and put capital controls on savings whilst creating new accounts for new cash deposits with no currency controls.
Can the ECB force Greece out in the short term? Or would Greece be applicable for any monetary policy changes taken as a consequence of its own actions?
Can the ECB force Greece out in the short term? Or would Greece be applicable for any monetary policy changes taken as a consequence of its own actions?
you don't eat consumer electronics, so that is a bad exchange, happen the same in portugal, I use to pay 5 escudos(auroun 2,5 cents) for a bubble gun now they cost around 10 cents (20 escudos)
9/10 times things like that are "leaked" is to measure the reaction.
petran79
Banned
A quick hack.
no wonder a loon tried to assasinate him....
More appropriate than you intended thanks to needless defence spending.
Ether_Snake
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That's why this idea is being labeled stupid pretty much everywhere. What's the Euro and EU for then? It's dumb. Today you exit the EZ and come back later, tomorrow you exit the EU and came back later too.
Theonik
Member
That was the case in other countries. But often they changed the prices in the old currency as well.
According to the OECD numbers, average annual wages in Greece were 13,800€ in 2001 and 20,850€ in 2008 (they were back to 18,495€ in 2013, for the curious).
No wonder prices increase a fucking lot when average wages get a 50% boost.
Negotiator
Member
Wages -> 50% boost
Prices (groceries, not electronics) -> 300% boost
Sounds lose-lose to me.
Now I'm jealous.
Can barely get a decent gyros in SF and when you do, you're paying $7-8 USD (6.27-7.17 euro) for it.
Please, flood America with cheap, high quality gyros Greece. Will do my part to buy gyros and save the Greek economy!
Coriolanus
Banned
Doesn't help that nearly all the gyros in the US are done with some half-sheep half-cow/pork pre-formed pink slime popsicle monstrosity.
gutter_trash
Banned
ugh
if people are being squashed by the elite and banks, the people are not going to side with right wing corporatists, people will veer to the left instead
Negotiator
Member
Weimar Republic says hi.
To be fair, the NSDAP was pseudo-leftish in their electioneering and the had many social promises. It was not until they had the power that they turned openly, we just know in hindsight that the party was radical right wing from the get go.
PdotMichael
Banned
The history of the NSDAP and the Nazi Seizure of Power is complex and not comperable to anything in Greece or in other parts of Europe right now or in the feature.
People should stop doing such comparisons here.
People should stop doing such comparisons here.
Upsum Eurogroup so far: Greece asked for more austerity; German Grexit plan non-starter; @tsakalotos cant sign without words on debt (1/2)
(2/3) in other words the exact same situation as for 6 months. But Germans now openly pushing for Grexit, IMF for debt relief, EU paralysed
(3/3) Unless Syriza gives *legitimacy* to its own overthrow, pro-Merkel parties in Greece cannot rule it. This last always forgotten by MSM
http://www.theguardian.com/business...-countrys-fate#block-55a1324ce4b07fc6a121fa9c
(2/3) in other words the exact same situation as for 6 months. But Germans now openly pushing for Grexit, IMF for debt relief, EU paralysed
(3/3) Unless Syriza gives *legitimacy* to its own overthrow, pro-Merkel parties in Greece cannot rule it. This last always forgotten by MSM
http://www.theguardian.com/business...-countrys-fate#block-55a1324ce4b07fc6a121fa9c
Ether_Snake
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So Germany is still trying to cause the Greek government to fall, basically asking it to sack some MPs and all. How silly.
Nothing will work, unless the debt is cut or Greece defaults. This is all drawing out the same inevitability, which really is Grexit.
Nothing will work, unless the debt is cut or Greece defaults. This is all drawing out the same inevitability, which really is Grexit.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Suddenly Kathimerini's "Tsipras expects elections in fall" prediction doesn't seem so off-base...
You'd think so but you'd be wrong. Hard right always wins in a crisis.
For a less extreme example look at the destruction of social democratic parties across europe. Crisis=right wing wins.
https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/619933948840443904
So much for the close French-German coordination over the last couple of months.
petran79
Banned
if you include raise in taxes (for those that paid anyway) boost gets even less
helloresolven
Member
So how much longer of no action until Grexit is actually official?
So the bigger EU economies can suck the shit out of it again...
Greece, get out, stay out and thrive. I love how the spin is this is all Greece's fault.
It isn't. The EU is a shit hole for smaller economies.
I'm sick of Germany and France thinking they can demand wtf they want in the Eurozone. It's about time some proper competition was injected back into the area.
Melon Husk
Member
If anyone should be kicked out of Euro, it should be Germany. I'm not saying this childishly.
Right. Especially France is calling all the shots lately. Don't forget about the other countries that just don't want to support Greece and have, may I say, understandable reasons doing so.
Yay! Let's kick out the Euro's strongest economy. I'm sure that everything would be just fine after that.
Monetary policy across a continent is crazy anyway. The euro is a disaster.
Who?
Gurgelhals
Member
To be precise, it's a monetary union without a fiscal union that is total madness. Who thought that this was a good idea in the first place, anyway? In hindsight, all of it seems like a criminally naive "fair-weather project".
It's like Pastel de Nata but filled with sadness.
And don't trust any German telling you otherwise. They're following their pro-Butterkuchen agenda.
Having strong and weak economies in an economic federation only makes sense if the strong economies are transferring funds to the weaker economies. If they arent, like Germany isnt doing, then they are simply making it harder for the weaker economies by giving them a stronger currency than they should be saddled with.
Germany gets a weaker currency out of this union. Greece and other weaker economies got cheaper loans. Once everyone realized that those weaker economies don't actually deserve cheaper loans, then the negatives of this union far outweighed the benefits for the weaker economies.
Germany leaving really isnt going to solve the fundamental problem of the EU so I doubt it will matter what they do - in terms of the EU that is. Germany's strong economic certainly isnt benefiting other EU nations though.
It totally was, in early 90's they were naive to think that a coin would survive the economic differences of so many countries
Nah it's disgusting.
We got so many great baked goods, this is certainly not one of them.
#OXIotixero
You have an unhealthy obssession with pastel de nata, when you go to lisbon go try the pasteis de belem, it's another level of pastel de nata
Hyperactivity
Banned
Ether_Snake
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They will keep pushing until Greece exits, they just don't want to kick them out themselves, period.
Korrekt.
Nein.
It's the only Portuguese dessert I know. Haven't eaten it in years despite Hamburg's little Portugal.
And Greece doesnt want to leave the EU because for some odd reason a lot of people in Greece don't want to do it. Cowardly politicians on both sides are destroying Greece. I put more blame on Greece since there is a reason beyond simply saving their own skin - meaning that it would probably be a bad precedent to set - kicking out EU members and all.
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