I look forward to Tsipras getting back to revolutionary attitude and another PR spin. Although at this point I feel like he will just accept anything Schäuble will ask.
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Greece votes OXI/No on more Austerity measures
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I look forward to Tsipras getting back to revolutionary attitude and another PR spin. Although at this point I feel like he will just accept anything Schäuble will ask.
Negotiator
Member
Syriza used to be a 3-4% party... just sayin'.
Humiliation and extreme austerity almost always turn people to far right wing parties. At least that's what history has taught us...
Feel like alot of the eurozone has forgotten what happens when hard line austerity is pushed on a populace in Europe.
I wouldn't be surprised if Greece ended up out of the eurozone under a junta in the next decade.
Ether_Snake
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He is very welcomed to play hardball if he wishes to! Do it Schauble, reject the proposal.
Schäuble proposing temporary grexit + humanitarian aid + debt restructuring and greece remaining in the EU.
http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/s...-schlaegt-grexit-auf-zeit-vor_id_4810445.html
http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/s...-schlaegt-grexit-auf-zeit-vor_id_4810445.html
It's happening.
Machspeed007
Member
Negotiator
Member
Temporary Grexit? What is that supposed to mean?
You get out and a few years later you get back in.
Oh, I want to see Tsipras agreeing with the transfer of assets in value of 50 billion. That would be the spin of the century.
I find the second proposal interesting, a Grexit with controlled default, practically.
Greece get's drachma for atleast 5 years, devalues and recovers their economy and can come back to the euro when they are back in shape.
That is kind of what people wanted, grexit and debt restructuring. Shit this has more twist than my local politics and house of cards
Would you look at that, pretty much the exact plan I've been thinking of as the lesser evil here.
The fact that it's not easy to change the currency. And there are associated costs with it. It really is a desperate measure, not something a country can do every day.
Negotiator
Member
That's fucking stupid. It's like taking a divorce and then getting married with the same person once again... it doesn't make any sense.
Germans have to understand that not everyone had an advantageous exchange rate with the euro.
1 EUR = 2 DM (see? easy conversion)
1 EUR = 340.75 old drachmas
Greeks were screwed by an unfair exchange rate back in 2002* and now you're telling me that they're going to repeat the same mistake?!
* For example, products that used to cost 50 drachmas (15 eurocents) were converted overnight to 50 eurocents (170 drachmas) -> 300% price hike.
ClosingADoor
Member
Then 2 DM would have been 340.75 Drachmas back then.
The unfair stuff was the business themselves making everything more expensive, not the exchange rate. Happened in lots of countries.
cebri.one
Member
Remember than some countries have to approve the program in their respective parliaments, even if they reach a deal this weekend is still unsure wether every Eurozone country will accept it.
For example, Finnland is run now by an euroscepctic goverment and most finnish journalist are saying is going to be very hard to approve the new proposal.
https://twitter.com/JarnoHa/status/619892459280199680
For example, Finnland is run now by an euroscepctic goverment and most finnish journalist are saying is going to be very hard to approve the new proposal.
https://twitter.com/JarnoHa/status/619892459280199680
PdotMichael
Banned
Blame the shops I guess.
Because national produced stuff shouldn't have get more expensive. And importing stuff goods should have been cheaper than ever.
Negotiator
Member
Did it also happen in Germany?
Also, what's stopping Portugal, Spain, Italy from following the same route?
Eurozone is going to lose its "prestige"...
petran79
Banned
One reason I stopped frequenting arcades back then
The FDP (liberal party in Germany) has been proposing this for quite some time. Sounds actually rather reasonable to me. Kickstart the economy and come back later. Obviously, that would give the creditors some hope to get more of their credits back...
Negotiator
Member
There's no way to regulate prices in a free market economy (with the exception of basic necessities, such as water).
Frankfurter
Member
Actually, it was 1.95583. I don't see why the rest has anything to do with a an unfair exchange rate. Blame the shops...
Negotiator
Member
According to Der Spiegel, that temporary Grexit proposal originated in a position paper from Germany's ministry of finance that was just published in the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung.
ClosingADoor
Member
Don't know about Germany, but definitely happened in Holland as well. Maybe not as much, but prices were all rounded up.
But that is on the shops, so don't see the point.
Yes. I don't have any big examples, but a freaking smurf chew-thingy cost 10 cent at my local shop after the introduction of the euro. Was 5 Pfennig before! That's a 400% increase.
In fact, this was a rather common complaint right after switching to the Euro.
Store owners used their chance to raise their prices because people were confused anyway. Studies later found that this was mostly just people's perception, though.
Edit: People called the Euro "Teuro", which is a combination of the words for Euro and expensive.
Negotiator
Member
1.95583 is close enough to 2, so you basically have to divide the prices by 2.
If the exchange rate was something like 100-200 old drachmas, the conversion would have been easier...
PdotMichael
Banned
Well, yes.
And looking at the inflation in Greece. The Euro didn't have a big impact in that regard, in fact the inflation was stable and way lower than in the 90s.
When circumstances push citizens into seeing that those parties are in their own best interest to change their shitty existence... they'll act in their interest. Just like the rest of the EU has through the negotiations.
cyberheater
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Theonik
Member
It doesn't really work like that.
This really doesn't show in the numbers:
Inflation 2000: EZ 2.477 % - GR 3.658 %
Inflation 2001: EZ 2.130 % - GR 3.045 %
I remember that France had some strong policy going at the time to prevent merchants from artificially pumping prices up when we've joined Euro. I thought any country joining the new currency was doing the same at the time.
Negotiator
Member
Greece adopted the Euro in 2002. Back in 2007-2008 the inflation was as high as 5% (way higher than ECB's 2% goal).
Theonik
Member
I wonder how they enforced it.
gutter_trash
Banned
uh this is such a wrong post.
when people get angry towards incumbants, they pick to polar opposite of the ones in place
Like when Cuba was under right wing puppet Batista rule, they made a revolution from the opposite spectrum that ushered in communist Castro
After 80 years of Communist rule in USSR, it resulted in the opposite. Now Russia is ruled by a right wing authoritarian
Lol perfect, saved.A quick hack.
Negotiator
Member
Guess what? Golden Dawn is the polar opposite of Syriza.
PdotMichael
Banned
Doesn't look that crazy. And the inflation of >3% was more a result of running a crazy budget deficit and salary increases.
Germany putting greece on Craigslist.
I guess that's what the Greek officials meant by saying it wasn't true. Strange that the report is out there if it's not discussed in this meeting yet. Perhaps intended for tomorrow's meeting instead?
I would trust that the EU would collectively laugh such a proposal into irrelevance. There's more flaws with this supposed plan than I can calculate.
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