Support NeoGAF

[old]

Now i know this is FOX News, but.

JUST IN: IMF asks that Greek PM Tsipras resign. https://twitter.com/FoxBusiness/status/620359663389966336

If this is true, then the worm has truly turned.

They asked for and got the finance minister to resign. Why not ask for more? This truly is a coup.

 

[persongr]

If that's the case, then Greece should announce a migration to an electronic-only New Drachma in a couple of days.

Electronic-only = no tax (VAT) evasion

Greeks are already accustomed to debit cards thanks to the ATM bank run fiasco.

Printing banknotes/coins will take 6 months at least.

I personally am against an electronic-only new currency in Greece - it would be an absolute disaster given the technological illiteracy.

I want also to point out that for quite some time I'm hearing rumours that Russia has already printed new Drachmas, but seems fiction to me.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You'd be better off looking at Euro Stoxx rather than just a general spread.

http://www.investing.com/indices/eu-stocks-50-futures

Pessimism was deepest about two days ago and has recovered slightly, but still very low.

 

[Negotiator]

They asked for and got the finance minister to resign. Why not ask for more? This truly is a coup.

But, but you need guns to make a coup happen! Where are the guns? I see no guns! Everything is fine and dandy and as democratic as always!

 

[ironcreed]

They asked for and got the finance minister to resign. Why not ask for more? This truly is a coup.

 

[burnjanso]

Why would IMF ask Tsipras to resign when he would have resigned anyway. Germany clearly has no interest in negotiating with Tsipras.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I personally am against an electronic-only new currency in Greece - it would be an absolute disaster given the technological illiteracy.

I want also to point out that for quite some time I'm hearing rumours that Russia has already printed new Drachmas, but seems fiction to me.

What?? Why would Russia be printing Drachmas??

Sounds like a conspiracy theory that needs workshopping

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I think this thread needs to cool just a little. Doesn't help anyone if we just start posting random Twitter sources, national newspapers can be bad enough.

 

[jakonovski]

Greece no longer has presses for drachmas, and can't get them because, well, they have no money.

 

[persongr]

What?? Why would Russia be printing Drachmas??

Sounds like a conspiracy theory that needs workshopping

For the same reason their minister of external affairs said he would aid Greece with exports of cheap fuel - strengthening their geopolitical power. Would Greece leave the Eurozone, its position in NATO would also be compromised because of the turmoil. Then it would be a great time for Russia to ally with us, considering also our beef with Turkey.

 

[Nivash]

I personally am against an electronic-only new currency in Greece - it would be an absolute disaster given the technological illiteracy.

I want also to point out that for quite some time I'm hearing rumours that Russia has already printed new Drachmas, but seems fiction to me.

Of course it's fiction considering that

1) They wouldn't have the capability to do it whatsoever

and

2) They would have no reason to do it whatsoever

The very concept of Drachmas being printed anywhere in secret, ready to be distributed at a moments notice is absurd. There's so much more to introducing a new currency than simply printing it. This is just the last myth in the "Russia will save Greece" series. Russia can't save Greece. Russia doesn't want to save Greece. And quite frankly, being "saved" by Russia would be the worst thing that could ever happen to Greece.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Of course it's fiction considering that

1) They wouldn't have the capability to do it whatsoever

and

2) They would have no reason to do it whatsoever

The very concept of Drachmas being printed anywhere in secret, ready to be distributed at a moments notice is absurd. There's so much more to introducing a new currency than simply printing it. This is just the last myth in the "Russia will save Greece" series. Russia can't save Greece. Russia doesn't want to save Greece. And quite frankly, being "saved" by Russia would be the worst thing that could ever happen to Greece.

Pretty much this.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

For the same reason their minister of external affairs said he would aid Greece with exports of cheap fuel - strengthening their geopolitical power. Would Greece leave the Eurozone, its position in NATO would also be compromised because of the turmoil. Then it would be a great time for Russia to ally with us, considering also our beef with Turkey.

Therefore, instead of Greece having a currency that they print and regulate, they use paper shipped in from Russia, that Russia prints and regulates?

 

[nature boy]

Either way, the person will the most pressure on his shoulders is Draghi.

 

[persongr]

Therefore, instead of Greece having a currency that they print and regulate, they use paper shipped in from Russia, that Russia prints and regulates?

Yes, it's probably a stupid conspiracy theory, but it circulates, especially in northern Greece.

 

[YoungFa]

What reforms towards a sustainable economy has greece already started since this whole ordeal began? From what I read about why their economy sucked so hard, is that for example some industries got protected by regulations causing competitive inertia at the cost of greece consumers. Did they start to get rid of such legislations?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Either way, the person will the most pressure on his shoulders is Draghi.

He's done the best possible job under the circumstances. He's more or less the only European official who has come out of this looking remotely competent.

 

[Negotiator]

What?? Why would Russia be printing Drachmas??

Sounds like a conspiracy theory that needs workshopping

Apparently some specimen notes have been leaked:

http://kastamonitis.blogspot.gr/2014/08/test-note.html

Then again, the Russia theory is bat shit crazy.

 

[oti]

#greece #euco €50bn lux-parked assets dead. no chance of 50bn, maybe not lux, back to athens. better lingo for tsipras on debt relief

https://mobile.twitter.com/traynorbrussels/status/620367116974321664

 

[mnz]

It's only like the biggest conceivable conflict of interest.

Looking at the proposal, it only says "fund like the Institution for Growth" and also that is "would be managed by the Greek authorities under the supervision of the relevant European institutions".

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJumEfBXAAA0SGM.jpg

Maybe it's worded poorly, anything else would be reason to sack Schäuble.

 

[nature boy]

He's done the best possible job under the circumstances. He's more or less the only European official who has come out of this looking remotely competent.

I agree, he's been under the circumstances the most responsible high level oficial, but if there's no deal today and the can is kicked down the road again, I'm not sure the greek banks can survive another week.

So Draghi might have to take matters into his own hands.


All types of rumors/reports on twitter: Rumor that France will provide a loan to Greece and that Greece has caved in all the major issues according to the el mundo correspondent.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Now i know this is FOX News, but.

JUST IN: IMF asks that Greek PM Tsipras resign. https://twitter.com/FoxBusiness/status/620359663389966336

If this is true, then the worm has truly turned.

Democracy? LOL

 

[CrunchyB]

In that case they should have never started with their referendum shenanigans. They should have tried to be professional over the last weeks and months by actually submitting real proposals on time, and not a few hours before meetings. That was the time when the traditional looking-for-a-shitty-compromise negotiations were still what everybody wanted to play.

That boneheaded referendum was the turning point. Holy shit, that was dumb, what did they think was going to happen?

Back when Syriza came into power, they should have worked with France and Germany and hammer out a deal that made those countries look good politically. I know, it sucks, but it's the only way to get things done in the EU/EZ. This was never really about the money, this was politics and it's a game that Tsipras obviously doesn't know how to play.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

https://mobile.twitter.com/traynorbrussels/status/620367116974321664

This is good news. That was by far the worst part of the draft.

A lot of other bad shit too, but that was just ridiculous.

The more I think about it, that was so stupid that the Germans may have only put it in to make the other stuff look less bad. Now they can gracefully skip this demand to make the shitty deal look better to Greece, and allow Tsipras to look like he negotiated a better deal to make it easier to get the other shitty stuff through Greek parliament.

 

[YoungFa]

This is good news. That was by far the worst part of the draft.

A lot of other bad shit too, but that was just ridiculous.

The more I think about it, that was so stupid that the Germans may have only put it in to make the other stuff look less bad. Now they can gracefully skip this demand to make the shitty deal look better to Greece, and allow Tsipras to look like he negotiated a better deal to make it easier to get the other shitty stuff through Greek parliament.

 

[Tugatrix]

That would be an incredible tactless and undemocratic move from the imf.

if you think this is a democracy you haven't been paying attention

 

[wsippel]

Jesus christ the right wing German government is destroying the European project for short term political gain. It is absolutely disgusting. Kohl must be spinning in his grave.

LOL, "right wing". German's current government is center-left. Kohl's government was center-right.

 

[Negotiator]

They wouldn't have the capability to do it whatsoever

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/nov/22/de-la-rue-opportunities-eurozone-breakup

"However, he cautioned that it was unlikely De La Rue would be selected to reprint the Greek drachma, Italian lira or Spanish peseta because all three countries have state-owned printers which could easily revert to their historic currencies."

 

[YoungFa]

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/13/dr-schaubles-plan-for-europe-do-europeans-approve-article-to-appear-in-die-zeit-on-thursday-16th-july-2015/

I wrote this article not as a Greek politician critical of the German press’ denigration of our sensible proposals, of Berlin’s refusal seriously to consider our moderate debt re-profiling plan, of the European Central Bank’s highly political decision to asphyxiate our government, of the Eurogroup’s decision to give the ECB the green light to shut down our banks.

Very passive aggresive undertone.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

LOL, "right wing". German's current government is center-left. Kohl's government was center-right.

Wat. It's a unity coalition between CDU/CSU (centre-right) and SPD (centre-left) where most of the most important ministers are from CDU/CSU.

Speaking of you being wrong, do you have yet the data showing austerity working for anyone with a currency peg or in a currency union which I asked you to show?

 

[persongr]

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/13/dr-schaubles-plan-for-europe-do-europeans-approve-article-to-appear-in-die-zeit-on-thursday-16th-july-2015/

Very passive aggresive undertone.

Sometimes, I really want to point my finger at Varoufakis and start blaming him for everything (as almost all media and the 3/4 of the population do in Greece) but, alas, it would be so easy to target a non-politician for this mess, with just 5 months of governance.

 

[ElTorro]

What I always found curious about Varoufakis is how he managed to write so many articles in newspapers and, according to a Spiegel journalist, answered mails with requests for interviews in under 20 minutes. It's almost like this guy didn't have a busy schedule as one of the key figures in this entire crisis. He was apparently to busy to submit a damn proposal on time when the current marathon of negotiations kicked off.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

 

[YoungFa]

What I always found curious about Varoufakis is how he managed to write so many articles in newspapers and, according to a Spiegel journalist, answered mails with requests for interviews in under 20 minutes. It's almost like this guy didn't have a busy schedule as one of the key figures in this entire crisis. He was apparently to busy to submit a damn proposal on time when the current marathon of negotiations kicked off.

As an outsider he thought he wouldnt become one of these intransparent unaccesible politicans, until reality kicked in. Or he's just an attention whote.

 

[iidesuyo]

Who's Schaüble?.

 

[wsippel]

Wat. It's a unity coalition between CDU/CSU (centre-right) and SPD (centre-left) where most of the most important ministers are from CDU/CSU.

Speaking of you being wrong, do you have yet the data showing austerity working for anyone with a currency peg or in a currency union which I asked you to show?

As you correctly noted, CDU is center to center-right, SPD is center to center-left. CDU/ SPD is our current government. Kohl's was CDU/ FDP. FDP is liberal/ center-right.

Also, we fixed our shit using austerity measures. And by "we", I mean Germany. And by "our shit", I mean reunification. We managed, currency union and all. And some dumb fucks in the US and elsewhere dare to claim we don't understand economics. Absolutely ridiculous...

Who's Schaüble?.

More importantly, does George Paraeakes or what's his name understand what the KfW is?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Who's Schaüble?.

German Finance Minister.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Also, we fixed our shit using austerity measures. And by "we", I mean Germany. And by "our shit", I mean reunification. We managed, currency union and all. And some dumb fucks in the US and elsewhere dare to claim we don't understand economics. Absolutely ridiculous...

You're either lying, joking, or do not understand what any of the terms you're talking about actually mean.

 

[iidesuyo]

German Finance Minister.

Never. Like Öbomü isn't US President.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Never.

Oh, you were joking about the misplaced umlaut. Sorry, hard to tell who is joking and who is genuinely asking at this point.

 

[wsippel]

You're either lying, joking, or do not understand what any of the terms you're talking about actually mean.

And I think you just don't know all that much about German history, and I don't feel like teaching history right now.

 

[Coriolanus]

And I think you just don't know all that much about German history, and I don't feel like teaching history right now.

No no, go on. Tell us how Schröder saved the country. Such a swell guy, that man.

 

[Negotiator]

And some dumb fucks in the US and elsewhere dare to claim we don't understand economics. Absolutely ridiculous...

Well, at least Americans are not driven by religious ideologies.

 

[nature boy]

As an outsider he thought he wouldnt become one of these intransparent unaccesible politicans, until reality kicked in. Or he's just an attention whote.

The latter. He has a big ego to feed.

Too bad he wrecked the greek economy even more than before.

 

[wsippel]

No no, go on. Tell us how Schröder saved the country. Such a swell guy, that man.

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I certainly have nothing good to say about Schröder. But Crab was posting hours ago how the GDR was super competitive all of a sudden after reunification - except that's not even remotely close to what really happened. The reunification was a complete shit-show, painful and expensive.

 

[Piecake]

You're either lying, joking, or do not understand what any of the terms you're talking about actually mean.

Do you mind providing an explanation? I tried looking up Germany's situation in the 90s-2000s since I have seen people use that as an example of successful austerity, but I didnt find any real analysis on the subject.

 

[burnjanso]

What reforms towards a sustainable economy has greece already started since this whole ordeal began? From what I read about why their economy sucked so hard, is that for example some industries got protected by regulations causing competitive inertia at the cost of greece consumers. Did they start to get rid of such legislations?

I am curious about this too. Since Tsipras has taken office, what's been done to strengthen tax collection, fix tax laws and other things on the Greece's to do list? Why wait around for other countries to lay down a plan and face humiliation, when taking preemptive measures would have brought much more trust and leverage in the bailout negotiation?

 

[wsippel]

Do you mind providing an explanation? I tried looking up Germany's situation in the 90s-2000s since I have seen people use that as an example of successful austerity, but I didnt find any real analysis on the subject.

He probably can't. From what I've seen, almost nobody outside of Germany has any idea what happened, most people in Germany never really understood what happened, and the articles you'll find online, on Wikipedia for example, are largely ideologic drivel. Really depressing. It's basically "and then, Germany reunified and lived happily ever after", as if it was a walk in the park. Reunification cost us roughly €2 trillion, with an additional €100 billion every year to this day. And the East is still not quite on par.

 

[Negotiator]

Reunification cost us roughly €2 trillion, with an additional €100 billion every year to this day. And the East is still not quite on par.

If the German unification has cost 2 trillion euros, then how much do you think that the European unification could eventually cost? Quadrillion of euros? Genuine question.

Spoiler

And then you blame (Super) Mario Draghi and his magic printer...

 

[wsippel]

If the German unification has cost 2 trillion euros, then how much do you think that the European unification could eventually cost? Quadrillion of euros? Genuine question.

Spoiler

And then you blame (Super) Mario Draghi and his magic printer...

Most countries in Europe are not quite as broke as the GDR was back in the day but yes, it would be really fucking expensive. We know that. That's why we don't want a transfer union. We already have one, and it's expensive as hell. But printing money is not a sensible solution. Printing bills just generates colorful paper, not actual money.