ManaByte
Member
Which will come first, Winds of Winter or his blog post about how bad House of the Dragon has gone?
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GRRM doesn't sound happy with House of the Dragon
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Which will come first, Winds of Winter or his blog post about how bad House of the Dragon has gone?
Sonik
Member
Get over it, he'll either never write that book and if he does it'll be years later and won't be as good as the previous ones. I don't think some of you guys realize how much age degrades your brain, the man has enough self-awareness to understand that so he has either given up to preserve his legacy or goes really slow because he knows his mind isn't what it used to be
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But he could just hire a ghostwriter. Hell, thats what he has done on the last 3-4 Westeros history book type things. All he really needs to do is provide the outline, pop in to spice up the dialogue and get that "hey, the guy with the red cup was a reference to this which was mentioned here..." detail, and bam, we are done.
I think he has no real great ending, the series kind of spun out of control, and seeing how his 'outline' was butchered in the show he just gave up. Plus, stuff like the "Hodor" realization was probably like half a book worth of flashbacks, build-up, and rising tension but now everyone knows so it now drags. I bet there will be a posthumous release of everything where he doesn't have to deal with the haters.
Sonik
Member
The best part of the books imo is the characters and how detailed and realistic they are, I don't want a ghostwriter butchering them like the Hollywood morons did in Game of Thrones after a few seasons. The entire plot of the books is based on these characters interacting with each other and making choices that impact the plot and other characters, if this element that makes the story feel organic isn't there anymore the story doesn't matter
Cyberpunkd
Member
winjer
Gold Member
At this point we might just get some LLM finish his books.
nightmare-slain
Banned
Deleted
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Werewolf Jones
Member
Mad the way fate took Kentaro Miura but not this guy.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
The guys a walking time bomb for a heart attack, I would love to start into the GOT books but I'm not starting a massive series without an ending and he really needs to sort out that abysmal ending from the show as well, none of this will ever happen, he's got his fat fingers in too many pies and shows no real interest in finishing what he started
Drake
Member
I'd say even without an ending they are worth reading. The first 3 books are some of my favorite fantasy books ever. Even AFFC and ADWD are really well done despite the criticism's of both books. George really is a good author when he actually decides to write something. I don't regret my time spent reading the series at all as the quality of the books are that high.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I haven't watched any episodes of House of the Dragon because GoT ended on such an incredibly fucking shitty note. I heard that season 1 of HotD was actually pretty good and that GRRM was actually going to have more creative and quality control this time, which is why it was very surprising to me that many people said that HotD season 2 was shit.
What the fuck happened?
GRRM is incredibly talented and has a powerful IP to his name, but over the last decade the dude has been racking up Ls and I can't help but suspect that the common denominator here might just be him.
I just want his IP to be respected and given the treatment it deserves. It's a shame this is what it has become.
What the fuck happened?
GRRM is incredibly talented and has a powerful IP to his name, but over the last decade the dude has been racking up Ls and I can't help but suspect that the common denominator here might just be him.
I just want his IP to be respected and given the treatment it deserves. It's a shame this is what it has become.
Tams
Member
He's become a lazy fuck.
Okay, okay. That's unfair. He has reached his twilight years, and everyone's capabilities degrade by then.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Nah, he is a lazy fuck. Them problem is he cannot admit it.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
For clarification: I've read most of Fire and Blood and The World of Ice and Fire (they're pretty dense and read like history books, but I did my best).
Season one was, eh, kind of on point. Season two was a bunch of bad writers' fevered dreams of the actual lore.
So if GRRM is pissed he deserves to be IMO.
I think the Dunk and Egg novellas are the best things GRRM has written. I am looking forward to the show.
That audiobook collection of all of those stories is terrific. Harry Lloyd is an excellent narrator.
Season one was, eh, kind of on point. Season two was a bunch of bad writers' fevered dreams of the actual lore.
So if GRRM is pissed he deserves to be IMO.
I think the Dunk and Egg novellas are the best things GRRM has written. I am looking forward to the show.
That audiobook collection of all of those stories is terrific. Harry Lloyd is an excellent narrator.
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ManaByte
Member
Trelane
Member
GRRM needs to get off the Internet. He’s been taking to heart everything that’s been said of him and his works, the adaptations, his personal life, everything. It’s not good for your mental health to abuse social media.
If he doesn’t feel like finishing the stories, that’s fine with me. I think he’s afraid to say it due to the inevitable backlash that we all know would come pouring out of Twatter.
If he doesn’t feel like finishing the stories, that’s fine with me. I think he’s afraid to say it due to the inevitable backlash that we all know would come pouring out of Twatter.
HoodWinked
Member
it's a win/win for him, if it was good he'd take credit, if it's bad he can trash it like it's not his fault.
March Climber
Member
This is a much harsher way of pointing out what I was going to, which is that ASOIAF/HotD/GoT fans are going through a very similar timeline of events to Berserk fans…stories never finishing, mixed quality adaptations, and the rest.
I see it as something both fandoms could relate to together and discuss.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Funny thing I've been a part of those two fandoms since the early 2000s
That's one thing that's shared between the two fandoms I'll say that, other than A Song of Ice And Fire and Berserk both having Extremely Dark Themes and Subject Matter
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I feel you, but at the same time, he needs to give his fans The Winds of Winter
He just has too
Imagine if JK Rowling just up and decided to never finish Harry Potter. It would suck right? That's where we are at with GRRM now. Dude just won't commit.
I am over the moon for him that he loves editing Wild Cards or whatever. Great. But please man. Lord In Heaven. Give us one more book.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
He doesn't write outlines really. He tries to get into every scene and organically write what each character would actually say based on their own motivations, and then he sees where that ends up as a story. That's why it gets so unwieldy for him. It just keeps expanding. It's like an improv session in extreme slow motion. When it actually works, that's how you get characters that speak and react intelligently instead of following what is needed for the plot.
Toons
Member
Winds of Winter is never coming out.
Klosshufvud
Member
HOTD is basically like a Spanish telenovela spin-off of ASOIAF. It's so dull and stupid. The characterizations are nowhere as interesting and complex as in GoT. The show feels like it was written backwards, with big battles and conflicts as the base and the characters being fit into that mold. Meanwhile GoT has a very natural drive to conflict, since the underlying work with the characters and world is done so well.
Regardless, GRRM has let down his fans a million times now. From letting D&D absolutely destroy any semblance of faithful adaption to just letting HBO having open season with the books is just disgraceful. It's been 13 years since ADWD. I was a teenager when I finished the book. He should've been more transparent about the state of things and he should just admit that the lackluster show finale just killed his motivation to tell a story that the shitty show already spoiled. I sort of feel bad for him since he seems to easily place his faith in others but it has ended with harming his series and fans.
Regardless, GRRM has let down his fans a million times now. From letting D&D absolutely destroy any semblance of faithful adaption to just letting HBO having open season with the books is just disgraceful. It's been 13 years since ADWD. I was a teenager when I finished the book. He should've been more transparent about the state of things and he should just admit that the lackluster show finale just killed his motivation to tell a story that the shitty show already spoiled. I sort of feel bad for him since he seems to easily place his faith in others but it has ended with harming his series and fans.
Lunarorbit
Member
Grrm is a shit stain on the underwear of the united states
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
I stopped watching HotD after S1E1. It was evident within that hour that talent less people took over. And I was stupid enough and bought the 4K BD of the whole season :/
Thaedolus
Member
The first season is pretty great overall. It’s worth watching. The second season became a slog
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
There is nothing to suggest Winds won't be a great book. It could be as good as Storms with the number of set pieces lined up.
He's always been a slow writer and has admitted he's spent his life missing deadlines. Although, I do agree the older he gets the harder it'll be to finish.
Giving up would tarnish his legacy. He knows this. At Bubonicon, which was held in New Mexico a few weeks ago, Martin apparently talked a lot about his legacy. He talked about visiting Tolkien's grave and worrying that he won't be able to leave a similar legacy unless he finishes ASOIAF.
Do I think he'll finish? I think he'll finish Winds, but not Dream, unless he's writing them back to back. This would explain the massive delay, but Martin has publicly said he hasn't started Dream yet.
I personally think he has extensive notes in place in case he dies before finishing Winds. I know this is something else he's denied, but this would be the only way to safeguard his legacy.
CuckooBananaNuts
Banned
Who cares? Finish your Game of Thrones story.
Was Winds supposedly complete like TEN YEARS AGO but just needed some tweaking? I can't imagine why he hasn't cobbled together some sort of publishable book, either by exciting chapters that don't quite work yet or just shortening it. There must be some sort of fundamentally unsolvable narrative issue at play here.
The problem with GRRMs "legacy" is that he has no heir, no Chris Tolkein figure that would steward his work posthumous. I think a LOT of the success of LOTR and the high regard for JRRT is really due to Chris. I know GRRM has some "disciples" and even some fairly strong authors in his immediate writers group in Santa Fe, but none of them seem like they are being groomed to carry on the world, it's just these HBO deals.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Nobody saw the book yet. I think he does not have a finished book yet, far from it
He doesn't care, otherwise he would ha finished this book ages ago. He has terrible work ethic where he needs to be "inspired" to write a book:
Horatius
Member
i think he'll go soft on the writers and write more about the structural problems the season had when HBO suits randomly decided it had to be eight episodes, even though all the planning and writing was complete and they were planning around the usual 10.
but the writers absolutely did fuck it up too, i don't think two more episodes were going to salvage it, but seeing as at least one of the two was going to be probably the biggest battle they're going to have in the show, it would have moved the story forward at least, something the first eight episodes sure as shit didn't do.
but the writers absolutely did fuck it up too, i don't think two more episodes were going to salvage it, but seeing as at least one of the two was going to be probably the biggest battle they're going to have in the show, it would have moved the story forward at least, something the first eight episodes sure as shit didn't do.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Correct, but we know what to expect from it from Feast and Dance.
I think he does care, but is easily distracted. He's the king of procrastination.
Yeah. He told his publishers he'd have the book finished for a October 2015 deadline. At that time he thought he was pretty much done. No idea what happened. Probably a complete rewrite.
Personally, I think somebody like Joe Abercrombie would be a good fit. I can't really think of anybody else who would be up to the task.
Even if George doesn't finish it, as long as plans are in place for somebody else to do the job then his legacy is safe.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I think the reaction to the last three seasons of A Game of Thrones scared him. He's know no matter what he releases, the fanbase is gonna to be mad with him
Trilobit
Member
Writing a book isn't exactly like building a house where you can finish it simply by keeping up the work as you can order the material from others. The material for some writers only come through their inspiration. They aren't just stitching together words. They meld emotions, events, characters and worlds into something that flows like a song with a beginning, middle and ending.
Some writers, like Stephen
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IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Ummmm
diffusionx
Gold Member
Bet he likes the money.
If only there was a way for GRRM to exert some control over the universe he made, like, say, releasing something in it of which he has full control.
If only there was a way for GRRM to exert some control over the universe he made, like, say, releasing something in it of which he has full control.