It depends on what you are looking for. If you enjoy ASOIAF lore, then those two stories will explain the events leading up to the end of dragons in Westeros. They are a little drier than the Dunk and Egg books though. They are presented as stories in a history book, and therefore lack dramatic build-up or character POV.
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GRRM's The World of Ice & Fire: The Untold History of Westeros |OT| Spoiler Thread
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It depends on what you are looking for. If you enjoy ASOIAF lore, then those two stories will explain the events leading up to the end of dragons in Westeros. They are a little drier than the Dunk and Egg books though. They are presented as stories in a history book, and therefore lack dramatic build-up or character POV.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Looks neat. I'll probably check this out.
I'm pretty sure that the land of always winter forms a polar icecap, connecting Essos to Westeors. This could make it possible for Azor Ahai to end the Long Night in Westeors, despite coming from the East. It's not such a long distance if you ride North until you start going South.
Basileus777
Member
It could be, the maps conveniently don't show what is northeast of the grey waste. Though judging the distance is hard when we don't know the size of the planet.
So at the start the book pretty much confirms that the odd and variable length of the seasons is unrelated to the position of the planet, which to me confirms that whatever is behind the others and drives them Dow from the far north is also what causes the long winters.
So I guess once they're defeated the seasons will be constant like our own.
So I guess once they're defeated the seasons will be constant like our own.
I think there's so much that we haven't seen. We have no idea how far east Essos goes, and we've only seen the northernmost Sothoryosi coast. There's an entire Southern Hemisphere, where anything could be going on.
Basileus777
Member
There's a story in this book of a dragon rider being unable to reach Sothoryosi southern coast, so it must be huge.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
In the other thread someone said the book would give more fuel to a popular fan theory out there. Which was it?
I'm wondering if it's the "Lannister children are secret Targs" (either Cersei/Jaime, or Tyrion, or all three) theory. I never found it remotely credible in any way, and I certainly don't want it to be true, but the book kind of confirms that Aerys repeatedly raped Joanna Lannister (which was just hinted at in ADWD, IIRC), so I can see how that'd be "fuel".
Really hope it's not true though. We have enough secret Targs already. -_-
I'm wondering if it's the "Lannister children are secret Targs" (either Cersei/Jaime, or Tyrion, or all three) theory. I never found it remotely credible in any way, and I certainly don't want it to be true, but the book kind of confirms that Aerys repeatedly raped Joanna Lannister (which was just hinted at in ADWD, IIRC), so I can see how that'd be "fuel".
Really hope it's not true though. We have enough secret Targs already. -_-
So Tommen is a Targaryen? Lame if true ;(
I've heard it actually debunks that theory. Thankfully.
http://joannalannister.tumblr.com/p...fortheironthrone-asked-me-what-i-think-of-all
We only need one secret Targ
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
True, I forgot the timeline doesn't work for Cersei and Jaime, but it could work for Tyrion I think. I'd have to re-read but Aerys visited Casterly Rock at some point, but I'm not sure if the timing for Tyrion's conception matches. Probably not, though.
It'd be great if that theory got debunked. It's really one of those I don't want to be true. I also hope Aegon is a fake Targ (or at least a Blackfyre at the most).
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
How in the world did I miss this? Bought immediately. It'll show up on Saturday!
I remember reading on the ASOIF reddit that the timing doesn't quite make sense for Cersei and Jaimie, but it could for Tyrion.
I think that's what it was. Either way, I'm with you. Would rather they stay actual Lannisters.
Holy shit. That's incredibly important, although it's strange that it's never been mentioned in the novels.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What is that Pact anyway?
Basileus777
Member
The Starks were supposed to be given a Targ bride for their support of the blacks in the Dance of Dragons.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Freezasaurus
Member
Alright, I'm convinced. I admit I didn't pay much attention to this when I saw it in the bookstore, but the Amazon preview pages sold me. Used some Amazon points and got it for $16 and change shipped.
curlyfriski
Banned
The Sothoryos portion bugged me because in most cases the narrator seemed impartial, casting doubt on many of the fantastical stories, but the description of the residents of Sothoryos as subhuman was presented as accepted truth.
Basileus777
Member
Yeah, especially given that Sothoryos is an analog to Africa. The real world parallel made it pretty uncomfortable to read.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
What do you mean?
It's my reading OCD.
Basically, I'm not sure if I'm to take this as a convenient way to dump exposition or not. Or if I'm to take it as a part of the "series experience" or not in the same line I take the other books.
It fleshes out the series, with some potentially important information. Not all of it will be important, but the actual main books have that too. So should I perceive it as being part of the series, since it exists only to serve and build it? But if I am to take it as part of the series... why take the format of a "optional, not part of series," book? Will I get rewarded in the series for knowing this stuff that other people won't? etc
I've read through most of it, though I admit I skipped some of the Targaryen biographies. If there is important information, it's well hidden, only teased (or dismissed by the maester), or vague (such as all sorts of foreshadowing). There's plenty of nice stories though that flesh out the world, while still leaving most to the imagination, yet allowing the reader to draw conclusions, such as the Yi Ti entry.
I'm taking it as an interesting extension to the main story, without being necessary or spoiling anything, unless you're one of those hardcore guys at the ASOIAF forums. As is common with GRRM though, I assume much can be discovered and connected upon re-readings.
Basileus777
Member
There are some hints and plenty of what are likely red herrings, but yes, there's nothing essential about this. Get it if you want some nice art and supplementary world building, but there's nothing here that's needed for the main series. A mid-series encyclopedia isn't going to reveal anything important.
I try to think of it like the lore section of old PC RPGs a la Ultima series. It is additional information that will allow you to furhter enjoy and build the world that you are experiencing in the "main quest" (aka the ASIOFAF series). While not vital for the story, it will surely increase my nerdga... erm, enjoyment, like adding grilled cheese to an already well cooked plate macarroni.
Basileus777
Member
I like how some of the recurring sources are used in this. Septon Barth wrote some real interesting things.
bengraven
Member
Freezasaurus
Member
So what page is this Stark / Targaryen bride business on?
I kind of wish GRRM (or at least his lackeys) would write in-universe texts after his novels are done. Quick shit like "Dragons, Wyverns, and Wyrms" or "Lives of Five Kings". It would flesh-out the universe a lot, and he could probably knock each out in a couple months.
Basileus777
Member
A lot of this stuff is kept deliberately vague, I don't know that GRRM will want to spill the beans even after the series is done.
Freezasaurus
Member
My guess is that Martin passes away before that, and Brandon Sanderson ends up churning it all out in a year or two.
Basileus777
Member
Sanderson will never do that again. Daniel Abraham was the obvious candidate, but his sci-fi career seems to be taking off. Not that anyone would be writing spin-off books if GRRM really did die.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen feels too fanficcy. Like hey let's take the 3 most popular characters, join em up, make them relatives and let them all ride dragons. Though I guess that could be why Martin has kept Tyrion alive even though he has had no importance to the plot since book 3.
Freezasaurus
Member
Well, no. Someone would need to finish the actual series, first.
m_shortpants
Member
I just want him to finish the damn series. But nowadays I don't know if that's going to happen. I don't know if he can finish it in 2 more books.
I guess I will have to resign myself to watching whatever ending D and D interpret and cobble together.
Basileus777
Member
HBO has that covered.
m_shortpants
Member
GRRM has stated multiple times he won't let anyone else finish writing his series.
Which is funny because that's exactly what HBO is doing.
The books are the one true canon.
Lol oh god, that would be awful. Can't stand Sanderson.
But yeah, I don't blame Martin at all if he never gets to the Fire and Blood book. He talks about it with a lot of certainty, but I'm sure he has his hands full with the main series.
Freezasaurus
Member
Well, he needs to come to terms with the fact that if he dies, someone is going to finish the series. Otherwise you're going to have a huge, angry fanbase.
I've read a couple of his books that I enjoyed, but he's not someone whose writing I could read book after book after book of.
Basileus777
Member
HBO will finish the series in less than three years from now. That will have to suffice if the worst happens, because I doubt anyone else finishes GRRM's books. Though his publishers will wish otherwise.
Well, Martin is in good enough condition that we can probably assume he'll at least finish the sixth book and write quite a lot of the seventh book, so even in the worst case scenario, if the seven book plans hold true, you'll only have to read parts of one book written by someone else, if they did get someone to finish things in case of Martin's untimely death, not book after book after book of the stuff.
Freezasaurus
Member
He needs to get on that and stop writing short stories, other novels, and everything else.
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