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[Steroyd]

I don't understand the defense of the microtransactions. Is it just fans of the game that don't want to admit there is anything wrong with the game?


Wouldn't the game be better without them? Shouldn't that be your primary concern... having the game be as good as it possibly can be?

From my point of view I don't understand the zero tolerance of games where microtransactions exist period, they've been in games from GTA V all the way back to Dead Space 1 and only because Forza overstepped the mark and confused itself with a f2p game we're going to boycott any game with any form of MT's now?

And I think the game would be the same with or without MT's so far it's like PD took on board with the complaints of GT5, there's an actual progressive system in career rather than me getting all the licenses in one go and then just plodding through the races, either my skills have become awesome since GT 5 or they've made it easier to gold missions and licenses, only thing that sounds like It'll peeve me off is the neutered endurance races, granted asking me to do a proper 24 hours in real time was insane, but that's what B-spec is for which isn't in the game.

A valid complaint in MT's favour is arcade mode, but I'm not sure that was ever open to every car in the game?

 

[IISANDERII]

And I think the game would be the same with or without MT's

You think but you cannot guarantee. The only way to be 100% certain you're not being subjected to some long form, indirect sales pitch is if the game didn't have any MTs whatsoever.

 

[Calabi]

What is with the head in the sand Ostrich comments of "The microtransaction arent in your face you have to go looking for them"

If you dont know your being ripped off its ok? If they give you less but your not aware of it, its ok?

The gameplay, the challenge is so crap in this I'm sure most people arent playing it for that, but more for the fun of driving the cars and testing themselves. But to get many of them you will have to race alot of the same races over and over again, it will grind you down and remove the fun.

I dont care about the previous game, the grind in this game is bad enough, if its equal to GT5 just means their both bad. Less prize cars for whatever reason, I dont think its necessarily because of microtransaction I think the designers like grind, see it as a legitimate method of keeping people playing not realizing it keeps some people playing but alienates the majority. I think the Sony guys cars probably came in later with their stats and realized making all this content was a waste of time and tried to fix it the only way the know how, money, which means it will never be fixed.

 

[Dead Man]

Isn't it impossible to patch out?

Well, they could release a new patch that links save games to game versions, so any game played on the updated version wouldn't load if you reverted the game data to 1.0, but that would be incredibly dickish. So expect it soon

 

[NullPointer]

From my point of view I don't understand the zero tolerance of games where microtransactions exist period, they've been in games from GTA V all the way back to Dead Space 1 and only because Forza overstepped the mark and confused itself with a f2p game we're going to boycott any game with any form of MT's now?

I didn't play Dead Space but microtransactions haven't been a positive for GTA V and you can absolutely see their influence on the game's design and grind and sinks. Gameplay gets lost in the soul-searching pursuit of the missions that provide the most payout for the least amount of work, to be repeated until you have worked hard enough to earn portions of the game you're actually interested in. Missions with high payouts get nerfed through patches to keep the grind up.

People are making a stink because they are becoming so much more common, are asking obscene prices for in-game content (rare cars in Forza and GT), and are surely on the path to turning games whole cloth into $60 fee to pay games. That's the exact trajectory we're on.

 

[commedieu]

Gameplay gets lost in the soul-searching pursuit of the missions that provide the most payout for the least amount of work, to be repeated until you have worked hard enough to earn portions of the game you're actually interested in..

This has been the case for car games....with pay outs for races. GT before microtransactions had me propping up my ds2 on the corner of a wall to do the indy 500 challenge with an F1 car to get a GREAT payout. MT's are lame, definitely, but this sort of play vs benefit hasn't really evolved for racing/driving games that rely on giving you money for races won, which reflects the sport/activity.

 

[NullPointer]

This has been the case for car games....with pay outs for races. GT before microtransactions had me propping up my ds2 on the corner of a wall to do the indy 500 challenge with an F1 car to get a GREAT payout.

Holy shit, hah!

Yeah, those grinds have been around for a while, and for various reasons. But do we want more of them, or less of them? Of course, there's a place where they're appropriate and cases where they're being shoehorned in. It gets dark and murky once you're tied to in-app-purchases though, as its naive to take the profit motive out of the equation in terms of how those systems are tuned.

Its on a case by case basis how onerous these things are, but we really are starting to see them everywhere. And where I don't mind them at all in game like Warframe, seeing this stuff in Forza just makes me think MS thinks we're suckers. GT much less so, but still.

Makes it a little harder to avoid cynicism when it comes to games that have yet to release like Destiny and The Division and others where you're certain to have unlocks and long XP progression systems.

 

[velociraptor]

I know OPs list is incredibly misleading but the prize car list in GT6 seems to be extremely limited.

One of the reasons I used to love the GT series is the anticipation of finishing races and winning a nice prize car.

What the hell have PD been thinking?

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Steroyd]

You think but you cannot guarantee. The only way to be 100% certain you're not being subjected to some long form, indirect sales pitch is if the game didn't have any MTs whatsoever.

Goes both ways, can't be certain x change was influenced by MT's, only paranoia at this stage, at the end of the day the game feels like a £40 game, the changes feel like they took on criticisms of GT5 more than anything, and there's absolutely nothing in the game that feels like they're trying to pressure me into buying credits with real money like a f2p game (I have to go out of my way specifically looking for them, in order to buy them).

For the record I think this whole generation is shit, with on disc dlc, dlc only high stat items, unlocking rpg characters in-game but not being able to use them until I pay with real money (yes that's a thing), in-game npc with a sidequest that leads me straight to the store that I need to purchase before I can do it, infact thinking back in the last 6 years this is the most inoffensive dlc/microtransaction ever.

 

[Nibiru]

I have heard is that there are a ton of courses though.

 

[staticneuron]

How many people play GT to "finish" it?

Raises hand!

The grind, to the extent there is one, comes down to unlocking the cars and features you're most interested in. And for some, sure, that's completing the game.

What is completion in this sense? Gold in all events? In that case you still need to buy cars and upgrade them to be able to enter and excel at each event. That takes credits.


But it is harder, right now.

To complete the game, simply get golds in all the races. You don't have to purchase every car and again you do not have to upgrade them all to win. I pointed this out before and I will again.

I have completed 4 of the goodwood events (all that is available to me for now), the lunar mission ALL of the novice and National B races. I have also finished the coffee break, missions and one make model races in each of those. I have gotten all golds.

I purchased a GTR (not out of necessity), and the cars for one make races (prius and 86) 2 karts. All said I am sitting on almost half a million credits, only needed to spend less than 80k for completion purposes and it still looks like I am ok for the national A races as well.

You really don't have to spend much at all unless you "want" to. Frustrating for car collectors? Sure, cause the game has alot of cars. But if you are good at racing it really wont be much of a concern. I am pretty sure i could have purchased alot of cars with my winnings already.

I didn't play Dead Space but microtransactions haven't been a positive for GTA V and you can absolutely see their influence on the game's design and grind and sinks. Gameplay gets lost in the soul-searching pursuit of the missions that provide the most payout for the least amount of work, to be repeated until you have worked hard enough to earn portions of the game you're actually interested in. Missions with high payouts get nerfed through patches to keep the grind up.

People are making a stink because they are becoming so much more common, are asking obscene prices for in-game content (rare cars in Forza and GT), and are surely on the path to turning games whole cloth into $60 fee to pay games. That's the exact trajectory we're on.

What are you talking about? This certainly doesn't apply to Single player. And if you are applying this to multiplayer, then that really is being paranoid.

 

[Dead Man]

Raises hand!



To complete the game, simply get golds in all the races. You don't have to purchase every car and again you do not have to upgrade them all to win. I pointed this out before and I will again.

I have completed 4 of the goodwood events (all that is available to me for now), the lunar mission ALL of the novice and National B races. I have also finished the coffee break, missions and one make model races in each of those. I have gotten all golds.

I purchased a GTR (not out of necessity), and the cars for one make races (prius and 86) 2 karts. All said I am sitting on almost half a million credits, only needed to spend less than 80k for completion purposes and it still looks like I am ok for the national A races as well.

You really don't have to spend much at all unless you "want" to. Frustrating for car collectors? Sure, cause the game has alot of cars. But if you are good at racing it really wont be much of a concern. I am pretty sure i could have purchased alot of cars with my winnings already.

Finishing every race once is not really the point of a racing game. Well, it shouldn't be.

 

[staticneuron]

Finishing every race once is not really the point of a racing game. Well, it shouldn't be.

Well I said getting Gold. First place. means you are the best on a track. Apparently not many can do it.

Edit: That being said for a career based racing game like GT and Forza it should. If you simply want to race for the sake of racing or explore just for the thrill of driving around, other racers are better suited for that.

 

[Dead Man]

Well I said getting Gold. First place. means you are the best on a track. Apparently not many can do it.

Getting gold once is not the point of a racing game. Racing is. It's like saying getting a perfect season is the point of a baseball game or something.

 

[NullPointer]

What are you talking about? This certainly doesn't apply to Single player. And if you are applying this to multiplayer, then that really is being paranoid.

I'm speaking of GTAO, and its not paranoid at all to see how they've designed that game to push their currency sales.

To complete the game, simply get golds in all the races. You don't have to purchase every car and again you do not have to upgrade them all to win. I pointed this out before and I will again.

I'm working on it.

Been bouncing between this and Warframe so its been interesting to compare and contrast the progression systems. In both cases I'm enjoying the moment to moment gameplay though.

 

[staticneuron]

I'm speaking of GTAO, and its not paranoid at all to see how they've designed that game to push their currency sales.

Ok, name one multiplayer game in which you have to rank up or level up that ISN'T a grind?

I have played quite a few MP games that either had me rank up or level up and I have never hit max rank in any of em despite spending well over 100 hours in 'em. Every single one I have played is technically a grind.

Been bouncing between this and Warframe so its been interesting to compare and contrast the progression systems. In both cases I'm enjoying the moment to moment gameplay though.

I will be honest, I played Warframe, blacklight, planetside, hawken and Dust 514, just for example and the level of grind these games have are FAR above anything I have seen in a game you pay for.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

What is with the head in the sand Ostrich comments of "The microtransaction arent in your face you have to go looking for them"

If you dont know your being ripped off its ok? If they give you less but your not aware of it, its ok?

No. If they aren't throwing it in your face every 5 minutes (a la Forza), then it likely wasn't the driving force (excuse the pun) when making design decisions. GT6's microtransactions are tucked away nicely in a corner, which at the very least makes it seem less obtrusive.

 

[NullPointer]

Every single one I have played is technically a grind.

Most of them are, and at the expense of game balance (has the even starts multiplayer concept become extinct on the consoles?). And we're now seeing those grinds becoming monetized. This is usually alongside changes that restrict previous freedoms that would allow the player to experience unlocks without needing to adhere to the core progression (free play modes, gifting/sharing, private player-only modes).

I'm not saying all grinds are bad, because they aren't. I'm saying they get perverted by attaching them to real world purchases. The core challenge of the game starts to bend ever so slightly towards applying pressure for the upsell, and then it gets less slight. That pressure affects us each differently but its still there and purposefully so. This starts to feel honestly insulting and manipulative when applied to already full priced games. Even more so when you look at some of the prices for the rarer content.

I don't like where this is going.

And would it really be a disservice to remove these kinds of in-app purchases from these games? Like Mortimer I'm honestly surprised at the level of pushback.

 

[famousmortimer]

Well as long as it's better than forza all is right with the world!

 

[commedieu]

Holy shit, hah!

Yeah, those grinds have been around for a while, and for various reasons. But do we want more of them, or less of them? Of course, there's a place where they're appropriate and cases where they're being shoehorned in. It gets dark and murky once you're tied to in-app-purchases though, as its naive to take the profit motive out of the equation in terms of how those systems are tuned.

Its on a case by case basis how onerous these things are, but we really are starting to see them everywhere. And where I don't mind them at all in game like Warframe, seeing this stuff in Forza just makes me think MS thinks we're suckers. GT much less so, but still.

Makes it a little harder to avoid cynicism when it comes to games that have yet to release like Destiny and The Division and others where you're certain to have unlocks and long XP progression systems.

Less, most definitely. The reality of the situation, is that MT's are here to stay. They will affect the natural design of a games process. Pubs/Devs are looking to squeeze money out of us, this is evident in DRM/MT's everything lately. We've been gaming long enough to see genuine things from Devs/Pubs, and money grabs. MT's are money grabs. Its disgusting, and has no business in racing games. But hey, we didn't say anything about it, so now we have to work on reducing. We all know that this isn't to help out the wee-gamer who is just having oh-so-hard of a time with their game. Its to have people pay, to make more money for the share holders. The only way people will pay, is if it is more convenient to do so. When you start with the option of paying vs playing, you're already speaking to a demographic with the income(possible lack of time due to working) to consider this. They know their target audience.

Racing games should have boosters that increase credits that you can only win with your specific experience, racing something like a Sponsorship- You race a type of car often enough, you get sponsored by them. They pay you a % when you place, on top of a discount of parts for the sponsored car. Bonus $ for beating makes of 'rival' cars. Or, something like getting a redbull sponsorship which would apply to any car your drivatar drive, but its dependent on your success in the game. Lose a few races over and over, lose the sponsorship.

You play/win enough for Car Magazines to offer photographing your car. You cant access it for a few days, but you get credits while you cant use the car. Developers need to get more creative for payouts that match the game world.

maybe its a brainfart. I just think the archaic model of campaigns in sims are painfully repetitive without much happening outside of the grind. I think Toca may have done some of these.

tldr;

MT's + Grinding = worse campaigns for gamers, because you have to balance MT's with the archaic grind to begin with.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't understand the defense of the microtransactions. Is it just fans of the game that don't want to admit there is anything wrong with the game?


Wouldn't the game be better without them? Shouldn't that be your primary concern... having the game be as good as it possibly can be?

You'll notice a distinct difference in the take on this game between the people that have actually played it and the people that are just going around reading bullshit about it on the internet. It's there but it isn't intrusive in any way. Playing through GT6 is just like playing through any other GT. So, no it wouldn't be better because it wasn't affected by the move.

 

[famousmortimer]

You'll notice a distinct difference in the take on this game between the people that have actually played it and the people that are just going around reading bullshit about it on the internet. It's there but it isn't intrusive in any way. Playing through GT6 is just like playing through any other GT. So, no it wouldn't be better because it wasn't affected by the move.

I notice a defensiveness between people who dont want bad things said about GT6 and the rest of the world who thinks that MTs, even when they aren't in your face, AREN'T A FUCKING GOOD THING.

 

[commedieu]

I notice a defensiveness between people who dont want bad things said about GT6 and the rest of the world who thinks that MTs, even when they aren't in your face, AREN'T A FUCKING GOOD THING.

happened in the Forza thread too.. I love GT to death, but fuck MT's in any shape or form. Its not good for console games with sixty fucking dollar prices and im unlocking bullshit with $ thats already on the disc. fuck that noise.

 

[NullPointer]

Whats gets me most about this, commedieu, is that I'm more than willing to part with my money for more content. I love some quality DLC. Even for visual customizations.

I'm pretty sure I bought all the DLC on offer with GT5. Most of it at least.

I just don't want to feel like I'm getting oh so subtly fleeced or that I'm losing capabilities so that player X over there feels compelled to break out the credit card out of annoyance or feeling rushed.

As always there's a much better middle-ground than whats being staked out here. But that requires delivering value, and why do that when you can deliver something as ethereal as XP? And hey, double XP if you pre-ordered. And double XP if you play the DLC playlists or the events with DLC cars.

 

[famousmortimer]

My line with MTs/DLC is whether it's for items or whether it's currency. I don't like any of it, but playing AC4 and seeing I can unlock better swords and shit for $5 or whatever... fine. It's stupid, but I can deal with it.


When a game is built around currency, be it GT6/Forza/FIFA Ultimate Team/NBA 2k14... that's when the entire game gets fucked. And if it doesn't get fucked this time... if, indeed, GT6 never ever has any changes because of the MTs and somehow you never even go up against anyone online who bought MTs (and we ignore that car gifting is now gone)... it has gotten AN AWFUL LOT OF YOU comfortable with MTs being in the game. So when GT7 comes out and car renting is gone... eh, whatevs. I love GT! And GT8 comes out and the cost of the cars double... oh shit, these MTs are killing gaming!


Or I'm "paranoid." Because companies don't have a track record of pulling bullshit like this.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Ok, name one multiplayer game in which you have to rank up or level up that ISN'T a grind?

I have played quite a few MP games that either had me rank up or level up and I have never hit max rank in any of em despite spending well over 100 hours in 'em. Every single one I have played is technically a grind.

Gee, almost enough to make you question why the hell they're putting grinds in MP games huh?

If there are no progression microtransactions, the grind is dumb. If there are progression microtransactions, now the grind becomes this thing where they've now purposefully made their game worse so they can charge people more money.

So we all get games with shitty design so that the whales can be exploited.

I notice a defensiveness between people who dont want bad things said about GT6 and the rest of the world who thinks that MTs, even when they aren't in your face, AREN'T A FUCKING GOOD THING.

The nicest thing I've ever seen of these sort of microtransactions is that they're 'not that bad' or 'it doesn't make things worse'. No one ever says how they improve the experience.

 

[NullPointer]

Or I'm "paranoid." Because companies don't have a track record of pulling bullshit like this.

Nothing warned against on GAF has ever come to fruition. Paying for multiplayer never took off, online passes led to lower prices and longer game and server support and never ever applied to single player content, game content wasn't cut and on-disk content wasn't sold as DLC, COD's perks and unlocks didn't carry over to every other multiplayer game out there, always online never took off and even if it did there wouldn't be any problems because everybody's online to write on GAF which is why Battlefield 4 is awesome, Diablo 3's always online and real money auction house didn't change a thing, and SimCity's online wan't purely about DLC, etc.

It is known.

 

[QaaQer]

I notice a defensiveness between people who dont want bad things said about GT6 and the rest of the world who thinks that MTs, even when they aren't in your face, AREN'T A FUCKING GOOD THING.

haha, exactly. Fans of games (and consoles) will excuse a lot.

 

[staticneuron]

I notice a defensiveness between people who dont want bad things said about GT6 and the rest of the world who thinks that MTs, even when they aren't in your face, AREN'T A FUCKING GOOD THING.

I think it has more to do with the fact that alot of people noticed MT's in games already for years. So this isn't a new trend, people will call it a problem if they start negatively changing the gameplay or structure. For GT6 it is kind of hard to tell if it is negative because they changed around alot of things. For a car collector that wants to get every kind of car under the sun, GT5 was a bit better because they awarded many cars, even if the cars weren't worth much or appealing to most players.

GT6 removed restrictions on purchases (levels) so once you have enough credits you can purchase any car. That added to the fact that the game just seems easier, faster to enter and complete a race, easier to gold without needing to upgrade vehicle to insane levels and the star based system for race progression, just provides a different progression system that feels "faster". The only downside is for people who want to collect every car in the game and people who are really bad at racing.

The thing that has stood out to me ever since I noticed MT's in games, is that most of them, have not changed the progression or leveling mechanic. Most importantly, a majority of them don't need too. The way games are designed, they need to put that grind there as a hook. All games have them, the only questions are is it an enjoyable ride, is it excessive, does it feel like a chore.

Thankfully most examples of games that have had them over the years simply didn't seem like they were pushing you to spend money on them. Could be a setup, you guys maybe right. But for now, the sheer fact that they exist as an option for those that may not have enough time or are simply lazy, I don't find as evil. The moment when a game seems like it cease to be fun and starts to look like a chore they will lose me as a customer. I already spend an excessive amount of time on games in general without one of them trying to consume my life. I refuse to pay for MT. I don't think they should be needed to complete a game.

Gee, almost enough to make you question why the hell they're putting grinds in MP games huh?

Because that is the way it has always been. gamers like to feel rewarded for time, effort, and skill. Leveling/ranking up in games allow for that type of a system to happen. If you are skillful it will happen faster, especially in cases of shooters. If you are not skilled all you have to do is be patient.

If MP games didn't have them they would all be leaderboard based and more people will simply hop to the next game that has MP rather than to stick around a particular title.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I notice a defensiveness between people who dont want bad things said about GT6 and the rest of the world who thinks that MTs, even when they aren't in your face, AREN'T A FUCKING GOOD THING.

I wasn't defensive about those 5/10 or 6/10 reviews that came out for it. They stated their cases and while I didn't really agree with it, those were their complaints and that was fine (that Venture Beat review was an entirely different beast though). So, if you want to take issue with GT then that's fine. All i'm saying is that I don't have a problem with microtransactions if they aren't folded into the design of the game.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Has anyone ever received a Standard Model prize car in GT6?

I've yet to do that, but if this were GT5 I would have received quite a few. Apart from being a design decision, I'm not saying that's why there are fewer prize cars, but there are differences between the two games.

 

[PedroLumpy]

I think it has more to do with the fact that alot of people noticed MT's in games already for years. So this isn't a new trend, people will call it a problem if they start negatively changing the gameplay or structure. For GT6 it is kind of hard to tell if it is negative because they changed around alot of things. For a car collector that wants to get every kind of car under the sun, GT5 was a bit better because they awarded many cars, even if the cars weren't worth much or appealing to most players.

GT6 removed restrictions on purchases (levels) so once you have enough credits you can purchase any car. That added to the fact that the game just seems easier, faster to enter and complete a race, easier to gold without needing to upgrade vehicle to insane levels and the star based system for race progression, just provides a different progression system that feels "faster". The only downside is for people who want to collect every car in the game and people who are really bad at racing.

The thing that has stood out to me ever since I noticed MT's in games, is that most of them, have not changed the progression or leveling mechanic. Most importantly, a majority of them don't need too. The way games are designed, they need to put that grind there as a hook. All games have them, the only questions are is it an enjoyable ride, is it excessive, does it feel like a chore.

Thankfully most examples of games that have had them over the years simply didn't seem like they were pushing you to spend money on them. Could be a setup, you guys maybe right. But for now, the sheer fact that they exist as an option for those that may not have enough time or are simply lazy, I don't find as evil. The moment when a game seems like it cease to be fun and starts to look like a chore they will lose me as a customer. I already spend an excessive amount of time on games in general without one of them trying to consume my life. I refuse to pay for MT. I don't think they should be needed to complete a game.

The bolded is basically impossible to know for sure.

And this all can be summed up as 'Well, best case scenario, it's not making things worse.'

Because that is the way it has always been. gamers like to feel rewarded for time, effort, and skill. Leveling/ranking up in games allow for that type of a system to happen. If you are skillful it will happen faster, especially in cases of shooters. If you are not skilled all you have to do is be patient.

If MP games didn't have them they would all be leaderboard based and more people will simply hop to the next game that has MP rather than to stick around a particular title.

It has not always been like this. Progression based on time investment only needs to reward cosmetic effects. Weapons perks etc. do not need to be a part of that.

 

[Steroyd]

Well as long as it's better than forza all is right with the world!

The thing is it's a better implementation then how a alot of other games do it across the board, is it's existence shit? Yes. Is it trying to seep into my conscious thought process while I'm playing the game? No.

My line with MTs/DLC is whether it's for items or whether it's currency. I don't like any of it, but playing AC4 and seeing I can unlock better swords and shit for $5 or whatever... fine. It's stupid, but I can deal with it.


When a game is built around currency, be it GT6/Forza/FIFA Ultimate Team/NBA 2k14... that's when the entire game gets fucked. And if it doesn't get fucked this time... if, indeed, GT6 never ever has any changes because of the MTs and somehow you never even go up against anyone online who bought MTs (and we ignore that car gifting is now gone)... it has gotten AN AWFUL LOT OF YOU comfortable with MTs being in the game. So when GT7 comes out and car renting is gone... eh, whatevs. I love GT! And GT8 comes out and the cost of the cars double... oh shit, these MTs are killing gaming!


Or I'm "paranoid." Because companies don't have a track record of pulling bullshit like this.

And I love how you assume someone like me who is fine with GT6 won't be picking up pitchforks if they fuck up GT7, I made some examples of all the shit that happens in games over the years in my previous post, you say that selling a better $5 sword annoys you but you deal with it anyway, sorry man but it sounds like you're already comfortable to the bullshit monetization you'd boycott GT6 to a potential GT7 for.

 

[staticneuron]

Has anyone ever received a Standard Model prize car in GT6?

I've yet to do that, but if this were GT5 I would have received quite a few. Apart from being a design decision, I'm not saying that's why there are fewer prize cars, but there are differences between the two games.

No apparently according to GTplanet all the cars are premium. I tend to believe it because every car I have won so far seems to be premium as well.

The bolded is basically impossible to know for sure.

And this all can be summed up as 'Well, best case scenario, it's not making things worse.'

It isn't impossible unless it is a new franchise. If it is not you can almost certainly go back to a point in the franchise history when shortcuts were NOT available or an option then compare.

It has not always been like this. Progression based on time investment only needs to reward cosmetic effects. Weapons perks etc. do not need to be a part of that.

Of course it has, outside of a few franchises, most progression based MP titles award you with different weapons/attachments when you rank higher. Some awarded skills or skill points that made you more versatile on field.

Shooters are a big example of this. The thing about shooters though, a bullet to the head is a bullet to the head. So better weapons may mean slightly more stopping/killing power when winging an individual but the rest is simply down to preference.

Anyhoo if there was not any incentive other than cosmetic reasons, gamers like me would simply question why we continue to play this game and move on. I wouldn't be surprised if many people preferred this progression system and to make it cosmetic only would eat away at the MP base of some franchises.

 

[famousmortimer]

And I love how you assume someone like me who is fine with GT6 won't be picking up pitchforks if they fuck up GT7, I made some examples of all the shit that happens in games over the years in my previous post, you say that selling a better $5 sword annoys you but you deal with it anyway, sorry man but it sounds like you're already comfortable to the bullshit monetization you'd boycott GT6 to a potential GT7 for.

Firstly... no, I do assume that pitchforks will be raised. But it will be too late. The longer we wait to make companies aware that it's unacceptable the harder it will be to reverse.


Secondly... a $5 sword is stupid and I hate it - but there is a stark difference between paying for items and paying for currency. The entire game is built around currency. The point of every single goddamn race is to earn currency! It's omnipresent. I'm not excusing $5 swords, but this shit is not even remotely on the same level. That's like saying paying $10 for Tiny Tina in borderlands 2 is the same as paying $3 for a pallette swap in Street Fighter 3 because they are both "DLC." No... there are differences. Currency is a much, much, bigger deal.

If someone is even more hardcore than me and won't play the game with the $5 sword available - more power to them. I won't argue with them. I won't post "but the game is balanced with it being available" because you know what... I DON'T WANT IT THERE! But it's a level of bullshit i'm willing to put up with. Currency systems are something i am not.

Many of you are. That's fine. Just remember that you were ok with it as it creeps in deeper and deeper.

 

[commedieu]

Whats gets me most about this, commedieu, is that I'm more than willing to part with my money for more content. I love some quality DLC. Even for visual customizations.

I'm pretty sure I bought all the DLC on offer with GT5. Most of it at least.

I just don't want to feel like I'm getting oh so subtly fleeced or that I'm losing capabilities so that player X over there feels compelled to break out the credit card out of annoyance or feeling rushed.

As always there's a much better middle-ground than whats being staked out here. But that requires delivering value, and why do that when you can deliver something as ethereal as XP? And hey, double XP if you pre-ordered. And double XP if you play the DLC playlists or the events with DLC cars.

DLC that makes sense is fine, I do think theres a difference between that and basing a game around the hopes that you will buy the DLC, you have to make it appealing to the gamer some how, and I feel that this will always result in the design/progress being compromised because of it. The middle ground is where we need to get to, sure MT's have been around. But thats no reason to say their trajectory is any good.

Good points sir/ma`am/person.

 

[PedroLumpy]

It isn't impossible unless it is a new franchise. If it is not you can almost certainly go back to a point in the franchise history when shortcuts were NOT available or an option then compare.

You can never be sure what that progression curve really would have been if microtransactions weren't a part of it. And again, this is basically 'Well it may not make things worse' defense. Does it not concern you that you haven't mentioned a reason why these microtransactions improve the experience?

Of course it has, outside of a few franchises, most progression based MP titles award you with different weapons/attachments when you rank higher. Some awarded skills or skill points that made you more versatile on field.

Shooters are a big example of this. The thing about shooters though, a bullet to the head is a bullet to the head. So better weapons may mean slightly more stopping/killing power when winging an individual but the rest is simply down to preference.

Exactly. They do provide an advantage. And you seriously don't know about all the previous games that didn't have progression mechanics?

Anyhoo if there was not any incentive other than cosmetic reasons, gamers like me would simply question why we continue to play this game and move on. I wouldn't be surprised if many people preferred this progression system and to make it cosmetic only would eat away at the MP base of some franchises.

You really really should.

 

[Megasoum]

I notice a defensiveness between people who dont want bad things said about GT6 and the rest of the world who thinks that MTs, even when they aren't in your face, AREN'T A FUCKING GOOD THING.

I also notice a lot of people who loves to bitch on the internet and who will latch to any possible seed of controversy that starts to grows on the Internet and that will give them an opportunity to bitch at "the man".

 

[staticneuron]

You can never be sure what that progression curve really would have been if microtransactions weren't a part of it. And again, this is basically 'Well it may not make things worse' defense. Does it not concern you that you haven't mentioned a reason why these microtransactions improve the experience?

Because these microtransactions only have one purpose. And that purpose doesn't affect me negatively or positively. It is simply ignored.

It is like the color blind option, or subtitles for the hearing impaired. I don't question how those things improve the game for "me" but i understand they are there for other people and it doesn't bother me in the least.

If the progression curve is exactly like the game before..... then what would make you think MT's have "anything" to do with it. If any game company were trying to sell MT as a viable option, they would make it worse.

The reason why it wouldn't be faster is simply because of the investment vs time metric, which can be tracked. The reason it is best for it to remain the same or similar if people were ok with it, is to not anger the base that has come to expect a progression. You may only get one chance to pull the wool over consumers eyes so most are smart enough not to pull wild changes like that.

You really really should.

I do. That is why I don't play MP on games whose only advancement options are cosmetic.

 

[famousmortimer]

I also notice a lot of people who loves to bitch on the internet and who will latch to any possible seed of controversy that starts to grows on the Internet and that will give them an opportunity to bitch at "the man".

I don't like DRM and MTs in the form of currency and now I'm just latching onto any possible seed of controversy and bitching at the man?

If that's what you think - that sucks, as I thought we were friendly - but to me it seems like those two things are somewhat worthy of bitching at...

 

[Gestault]

"Time-saver pack" microtransactions prove to me that the company that makes a game thinks its a waste of time to play it, at which point I agree with them.

 

[turnbuckle]

I also notice a lot of people who loves to bitch on the internet and who will latch to any possible seed of controversy that starts to grows on the Internet and that will give them an opportunity to bitch at "the man".

sounds like you're bitching. good on you to take the opportunity to bitch on the internet about people bitching on the internet

 

[NullPointer]

Anyhoo if there was not any incentive other than cosmetic reasons, gamers like me would simply question why we continue to play this game and move on.

 

[Megasoum]

I don't like DRM and MTs in the form of currency and now I'm just latching onto any possible seed of controversy and bitching at the man?

If that's what you think - that sucks, as I thought we were friendly - but to me it seems like those two things are somewhat worthy of bitching at...

Bah, wasn't talking about you specifically, sorry it sounded like that.

I'm just talking about the general mood around here lately.

Overall I'm never really a fan of MT however I'm not necessarly automatically against them.

Of course some games try to push their luck too far (ie: FM5) and that most definitly sucks, no question there. However, being outraged over GT6 is ridiculous imo. The game uses the most innofensive kind of MT possible and that's the kind of stuff that's been in TON of games for like 5 years now. Why the outrage everywhere all of a sudden?

Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm 100% sure that if FM5 didn't came out 2 weeks ago and shit on all its fans like they did then the whole GT6 MT stuff would be a non issue that nobody would be talking about here.

I think this whole thing is a storm in a teacup that gain force because of the timing Vs the Forza release.

 

[famousmortimer]

Contrary to popular belief I don't actually enjoy being upset with games. I enjoy playing them.

I was about to give up on this whole microtransaction thing a few days ago... not because of the companies, but because so many consumers - even here - are totally fine with it. It's like trying to fight gravity.


There's been a bit more resistance over the last few days so I still held out some hope. But nahhhhhhh, some people care, and hats off to you guys, but I just don't have the energy to fight something that most people don't give a shit about.


Microtransactions are the future because we keep saying microtransactions are the future. I'm tired of being mad at it. I will join the rest of you in "ill just pretend it isn't fucking my games up."

 

[Steroyd]

Firstly... no, I do assume that pitchforks will be raised. But it will be too late. The longer we wait to make companies aware that it's unacceptable the harder it will be to reverse.

And I'm saying it's too late already to out and out "reverse" a future that's already gone to past, in app purchases and MT's have been here for a while, should have made a stand earlier if you wanted to take this out by the root.

Not that you shouldn't make your voice heard but it's more damage limitation and drawing a line in the sand at this point given how much the online store is integral to nearly every game out there.

Secondly... a $5 sword is stupid and I hate it - but there is a stark difference between paying for items and paying for currency. The entire game is built around currency. The point of every single goddamn race is to earn currency! It's omnipresent. I'm not excusing $5 swords, but this shit is not even remotely on the same level. That's like saying paying $10 for Tiny Tina in borderlands 2 is the same as paying $3 for a pallette swap in Street Fighter 3 because they are both "DLC." No... there are differences. Currency is a much, much, bigger deal.

I see the same shit dressed differently $5 car worth of credits vs a $5 sword, both can be bought in-game just by playing (unless you're telling me the sword can't be bought in-game which is worse).

If someone is even more hardcore than me and won't play the game with the $5 sword available - more power to them. I won't argue with them. I won't post "but the game is balanced with it being available" because you know what... I DON'T WANT IT THERE! But it's a level of bullshit i'm willing to put up with. Currency systems are something i am not.

Many of you are. That's fine. Just remember that you were ok with it as it creeps in deeper and deeper.

And what if the unobtrusive MT's stay unobtrusive in it's current form right now? You'd be missing out on a franchise you like because you're concerned of what it could be not for what it is or has become.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Because these microtransactions only have one purpose. And that purpose doesn't affect me negatively or positively. It is simply ignored.

I think even you would admit microtransactions can affect you negatively. Maybe not GT6, but there are plenty of examples. So consider this, a games adds a feature that has a 50% chance of punching you in the balls when you purchase the game. Would you be mad that the feature exists at all? Or only mad when it punches you in the balls?

I do. That is why I don't play MP on games whose only advancement options are cosmetic.

So the part of the MP game that really does it for you is filling XP bars and being gimped?

 

[staticneuron]

Confused? If I am done with a storyline of a game and I chose to pick up MP for a short while the only thing that would keep me playing is a sense of progression. A goal i can work towards. Maybe a fave weapon in a shooter, or a nifty skillset to unlock. If not... I have 4 consoles and a PC in which take up my time and I can always move to something else.

Sense of accomplishment. Yep, on of those crazy people that like the Demon/Dark Souls games and RPG's, I like the idea of making my character better.

I think even you would admit microtransactions can affect you negatively. Maybe not GT6, but there are plenty of examples. So consider this, if games added a feature that had a 50% chance of punching you in the balls when you purchased the game. Would you be mad that the feature exists at all? Or only mad when it punches you in the balls?

No need to jump through mental hoops on this one. I am not saying all MT are good, I am just pointing out ones that can be ignored.

I would not purchase any game that has a chance in harming me or my experience. So I would avoid that game. But I wouldn't say that it should never exist. Some people might like that stuff.

So the part of the MP game that really does it for you is filling XP bars and being gimped?

Humorous. But just because you have the ability to get better items/weapons/perks doesn't automatically imply that the starting point is useless. If you every played most online shooter at a later stage you would see pretty clear examples of that.

 

[otapnam]

Confused? If I am done with a storyline of a game and I chose to pick up MP for a short while the only thing that would keep me playing is a sense of progression. A goal i can work towards. Maybe a fave weapon in a shooter, or a nifty skillset to unlock. If not... I have 4 consoles and a PC in which take up my time and I can always move to something else.

Sense of accomplishment. Yep, on of those crazy people that like the Demon/Dark Souls games and RPG's, I like the idea of making my character better.



No need to jump through mental hoops on this one. I am not saying all MT are good, I am just pointing out ones that can be ignored.

I would not purchase any game that has a chance in harming me or my experience. So I would avoid that game. But I wouldn't say that it should never exist. Some people might like that stuff.




Humorous. But just because you have the ability to get better items./weapons/perks doesn't automatically imply that the starting point is useless. If you every played any online shooter at a later stage you would see pretty clear examples of that.

DICE has been kind to players with bf3 and bf4s starting weapons per weapon type being decently spec'd.

 

[MesserWolf]

"Time-saver pack" microtransactions prove to me that the company that makes a game thinks its a waste of time to play it, at which point I agree with them.

I completely agree with you .

So absurd to pay for a game, and then to pay to skip parts because they are boring ( and actually designed to be )

I'll save even more time and not play it at all for free