Shining Sunshine
Banned
Don't think there will be many sales 2 months before the game comes out. Even GMG wasn't that great of a "sale".
Guild Wars 2 Launch Date announced: August 28th, 2012
- Thread starter Mr. Luchador
- Start date
Don't think there will be many sales 2 months before the game comes out. Even GMG wasn't that great of a "sale".
I feel the same way, but I want to add that I hate FTP because unless you pay you feel like a second rate citizen. FTP and Subscription Chore models are both terrible (but addictive!).
I despise MMOs in general but for some reason I am super hyped for this game. I figure if I get bored with the game in a month, who cares, I'm not paying a monthly fee.
Damn you guys for bringing me back into the MMO blackhole.
Between the way the world is laid out to encourage exploration, the distinction between classes, the personal stories via race, and WvW, I find it hard to believe even the most jaded of online gamers wouldn't find enough to stay interested for more than a month, even without touching serious PvP.
I've said it before but WvW could be it's own game, it's that damn good.
Though I do have three suggestions for a couple issues I have with it.
1. When you're killing people in the heat of battle, you don't have time to loot the damn bags. So I think they should just autoloot anything that would be in the bag as long as you have inventory space and if your bags are full THEN drop the bag with loot. I know they did say they're looking into this and I hope they do something like my suggestion as it seems to be the most logical way to fix the issue.
2. When a structure is being upgraded, people will just run in and take supply making it so upgrades stall out or move at a snails pace. So I'd suggest making it so no supply can be taken while something is being built. Another similar solution is to make it so that say an upgrade takes 50 supply to finish, lock that 50 into a separate pool that can't be taken from by players and take it as soon as it is put into the pool via supply caravan.
3. This is a small suggestion and a nitpick really. Make the Badges of Honor a part of the UI like the other currencies, I hate having currency take up inventory space.
I previously had an issue with being a defender and not getting anywhere as far as XP/Kamra/Coin goes, but I think they bumped the values and made it so the Repel the enemy invaders event happens as often as it actually should. I was it in while defending Stonemist.
Here is a great read from Arenanet "is it fun?"
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
"To begin this blog post, let me pose a question: How do you measure the success of an MMO?
Historically, it’s been easy to point to success with traditional MMOs: subscription numbers were the ultimate means a company used to measure how well a game was doing, and customers typically looked at those same numbers as well to gauge the success of the game."
The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible. In other words, designers of traditional MMOs create content systems that take more time to keep people playing longer. If this is your business motivation and model so you keep getting paid, it makes sense and is an incredibly smart thing to do, and you need to support it.
When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.
But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?
If we chose fun as our main metric for tracking success, can we flip the core paradigm and make design decisions based on what we’d like to play as game players? Can we focus our time on making meaningful and impactful content, rather than filler content meant to draw out the experience? Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to? It’s how we played games while growing up. I can’t tell you how many times I played Quest for Glory; the game didn’t give me 25 daily quests I needed to log in and do—I played it multiple times because it was fun!
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
"To begin this blog post, let me pose a question: How do you measure the success of an MMO?
Historically, it’s been easy to point to success with traditional MMOs: subscription numbers were the ultimate means a company used to measure how well a game was doing, and customers typically looked at those same numbers as well to gauge the success of the game."
The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible. In other words, designers of traditional MMOs create content systems that take more time to keep people playing longer. If this is your business motivation and model so you keep getting paid, it makes sense and is an incredibly smart thing to do, and you need to support it.
When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.
But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?
If we chose fun as our main metric for tracking success, can we flip the core paradigm and make design decisions based on what we’d like to play as game players? Can we focus our time on making meaningful and impactful content, rather than filler content meant to draw out the experience? Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to? It’s how we played games while growing up. I can’t tell you how many times I played Quest for Glory; the game didn’t give me 25 daily quests I needed to log in and do—I played it multiple times because it was fun!
codemonkey
Member
After having played the last two Beta Weekend Events, I'm apparently pretty alone in not being particularly excited about this game anymore. I participated in the very first closed beta, and had decent fun then, but gradually lost interest playing the following two betas or so. Something about the skills being weapon-bound, the constant level adjustment to lower levels, and the quest system (though some of the dynamic quests are fun) rub me the wrong way. I really struggled getting motivated about my level 20 mesmer by the end of the first Beta Weekend Event.
Nevertheless I'm happy that there's finally a release date on the horizon. I definitely plan to give the game another chance when it's out for good. Maybe it's my fault. Maybe I'm the one not getting it. But I can't quite hop on the hype train.
Nevertheless I'm happy that there's finally a release date on the horizon. I definitely plan to give the game another chance when it's out for good. Maybe it's my fault. Maybe I'm the one not getting it. But I can't quite hop on the hype train.
That's funny since that's the exact reasons why people like this game.
codemonkey
Member
Yeah, it really seems like I'm the problem here. Don't get me wrong, I definitely plan on playing some more when it's out, it's just, the first impression after these beta events weren't what I thought they would be. For me, anyway. Oh well, guess I can always try some more next beta weekend.
You try PvP and WvWvW?
A Black Falcon
Member
People like the skills being weapon-bound, seriously? Who, and why?
Errr... me and because it makes almost every weapon skill awesome, and allows you to have more skills equipped at a time than in GW1 due to weapon switching.
Raises the skill cap and causes diversity. Weapon switching causes for some neat mechanics. Ran outta cooldowns on your weapons? SWAP. Need some ranged? SWAP! Need healing/buffing instead of dps? SWAP.
A Black Falcon
Member
Want a game where you actually have to make choices and design builds?
Haha, no. As if! Go back to the original Guild Wars.
More skills available at once, but there are two major costs to that. First, you have extremely, extremely limited choice. Choice is almost gone in this game; you just choose which preset batch of skills you want to use, with no options or real player skill required (except for those four skills on the right, those you do actually have to choose... but the number of choices is quite limited.). The second problem is that having to deal with a limited number of skills is basically the whole core point of the Guild Wars combat system. It's a collectible card game inspired design, and how much fun would one of those be if you could take the whole set with you to play with? They're stripping out a lot of what made the first game so great by simplifying the skill system so much.
I do and everyone else who likes the game. We get it, you don't like it because it's not GW1 and that's fine. There's no point to come into a GW2 thread and ask people why they like the mechanics of the game, you're not going to convince anyone who likes it to stop liking it. The game will not change from a fundamental design standpoint.
A Black Falcon
Member
Of all the things I dislike about GW2, the new skill system is perhaps the very worst. By tearing apart the strategic basis of Guild Wars' skill system, and removing most of the complexity and depth in favor of simplicity, they make the game a whole lot less fun to play. There's little fun in simply choosing a preset skillset. The whole point should be to actually have to think and make it yourself. Dumbed down is not better!
Anyway, while I imagine weapon switching isn't going away, being able to actually customize your own skillbars certainly isn't something that would ruin the fundamental design of the game. More like it'd make it better.
Strong disagreement. Just like with the tiered traits, forcing you into sets of weapons forces you to actually play BETTER and learn the nuances even in areas you'd rather not. It balances the skills against each other better. You're not balancing 300 skills vs 300 skills, but instead sets of 5 weapon skills against other sets of 5, then you've got 5 MORE skills on top of that. Then TRAITS on top of that.
I'll never understand people who genuinely don't realize that more freedom often means LESS diversity. It's easier to break systems that are more open, and once it's broken you need to play a certain way to keep up with the joneses. Yeah, there'll be strong builds and weak builds regardless, but if the playable builds are still 5 times as numerous (say, 10 viable builds per class instead of 2), you've effectively added 5 times the diversity to the game, despite having 1/10th the initial freedom.
People can shit on me for citing wow until they're blue in the face, but there's a reason they've ditched Talent Trees 8 years after the fact: Because through COUNTLESS iterations it always comes back to the one indellible truth: You give people the illusion of choice, but all you're really doing is forcing them to either conform or be bad. Two very talented and different development studios don't arrive at conclusions like this by happenstance, they arrive at them because they're true.
I would dare say that GW2 is almost as "complex" as GW1 regarding builds, you just dont "have to" spend as much time creating a build since all of them are viable.
So somebody who does not care all that much can just go in sPvP with the standard build and do pretty well if he knows how to play.
If you want to max, your dps, cc, healing or whatever tho you will have to spend quite some time creating that build:
-deciding your first 5 skills with your wapons (x2 or more depending on your class)
-deciding your last 5 skills freely (like in GW1)
-spending your trait poinst which determine your basic stats as well as give you special "perks" which if well choosen make your skills (wapon and/or free) A LOT more powerfull.
After you finish those you still have to
-choose your equipment (this contains your gear, sigils, amuletts, etc.)
which will have quite an effect on your stats and/or the effects of your attacks/spells.
How complex of a system do you want if this is not sufficient enoug for you?
In my eyes GW1 was different but neither more "diverse" nor better.
When taking into account that the skill cap in GW2 will be much bigger due to the basic gameplay I can determent the winner from a "competitieve-play standpoint" from miles away.
(and its more fun as well, in PvP and PvE imo)
Personally, I'm quite happy with the direction GW2 has taken with it's skill system. Having played GW1 makes me appreciate it even more.
For me at least, GW1 had evolved into some crazy science with it's skill system, the variety in all the skills you had in your disposal meant that your effectiveness as a player ranged from completely useless to god-like. This, combined with the fact that you couldn't change your equipped skills while on a mission, meant that if you chose your skillset poorly, you'd be stuck with it for a while.
Couple this with the fact that some missions were nigh-impossible to complete unless you brought a "correct" skillset with you, it generated a lot of trial and error-type gameplay, and in later parts of the game, a lot of frustration as well.
I really had to delve into the popular "Discordway" builds while doing War in Kryta, because, well, that stuff is just insanely difficult and crushing, even if you could play your class well enough.
Now, in GW2, I really like that you have your basic weapon skills and you can do basic content well enough just by mastering your weapon(s) and finding a skill setup that suits you well. If you can use those 5 skills, you're already doing great.
This provides a natural stepping board for you to experiment with your other utility skills, find the ones you like, and then begin shaping your traits to support those skills you like.
For me at least, GW1 had evolved into some crazy science with it's skill system, the variety in all the skills you had in your disposal meant that your effectiveness as a player ranged from completely useless to god-like. This, combined with the fact that you couldn't change your equipped skills while on a mission, meant that if you chose your skillset poorly, you'd be stuck with it for a while.
Couple this with the fact that some missions were nigh-impossible to complete unless you brought a "correct" skillset with you, it generated a lot of trial and error-type gameplay, and in later parts of the game, a lot of frustration as well.
I really had to delve into the popular "Discordway" builds while doing War in Kryta, because, well, that stuff is just insanely difficult and crushing, even if you could play your class well enough.
Now, in GW2, I really like that you have your basic weapon skills and you can do basic content well enough just by mastering your weapon(s) and finding a skill setup that suits you well. If you can use those 5 skills, you're already doing great.
This provides a natural stepping board for you to experiment with your other utility skills, find the ones you like, and then begin shaping your traits to support those skills you like.
Hmm... the good news has this thread hopping... guess it's time for a mega-post.
Longbow Warrior puts out some ranged AOE, you know. Probably not elementalist levels, but you won't be nearly as squishy and will able to handle yourself when it comes to fisticuffs.
1. Dual Shot
Shoot a pair of arrows at your foe.
2. Fan of Fire (8 sec. CD)
Fire a spread of three flaming arrows, burning foes.
3. Arcing Arrow (10 sec. CD)
Shoot a slow, arcing arrow that explodes on impact.
4. Smoldering Arrow (20 sec. CD)
Shoot an arrow that explodes on impact blinding foes.
5. Pin Down (25 sec. CD)
Fire an arrow that immobilizes the target foe.
F1. Combustive Shot (20 sec. CD)
Ignite target area, burning nearby foes. Effect increases with adrenaline level.
The burst skill also creates a fire field for combos. It's not great, but warriors do have some degree of ranged AOE. Better to rip into them with a Greatsword, but if you're on a wall or taking a breather, it's something.
Anything is better than playing a class you don't want to just because it's considered the best, optimal, or most efficient. Play what you like and let your skill make up for the supposed weakness.
Nitpicking here, I guess, but GW2 (and GW1 for that matter) doesn't really fit the "Free to play" model. There's an initial purchase price, and the cash shop has only cosmetic / fun / quality of life items, nothing that can give one player an advantage over another.
If anything, it's the "How games have always been done" model; pay for the game, play it as much as you want. As you say, it works perfectly, but it's worth noting that without subscriptions to generate cash for ANet, they live and die based on how awesome the game actually is. Not because they can guilt trip you into playing because you're subscribed and not because they dangle a fun game in front of you but require you to buy cash shop items to compete.
Yeah, I know... nitpicking.
You're welcome. To be fair though, the lack of a subscription and the moving endgame goalposts that usually come with MMOs means you really can play at your own pace. So maybe not a blackhole that sucks you in and crushes you out of existence, but definitely something with some serious gravity you can orbit around for a while.
Add a spoils chest, which appears in the town near your waypoint. Anything an enemy drops within a certain distance of you is automatically placed in it. That way, you can go pick up whatever goodies the enemy dropped later rather than having to worry about it in the middle of the fight. Items in the chest have a timer on them, so you can't use it as storage.
Absolutely agree with this. We'd be trying to desperately upgrade a tower we just captured, in anticipation of a retaliatory strike, and as soon as our supply would show up it'd be gone because stragglers would come in and plunder it. Definitely would prefer to see it prioritized; any supply that comes in automatically goes straight to the task at hand, and any left over goes to the pool.
I do. I like that once I've unlocked them, the skills will always be consistent from Level 1 to 80. It means once I get a feel for them and instinctively know which buttons to push, they become a non-issue. I don't have to look at the UI or spend time each time I level /after each patch setting everything up. It means if I need a stun NOW, it's always going to be right where it's supposed to be.
Once you get past that getting-a-feel phase, you're done with it, and you can focus entirely on the things that are fun and exciting (reading enemy telegraphs, cross-class combos, spot adds, traps, etc.) rather than the UI icons. Not saying you can't get a feel for your skill layout in other MMOs, because I did it in WoW myself... it's just that it's much faster and easier in GW2 since there's less bloat and more permanence.
Dude, we've heard this song from you before. GW2 is not GW1. Sorry. I know it sucks to see something you love changed or left behind, but this is the direction ArenaNet wanted to go in. Not just as a sequel, but as part of the Guild Wars franchise (remember everything they wanted to do in GW2, they originally wanted to add into GW1 but couldn't).
It sucks, I know. But it seems like you pop into these threads to crap on the game because it's not "Guild Wars 1.5".
Time spent using skills in combat > time spent picking skills. Instead of spending all of your time sitting in town thinking about a hundred different skills or builds, you spend all of your time using pre-set skills in a hundred different situations and scenarios in actual combat. I don't think it's dumbed down, it just means ANet wants you to get better by using the skills you have in combat rather than constantly tinkering with them outside of it.
Longbow Warrior puts out some ranged AOE, you know. Probably not elementalist levels, but you won't be nearly as squishy and will able to handle yourself when it comes to fisticuffs.
1. Dual Shot
Shoot a pair of arrows at your foe.
2. Fan of Fire (8 sec. CD)
Fire a spread of three flaming arrows, burning foes.
3. Arcing Arrow (10 sec. CD)
Shoot a slow, arcing arrow that explodes on impact.
4. Smoldering Arrow (20 sec. CD)
Shoot an arrow that explodes on impact blinding foes.
5. Pin Down (25 sec. CD)
Fire an arrow that immobilizes the target foe.
F1. Combustive Shot (20 sec. CD)
Ignite target area, burning nearby foes. Effect increases with adrenaline level.
The burst skill also creates a fire field for combos. It's not great, but warriors do have some degree of ranged AOE. Better to rip into them with a Greatsword, but if you're on a wall or taking a breather, it's something.
Anything is better than playing a class you don't want to just because it's considered the best, optimal, or most efficient. Play what you like and let your skill make up for the supposed weakness.
Nitpicking here, I guess, but GW2 (and GW1 for that matter) doesn't really fit the "Free to play" model. There's an initial purchase price, and the cash shop has only cosmetic / fun / quality of life items, nothing that can give one player an advantage over another.
If anything, it's the "How games have always been done" model; pay for the game, play it as much as you want. As you say, it works perfectly, but it's worth noting that without subscriptions to generate cash for ANet, they live and die based on how awesome the game actually is. Not because they can guilt trip you into playing because you're subscribed and not because they dangle a fun game in front of you but require you to buy cash shop items to compete.
Yeah, I know... nitpicking.
You're welcome. To be fair though, the lack of a subscription and the moving endgame goalposts that usually come with MMOs means you really can play at your own pace. So maybe not a blackhole that sucks you in and crushes you out of existence, but definitely something with some serious gravity you can orbit around for a while.
Add a spoils chest, which appears in the town near your waypoint. Anything an enemy drops within a certain distance of you is automatically placed in it. That way, you can go pick up whatever goodies the enemy dropped later rather than having to worry about it in the middle of the fight. Items in the chest have a timer on them, so you can't use it as storage.
Absolutely agree with this. We'd be trying to desperately upgrade a tower we just captured, in anticipation of a retaliatory strike, and as soon as our supply would show up it'd be gone because stragglers would come in and plunder it. Definitely would prefer to see it prioritized; any supply that comes in automatically goes straight to the task at hand, and any left over goes to the pool.
I do. I like that once I've unlocked them, the skills will always be consistent from Level 1 to 80. It means once I get a feel for them and instinctively know which buttons to push, they become a non-issue. I don't have to look at the UI or spend time each time I level /after each patch setting everything up. It means if I need a stun NOW, it's always going to be right where it's supposed to be.
Once you get past that getting-a-feel phase, you're done with it, and you can focus entirely on the things that are fun and exciting (reading enemy telegraphs, cross-class combos, spot adds, traps, etc.) rather than the UI icons. Not saying you can't get a feel for your skill layout in other MMOs, because I did it in WoW myself... it's just that it's much faster and easier in GW2 since there's less bloat and more permanence.
Dude, we've heard this song from you before. GW2 is not GW1. Sorry. I know it sucks to see something you love changed or left behind, but this is the direction ArenaNet wanted to go in. Not just as a sequel, but as part of the Guild Wars franchise (remember everything they wanted to do in GW2, they originally wanted to add into GW1 but couldn't).
It sucks, I know. But it seems like you pop into these threads to crap on the game because it's not "Guild Wars 1.5".
Time spent using skills in combat > time spent picking skills. Instead of spending all of your time sitting in town thinking about a hundred different skills or builds, you spend all of your time using pre-set skills in a hundred different situations and scenarios in actual combat. I don't think it's dumbed down, it just means ANet wants you to get better by using the skills you have in combat rather than constantly tinkering with them outside of it.
BrettWeir
Member
I love it. Adds dimension to leveling in the beginning. It doesn't take very long at all. During the stress test this week, I started a thief from scratch. From level 1 - 7, I learned all skills for:
- dagger/dagger
- dagger/pistol
- pistol/dagger
- pistol/pistol
- sword/pistol
- sword/dagger
- shortbow
Had a blast doing it and learned a ton about all of the skills. The only thing I didn't like, was it seemed like the last skill learned didn't live up to expectations with some weapons. IE, last shortbow skill, Infiltrator's Arrow. BUT, I didn't get much time to experiment with swapping weapons at level 7.
And thief actually feels like it could use one more weapon set (I read the "Sword/Sword" suggestion a lot).
Infiltrator's arrow, as near as I can tell, is your way to jump into combat quickly with an advantage (blinding foes). Oddly enough, according to the wiki, it has a shorter range than other methods of shadowstep. Seems like it should have the longest, but... that's what they're working on now, I guess.
Who: This guy.
Why: See after next quote...
Right. 10/31/0 means I have thoroughly researched the best build for maximum throughput. 9/31/1 makes me a complete noob and gimps me.
"Choice" is an illusion in most MMOs. Yes, you can choose, but you're gimping yourself by not choosing par for the course. Your screen might be filled with multiple routes you can take to personalize your character - but there's always a "best" build. Heck, even in WoW I've played with people who had two of the same spec - save for a few different points - just for different boss encounters. That's not letting the player make a "choice" thats...
"Cookie Cutter"
There is no "thinking" involved with making a cookie cutter build. It's a copy/paste of everyone else's build for maximum throughput, support, etc.
GW1 had these, as well. There were variants of particular builds but even with all of the skills in GW1 - you still had "Cookie Cutter" choices.
Clearly when I log in GW1 and I look at Warriors and see "W/R" next to everyone's name... is that not "cookie cutter"? If everyone actually thought for themselves when choosing a secondary as a Warrior - that means that the system was borked - clearly favoring the Ranger as a secondary for some mechanic.
Thus we have "cookie cutter" builds.
I see the weapon system as eliminating those specific builds as from my short time playing - I haven't come across a best main/offhand combo. Everything becomes situational and allows the player to make a choice based on playstyle and become effective with that playstyle rather than forcing a specific build down someone's throat.
BrettWeir
Member
Very true. Without weapon swap, the skill seemed rather useless. I just hit 7 right before the event ended, so can see where it may be useful. But yeah, the shorter range on the shortbow shadow step is rather puzzling.
**Edit: Infiltrator's Strike seems to be a way more effective use. Both having an escape tool, and with only 2 initiative cost.
BrettWeir
Member
I love it as well. Every class I played was an awesome surprise and tons of fun with the variety, until I tried an engineer. Then you get a pistol, pistol/shield or a rifle. That's it. That class really needs a lot of work before release. IMO it's really the only class that doesn't really feel all of that fun. Even the utility skills blow (especially the grenade and mines). It's the only class that feels half baked. Hopefully it see's some love because I really really wanted to play it.
Unfortunately right now you'd be better off playing a warrior with a gun.
User Name Here
Member
But you're assuming they won't add skills for each weapon later...
If you noticed, all they're really doing is categorizing skills. One of the people, or the person responsible for balancing, stated that they need to do so in order to have a better handle on balancing. Instead of being plopped on the floor for you to organize, your skills are now placed in "buckets".
Thanks bro, this shall be a day to remember.
I see them adding more weapons before they add more skills to existing weapons. Personally, I hope they dont add skills to weapons because I think it will just make for a better experience considering balancing and what not
BrettWeir
Member
My sentiments exactly. I really, really wanted to fall in love with the Engineer. Just couldn't do it. I'm all about support classes, but I couldn't figure out what in the world I was supposed to do in WvW with an Engi. No ranged DPS worth a darn, turrets aren't worthwhile (I guess healing turret in keep defense, but didn't help much with all the Ele AoE spam).
They seemed decent in sPvP, mainly due to mines, but they have seemed to been nerfed a bit.
I'm sure I need to spend more time with the class, and of course things may change between now and release.
/sad face
User Name Here
Member
I'm sure they will do so first, but my point was that (as far as I can tell and based on what they said) they're categorizing the skills.
Even if they do add skills, they'll likely relate to the playstyle associated with the weapon. I don't think they would go overboard with it and add like 50 skills to each weapon or something that could completely throw off balance.
Edit: Just realized that I might be way off about the way they're handling skills, but I still think that they at the very least, have the option of adding skills to weapons later.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
As much as I love the game, that's just wrong - there are Boosts of all kinds, and if a decent XP boost isn't an advantage (at least in terms of vertical progress, but since most horizontal things will probably be available at max level, it would be both), I wouldn't know what is
Same with the instarevive thingie, that might be very relevant come high level dungeons.And as I said in the f2p thread, I'm almost sure Arenanet will add more vital Items to the shop over time. You really can't judge that on launch day (see: Lord of the Rings F2P conversion, they had only nice-to-have-stuff in there too and recently began to rail in the first stat items and other stuff).
Vigilant Walrus
Member
1) I HATE. I HATE how people treat the right skill bar like it doesn't mean shit. you got some good choices there. Some important choices. But people don't think that shit through. They are still stuck in standard-class-dependency-mode. Somehow it has not shifted in that every class is sulf sufficent and an individuals swizz army knife. YOUR RIGHT CUSTOMIZABLE SKILL BAR IS YOUR KEY TO SURVIVING. ITS YOUR SUPPORT. YOUR UTILITY. YOUR WELL-ROUNDEDNESS. STOP SAYING YOU DON'T GOT CHOICE. STOP SAYING THAT IT'S PREFIXED LIKE THE WEAPON SKILLS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. Please. Pretty please.
2) Just like with the WoW Mists of Pandaria talent trees - You didn't have much choice anyway. it was all min/max theorycrafting bullshit. and it was always reduced to numbers and now what skills looked cool, felt great. It was always about reading the skill descriptions insteading of looking at the animations you pulled off. looking at the actual game.
I would rather have what GW2 has than those endlessly duplicated looks-feels-acts the same small variational skills of GW1. I LOVED GW1. And I loved collecting skills. But that was just it. It was nice not having 200 icons on your screen, but the truly fun thing was collecting them. And now we have more and better things to collect.
3) Stop putting complexity on the pedestal. The art has always been making the complex simple. Now you got lesser skills, two more spaces(10 vs 8) and you end up with 5 customizeable slots. its more simple but you still are making choices. you also have different kind of complexity. buff bonuses that are aligned depending on combos, the whole action aspect, the dodge bar...
GW2 needs more choice going forward. Thief needs another weapon set. Sure. We all know it. Engineer, sure. Or at least a better "feel" on some of kits. But in the grand scheme of things they are starting out great. GW2 is not over ambitious. They are going to add more. But what we have now is a good start. Horizontal growth. Let it happen. cut of the carrot. leave it at the wayside.
I have read many places how ANet is working on the Engineer. So they seem to know it needs some help. That said, it is fun as hell.
Engineers live and die by their kits, and since they added Skill tiers a lot of that is lost very early on. You don't get access to cool stuff like the Flamethrower early anymore, so you're forced to make do with stuff like grenades and turrets (which, I will agree, are pretty ho-hum). I'm not saying the class is perfect, but I would say that, more than any class, Engineers are defined by their Utility skills. They were a blast in BWE1, but in BWE2 they definitely lacked 'oomph' just because all the cool kits were behind tier barriers.
Maybe ArenaNet needs to give them a Utility slot earlier than other classes, so players can get their heads around that. But yeah, Engineers and Mesmers need a lot of work. Thieves need another weapon set, Guardians need some work too. Too many skills where you're charging stuff up or standing around. Mace is a poor choice for the starting weapon too.
As much as I love the game, that's just wrong - there are Boosts of all kinds, and if a decent XP boost isn't an advantage (at least in terms of vertical progress, but since most horizontal things will probably be available at max level, it would be both), I wouldn't know what is
And as I said in the f2p thread, I'm almost sure Arenanet will add more vital Items to the shop over time. You really can't judge that on launch day (see: Lord of the Rings F2P conversion, they had only nice-to-have-stuff in there too and recently began to rail in the first stat items and other stuff).
Considering you're auto-leveled to 80 for WvW and PVP, and de-leveled for content in PVE, an XP Boost only lets you blow through content faster, which actually seems counter productive. Why would anyone want to rush to max level?
The instant revive thing, I do agree is pretty terrible. I keep hoping it will be cut, but in all honesty since it can't be used in PVP it's only really there if you can't be bothered to make the 30 second trip from the Waypoint. In fact, I seem to remember reading that dungeons have checkpoints in them.
I hope they don't add stat items for a while, but if they do, the fact that gems and gold are interchangeable means you don't actually have to pay real money for anything. I think that right there breaks the whole "F2P" and "Pay to win" arguments because any cash shop item can also be purchased with in-game gold. Players just have a choice when it comes to deciding how much money their time and enjoyment of the game is worth.
I liked their line in the Forbes interview yesterday;
When you pair that with the globe texture somebody datamined;
I dunno... the use of the word "genesis" makes me giddy with anticipation of the world they're potentially going to create. Most of us have only played up to level 30 or so, and with only three of 5 races.
Tip of the iceberg, folks. The best is yet to come.
And now we have a launch date.
Hype Get.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Every day
Its a gettin closer
Going faster then a rollercoaster
Its a gettin closer
Going faster then a rollercoaster
Do you want GW2 to be a "pay 2 win" game then? I would really hate the game if it turned into that. We're already paying for the game so it's not really free to play anyway.
That said, I do hope that Anet is keeping it like this and don't change the system.
FFS, the MMO with the greatest number of potential builds ever was UO. Guess what? Most people ran flavor of the month builds based on templates created by min-maxing geniuses. If you didn't, you died - and dying in UO fucking mattered.
The one time I ever created a custom build, it was nerfed to hell within three weeks because it was so overpowered. After that, I didn't waste my time and just went with the templates. And it was boring compare to coming up with my own, but there was no way to balance what I was doing - you either let it be or gutted it. 'Nerf' isn't a strong enough word for what they did to it.
Anyway, I like the skills system; I think it takes one side of the equation out of the way and lets you focus on mastering positioning and awareness. Frankly it's fun and I don't feel any of this dumbed down crap.
EDIT @ Negaiido: that's not what he is saying. He's just stating what the game is doing, not defending or attacking it one way or other.
The one time I ever created a custom build, it was nerfed to hell within three weeks because it was so overpowered. After that, I didn't waste my time and just went with the templates. And it was boring compare to coming up with my own, but there was no way to balance what I was doing - you either let it be or gutted it. 'Nerf' isn't a strong enough word for what they did to it.
Anyway, I like the skills system; I think it takes one side of the equation out of the way and lets you focus on mastering positioning and awareness. Frankly it's fun and I don't feel any of this dumbed down crap.
EDIT @ Negaiido: that's not what he is saying. He's just stating what the game is doing, not defending or attacking it one way or other.
Hmmm? How do you get "I want it to be Pay 2 win" from my post? GW2 has the initial purchase (thus, it is not Free To Play) and all of the items you spend real money on have no impact on game play beyond cosmetics, toys and 'convenience' items (thus, it is not Pay to Win).
Maybe you misread it, but we do at least agree that the approach they're taking works and we don't want them to change it.
From the FAQ:
So I would guess that the clock doesn't start until the Launch (the 28th), not the headstart (the 25th). Either way, you have time to pick it up. Just man up, grab a shower to wash the four days of stank off, put your sunglasses on to avoid being blinded by the harsh, harsh sun, and go get your box with the code inside. Use the trip to swing by the store to restock your dwindling Mountain Dew and Funyun supplies, then get home and get right back at it.
At least, that's my plan.
build diversity is great for folk that want the exact playstyle they like and are mostly going to be pve (or don't mind so much if they lose in pvp it *is* sad to see how structured your weapons skills are (when i was looking at skills a while back it seemed that most utility skills had really long cooldowns that will prevent them from being the basis of your combat style).
still probably starting with a thief, since i'm intrigued by initiative (and hate cooldowns in-general). being generally quick and mobile just seems like a fun playstyle in an actioney game. also tempted by elementalist due to likely high skill ceiling and just general large number of options. staying clear of pet classes (ew... ai companions) as i always end up hating that kind of gameplay. i don't have a good read on how engineer or mesmer will likely play, but i'm keeping my eye on guardian, since they seem to have some of the best environmental control skills.
fingers crossed for good times ahead.
it *is* sad to see how structured your weapons skills are (when i was looking at skills a while back it seemed that most utility skills had really long cooldowns that will prevent them from being the basis of your combat style).still probably starting with a thief, since i'm intrigued by initiative (and hate cooldowns in-general). being generally quick and mobile just seems like a fun playstyle in an actioney game. also tempted by elementalist due to likely high skill ceiling and just general large number of options. staying clear of pet classes (ew... ai companions) as i always end up hating that kind of gameplay. i don't have a good read on how engineer or mesmer will likely play, but i'm keeping my eye on guardian, since they seem to have some of the best environmental control skills.
fingers crossed for good times ahead.
Complistic
Member
Right! And there you'll fine one or less than one "acceptable" build per weapon set
http://www.gwpvx.com/Category:Meta_working_general_builds
For instance
axe: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:W/any_Enduring_Axe
hammer: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:W/any_PvE_Earth_Shaker
blade: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:W/any_PvE_Hundred_Blades_Warrior
This is an attitude that only hurts the evolution of PvP. Developers should be developing for player freedom, not fighting it.
Ah right.. I've misread yours then, my apologies.
No worries, we both want the same things. And besides, you're not the first to misread my long-winded rambling mega-posts.
aramanKain
Member
Diversity in play style in GW2 is achieved more through your weapon "loadout" (sorry) before entering battle. Your traits and ultility skills will of course factor into that as well, but utility skills are also hot-swappable outside of combat. Really the only thing limiting your changing things up on the fly are your traits and even those aren't that hard to reset by going to a class trainer (or in PvP, resetting is right in the trait GUI).build diversity is great for folk that want the exact playstyle they like and are mostly going to be pve (or don't mind so much if they lose in pvp
still probably starting with a thief, since i'm intrigued by initiative (and hate cooldowns in-general). being generally quick and mobile just seems like a fun playstyle in an actioney game. also tempted by elementalist due to likely high skill ceiling and just general large number of options. staying clear of pet classes (ew... ai companions) as i always end up hating that kind of gameplay. i don't have a good read on how engineer or mesmer will likely play, but i'm keeping my eye on guardian, since they seem to have some of the best environmental control skills.
fingers crossed for good times ahead.
Don't think of the diversity in relation to the skills you have, think about it in terms of the weapons you have access to. You're not as limited as you might think.