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Guild Wars 2 |OT| Buy Once, Sub Never, Fun Forever
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ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
I have a good mixture of Precision, Power, Vitality, and Toughness and I had a full set of 53 rare yellows at level 53 and did TA, the level 50 dungeon, in story mode but could still get easily 1-2 shot if I wasn't careful. I'm sure I was much better off than if I had entered with level 45 gear but the damage output of dungeon mobs and bosses is a bit high, especially when they come at you in large numbers. One or two mobs are usually not much of a problem.
The difficulty has little to do with understanding mechanics or how to play the game as the only times I ever really died was when I stopped moving and tried to revive other players. I usually start reviving while stealthed and have the trait for extended stealth time but it's ridiculous how fast you can get focused down while trying to revive someone. The damage output of mobs in dungeons is simply incredibly high in comparison to anything you face outside of dungeons, short of a group event boss.
CM and TA story mode are laughably easy compared to AC. I kind of cheated and read a guide for TA before entering so that probably helped but I went into CM blind and with several gear pieces below the intended level and it wasn't a problem. Maybe that's because I have a better understanding at this level of my character class and the way these dungeon encounters are designed, along with access to better traits and abilities, but AC just seems grossly imbalanced compared to the other two dungeons I have done. The progression is weird.
In addition, I dislike how punishing dungeon encounters are for players that want to melee. It's not impossible and I switch in/out of melee all the time, but dungeons are flat out 100% easier if I just run around and use my short bow the majority of the time.
yeah, we should organize an acutal WvW event, would probably be fun if we get everyone to queue at the same time.
Straits of Devastation zerg.
Its a cycle of 9 to 10 DEs. A Gold will get you 350 karma.
2 problems however.
1- there will usually be a lot of people, so on the Veteran bosses if you get to them a couple seconds late you will get a Bronze or nothing at all.
2- recently it seems people are purposely trolling the zerg by doing DEs(like the Veteran bosses) when the zerg is doing a different a DE. This messes up the cycle.
Zyrusticae
Banned
Didn't I just say I went into the lowest-level dungeon wearing level 60 rare gear... and was still getting downed REALLY FAST?
Really, though, the damage output in these dungeons (AC in particular) is just astronomically higher than anything else you're going to receive in the rest of the entire game. Something is way, WAY off about that. The bloody dragons don't hit me that hard, no champion hits me that hard (with the only exception of the fire elemental, all of whose damage is avoidable and the adds are the only real threat), it's just the dungeons! And they're only NORMAL MOBS!
These haven't been a problem for me.
Didn't know about this. This will be useful in the future.
Although the fact that I've played the game for 80 levels and have just now learned about this says something...
Can't speak for Booter but my shroomhead dude can't wear any hats, just masks.
WoW players are the least "welcoming" group of players out there period, especially when it comes to different games.
This game has things you have to learn, but it's one of the few out there that if you don't want to learn the depth of every facet, and just want to go play for some fun or to kill time, anyone can do it and in any multiple manners they want with whatever way they set their toon up.
WvW is not always player count matched, I've seen that buff numerous times now.
Dungeons are fun. It's just there are some people that are looking for the structure that is tank and spank, dps/heals watch for rings under you, and dps watch aggro meters. All while everyone watching Deadly Boss Mods vigilantly.
This game has things you have to learn, but it's one of the few out there that if you don't want to learn the depth of every facet, and just want to go play for some fun or to kill time, anyone can do it and in any multiple manners they want with whatever way they set their toon up.
WvW is not always player count matched, I've seen that buff numerous times now.
Dungeons are fun. It's just there are some people that are looking for the structure that is tank and spank, dps/heals watch for rings under you, and dps watch aggro meters. All while everyone watching Deadly Boss Mods vigilantly.
Just out of interest, was your character Lv80 at the time?
Zyrusticae
Banned
Nope, level 60. I'm no fool, thanks.
My first AC run supplied a lot of deaths to my /deaths total.
My second AC run was with two of my friends who are casual to brand new MMO players. I told them each encounter one by one over voicechat and it was a much cleaner, smoother run. Early on, they struggled and then as they adjusted, they got a lot better.
It is a difficulty spike from the rest of the game, but there is logic to the pulls and encounters. Even Explorable mode runs which gave me problems have some old logic that I wasn't used to using. The idea that there are mobs you can just bypass and probably should seems strange compared to regular MMO dungeon design.
It is like the pvp-based dungeon and raid encounters in WoW, but that's not a bad thing to me. PVP isn't pure chaos. There is a system underneath and a strategy.
My second AC run was with two of my friends who are casual to brand new MMO players. I told them each encounter one by one over voicechat and it was a much cleaner, smoother run. Early on, they struggled and then as they adjusted, they got a lot better.
It is a difficulty spike from the rest of the game, but there is logic to the pulls and encounters. Even Explorable mode runs which gave me problems have some old logic that I wasn't used to using. The idea that there are mobs you can just bypass and probably should seems strange compared to regular MMO dungeon design.
It is like the pvp-based dungeon and raid encounters in WoW, but that's not a bad thing to me. PVP isn't pure chaos. There is a system underneath and a strategy.
YES. l love this track and it kept playing in the snow zones, but I didn't know it was actually the Norn theme.
The point was to quickly get correct matchups before they switch to 2 week ones. Why shouldn't we be put up against them constantly? They're the only ones that flat out defeat us. Everytime they put us up against people lower than 4th place we destroy them.
TAKE HEED
You undertstand that with scaling even if you're higher level you should NOT have an easier time when you go back to a lowest level dungeon ?
Level 60 with 60 gear downscaled to level 30 is equal to level 30 with 30 gear still.
Since it came up more than once, I won't bother to quote.
CHAOS IS NOT THE PROBLEM. You can claim 'oh it's just like pvp' all you want, but the ultimate fact is that it's NOT like pvp. In PvP the other player has as much hp as you do (barring stat differences). In PvP the other player has access to similar spells as you do (holistically accross all classes). In PvP you can ACTUALLY predict player behavior a lot better than you can predict mob behavior half the time in this game.
Stop trying to tell everyone they need to learn how to play it in order to have fun in the dungeons, sitting there with your fingers in your ears does nobody any good. The simple fact is you can run the majority of the dungeons, try pugging them, and have more than half of your group EVERY SINGLE TIME say "this is terrible". Just because you think eating shit is super delightful, does not mean that people will continue to eat shit just because you claim it's an acquired taste. You are not some god gifted player at the game who just 'gets' it while the rest of the plebs cannot fathom how the game works. Every time someone mentions a dungeon in guild chat, all that comes up is 'yeah those suck really bad' by half the guild. We can be undefeated in WvW - tactically destroying everyone else in pvp, and still find dungeons horrifically bad. They must be super similar to pvp guys!
What about level 80s in level 80 exotics? You can't have better gear. You still die in 2 hits to many trash mob attacks. This gear scaling is a straw man argument. You can't honestly expect people to go hit up the AH and buy (current level) greens and yellows for every single slot in order to stand up to the massive challenge of....the first dungeon in the game. Gear is GOING to be underlevelled, period. Account for that in your tuning. It's not that hard.
CHAOS IS NOT THE PROBLEM. You can claim 'oh it's just like pvp' all you want, but the ultimate fact is that it's NOT like pvp. In PvP the other player has as much hp as you do (barring stat differences). In PvP the other player has access to similar spells as you do (holistically accross all classes). In PvP you can ACTUALLY predict player behavior a lot better than you can predict mob behavior half the time in this game.
Stop trying to tell everyone they need to learn how to play it in order to have fun in the dungeons, sitting there with your fingers in your ears does nobody any good. The simple fact is you can run the majority of the dungeons, try pugging them, and have more than half of your group EVERY SINGLE TIME say "this is terrible". Just because you think eating shit is super delightful, does not mean that people will continue to eat shit just because you claim it's an acquired taste. You are not some god gifted player at the game who just 'gets' it while the rest of the plebs cannot fathom how the game works. Every time someone mentions a dungeon in guild chat, all that comes up is 'yeah those suck really bad' by half the guild. We can be undefeated in WvW - tactically destroying everyone else in pvp, and still find dungeons horrifically bad. They must be super similar to pvp guys!
What about level 80s in level 80 exotics? You can't have better gear. You still die in 2 hits to many trash mob attacks. This gear scaling is a straw man argument. You can't honestly expect people to go hit up the AH and buy (current level) greens and yellows for every single slot in order to stand up to the massive challenge of....the first dungeon in the game. Gear is GOING to be underlevelled, period. Account for that in your tuning. It's not that hard.
Zyrusticae
Banned
Yes, but it's scaled with whatever grade of gear you're wearing at the moment. Since there are no rare gear sets at level 30, I was still stronger than anyone else going in with level 30 masterwork gear.
The difference is huge when you go into even lower-level areas in exotics. Stuff goes down in a couple hits.
It's fine with JQ and ET but HoD constantly destroy us. I know it was their point to dominate WvW but constantly dominating every other server can't be that fun in the long run...
Having things to do at max level is a general rule of thumb for video games with PERSISTENT online universes. It is a benchmark of design philosophy - NOT player philosophy. Do not confuse the two since... you are making your own game. Learn to NOT blame the player, k? It's bad business. Always expect the player to compare/contrast your game with the myriad of games before it. Think of ways to inform the player on YOUR game's design and intent - which I don't think GW2 does a very good job at, IMO.
How many things you can do at max level ties directly into "what can i do at max level" - they are one in the same yet you treat them differently. Again, this is design philosophy. Seeing as how even you think they are different further reinforces the shortcomings of GW2's design intent.
Gear makes people feel powerful - people want to get amazing shit to stomp face. They want to get things that make them feel more powerful for their hard work, not just a coat of paint. If everything has the exact same difficulty curve - that leaves nothing to look forward to for lots of players. They want to feel challenged and want to be rewarded with more than some bling.
Dodging is a very BASIC combat mechanic - if people don't understand why they can't dodge all the time - then they are never going to be able to understand WHEN.
Player error or misunderstood intentions? There you go blaming the player for ANet not doing a better job of introducing the player to different mechanics in a way that is meaningful and impacts the player. Look - not dodging enough or not using the environment enough - you can only hold down CTRL so much before you need to let it go so it doesn't act as a modifier when knocking off abilities. Sub 30 gear is a testament to just how crappy the loot system is early on - you should always be getting loot near your character's range. It's a carrot on a stick - give some nice stuff to the player and tell them BETTER stuff is over here. Nobody should have to use the TP or spend ridiculous amounts of time crafting just to be ready for a dungeon at 30... 30! Not dodging is also bullshit which blames the player and not the design. FFS man - not everything is the player's fault. PLENTY of us have linked pictures showcasing how you just can't see jack shit when enemies are being attacked. The faint FAINT red AOE circles on the ground can EASILY be missed with the incredibly shitty camera that you are FORCED to deal with in dungeons thank's to tiny spaces.
Again, stop blaming the damn player for shitty design. Crappy camera and can't see shit? LOL lern2dodge! No - that's not how this works. Too many ability effects on a mob and you're going to EASILY miss that important wind-up when you need to move. Too many AOE fields from players on the ground and you can easily miss the enemy's AOE field dictated by that faint red circle. Camera being shitty just adds to that mess.
This is not rocket science - there are design faults with this game.
Oh my. Seriously? "smart thinking"? People aren't idiots so stop treating them like idiots. If there's only 1 way to go throught this TINY fucking hallway where my camera will be jacked and we're all clumped together and there's no way to fuck with enemy AI using the environment or they won't pull back to this larger room since Rytlock decided to run in and fight them right where they stand (stupid AI) - then I'm going to have a much more difficult time knowing when to dodge/get the fuck out of the way, do X ability, etc.
Is that the player's fault for the camera being fucked and a space where you are intentionally crammed up? I had Rytlock do some stupid ass shit in AC when I went through that was no fault of the player since he is AI controlled. We wanted to pull a pack to a larger room and Rytlock wouldn't have it.
Also, getting one shot due to "they unerringly stand right in front of enemies" - ahhh - so melee shouldn't play melee - also - you can be standing BEHIND the mob and have that mob just flip around and go to town without warning - since there isn't really a straight-forward aggro system - it's hard to tell when who will be targeted next. Let's not forget that enemies aren't set in stone with attacks - I've had them wind up an attack facing one player only to turn at the last second 180 degrees to whack me. Rolling out of the way of something that is less-than-split-second would require reaction conditioning no human being has.
What do you do then? Still blame the player? It's even worse when camera + ability effects GET IN THE WAY OF ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME.
There's a DECENT degree of difficulty in AC that gets marred by DESIGN FLAWS.
Don't confuse that shit with player error, please.
Cool, was just eliminating that possibility. Odd use of 'fool' though. Personally, I wouldn't consider a player foolish if they didn't understand (or if they simply made assumptions about) the game's method of equipment scaling under level-capped events -- it's a fairly non-standard approach that ArenaNet has taken.
Once 2 week battles begin I'm sure we'll see a more concentrated effort between the two servers to take on HoD together. That point it's 2v1, and there should be no excuse to losing. Only trouble would be late nights.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I didn't play much yesterday and feel sad inside. 
This has been a very interesting 2-3 page catchup in this thread. Lots of interesting thoughts and opinions.
This has been a very interesting 2-3 page catchup in this thread. Lots of interesting thoughts and opinions.
That is clearly ANet's fault for not introducing elements which help the player understand their design intent. A system should be intuitive enough to where a player does not have to research gear scaling on the internet to better understand how it works.
Games shouldn't hold a player's hand - but concepts like gear and scaling should be "loud and clear" to the player just by playing the game.
The Elite
BOSS
I didn't play much yesterday and feel sad inside.
This has been a very interesting 2-3 page catchup in this thread. Lots of interesting thoughts and opinions.
I haven't played at all the last couple of days due to NHL 13 but i don't feel bad at all. No monthly fee.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
No monthly fee makes me REALLY happy...I just miss the 3+ hour mumble sessions, haha. I guess I could mumble while I do other shit.
BattleMonkey
Member
It was posted, people laughed.
Complistic
Member
at least they released it after the game game out so we could all ignore it. It wasn't terrible, it just wasn't good either.
Could of been much worse, at least they didn't spend $100 million on CGI trailers *cough*BW/EA*cough*.
saveweyard
Banned
The two servers I was considering playing on, Stormbluff Isle and Henge of Denravi, are both full right now.
I guess I'll wait to see if one opens up...
I guess I'll wait to see if one opens up...
"L2P" seems to be the staple in WoW, so it can be used here too. Except, it is a different learning curve and style. Get used to it, it's action based, it's not tank and spank, you have to move at times other than when Deadly Boss Mods tells you to. It's not shit, it's challenging, like how WoW used to be (obviously in a different manner). My advice is then, to stay out of the dungeons if they're not for you. It's the style and approach they took. Can't say I like the gear scaling one bit, but that's besides the point. Eventually, just like how they did in WoW, the casuals will in fact ruin this game as well. They'll get AN to make the most difficult thing to do in the game is logging on at the same time as others.
A crappy commercial is not going to convert people that are not playing into people that are playing.
Desaan said:
Those CGI trailers probably get more people to buy the game than anything else.
It's just that in the case of SW:TOR the game itself wasnt good enough to retain them.
It doesn't excuse a commercial being total shit.
Not sure if posted. WvW rankings from Sept 1 - current:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Current-world-rankings
Also, for EuroGAF:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Current-world-rankings
Also, for EuroGAF:
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Saw this on Reddit a bit ago...HoD is really miles ahead of the rest of us. I know, it's only 179.527 "points", but compared to the spread on the rest of us? That's pretty insane.
Azzurri
Member
HoD has the Titan alliance, plus some other large guild who are not part of the alliance. My guild has like 350+ members.
HA! and people doubted me last night that we were the closest thing to competition for henge.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Who is this Titan alliance? I've heard of them before from another friend.
Azzurri
Member
I think they are a bunch of medium/large guilds who are all allied with each other. So they all join one server with their own guilds and create an alliance
Level 20 and already losing a bit of steam. The combat is getting a little stale and repetitive for me as a warrior. Furthermore, everyone always discusses that this game emphasizes multiplayer, but this point seems moot because NO ONE ever talks during dynamic events or heart quests. I always try to party up or start some conversation and i'm always met with silence.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Getting second is good advertising for transfers. Once I get my dungeon gear, I'll definitely be playing a LOT more of WvW.
Try another class. Warrior is meant to be a rather introductory class. If you like melee, try Guardian. They're cooler.
Also, instead of relying on others for hearts and events, wander around and see what you can find. That's what I did, and I was always met with huge events with lots of players. I almost never party up except with gaffers. There's really no reason to unless you're playing with friends.
Try another class. Warrior is meant to be a rather introductory class. If you like melee, try Guardian. They're cooler.
Also, instead of relying on others for hearts and events, wander around and see what you can find. That's what I did, and I was always met with huge events with lots of players. I almost never party up except with gaffers. There's really no reason to unless you're playing with friends.
Should hit 80 tonight.......on my 2nd toon.
Can I ask how much hours you've spent in total?
Not to be a prick about it afterwards, just curious to see how much time it took you to get two chars to 80.
Ingame name naoooo.
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