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Guild Wars 2 Press Beta [Prepurchase Is Live]

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There's some interesting feedback over at Reddit concerning the combat system and (current) numbers. Hopefully it's something ANet can address before the release.

The key remapping are a huge deal but i can see those just being a last addin along with other options. At least i hope. The floating animation has been a big concern of mine from the start and really hope they do something with it. After the first beta i think i read that shadows on(which most dont have because it runs bad) helps with the floatiness.

As for the skills it really seemed like the guy just stuck with one weapon the entire time and it has been said that will make it seem blring. The two posters who replied to him mentioned this as well. It also seemed he disnt optimize his skills at all when he was talking about conditions. There are so many traits for every profession involving stacking conditions and upping the damage with other skills.
 
I understand the issue with the "spam 1" too. It just seems like they removed auto attacks for an ability that is exactly the same - but you have to click it.
 
There's quite a few more points mentioned further down. Such as spells that both heal/hurt being terribly weak, boss auto-scaling to the point of one-shotting players with their default attacks, issues with dodge & collisions.

I'm not (and neither is the reddit poster) saying "it's the end of the world wah wah wah why is the game not perfect in the beta", but it's actually interesting to get some actual feedback about this stuff when everyone else is basically gushing positively about the game.
 
There's quite a few more points mentioned further down. Such as spells that both heal/hurt being terribly weak, boss auto-scaling to the point of one-shotting players with their default attacks, issues with dodge & collisions.

I'm not (and neither is the reddit poster) saying "it's the end of the world wah wah wah why is the game not perfect in the beta", but it's actually interesting to get some actual feedback about this stuff when everyone else is basically gushing positively about the game.

Yeah the more feedback the better. This beta will give them a lot more info than the last one did. Didnt really talk about the scaling and duel skill issue because both of those just seem like number issues and those will probably be tweeked constantly.

ANet has said a lot they want the heals and duel skills to be weaker but if they are so weak to the point of being useless that would be a problem, but it also could just be that the traits are set up for a different skill and could improve them though i doubt that much.
 
Having to read some of the comments over on Reddit and the stuff about bosses one-shotting people...perhaps this is a world event boss? If so, I can sort of understand. If it's a dungeon boss, probably not, unless it's on hard mode or exploration mode, whatever it's called.

I thought you'd have to use the environment to supplement your attacks, aka from TB's video, use a horn to buff your allies while using a trap mechanism.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope Anet addresses these issues in a timely way.
 
people said the same thing in the Rift beta and we still got lazy combat. Past behavior in the genre doesn't give me much hope that GW2 will bust out a more engaging combat system in the time they have left.
 
I think the 1 spamming is the very least of the worries from that thread. The other impressions in that thread all said if you are swapping weapons often you are not just waiting for cd's to come off. But old habits and all.

The guy saying dodge being useless though is way off. Dodge gives you a small invincibility window. So even though it may not be faster, you aren't getting hit while you do it.
 
I understand the issue with the "spam 1" too. It just seems like they removed auto attacks for an ability that is exactly the same - but you have to click it.

Then turn it back on.

Personally, I play to play GW2 with 1 on auto attack and focus on using positioning and proper dodging to get to where I'll have an advantage. I'll use 2-5 when available and my utility skills when necessary. I've already accepted the fact that I probably won't be hitting a button every single second during combat. It seems to me that's what some people expect to have to do, but I don't think GW2 combat was designed that way unless you manually trigger skill 1. That doesn't even take into account weapon swapping.
 
people said the same thing in the Rift beta and we still got lazy combat. Past behavior in the genre doesn't give me much hope that GW2 will bust out a more engaging combat system in the time they have left.

You're basing this on one guys opinion who, quite frankly, doesn't sound like he was using weapon swapping properly or using his skills/dodge to their full potential. The fact that he said dodge is useless is pretty much bullshit as i've seen from videos and such that this most certainly is not the case at all. It's refreshing to hear criticisms though, and i agree with some aspects such as the damage and boons from skills need to be tweaked.
 
The dodge criticism makes sense. He explains it more clearly in a later post. Essentially, he says that when you dodge, you can't be hurt, but you don't go through things either. So, when a big monster does a swipe, you might dodge it, but the swipe just continues to push you until you run out of invincibility. If that's true, seems like a developer oversight.

I don't quite agree with most of his other points, though.
 
You can definitely see the animations look less "floaty" when the shadows are on. I think at least one of TB's vids they had shadows on (his desktop is a beast) and it looked much better in motion than without them, where they seem to be floating.
 
I understand the issue with the "spam 1" too. It just seems like they removed auto attacks for an ability that is exactly the same - but you have to click it.
From what it sounds from the spamming of the 1 key, too much time is being spent with that attack. If there was an auto attack or no spam key I would have more time to strategize my other attacks, as well as have more time to utilize the dodge mechanic.
 
From what it sounds from the spamming of the 1 key, too much time is being spent with that attack. If there was an auto attack or no spam key I would have more time to strategize my other attacks, as well as have more time to utilize the dodge mechanic.

You can set your 1 key skill to auto attack. I think it's right click on the skill or something like that, it's been shown in videos and talked about.

Watching my buddy play right now. He's enjoying the hell out of it

He's playing a norn ele.

Any general impressions from seeing it? Or from your friend?
 
I understand the issue with the "spam 1" too. It just seems like they removed auto attacks for an ability that is exactly the same - but you have to click it.

This is kind of funny, when FFXIV launched it had the same problem. I guess Arenanet didn't learn any lessons from the failures of that game. Auto-attack was removed but instead you spammed the 1 key to do your auto-attack manually.

GW2 is lock-on and tab-targeting anyways, if you're going to follow that tired mechanic you might as well just leave auto-attack in there all the time rather than force people to 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 to hit things.
 
I think the 1 spamming is the very least of the worries from that thread. The other impressions in that thread all said if you are swapping weapons often you are not just waiting for cd's to come off. But old habits and all.


I think this was a design decision, from what I've read so far it seems like the game expects you to swap weapons while CDs are up, I believe the game lets you setup 2 sets of weapons to at a time too. Man this makes me really want to try this first hand just to see how it all works...
 
You can set your 1 key skill to auto attack. I think it's right click on the skill or something like that, it's been shown in videos and talked about.



Any general impressions from seeing it? Or from your friend?

Just started my charr engi. Having a blast already I honestly have no problem with the 1 spam so far. Character customization is really in depth. Dodging is taking a little bit to get used to

Edit: actually when I use my 1 attack on an enemy it automatically defaults to auto attack
 
This spam 1 attack thing makes no sense....

I thought attacks require an enemy within range (arc, aoe circle, close range, etc). Spamming 1 would work in one vs one immobile PvE AI. Otherwise you are just foolishly swining at air.
 
Jumping is my favourite activity in WoW and being able to change directions in mid air sounds really weird. No hotkey modifiers also concerns me somewhat.

EDIT: So the message I'm hearing is that PvE is boring as balls because just press buttons. I still don't know how a CD only system is better than a CD + resource + self combo system.
 
This spam 1 attack thing makes no sense....

I thought attacks require an enemy within range (arc, aoe circle, close range, etc). Spamming 1 would work in one vs one immobile PvE AI. Otherwise you are just foolishly swining at air.

I LOVE that about this game. Yes, you totally should be able to attack in the air, or hack away at whatever you want. i like to run around and make it reign fireballs with 3 other fire elementalists to create the biggest firestorm possible.
 
From everything we've seen and read, combat in GW2 is not a matter of "It's off CD, use it". Rather, the majority of the abilities have very specific mechanics or utilities built into them that are better used at opportune moments. For example, I can't see anyone realistically spamming the Guardian's wall skills just because they're off CD. Even the most damage-oriented profession (Thief) has skills that you wouldn't want to just mash because they're available.

If you're spamming abilities like "Hamstring" on a warrior (15 sec CD, causes 9 seconds of crippled condition) whenever they come up, you're missing the point. You want to inflict that condition when it benefits you, not just whenever the CD is up, because the effect is shorter than the recharge rate, making it impossible to keep that condition up at all times. Likewise, if you're using skills that knock enemies backwards, you could be knocking them out of AOEs established by other players (we've seen videos of players doing that repeatedly and it makes them look like morons).

The "1 Spam" is an issue we've known about for a while. It can be set to auto-attack on-the-fly (it was as simple as right-clicking the icon) and will automatically execute chain attacks (for example, the Warrior's sword combo "Sever Artery > Gash > Final Thrust"). I'm not sure if it's been removed, but you had the ability to assign any skill to auto-attack, not just the first. That may have changed as I can't find a more recent source for it (and I can't think of many instances where you'd want to).

I also seem to recall there being some talk of assigning the first attack to a mouse button, so instead of spamming "1", you'd be clicking to attack more like an action game. I can't find a source for this though, so some of you guys with more photographic memories (.... Jira...) can probably correct me.

We've known for a while now that the GW2 Dev team has been trying to move away from 'hit buttons' to more dynamic elements like movement and positioning. Hell, we've known that since April of 2010;

Eric Flannum said:
One of our priorities in developing Guild Wars 2 has been to make the simple act of moving around and interacting with the world an enjoyable experience for our players. We often refer to this as introducing "joy of movement" into the game. This means being able to jump and swim freely, but it also translates directly into combat.

To reinforce the importance of movement in the game, we want your character's position in combat to really matter. You'll see a lot of attacks in Guild Wars 2 that encourage and reward tactical player movement and positioning. (Source)

You can't be paying full attention to your positioning, where other players are at, enemy telegraphs, environmental hazards, etc. if you're staring at icon timers spin around. That's one of the reasons the first 5 slots are determined by your weapons; you can learn what butttons do what and how long their cooldowns are because they're static. The first five attacks on the Greatsword you find at level 1 are the same five attacks on the Greatsword you use at 80. I would guess that the goal of such an approach is that players learn instinctively what buttons do what and how long their cooldowns are.

The best players will likely be the ones who know what option to use in the right place at the right time. How many videos have we seen where the end result of spamming is death? I've lost count.

If you ask me, "MMO-vets" are the opinions we should be most critical of, as they represent years of the entrenched thinking that ANet is clearly trying to break away from. I'm not saying some random guys on Reddit are wrong, but that their opinion does not represent objective facts. It's a couple guys sharing their opinion (breaking NDA too, I might add), an opinion which veers into uncomfortably wrong I might add (they say Dodging is useless which we've seen repeatedly to be quite incorrect).

There's also the potential that this is just some guy making shit up, of course. It's not like we haven't had a ton of misinformation disseminated by fans of other MMOs already, even in this very thread. Grain of salt and all that.
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/rbhjj/burnt_out_after_a_day/

Another BETA player posts on Reddit about how he doesn't like the combat at all.

To me he just sounds like a Negative Nancy and he get overhyped about the game. I am going to hold my own judgement of the game till I actually get to play it.

What do you guys think?

My question is how far did he get into the game, what level hes reached.
We've read reports of low level areas being filled with basic sword fodder that do nothing but mindlessly attack. Higher level areas, on the other hand, are reported to offer much more of a challenge.
 
My question is how far did he get into the game, what level hes reached.
We've read reports of low level areas being filled with basic sword fodder that do nothing but mindlessly attack. Higher level areas, on the other hand, are reported to offer much more of a challenge.

Yea that's what I'm curious about as well. It makes sense for starting areas to have sword fodder so that people can quickly level up their skills to unlock more. The diversity of weapon drops is also something you'd have to look at.

Tho looking at more of the comments, it seems like this guy bought into the hype way too much and was expecting Dark Souls type combat so who knows. Hype can be a very dangerous thing it seems :/
 
problem i have that even when playing on max settings you see grass and even buildings appearing like 10ft in front of you, its horrible
 
My question is how far did he get into the game, what level hes reached.
We've read reports of low level areas being filled with basic sword fodder that do nothing but mindlessly attack. Higher level areas, on the other hand, are reported to offer much more of a challenge.

I question this as well because we've heard from killtenrats.com that 15+ starts getting serious, the first zones are more of a tutorial that eases you in. Also, we've seen 2-3+ mobs will tear you apart with ease if you're not careful. 1 v1 with a deer isn't much of a threat, 1 v 1 with say a minotaur can hurt you, but unlikely it'll kill you before you kill it unless you're horrible at the game, but 2-3+? Lol.

Also, Retro hits it spot on. When I first started playing GW1, I wasn't thinking much about my energy management, I was using skill when they came off CD and was paying for it due to not being able to interrupt when I needed to. I quickly learned that I needed to be patient and use my skills when needed. From everything we've seen on GW2 and reading the skills, it becomes painfully apparent that you need to know your skills and when to use them against 2-3+ mobs or harder mobs, dungeons, and ESPECIALLY in PvP.
 
Everything we know about the game says that those guys from reddit are wrong in their complaints about combat. We've seen plenty of instances of difficult combat that prove them wrong, such as TB's recent dungeon video, and the fact that Yogscast couldn't even finish the dungeon on its easiest mode. Let's see them complain when they reach level 30.
 
Everything we know about the game says that those guys from reddit are wrong in their complaints about combat. We've seen plenty of instances of difficult combat that prove them wrong, such as TB's recent dungeon video, and the fact that Yogscast couldn't even finish the dungeon on its easiest mode. Let's see them complain when they reach level 30.

Agreed.
 
the complaints seem to be more that optimal play is still about just hitting stuff when it's off cooldown, suggesting that waiting for the "right" opportunity isn't really worth it overall.

there really needs to be a better system for abilites in games like this than having cooldowns for everything.
 
Also, Retro hits it spot on. When I first started playing GW1, I wasn't thinking much about my energy management, I was using skill when they came off CD and was paying for it due to not being able to interrupt when I needed to. I quickly learned that I needed to be patient and use my skills when needed. From everything we've seen on GW2 and reading the skills, it becomes painfully apparent that you need to know your skills and when to use them against 2-3+ mobs or harder mobs, dungeons, and ESPECIALLY in PvP.

I feel like this is one of the major reasons they shouldn't have got rid of energy management in GW2. If these people on reddit saw their energy dropping to 0 after spamming skills it would force them to realize that they're probably playing the game wrong. Especially when they went to try and do a defensive ability, or a dodge, and couldn't due to lack of energy.

ANet needs to put some fantastic tutorials in the game for launch to let people know how combat is supposed to work.
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/rbhjj/burnt_out_after_a_day/

Another BETA player posts on Reddit about how he doesn't like the combat at all.

To me he just sounds like a Negative Nancy and he get overhyped about the game. I am going to hold my own judgement of the game till I actually get to play it.

What do you guys think?

That i will wait to play it before making an opinion about the game :V too, i don't care if some people is disappointed or the hype balloon exploded for them. Tho i must say that i would like to play the game finished and then make a opinion.

Its entertaining to see the post in reddit i must accept and seeing people being victim of the hype train.
 
There are numerous complaints about dodging at the official forums fyi. I didn't bother reading those reddit claims but testing a class that needs dodge to survive it feels like rolling a loosing dice sometimes. It's fixable, sometimes feels like its just latency doing stuff. Probably picking same class when game hits.

Combat is fluent, lower PVE is same old mmo stuff, but thats not what i'am particularly interested in.

Game isn't rocket science and those who claim its broken don't know anything.
All that NDA so better keep discussion elsewhere:)
 
Ugh. This thread went from being sensible to something else entirely since the Cash Shop was announced. Now all of these NDA-breaking leaks from anonymous people are being treated as gospel when the sources are questionable at best and the commentary runs suspiciously contrary to months or even years of information from convention floors, press events and the developers themselves.

This is kind of funny, when FFXIV launched it had the same problem. I guess Arenanet didn't learn any lessons from the failures of that game. Auto-attack was removed but instead you spammed the 1 key to do your auto-attack manually.

GW2 is lock-on and tab-targeting anyways, if you're going to follow that tired mechanic you might as well just leave auto-attack in there all the time rather than force people to 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 to hit things.

There are no less than four posts (spread out over three hours) after the one you're replying to that mention assigning skills to be used automatically. Instead of lunging for the jugular with 'failures' and 'tired mechanics', it might behoove you to notice your prey has not only moved on, it was never there in the first place.

Jumping is my favourite activity in WoW and being able to change directions in mid air sounds really weird. No hotkey modifiers also concerns me somewhat.

You don't really need hotkey modifiers because there aren't 40 skills you have to keep track of at once. There's 5 weapon skills and 5 utility skills, swap weapon, dodge. Jump if you feel like looking flashy, I guess. Not sure how being able to change direction in mid-air is anything of vital importance to combat, jumping isn't the same as dodging.

Several people in this thread have mentioned assigning the 6-0 hotkeys to Alt or Ctrl+1-5 though.

EDIT: So the message I'm hearing is that PvE is boring as balls because just press buttons. I still don't know how a CD only system is better than a CD + resource + self combo system.

It's astounding that one random guy yammering away on reddit somehow invalidates years of developer blogs, interviews, gameplay videos and convention demos.

Rather than pound through a list of all the things you need to be aware of that makes combat more than just 'press buttons', I'll just redirect you to Jira's awesome OP:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=440171

If you can read through that and still walk away with that impression, then this just isn't the game for you. Sorry. Luckily, there are lots of games already out where you will find exactly the kind of gameplay you're looking for.

My question is how far did he get into the game, what level hes reached.
We've read reports of low level areas being filled with basic sword fodder that do nothing but mindlessly attack. Higher level areas, on the other hand, are reported to offer much more of a challenge.

Yep, we've heard from multiple sources in the last press event that around level 20-25, you get destroyed pretty quickly if you haven't learned how to dodge and read enemy behavior.

problem i have that even when playing on max settings you see grass and even buildings appearing like 10ft in front of you, its horrible

It's a Beta. It is not the final game. It is not optimized. You think people would realize that "Pre-release Beta testing" means the game is not ready for release and is still being tested.

Don't watch much Yogscast do you? :P

Normally I'd be on board with this since I think they're less concerned about the game and more about being goofy, but if it's the same Yogscast video I'm thinking of in Ascalon Catacombs, they also had developers in the dungeon with him.

The latest TotalBiscuit video also had 3 devs in the group and he mentions the dungeon taking more than 4 hours to complete. That was in Exploration mode though, which is substantially harder.
 
People are trying to find fault with the game because of their ineptitudes at playing it, and that's just sad.

A buddy who is in the beta told me that dodging is absolutely necessary, and holy shit, fun.

He also said that once you get to weapon swapping, combat opens up into much much more complexity than what you had when you only had one weapon bar. Now it becomes remembering what your other skills do, swapping between bars when stuff is on cooldown, and pressing 1 when necessary (if you are at melee or ranged). It's all very situational.
 
can you see cooldowns for non-equipped weapons in the interface somewhere?

He says not currently, but you have to remember them by heart. It's not that big of a deal - most cooldowns will be up in the seconds you are between weapons anyway, so when you swap back there should be something available.
 
Oh god engineer is so complex. I jumped into a pvp match and had so many abilities I didn't know what to do with. Trying them all right now. Pvp seemed like a zerg fest but I think my team just sucked
 
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