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Guild Wars 2 Press Beta [Prepurchase Is Live]
- Thread starter Jira
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It's just amazing how much customization there is. You can sort of go the route as a shout/signet guardian with the 20% reduction in cool downs, a mixture of both or something completely different.
Arpeggio23
Member
Have you played Star Wars: The Old Republic? There are literally hundreds of lore objects and permanent stat-boosting items called "datacrons" hidden throughout the world, many of which require completing jumping puzzles to find.
I do remember datacrons but the problem I saw was that you got a VERY minor stat boost for all the jumping around you had to do. Usually there was no boss or anything special at the end, just a box that gives you a +2 to Willpower.
I have and I'm well aware of them, thing is the world Bioware built isn't exactly engaging at all. Don't get me started on the state of MMOs in general.
Here's my build, was trying to create a defender/healer type. I know the place isn't finished with the skill calculator but I decided nonetheless to give it a go.
Thoughts?
Looks like a pretty solid support spec. I really like how you're focusing on party skills rather than individual ones.
Edit: Also, I think a lot of pvpers are gonna hate you since none of your team members are gonna die if they're somewhat skilled along with your buffs/heals.
Thanks man. I've always been the healer in raids/groups/pvp so seeing the Guardian skills and what they can bring to the table has just been a treat for me.
Even though you'll be able to make a lot of players lives a lot easier, it's gonna ultimately be up to them to use tactics and dodging. You're welcome, i'd take an actual group member than a soloer any day.
My intended build based off of the little knowledge I have. Thief based on using stealth to get in and out of melee range. Mostly intended for solo ganking pvp and backdooring objectives.
I see something like this to be EXTREMELY useful in WvWvW as well because you could easily take out some of the caravans from other servers to choke their supply and gain the advantage.
BrettWeir
Member
06nbarnhill
Member
I have been playing WoW nonstop for....well....a long time. (playing as we speak even)
(Keep in mind I have not watched a lot of vids and have not delved too much into the detains of GW2...would like to save that for the actually game. Discovery is awesome.)
Thinking about trying out GW2 though I am a bit apprehensive because some of the changes sound awesome like questing structure and grouping (though I have reservations about this....these groups use to form in WoW too until everyone hit max level though it looks simpler and more intuitive in GW2). I also really like the idea of flexible builds with many viable paths though I am also skeptical that it will last long simply because of min/maxers.
I am still tepid and somewhat excited about the idea of getting rid of the holy trinity. I kind of like knowing what my role is though I appreciate that (on paper) this will make grouping far easier.
Really not excited about the unorganized (comparatively) nature of the games PvE. I like guilds, I like schedules, I like planning, all of which seem completely unnecessary from what I have heard about GW2.
The PVP and realm vs realm sounds pretty awesome.
Dodge really concerns me in this format. If used sparingly and only in certain situations. If its attack attack attack dodge dodge dodge dodge over and over its going to get really obnoxious real quick. I don't mind if you can dodge big heavy attacks....but generic ones will just be annoying.
Overall I am interested enough that i signed up for the beta and if I get in I may eventually drop WoW. However, if I don't make the beta I am not sure if I will have the motivation to switch over. The game sounds awesome and really involving...however that can be a bad thing....sometimes I like autopilot and considering the amount of hours people spend in MMO's I am a bit concerned about GW2 burnout occurring rather quickly. We will see.
(Keep in mind I have not watched a lot of vids and have not delved too much into the detains of GW2...would like to save that for the actually game. Discovery is awesome.)
Thinking about trying out GW2 though I am a bit apprehensive because some of the changes sound awesome like questing structure and grouping (though I have reservations about this....these groups use to form in WoW too until everyone hit max level though it looks simpler and more intuitive in GW2). I also really like the idea of flexible builds with many viable paths though I am also skeptical that it will last long simply because of min/maxers.
I am still tepid and somewhat excited about the idea of getting rid of the holy trinity. I kind of like knowing what my role is though I appreciate that (on paper) this will make grouping far easier.
Really not excited about the unorganized (comparatively) nature of the games PvE. I like guilds, I like schedules, I like planning, all of which seem completely unnecessary from what I have heard about GW2.
The PVP and realm vs realm sounds pretty awesome.
Dodge really concerns me in this format. If used sparingly and only in certain situations. If its attack attack attack dodge dodge dodge dodge over and over its going to get really obnoxious real quick. I don't mind if you can dodge big heavy attacks....but generic ones will just be annoying.
Overall I am interested enough that i signed up for the beta and if I get in I may eventually drop WoW. However, if I don't make the beta I am not sure if I will have the motivation to switch over. The game sounds awesome and really involving...however that can be a bad thing....sometimes I like autopilot and considering the amount of hours people spend in MMO's I am a bit concerned about GW2 burnout occurring rather quickly. We will see.
If you don't like the fact that the game requires you to move and dodge, this might not be the MMO for you. Also, the holy trinity is removed and replaced with a different standard - control, support, and damage. It's not the same roles with a new coat of paint - rather every class can do pretty much every role if they want to. Some are better at it than others, but the idea is that you are an individual going up against the game, not the mechanics of the game (aggro, healing, doing DPS). The game is built around moving out of the way of almost everything, and skilled players dodging attacks while getting in their own will be rewarded almost universally over those who just stand there.
There's a video you can watch where the commentator goes "alright, this boss is tank and spank" and it's clear that it's true - just they got spanked and tanked by THE BOSS. This ties into your idea of how PVE is "unorganized" - it actually isn't - if players are doing things right, they will INSTINCTIVELY move in to block attacks, run up and take aggro from the boss while someone backs off to heal, etc. It is much more learning and watching what's going on and knowing what you class can do rather than pigeonholing yourself into one role and watching bars.
It's all about positioning, managing your combos with your weapons/kits/skills, and reaction reaction reaction.
Decided to play around with the tool a bit and built this. Nothing too fancy, my type of a condition ranger build:
Short bow skills 1-4 are the main "spam" skills. Skill 5 for when the foe tries to use heal, res, condition remover or blind. Few second daze there is nice but the interrupt is the key.
If engaged in melee switch to axe + dagger and use skills 3 -> 4 -> 5 and then Lightning Reflexes to get away and switch back to short bow. Axe skills 1-2 are only against multiple small health targets (like illusions) as both of them are multitarget axe throws.
Spike Trap for tactical defending. Signet of Renewal for conditions (also removes ally conditions). Spirit of Nature mainly for aoe ressing but it also heals and removes conditions so all right.
Main idea is to try to keep the foe crippled as much as possible, and a bunch of degen cover conditions of top of it. Dodging is a key to this build as well. Lighting Reflexes + additional endurance regen + vigor on evade should make that more plentiful.
Short bow skills 1-4 are the main "spam" skills. Skill 5 for when the foe tries to use heal, res, condition remover or blind. Few second daze there is nice but the interrupt is the key.
If engaged in melee switch to axe + dagger and use skills 3 -> 4 -> 5 and then Lightning Reflexes to get away and switch back to short bow. Axe skills 1-2 are only against multiple small health targets (like illusions) as both of them are multitarget axe throws.
Spike Trap for tactical defending. Signet of Renewal for conditions (also removes ally conditions). Spirit of Nature mainly for aoe ressing but it also heals and removes conditions so all right.
Main idea is to try to keep the foe crippled as much as possible, and a bunch of degen cover conditions of top of it. Dodging is a key to this build as well. Lighting Reflexes + additional endurance regen + vigor on evade should make that more plentiful.
06nbarnhill
Member
Yeah I am hoping to get into the beta to try it out and see just how annoying dodge is. Too much time spent dodging and I will pass because honestly.... dodging is kind of boring imo and its just time taken away from doing something useful.
My unorganized comment was about raid structure not playstyle. I mean that since the bosses are world bosses (as I understand it) that spawn and anyone in area participates why have a guild at all? Guilds are about scheduling and organization which isn't really possible if you don't know what bosses will be around when and someone else could simply get there first. If you are looking for a specific encounter what are the chances enough people will be online at said random moment to participate? Though that said I have just about the same issues with WoW nowadays.
Yes, I agree, you can't spam it, but it's not an oh shit button. It's meant to be weaved in and out of combos, as the situation dictates. It regenerates quite easily.
That's the WoW mentality talking - I know because I used to play it all the time - dodging is useful because you don't die - and it's incredibly easy to die if you don't in this game. It's not fire and forget, it's active as hell, and engaging.
06nbarnhill
Member
Not really the point. I am talking about endgame. For a game called "Guild Wars" I am simply failing to see the point of guilds I guess. I could be wrong though because I have been avoiding to many specific details.
I am talking about you and your guildies wanting a specific big badass boss and wanting to all be online to do it.
BrettWeir
Member
You'll be highly disappointed then. It's nothing like most MMOs that have "end game content" that the majority (IE WoW players, Rift players, etc) are used to.
Even though GW2 is an entirely different animal than GW1, I still look at the "Guild Wars" being guild focused around PvP.
**Edit: I know the game is not being built around PvP.
There's no "raids". There's only 5-man dungeons. There are world bosses, and everyone partakes. Guilds are not about competition on the same server, they're cooperation tools to have people work together - especially when you do WvW, your entire server is against another.
They built this game on comraderie, not griefing and self-boasting. You won't see "elitism" guilds here because they don't mean the same way they do in other MMOs.
06nbarnhill
Member
I guess I will just wait and see how it works. I know it will take adjustments and there will be aspects of the game I hate compared to WoW because.... honestly...... I really do think WoW is (and will probably continue to be) the best MMO on the market but after seven years....I am just fucking bored.
The only thing we can do in this thread is try to open your mind to new ideas about how to play in an MMO.
A lot of us are clearly drinking the hype-aid, but we've been doing it so long we're tempered on it and can give clear feedback instead of fanatic-drivel.
06nbarnhill
Member
Eh. I am skeptical of this. I won't miss the big elitist guilds that much though I image it will simply lead to big elitist realms. I really don't buy the comradeship argument though. Don't think that actually works mainly because honestly....no matter what game you play...gamers in general are elitist douchebags and will be elitist douchebags whether the game supports that or not.
I don't know. I am very conflicted. I see so many ways the system of the game could break down and collapse on itself. Some of the ideas are really cool. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
This is because you haven't listened to the Devs and haven't looked up much of the game at all. Not your fault, you're avoiding it. It's because you don't know that much that you doubt much. The unknown is always sketchy.
Elitist servers won't work though because servers are matched up at random, then switched periodically. There's no official forums, so there's no boasting there - and the people you fight in WvW are faceless "Invaders" with no names. So there's no "hey man, that was me!" type crap you see on WoW forums.
And the entire game's systems are built on actually cooperating with each other.
A dev in a video remarked that he saw in Press Beta that players would come by another player just killing mobs and lay down a combo field for them as they passed just to help out - something he didn't see often in other MMOs.
I've been buffed and healed by random players in WoW before, but it was pretty rare.
I am literally shaking my head in disbelief. If you take away the ability to dodge/roll in games like Dark Souls or Vindictus, you'd have a pretty bland hack-and-slash game.
You could even say there's "dodging" in WoW as well, just not a specific movement ability to do so. You dodge fires, or floating orbs (I forget the name of that twin valkyrie boss fight in the Arena in WotLK), or kite adds, etc. Even a mage's blink is in itself a form of active avoidance. You take these elements away from an encounter and all you have is a tank and spank, spamming your abilities in a pre-set rotation.
I think the best part though is that while WoW generally only applies these concepts to DPS and healers, GW2 requires everyone to actively avoid enemy attacks. Moreover, traditional MMO's only require active dodging in boss encounters, while it seems GW2 encourages players to dodge even "trash" mobs/regular encounters, or you get your shit kicked in.
Quadrophenic
Member
Explorable Dungeons (the hardmode versions of the dungeons) sound like something you'd need an organized group for, a Guild. I hope these versions of the dungeons will be what a Raid should be, challenging content which requires teamwork not driven by rote learning and dance-stepping.
Plus organizing attacks in WvW would be beneficial if you were in a Guild.
And then you have that Guild Upgrade stuff which will give you bonuses if you are in a certain Guild (and incentivize your Guild to do certain objectives to get those bonuses).
Plus organizing attacks in WvW would be beneficial if you were in a Guild.
And then you have that Guild Upgrade stuff which will give you bonuses if you are in a certain Guild (and incentivize your Guild to do certain objectives to get those bonuses).
I personally cannot stand 20-25 man raids. You could easily screw up as a dps while the rest of the raid picks up the slack most of the time without any fault. With these 5-mans, you're more accountable for your actions but you also contribute more.
06nbarnhill
Member
What is this abomination? Please tell me this will not continue to be the case. I love WoW's forums.......
So what you're saying is you love the bickering and self-preening? There's no room for that here.
06nbarnhill
Member
Yeah I do 10 mans myself. I guess the PvE doesn't sound terrible.
Also. Will there be instanced pvp battlegrounds. Or is it all world or RvR?
There is organized PVP (battlegrounds, as you say). Those are hotjoinable anywhere, anytime - you automatically level to 80, and go.
06nbarnhill
Member
Yeah....lay off the coolaid for a sec....massive generalizations detected. Like saying all tv is useless because MTV exists.
WoWs forums are awesome simply because the community. You can go onto the forums and ask a question and people whoa re actually informed and have had time to test it can answer. Hell sometimes even GM's answer. I love going on there in WoW and looking up and discussing builds. Realm forums where people looking for a guild thats active late night can find a match or ask if someone has a rare crafting recipe.
Any question I have can be answered on the forums. You can have a 30 page discussion on whether haste or mastery is better for arcane mages. There are threads where people who only do old school burning crusade raids gather to discuss.
Sure their are dipshits.....but that really isn't relevant....and using the fact that they don't have forums is a "pro" is insane...completely and totally. Its like saying that a game is great for not having the ability to strafe because it simplifies movement and allows you to focus on other things.
Someone give this man a link, i cant toght now i am on my phone
My Engineer:
First my Traits:
30 in Explosives: For Healing Bombs + higher explosion Radius + reduce cooldown for bombs + Bomb when u dodge (Healing while u dodge, nice :>)
20 in Inventions: More Healing + harder to kill (Protective + Reinforced Shield)
20 in Alchemy: Harder to kill (Vitality + Emergency Healing Injection) + shorter cooldown for elixirs + gain Endurance when hit with elixir (More dodge for my Buddys and more Dodge Heal Bombs for me)
Maybe only 10 in Alchemy and 10 in Tools for "Reduced cooldown when swapping kits". I have no idea how the cooldown are when u change kits.
Now my skills/weapons:
Pistol + shield: Is probably rarely used, only to survive.
Heal Skill: Healing Turret, no time for med kit. Enough to do with bomb and Elixir Kit. And the Turret Overcharge is nice, big heal + reviving. But maybe Elixir H is better.
Skill 7-9:
Elixir Gun for the Elixir skills and for Healing Mist
Bomb Kit for Bomb skills, do damage, blind, daze and immobilizes foes and Healing I hope Big Oil Bomb = Big Aoe Heal 
Elixir B: Good Boons(Buffs), Toss Elixir B = AOE Elixir ??? Don´t know, i hope ^^
Elite Skill: No Idea, no plan what Elixir X does. Maybe the Mortar for WvW.
But Maybe the Heals from Bombs are too low and this build sucks, we will see ^^
But to be in a Bomb Squad and do Aoe Damage + Aoe Heal at the same time with good survivability and Buffs/debuffs sounds good
First my Traits:
30 in Explosives: For Healing Bombs + higher explosion Radius + reduce cooldown for bombs + Bomb when u dodge (Healing while u dodge, nice :>)
20 in Inventions: More Healing + harder to kill (Protective + Reinforced Shield)
20 in Alchemy: Harder to kill (Vitality + Emergency Healing Injection) + shorter cooldown for elixirs + gain Endurance when hit with elixir (More dodge for my Buddys and more Dodge Heal Bombs for me)
Maybe only 10 in Alchemy and 10 in Tools for "Reduced cooldown when swapping kits". I have no idea how the cooldown are when u change kits.
Now my skills/weapons:
Pistol + shield: Is probably rarely used, only to survive.
Heal Skill: Healing Turret, no time for med kit. Enough to do with bomb and Elixir Kit. And the Turret Overcharge is nice, big heal + reviving. But maybe Elixir H is better.
Skill 7-9:
Elixir Gun for the Elixir skills and for Healing Mist
Bomb Kit for Bomb skills, do damage, blind, daze and immobilizes foes and Healing
I hope Big Oil Bomb = Big Aoe Heal Elixir B: Good Boons(Buffs), Toss Elixir B = AOE Elixir ??? Don´t know, i hope ^^
Elite Skill: No Idea, no plan what Elixir X does. Maybe the Mortar for WvW.
But Maybe the Heals from Bombs are too low and this build sucks, we will see ^^
But to be in a Bomb Squad and do Aoe Damage + Aoe Heal at the same time with good survivability and Buffs/debuffs sounds good
06nbarnhill
Member
Yeah sorry for all the questions. I would rather ask questions I care about that watch/read previews because there are some things I do not want to know which would be spoiled by them lol.
My Engineer:
First my Traits:
30 in Explosives: For Healing Bombs + higher explosion Radius + reduce cooldown for bombs + Bomb when u dodge (Healing while u dodge, nice :>)
20 in Inventions: More Healing + harder to kill (Protective + Reinforced Shield)
20 in Alchemy: Harder to kill (Vitality + Emergency Healing Injection) + shorter cooldown for elixirs + gain Endurance when hit with elixir (More dodge for my Buddys and more Dodge Heal Bombs for me)
Maybe only 10 in Alchemy and 10 in Tools for "Reduced cooldown when swapping kits". I have no idea how the cooldown are when u change kits.
Now my skills/weapons:
Pistol + shield: Is probably rarely used, only to survive.
Heal Skill: Healing Turret, no time for med kit. Enough to do with bomb and Elixir Kit. And the Turret Overcharge is nice, big heal + reviving. But maybe Elixir H is better.
Skill 7-9:
Elixir Gun for the Elixir skills and for Healing Mist
Bomb Kit for Bomb skills, do damage, blind, daze and immobilizes foes and Healing
Elixir B: Good Boons(Buffs), Toss Elixir B = AOE Elixir ??? Don´t know, i hope ^^
Elite Skill: No Idea, no plan what Elixir X does. Maybe the Mortar for WvW.
But Maybe the Heals from Bombs are too low and this build sucks, we will see ^^
But to be in a Bomb Squad and do Aoe Damage + Aoe Heal at the same time with good survivability and Buffs/debuffs sounds good
Really liking the support builds that have been posted thus far. Teamwork in this game is going to be completely essential for victory. Isn' Elixir X a random buff or is it something else? Can't remember off the top of my head.
I dont mwan to be rude, jira has an amazing op that will answer all your questions
Have found it:
Elixir X: Become a rampaging brute, a withering plague, or whirling tornado. Underwater become a withering plague or a whirlpool.
Mh nothing for me, still Mortar or Supply Crate for WvW. For BG`s i need a other Build
Yeah, no kidding. The dodge mechanic and focus on positioning are one of the major things that makes this game great.
I have played WoW as well, for many years, and it will forever hold a special place in my heart. But my god the PvE combat and general leveling in WoW is dead-fucking boring if you don't have any friends playing along.
There's no exploration, there's no actual helpful people or cool encounters in any of the zones, no incentive to group up, zero interesting quest objectives, etcetera.
I actually do agree that a lot of what GW2 is offering is yet unproven, but what it claims to bring to the table in terms of PvE sounds a lot more appealing than the things I did in my years in WoW.
Thanks for getting that up here. I don't entirely trust the french skill tool site to be 100% accurate or even complete so this will be useful to check for accuracy (not that it matters since everything could possibly change anyways).
You need a second weapon set, but that doesn't really make too much of a difference (though it would help to fill in some of the gaps you have, like a lack of a charge/teleport or ranged attack. The Greatsword would give you both, plus another Symbol to get regen on via Writ of the Merciful.
I would consider replacing Writ of Persistence (Honor line, Symbols last longer) and go with Purity of Voice; you're using "Hold the Line!" so you could be removing conditions while you're at it and your Symbols lasting longer may not be as much use (especially if people are highly mobile).
You have 15 points in Zeal, which is nice for Power/Concentration but that last minor trait ("Zealous Courage") doesn't seem worth it when you're ignoring your Radiance and Virtue lines. Dropping Might when you're at 50% health doesn't seem to mesh well with your defender/healer concept. I would consider pulling 5 from Zeal and putting them in Virtue to reduce your virtue cooldowns by 5% (1 sec. off Justice, 3 sec. off Courage, 2 sec. off Resolve) and allow your Virtue of Resolve to last longer (more regen).
I'm sorry for you, truly I am.
You can get about 3 dodges out of your Energy bar before you need to wait for it to refill. Knowing which attacks to dodge (and which direction) is going to be part of GW2. You will not be constantly dodging; nevermind that you can't do it, but that you won't need to for every single blow.
In contrast to spamming the same rotation to artificially hold an enemy's attention, or spamming the same rotation to make red bars turn green? Dodging is something you have to predict by watching an enemy, make split-second decisions on, and can drastically improve your chances of survival. You're not going to be rolling across the landscape like Zelda. Have you played Demon / Dark Souls at all?
Nice, thanks! I'm planning on rolling a warrior. I wasn't going to initially, after spending over 1000 hours as a warrior in GW1, but GW2's rendition of a warrior looks so much more fun and versatile that I think I'm going to like it a lot.
06nbarnhill
Member
I'm sorry for you, truly I am.
Drinking your own cooliad much?
Wow really is a good game. Its just very played out for me.
Plus there is no way that no forums > WoW forums despite their flaws. Forums are not optional anymore and the info on their forums is amazing. They are not THAT bad.
I was initially drawn towards Guardian, being a fan of Paladin/Cleric classes, but the Warrior has won me over.
Today.
Tomorrow? No clue. Might be an engineer for all I know. Seriously, they look pretty damn cool in terms of swapping tool kits... and how can you say no to a profession with a flamethrower?
Spehornoob
Member
I'm pretty horrible at build-making in any game, so I tried an easy one. Straight out damage warrior will almost definitely be my main character. I want to develop a second build that's more of a support build, though, with more emphasis on banners and tactics.
http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=24e001g1o2c2b3dafuaka01k1l1p252a2d2q
http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=24e001g1o2c2b3dafuaka01k1l1p252a2d2q
Those kind of exploration moments are so incredibly rare they aren't even worth mentioning. It was heart breaking to see how much TOR discourages exploration and experimentation. 99% of my attempts of actually not following the guided path ended with the game telling me fuck off.
WoW is an alright game (though built on a foundation that was outdated before launch). From the way you commented on playing it for a long time and it being stale, it wasn't hard to deduce that you're having regrets about the time you invested into it, and I was being sarcastic anyways.
The forums though? Abysmal doesn't begin to describe it. You essentially have a seething mass of fanboys ravenously defending their class/faction/playstyle/etc., criticizing the others, treating the developers like they're idiots and basically shouting about how their little sphere of play isn't absolutely perfect.
The community should be inside the game, not at an anonymous, external forum.
And unless things have changed, the theory-crafting and useful resources were all separate from the WoW forums, places like Elitist Jerks or WoWhead. Any civil discussion at the official forums was almost immediately drowned out by unreasonable angry chatter.
On Topic: The Guru Forums are just as bad, if not worse, because the game isn't even out yet for people to base their arguments / discussions / etc. on. I'm not saying Guild Wars' community is some kind of well-mannered, sophisticated community either.
LunaticHigh
Member
WoW forums are mostly filled with bad information and complete nonsense. If you want any informative information about WoW you go to mmo-champion, arenajunkies or elitestjerks, It's been that way for a long, long time.
Community sites are generally run better than the official forums anyway.
Community sites are generally run better than the official forums anyway.
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