Half-Life 2 = GOTY.

AI holds up very well in HL1, but to say its better then Halo 2/1 is little silly I think. ;)

their is some problems with the AI in HL2 but its not taking anything away from the game, what impresses me the most is the atmosphere.

feel like im watching some old sci-fi movie pan out, great stuff. :)
 
firex said:
sorry, but HL's grunts act smarter than any of the covenant in either halo game. HL2's combine soldiers and the new stuff like manhacks, gunships, the choppers and so on act even smarter than HL's grunts. the only AI that isn't as good is the friendly AI, which isn't nearly as bad as HL's friendlies and much more like other soldiers in call of duty.
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Stop now! Retain shred of credibility!
 
firex said:
sorry, but HL's grunts act smarter than any of the covenant in either halo game. HL2's combine soldiers and the new stuff like manhacks, gunships, the choppers and so on act even smarter than HL's grunts. the only AI that isn't as good is the friendly AI, which isn't nearly as bad as HL's friendlies and much more like other soldiers in call of duty.
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I'd go so far as to say that you are factually wrong and are simply making shit up due to an agenda against Halo...

Foolish.
 
What're the minimum requirements for this, and even if your computer isn't pimped out, does it run fairly well? Is it worth it if you can't see it in its full glory?
 
DSN2K said:
after playing both I dont agree, Halo 2's multiplayer might be good but its single player has nothing on Half Life 2. NOTHING.
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So when we say 'Game Of The Year" we mean 'Single Player Game Of The Year'?

Is multiplayer not "game"? It's removed from the GOTY equation?
 
I think there's no doubt that HL2's AI is pretty average for a FPS and not anywhere close to H2's AI.

So instead of HL2 making the AI smart, they just throw LARGE numbers of enemies at you and place them in areas that hurt you bad.

To the guy who never got his life below 50%, congrats you are awesome. For me, playing on normal, I've died probably around 100-200 times in the first 3-4 hours of the game. I do good for a little while and then I'll get to a room/area where I'll die 30 times and I'll have to keep thinking up new strategies and trying them out until I actually survive. For like an hour of the game I was running around on 9% life. I'd get a little life boost every few guys, but I'd always be taking 'some' damage and I'd usually be hovering around <30%. Because of this I'd have to be careful against every enemy, slowly creeping around them and most of all using the environment to my advantage. Sure when I'm at 100% life I usually just run and gun (though that still won't work on a room with 6+ guys and those robot flying things. 6 machine guns on you = dead in 3-4 secs), but for the majority of the game I'm hovering around 50% life and it's really causing me to play smart and take advantage of the engine.

For example if it's a narrow hallway and there's 2 guys on the other end hurting me badly any time I peek out from the corner and try to snipe them; I'll look for a big crate, grab it, hold it in front of me, and then charge them as they're shooting into the crate and not hitting me. Then when I'm near I toss the crate and just unload on them before they can attack back. I've stacked boxes to create wall shields, I've used crates to climb over and get behind enemies, and I've done a lot with explosions.

So while the AI doesn't put up that awesome challenging human-like experience of Halo; For me it's still a challenging game that forces me to think and use strategies just as I do in Halo...just in a different way.
 
fossen said:
So when we say 'Game Of The Year" we mean 'Single Player Game Of The Year'?

Is multiplayer not "game"? It's removed from the GOTY equation?
Click to expand...

overall.

you know Half life 2 does come with world's most popular online game right ? :) myself.... Halo2 MP > Counter Strike ;)

but the SP is what I got these games for, im sure some have more going on the multiplayer but most will define these games based on the single player experience.

Im sure most reviews did as well.(they would be lying otherwise)
 
firex said:
the original HL (which has better AI than either halo game).
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Congratulations, you just said one of the single dumbest things I've seen on GAF. There's no way in hell you've played enough of either Halo to make that judgement if you truly believe what you just said.

Clearly you have an agenda, plus you just lost any credibilty you ever had.
 
firex said:
sorry, but HL's grunts act smarter than any of the covenant in either halo game. HL2's combine soldiers and the new stuff like manhacks, gunships, the choppers and so on act even smarter than HL's grunts. the only AI that isn't as good is the friendly AI, which isn't nearly as bad as HL's friendlies and much more like other soldiers in call of duty.
Click to expand...

I just have to disagree. Like I said, I havn't played it in on Hard yet, but on the normal difficulty setting there is just no comparison between the AI in Halo 1 or 2 and Half Life 2's AI. In either Halo, even on Normal difficulty setting, the Elites would at least try and flush you out with gernades, would hide if they were low on health, would work as a team to flank you. Add in the variations from Halo 2, in terms of snipers and swarm enemies.. well Half Life 2 just can't compete.

Granted, I havn't finsihed the game yet so maybe they work better and get smarter as you go, but right now, it really does you no good to say otherwise. There are certain things you can debate, such has the (IMO) annoying hovercraft section, but AI is unfortunately not one of those things.
 
Bebpo said:
So instead of HL2 making the AI smart, they just throw LARGE numbers of enemies at you and place them in areas that hurt you bad.
Click to expand...

The first part I agree with. I've never felt like I had a chance to outsmart the enemy in certain parts because they just try and overwhelm you. It plays alot like Doom 3 in that regard. "Whoa! Look out, a bunch of guys just arrived all at once! Shoot quick!"

Not, hmm, I can see a few guys up ahead, let me try and get around them, or even let me try and take them out in advance or sneak up on them to get the drop or ANYTHING. This game is also a big culprit of the cleaning out a room and then coming back to it only to find it crawling with bad guys now. I can see the gameplay logic behind it, but it's not very logical from a strategy point of view.

AS for my personal track record on health? Only a few times after launching a exploding barrel to close did I dip below 50%. It could be because I am not trying to devise a strategy to fight these guys. Mainly because I've realize the weakness in it and I know it'll charge me if I show myself. So I show myself, they rush and kabloom, they get a shotgun in the face. AS for the manhackers, (I honestly thought they called them Manhats!), use your crowbar. They get close, whack and they go bye bye. (Again.. no AI.. the manhackers just rush you.)
 
I think i previously said Halo 2 was game of the year, but it's single player campaign is getting owned by Half Life 2 at the moment.
 
i thought halo1's a.i was pretty damn good but halo2's didn't impress me all that much. still good a.i. half-life's a.i is impressing me a lot though.

and for the record, i beat halo2 on heroic and i am currently playing halflife2 on hard.
 
I did a Half Life 2 marathon today and finished it on Normal. I died a bajillion times, but the game was soo good I couldn't put it down.

I would have to agree though, having finished both Halo2 and Half Life 2, I would have to give GOTY to Half Life2. It was a far better experience.
 
DSN2K said:
you know Half life 2 does come with world's most popular online game right ?
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Yeah, I've heard of it. Counter Somethingorother, right?

;)

I would consider that a separate game, that's all. Just seems odd to say that H2 has a good miltiplayer, but HL2's single player is better, so it's GOTY.

All things considered, HL2 will probably be GONY ... the new mods won't be hitting until mid-2005, and that's when HL2 will truly own the PC gaming landscape.
 
Ramirez said:
Half Life fanboys are annoying.
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completely agree

::rolls eyes at the thought of them continually posting these stupid ass threads for the next 5 years::

although i won't deny the game may very well be GOTY, looks amazing, but i'll pick it up when they work out all this steam bullshit, which i really don't care for anyhow.
 
Red Mercury has hit the nail on the head basically. Face it, the A.I. in HL2 just isn't that great. Any difficulty just comes from the number of enemies you have to kill, not how smart they are. That been said, I still think Half-life 2 is better than Halo 2 in terms of single-player experience. The story, the setting; just the whole atmosphere and experience are better. The hovercraft chase and Ravengard (whatever it's called) were both awesome.

When it comes to choosing GOTY, it's a weird situation. Halo 2 has the single-player and multiplayer for 50 bucks. And compared to Half-life 2 by itself, it definitely is better. But if you add CS:Source, and the impending DoD:Source, for 60 bucks, I think Half-life 2 is the better value. I think most people would agree with me. But without mods, I'd have to say Halo 2 > Half-life 2.
 
Red Mercury said:
AS for the manhackers, (I honestly thought they called them Manhats!), use your crowbar. They get close, whack and they go bye bye. (Again.. no AI.. the manhackers just rush you.)
Click to expand...

This solution works if there is 1 or 2 of them. Sometimes I get rushed by like 6-8 of them at the same time and if I'm in a small room I get hurt bad. I mean if I whack one, by the time I can hit again I've got 4-5 of them hitting me once which is like 35% damage. Or sometimes if there's a group of them I'll just try to run the hell away and take them out 1 by 1...yet usually I end up running backwards into a room with 5 guards who shoot me up while I'm trying to kill the manhackers.

About the enemies respawning a lot, On one hand I agree with you it's kinda annoying. OTOH it gives the game this kind of endless tension where you never feel safe. Even when I'm recharging life or shield I'm constantely looking around to make sure no one is going to shoot me in the back.
 
Yesterday I would've laughed at this thread, and thought of you as nothing more as a fanboy.

Then I played Half-Life 2.

And you're 100 percent right. From the several hours that I've played of this truly revolutionary masterpiece, I can say with confidence it utterly crushes Halo 2 and everything else I've played in the last few years.

Keep in mind I'm not a PC gamer. I despise having to upgrade constantly to play the newest games.
 
Half-Life 2 is paced so much better than Halo 2. The whole game so far feels like one giant chase scene. Awesome!
 
I really hope that the Sims (or any game other than GTA:SA, H2, HL2, or MP2) wins GOTY from the AIAS. The explosion on this board would be priceless.
 
I am sorry, anybody who says that Half Life 2 crushes Halo 2 looses all credibility. It's certainly possible to like it more, but such exagerations makes you look foolish.
 
Urrrmm... I know one area where HL2 crushes Halo 2... Control. Keyboard and mouse > Xbox controller.

I guess you could get an adaptor though...
 
I own Halo on xbox, pc, and i have the LE edition of Halo 2. I still think that Half-life 2 >> Halo 2. It's no match. But for some reason, Both games will take all my free time for weeks to come.

I'm weird, just like that.

Also; I have no idea why people say that Halo's AI is special. I finished halo in every damn level of difficulty, several times, and I never noticed something different. If for some reason that Elites jumping on top of boxes and spotting you and having them dodge your grenades and hide behind a box is "special", homie please, go play more fps games before spewing bullshit.

The things that make Halo fun is the physics engine, overall presentation and incredibly fun multiplayer modes. But stop talking about the A.I in Halo being some sort of hallmark in modern computing. The real challenge in Legendary mode is that the damage is higher. That is all. I never noticed anything special about their tactics, except maybe for some reaction time, in every playtrought.

I never thought "Oh my, I cant believe the a.i did that" even once since I started playing the Halo games.
 
... and to add to the AI fire, I would like to note that the way that HL2 is paced, so far (up to through the boat level), AI is a total non-issue. The game is not about tactical planning yet. It's about getting the fuck out of danger, fast.

I couldn't be happier with that. :)
 
There are things the Half Life 1 AI does that I have yet to see surpassed. Things like recon, flank, retreats, rush, targeted grenade throws, group tactics have to be seen to be believed. And I've played Halo on solo legendary.

To counter shuri's post, there were many times while playing HL1 where I whent 'holy crap I can't believe they just did that'.

BTW I still have to finish Halo 2 and HL2 but as of now I think San Andreas deserves GOTY. :)
 
GashPrex said:
I am sorry, anybody who says that Half Life 2 crushes Halo 2 looses all credibility. It's certainly possible to like it more, but such exagerations makes you look foolish.
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Agreed. I've been trying to be even handed here. I personally have enjoyed Halo 2's SP and MP portions much more. But I havn't finished HL2 yet, and in any case they are both fantastic games no matter which one you like better.

My biggest problem right now, and probably why I am not just raving about the overal experince of the single player is simply because I can not get sucked into this world. I really really really really want too. But right from the start, everytime I started to get into it, I'd be slapped with a nice loading screen. There are sections where it seems to be better.. but overall I would say Valve picked really bad spots to Load. They are not all horrible, but the majority of them happen at the worst moment that just pulls me straight out of the game.

Also.. I'm a decent way into the game and theres been very little 'story' elements. Tidbits have been thrown out here and there, but I've yet to see anything really interesting story wise happen. That was my biggest problem with the detour into Ravenhome. It seemed to serve no real plot purpose. Just go through here, then um.. yeah MINES! You need to go through some mines.. then um..

Again.. I think alot of this just has to do with the fact that I can't get immersed into the world.
 
The load times do suck, indeed... They're dramatically longer than they were in HL1, even when HL1 was brand new.
 
Unison said:
The load times do suck, indeed... They're dramatically longer than they were in HL1, even when HL1 was brand new.
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Ya didn't Gamespot say that they were short like HL1? The long load for startup and long level transitions dissapoint me the most so far.
 
Oni Jazar said:
Ya didn't Gamespot say that they were short like HL1? The long load for startup and long level transitions dissapoint me the most so far.
Click to expand...

They probably played it on a Valve supercomputer...


And it's not that my system sucks... 3.0 ghz P4 w/ 1 gig ram, Geforce 6600, etc...
 
shuri said:
I own Halo on xbox, pc, and i have the LE edition of Halo 2. I still think that Half-life 2 >> Halo 2. It's no match. But for some reason, Both games will take all my free time for weeks to come.

I'm weird, just like that.

Also; I have no idea why people say that Halo's AI is special. I finished halo in every damn level of difficulty, several times, and I never noticed something different. If for some reason that Elites jumping on top of boxes and spotting you and having them dodge your grenades and hide behind a box is "special", homie please, go play more fps games before spewing bullshit.

The things that make Halo fun is the physics engine, overall presentation and incredibly fun multiplayer modes. But stop talking about the A.I in Halo being some sort of hallmark in modern computing. The real challenge in Legendary mode is that the damage is higher. That is all. I never noticed anything special about their tactics, except maybe for some reaction time, in every playtrought.

I never thought "Oh my, I cant believe the a.i did that" even once since I started playing the Halo games.
Click to expand...

well recently, on halo 2 playing along. I jump out a warthog to clean up some elite stragglers - and one elite flanks me and hops on the warthog cannon and starts blasting the hell out of me.

Or getting jacked by elites in my ghost...or about a 100 other cool moments that the AI has had.
 
GashPrex said:
I am sorry, anybody who says that Half Life 2 crushes Halo 2 looses all credibility. It's certainly possible to like it more, but such exagerations makes you look foolish.
Click to expand...
i also agree, when I hear someone start with the *** CRUSHES Halo 2 the ol eyes start doing backflips and I start tuning out the fanboy [skip post entirely] i refuse to listen to an idiots perspective on anything
 
Unison said:
... and to add to the AI fire, I would like to note that the way that HL2 is paced, so far (up to through the boat level), AI is a total non-issue. The game is not about tactical planning yet. It's about getting the fuck out of danger, fast.

I couldn't be happier with that. :)
Click to expand...

Indeed, HL2 is all about the ever lasting sense of danger.
 
shuri said:
Also; I have no idea why people say that Halo's AI is special. I finished halo in every damn level of difficulty, several times, and I never noticed something different. If for some reason that Elites jumping on top of boxes and spotting you and having them dodge your grenades and hide behind a box is "special", homie please, go play more fps games before spewing bullshit.

SNIP!

I never thought "Oh my, I cant believe the a.i did that" even once since I started playing the Halo games.
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First off, read the examples I've listed. I've yet to see any of that, save the random nade toss here and there, in Half Life 2. That is one reason to think that Halo's AI is better than Half Life's. Your own example, while not revolutionary is also something that you just will not see in Half Life. I would LOVE to see one of thses Combine Soliders climb up on something to get a better view off me. I don't care if it's been done in other games, that is not my point.. my point is that the AI is lacking in this game.

AS for playing through Halo several times and not noticing anything different.. well then I'm shocked. I can take almost any checkpoint in Halo and see the enemy act differently to the same tactics I am using. Even more so if I change up my own strategy. I would agree that with Halo, on average, the difficultylevel really just makes things harder to kill and makes them much more accurate. But it creates longer situations which only show off the AI more so. Again, this really isn't my point.. my point is that the AI in Half Life 2 is seriously lacking. I'm only using Halo as something to demonstrate.

I personally do think that the AI in Halo is something to brag about, even more so in Halo 2. But that can be debated, what can not be debated though is that none of what I have mentioned in regards to Halo is found in Half Life. At all. And the game is lacking for that IMO.

As for not having "OMG" moments while playing either Halo? I must have my standards for what is impressive AI set pretty low. But then, what does that say for Half Life?

EDIT: As for Unison's comment about AI being a non-issue early on. I would agree. It's all about getting the fuck outta dodge to begin with. But later on, it becomes so much more apparent that the AI is just lacking.
 
Hey...their not quite as dumb as Killzone!

The game is amazing. The AI comments are dumb as hell, but this is still just...awe inspiring. If it wasn't for the fucking load screens I'd be totally immersed still. They really draw you out. Everything else though...HAWT. Deserves much praise.
 
GashPrex said:
well recently, on halo 2 playing along. I jump out a warthog to clean up some elite stragglers - and one elite flanks me and hops on the warthog cannon and starts blasting the hell out of me.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, I had that happen to me too.

:lol :D
 
Actually my basis for Halo AI being > HL2 AI is very simple:

In Halo when there is an enemy hiding behind a pillar and I go around the pillar the enemy moves and circles around the pillar along with me.

In HL2 when there is an enemy hiding behind a pillar and I go around the pillar the enemy stands still and fires at me while I drop him.

But I do agree with the idea that HL2 doesn't need the AI because it's 'not' a tactical shooter. You're not slowly moving through areas because you can't sprint, but rather you're running fast as hell through sections and just trying to survive.
 
Unison said:
The load times do suck, indeed... They're dramatically longer than they were in HL1, even when HL1 was brand new.
Click to expand...

Though you must also remember in HL2 the loadpoints are about 10x further apart too.
 
Oh and I do agree that in some ways HL1 does things with the AI that has yet to be surpassed in any game. I remember they played like MGS style and would get in military formations and flank you and stuff. In Halo they kinda flank you, but it just seems more like they're really aggressive and rushing you from different sides.
 
firex said:
sorry, but HL's grunts act smarter than any of the covenant in either halo game. HL2's combine soldiers and the new stuff like manhacks, gunships, the choppers and so on act even smarter than HL's grunts. the only AI that isn't as good is the friendly AI, which isn't nearly as bad as HL's friendlies and much more like other soldiers in call of duty.
Click to expand...

:lol
 
Red Mercury said:
AS for playing through Halo several times and not noticing anything different.. well then I'm shocked. I can take almost any checkpoint in Halo and see the enemy act differently to the same tactics I am using. Even more so if I change up my own strategy.
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Yep. I was playing Halo 2 the other day, and I was stuck on this one section forever. Musta died dozens of times. Right by the checkpoint there were two enemies fighting each other, and everytime I reloaded their fight unfolded differently. Their tactics were never the same, they never died in the same spot, the same guy didn't win each time, all without me even getting involved. It impressed me a lot. That's what makes Halo cool - each time you play something different happens. Anyone who says otherwise is a goof.

So far HL2's been heavily scripted and the AI's incredibly dumb. Each time I reload things play out pretty much identically, which is a bit of a drag after the unpredictability Halo offered. It's obviously a very well done game, but I dunno if it's for me. I prefer Halo's non-stop KILL KILL KILL gameplay to HL2's more adventure-y style. And I'm really tired of that goddamned hovercraft.
 
Okay, I am not that far into the HL2 but their "grunts" are relatively stupid. They have great AI algorithms like "stand still in one spot and maybe move behind something if you can shot". Of course most of the time you can kill them before they ever try to take cover. They are no where near as "aware" as Halo's Covenant elites. They only present a threat in large numbers.

If you want to argue over whether HL2's advanced AI characters are smarter than Halo's advanced AI characters, fine. But the canon fodder guys are totally outclassed by Elites and Jackals. HL2 grunts are about the same as Halo grunts. Only mildly annoying, very weak, and only a problem when there are a ton of them. All that said, Halo grunts can still throw grenades with deadly accuracy.....so I give them the edge.
 
After spending the last 6 hours playing Half Life 2, I gotta agree that its single player experience is better than Halo 2's. The characters are more believable, the story is more interesting, the gameplay is more varied, and the level of polish is top notch. Outside of the excessive loading and occasional crash, I'm loving this game so far and if it keeps up at this pace its definately my pick for GOTY.

That being said, I found Halo 2 to be one hell of a good game due in part to its remarkable AI, an area that it definately reigns over Half Life 2 without question. None of the enemies so far in HL2 have impressed me as far as AI is concerned, which is a shame considering how cool the marines seemed to behaved back when I first played the original in '98. Halo's AI is so dynamic that you could play the same section over and over again and not have the same thing happen twice. The combat is incredibly fluid and dynamic. HL2, while fantastic in it's own right, doesn't share the same quality AI. Most of the enemies just stand around waiting to be shot in the head.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Ramirez said:
Half Life fanboys are annoying
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Cerebral Palsy said:
Halo fanboys are annoying.
Click to expand...

ProTip: Fanboys are annoying!

Besides, Pirates will be GOTY!

[/Sid Meier fanboy]

EDIT: BTW, the flood of impressions keeps making me sooo want HL2... even though I wasn't a huge fan of the original. Alas, sadsack computer says it isn't in the cards for now.

EDIT 2:
satterfield said:
All fanboys are annoying.
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doh.
 
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