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[LukeSmith]

So there's people in LW who WANT to lose ?

Unfortunately for those guys, the way that system works, folks are only gaming it for EXP. The skill assessment software is calculating all of those folks who finish at zero as losers, and their thwarting their quest to 50. lulz

 

[Dirtbag]

I think the melee is fine. Yes, I've flown through the air and thrown up my hands in disgust, but I much prefer it this way to the alternative. I don't want to have to worry about the exact range of my melee, especially where a little lag and movement prediction is involved. I like to shoot a guy as much as I can, get in close enough, and smack the melee. If I've shot him more than he's shot me and we're both hitting melee at roughly the same time, I want to win that every time. No exceptions.

Halo has very little to do with the "skills" required to hit the melee button a fraction of a second before your opponent. The better player can overcome that with better use of weapons, aim, shield management, map usage, etc.

Personally - my fix for the melee "problem" is to make it not as strong so it's less of a primary attack method and more of a last resort type of thing (unless you catch the guy from behind - that's always fun).

Its not about hitting the button at roughly about the same time, its about having a melee land and not do the same amount of damage as someone else. See gears of wars chainsaw battles and remember how wonky a strange melee system felt.

But you've nailed the one positive of the flipside of the coin. which I still disagree with, no use in trying to convince each other. Melee system feels flawed the way it is to me - bottom line.

 

[GeoNeo]

When I first went back to H1 I was missing Melees left and right because I was so use to the lunge taking care of most of the work. You guys will be shocked at how much more harder it is to land a melee in H1. And, If H3 did have the H1 melee system I am pretty sure that melee kills as a whole would go down.

Though, i'm sure Bungie has looked into this a lot and sadly some things just need to change for an online game to deal with lag. I think Bungie should explain why they decided to go with this melee system, maybe their reasons are highly justified and we just need to adapt to the new system.

I notice a lot more in H3 (Thanks to video feature?) that most people when facing off run towards each other to land that melee, and actually backtracking a few steps is more then enough to finish people off with a gun you might have (BR seems best fit for this. However, if you pulse fire the AR you'll notice that it connects a lot more since the bullet spread is less, thus saving ammo for the deathblow.)

 

[op_ivy]

I like all the maps, especially now I "know" them a little better. I think stuff like Narrows and High Ground really seperate the men from the boys, players who know their shit can -really- dominate.

I think Snowbound and Isloation are my least favourite maps. I really like the upper level of Isolation, and to a lesser extent, Snowbound, but find there is very little "flow" to the battles there, they just tend to be tit-for-tat running and gunning.

My favourites are, by far, Valhalla and the Pit. Valhalla works great for every game type, it's awesome "symmetry" and room for vehicular mayhem despite retaining a managable size to simply run through is great.

The Pit is a great idea for a setting, a great design, and the weapon placement is wonderful. Honestly I'd quite like to see a larger map based on the template get made, either extending the midfield for some Mongoose action or opening the field outside (where all the Warthogs and Pelicans are parked) for larger teams.

I also love what they did with Zanzibar, but find it incredibly frustrating to play, it just feels a little too... open? I dunno, wherever I am I always feel vulnerable, which is an admirable acheivement in and of itself, but it makes me feel like I need to poop whenever I play it :lol

thanks guys for carrying my post from the sp forum here...

i love;
high ground - probably the best map in the game. works for basically all gametypes too. its visually appealing, and has near perfect layout.

snowbound - dont understand the hate for this one. i love the battles that occur chasing each other in and around all the shield doors, the hunt and peck battles in the same areas with the shot gun, and the fights from atop each structure. again, a very nice level to look at (my favorite mp map in this dept) and that goes a long ways.

the pit - reasons stated above.

epitaph - honestly havent gotten to play this much, seems to only really pop up in doubles games, but from what i've played it seems to be similar to midship without the constant feeling that someone could nail you at any time from anywhere. i also love the shield doors for the same sort of stuff you see in snowbound. looks nice too (see a pattern?)

guardian - again, visually stunning and a well thought out map. i was actually pretty terrible at this one at first, as you really have to use the lifts for good movement through the level. it feels a lot like lockout to me, but the threat of close combat always feels more likely. definitely a map for crouch walking

valhalla - takes all that was good about coag and bloodgulch and improves on em. this map flows wonderfully on foot or in vehicles. plenty of hills/rocks/trees to hide from snipers.

last resort - again, a HUGE improvement over the old zanzabar (which in itself was probably my favorite halo 2 map). battles flow better, weapon and item placement is better and its just a great map for a variety of game types.

not a huge fan of;
construct - see above.

isolation - the layout just doesnt feel so great to me. i think a few more ruined structures up top would give it more of a Sanctuary feeling (a good thing), instead its just too open. i also am not a big fan of down below, but that could mostly be improved by having another route to the top (up the butthole that drops down from the base?)

 

[Dirtbag]

Isolation is a great map for CTF, Assault, or slayer... but its got a few flaws for team slayer.

At higher levels you'll see alot of teams post up at the top the map(by shotgun spawn) and with the two BR's that spawn up there for ammo, its basically rape time. With this position they have the higher ground for grenading and BR'ing, and can stop anyone going for the sniper at its current spawn.

To solve this, I think the sniper rifle should spawn at each base down in the bunkers. This will remove the tactical advantage being on top the map gives as it will allow the low-spawning team to creep around and snipe the team up top. Then just have the rockets spawn where the sniper rifle currently spawns (also making it more effective against the ghost on level startup, by giving the rockets the higher ground to take out the ghost).

Though, no idea what this would do to the objective versions of the map with this weapon load-out. Given the popularity of team slayer though, I almost feel like its time Bungie has seperate (but similar) weapon loads for objective based gametypes vs. team slayer on the same maps. At least for the power weapons that effect gameplay negatively, in the gametype it was never designed for.

 

[Ramirez]

If you go in with a three man squad, nine times out of ten, it'll match you up with another three man crew. Works pretty well.

I've been playing by myself in TS trying to get 50, and it seems to be 8 random people for the most part, my only evidence of this is seeing the same people through out the night, but on different teams.

 

[Ramirez]

Unfortunately for those guys, the way that system works, folks are only gaming it for EXP. The skill assessment software is calculating all of those folks who finish at zero as losers, and their thwarting their quest to 50. lulz

Well that's crap, I've been in countless games like that where if I even go near the ball guy I'm attacked by every person standing near him. -_-

 

[Striker]

This post is dedicated to Team Objective.

I noticed in my recent games the most I've played has been Territories at High Ground and Last Resort. Some times I would get 1 CTF or One Bomb at those maps. One Side VIP as well (my opinion on this: too easy to kill the VIP -- for one, the indicator from the previous update makes this game MUCH easier. Secondly, on maps like High Ground and Isolation, teams are so nearby a team can barely have a defense to defend their leader). With the decent amount of maps on the game right now, how come I'm not seeing more pop up in Matchmaking?

Here's what I think would be suitable:

Last Resort: 1 CTF, One Bomb, Territories (Rally Race perhaps), VIP (also add in Escort)
High Ground: 1 CTF, One Bomb, Territories (Rally Race perhaps), VIP (also add in Escort)
Narrows: Multi-flag, multi-bomb, 1 CTF, One Bomb, VIP, Oddball, KotH
The Pit: Multi-flag, multi-bomb, 1 CTF, One Bomb, Territories (Rally Race also), VIP (Escort)
Isolation: 1 CTF, One Bomb, Territories (Rally Race also), Oddball, KotH, VIP (each team having a VIP would be better suited, but to each their own)
Construct: 1 CTF, One Bomb, VIP, Oddball, KotH
Epitaph: 1 CTF, One Bomb, Territories, Oddball, KotH
Guardian: 1 CTF, One Bomb, Territories, Oddball, KotH
Snowbound: Multi-flag, Multi-bomb, 1 CTF, One Bomb, Territories, VIP (Escort), KotH

Of course, CTF and Bomb would carry more weight, with lesser known ones like Escort, Rally Race, and One Side VIP rarely appear.

Thoughts?

 

[Ramirez]

Objective NEEDS Oddball and KOTH, such awesome team games squandering away in LW at the moment.

 

[Striker]

Objective NEEDS Oddball and KOTH, such awesome team games squandering away in LW at the moment.

Oh yes. Forgot those.

I'll edit.

 

[NJ Shlice]

Yeah i've experienced the same situations.

Sorry Luke, but your explanation of "the ranking system is infinitely complicated" really doesn't hold up.

It really doesn't have to be THAT complicated.

I retract this statement and apologize.

This system is smarter and prevents newer forms of cheating, like Boosting.

All of the homo-gays that plead in the Lone Wolves lobby "Let's all tie for first, hold the ball for 10seconds and then drop it, we'll all tie for first and get the points and skill." and of course the kids who switch to Korean Language and do the same thing.

Sorry, but this method does not work for them. I've been in games where everyone agrees to do this but me and i have to play along or they threaten to kill me. But each game it happens NO ONE MOVES UP ANYTHING.

The system does not reward anyone because there ARE NO KILLS. Therefore no one is moving up any numbers. And that is how it should be.

I really think that people suck in this game. I'm a level 40 in Lone Wolves and I've yet to get my ass kicked, i mean a game where my ass was sore from the beating. I'll push forward and see what happens. Maybe all the good freaks are at 50 already and i just have to get up there.

Sorry for criticizing the matchmaking system. It has its faults, I've been in games where people haven't advanced for a couple games but have played well. I don't understand that, but I think its a really good idea that the system analyzes playing style.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

I agree with all the melee comments, although I thought it was a bit off in the Beta as well.
One thing though is the way you fly for miles if you lose a melee battle. The first few times were funny, but now it just feels like the game is rubbing your nose in it. Aggravating.

 

[Karg]

I retract this statement and apologize.

This system is smarter and prevents newer forms of cheating, like Boosting.

All of the homo-gays that plead in the Lone Wolves lobby "Let's all tie for first, hold the ball for 10seconds and then drop it, we'll all tie for first and get the points and skill." and of course the kids who switch to Korean Language and do the same thing.

Sorry, but this method does not work for them. I've been in games where everyone agrees to do this but me and i have to play along or they threaten to kill me. But each game it happens NO ONE MOVES UP ANYTHING.

The system does not reward anyone because there ARE NO KILLS. Therefore no one is moving up any numbers. And that is how it should be.

I really think that people suck in this game. I'm a level 40 in Lone Wolves and I've yet to get my ass kicked, i mean a game where my ass was sore from the beating. I'll push forward and see what happens. Maybe all the good freaks are at 50 already and i just have to get up there.

Sorry for criticizing the matchmaking system. It has its faults, I've been in games where people haven't advanced for a couple games but have played well. I don't understand that, but I think its a really good idea that the system analyzes playing style.

I'm a 44 in LW only because I can't get one more damn achievement but just telling you the road from 40-50 will be slow because anyone from my friends list thats above 45 said it takes forever to rank up and the people around that range are definitely better.

 

[ChrisD84]

Oh yeh, I don't like epitaph

I think it's bullshit and very frustrating. Melee is a tool. I generally know how withered an opponent is and try to time my strike in accordance. I love playing up close. It's how I roll. But countless times, I use the melee at the "right" time, only to find myself hurling straight up thirty feet into the air.

I know Bungie has addressed it, and obviously they feel this system is more fair for whatever reason, but it's not. It rewards players for making a tactical error by beginning to fire at a distance too great to finish their opponent. They run out of ammo, close the distance, get melee'd in the face, but win anyway. Bullshit.

If they have low enough health to be killed by the strike, they should be killed by the strike, no exceptions. Reflexes and proper tactics should win out, not some arbitrary system that effectively adds health for players dumb enough to get within striking distance with low health.

LAME

Completely agree.

 

[NJ Shlice]

I'm a 44 in LW only because I can't get one more damn achievement but just telling you the road from 40-50 will be slow because anyone from my friends list thats above 45 said it takes forever to rank up and the people around that range are definitely better.

I'm looking forward to it :-/

 

[GDJustin]

I seem to have hit my LW peak at 30-33, and I'm pretty decent I think.

So if you're truly a 40+ and aren't hitting any steep challenges, then you're a very good Halo player, whether you realize it our not.

 

[ianswoody]

I haven't played any Team Objective or Team Tactical, so I'm a 1 in both. If anyone is interested in rolling in either of these playlists for the next couple hours, send me a PM.

Also, GT = ianswoody

 

[MaX_PL]

i hope bungie patches this game. patch every aspect of it pretty much.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

After seeing a video somewhere where a guy got outside the fence on the Pit, I decided to try and replicate his act. He did it using teleports, and he said it took him forever to get a teleport to stay outside the fence - typically, when you place a teleport past an invisible wall, it disappears after a few seconds.

I couldn't ever get my teleport to stay, and then I realized I'm an idiot. It doesn't have to stay, in order to go through it. You can travel through it while you're still holding it (I knew this already, but hadn't been considering it in this situation). So I placed a teleport on my side of the fence and then held another on the outside. And then I went through the one on my side and came out through the one I'd been holding on the other (it's confusing, I know).

Anyway, using this teleport hopping technique, I got to some cool places:

To recap, you place a teleport inside the normal area of the level, somewhere close to your target area. Then, you create and hold another teleport, and (sometimes it takes some work) get it so that you're holding it in your target area. Without causing the second teleport to leave the target area (you're still holding it), you move through the teleport in the normal area of the level, and you come out in your target area.

Sometimes, you have to use crates to be able to place the normal-area teleport close enough so that you can enter it while still holding the second teleport in the target area (i.e., you want to get to a really high place, but you can't hold the second teleport there while still reaching the first teleport - so you stack crates really high and place the normal-area teleport on top of those crates).

There are boundaries, of course:

My goal was to get to the catwalks above the level, but it turns out that outside the level there are secondary invisible walls that prevent passage, as well as... zones, I guess you could call them. Outside of the level there are three types of zones - (1) normal zones, that you can walk around in, (2) 3- or 4-second kill zones that kill you after a short period of time, and lastly, (3) insta-kill zones, that I could only reach by teleport, but I died before even being able to move. Determining which area is which is tricky, but one sure way to check for insta-kill zones is by trying to place a teleport in that area - if it disappears instantly, then it's an insta-kill zone, and you it's very unlikely that you'd be able to use teleports to get there.

The catwalks above were an insta-kill zone, and I wasn't able to get there.

And, of course, none of this is useful in an actual game, but it's still fun to push the boundaries and try to get to places you're not supposed to be able to get to.

I've only tried this on the Pit and Zanzibar (and had no progress on the latter), so I'd be interested to see where folks could get using this technique on other levels.

 

[MaizeRage25]

Kills : 3981
Deaths : 4441
K/D Ratio : 0.90

I'm showing some real improvement, I think. Up from .81 a week ago.

 

[Blueblur1]

I got a teleporter to stay outside of the fence. I made a joke map variant where all the spawns are outside and everyone constantly dies. Its called Deathtrap. :lol :lol

 

[kirbutashi]

You can also use teleporters to get farther down the beach on High Ground, to the point of being completely submerged underwater. Just get up against one of the boundaries and invisible walls and do spawn a receiver of some sort. I downloaded a race that spawns players out in the murky nothing, and seeing the highlights of the mongooses as your only respite of escaping the beach in the right direction is fun.

 

[sixthsubset]

I really think that people suck in this game. I'm a level 40 in Lone Wolves and I've yet to get my ass kicked, i mean a game where my ass was sore from the beating. I'll push forward and see what happens. Maybe all the good freaks are at 50 already and i just have to get up there.

coughmlgcustomscough

 

[NJ Shlice]

coughmlgcustomscough

I do play customs a lot. And there are some guys that i play with that kick my ass. Hard style.

But for the most part, I think people are finding it hard to adjust to the new auto-aim situation

 

[Ramirez]

I'm a 44 in LW only because I can't get one more damn achievement but just telling you the road from 40-50 will be slow because anyone from my friends list thats above 45 said it takes forever to rank up and the people around that range are definitely better.

I've reached 46 in LW, and fell back down to 45 because I lost like 3 Oddball/KOTH games in a row...honestly, the people don't seem to be any better than they were at 40. LW is weird, it's usually never the best guy that wins, it's the guy that was able to steal the most kills and come in after 2 guys had just got done fighting and mopped up the remaining person. I won a game a couple days ago where I jumped out to like 19 within the first couple of minutes, I got like 3 BR double kills where guys were fighting each other and had no shields. :lol In closing, I hate LW.

 

[Mr Vociferous]

I do play customs a lot. And there are some guys that i play with that kick my ass. Hard style.

Talking about me, no doubt.

Particularly when we're on the same team.

 

[chapel]

I concur and share your hate for LW. Im only at like 33, but I just hate playing it. Though I know I need to move up in it...

 

[Stoney Mason]

Is LW still only like 5 people on a map?

 

[Trasher]

Is LW still only like 5 people on a map?

Yup.

 

[Sandman42]

I played like 5 Lone Wolves games tonight. For some reason, every single time the match began a guy would say "lets do an achievement match okay guys!". Don't people use the Korean servers anymore? I just want to play a regular Lone Wolves game.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Finally.

I've been wanting to do this since I got the game (remember the Beta videos of people doing it with the Banshee?).

And the glory shot - this is high, high above Valhalla:

Mr Vociferous was the first to get outside of the level using this technique, but neither he nor I understood why it happened. After some investigation of Voc's video, I figured out exactly how it was done:

Sometimes, when you die, the ragdoll physics will fling your body outside of the level, far past the invisible walls that you normally could not pass. Typically, when viewing a film of this action, the camera will either A: not detach, or B: detach, but spring back to the invisible wall, not allowing you to roam any further than normal.

Secondly, you may have noticed "chapter points" in saved films. These are little markers on the timeline that form once you've watched up to that point in the video. Chapter points can be ten seconds apart, or two minutes apart, depending on the total length of the video.

When you're viewing a saved film, and a chapter point falls at the same moment that your body is off in the distance like I described before, then you have the ability to get the camera outside of the level. You let the video play normally, and once you notice that a chapter point has formed while your body was past the invisible wall, then all you do is hit the left button the d-pad to rewind to that chapter point, and there you go: rather than reset to its distant viewpoint, the camera resets on top of your body, and you're outside of the level's invisible walls. There are still boundaries, but you can definately achieve much more extreme distances than anything we've seen before.

It doesn't always work. And even when it does, there are certain limits that apply in different situations. On Sandtrap, for example, there was another barrier that reset the camera to my body every time I breached it. So I couldn't get outside the level in Sandtrap.

But it's worked for me on Construct and Valhalla, and Voc did it on Last Resort.

Here's a link to my fileshare, where you'll find a video that you can free roam in. Keep the camera attached, and once you've passed the 30-second marker, hit left on the d-pad to rewind to that moment. The camera will reset to your body. Pause the video, hit Y, and you're free to go where you please (even into space).

EDIT for a more thorough explanation: I created a scenario in Forge, in which near the edge of a level, a fusion core drops onto a large pile of fusion cores (all at a respawn time of ten seconds). I wait for the gap while they're respawning, and then park my Mongoose facing the edge of the map. It usually only takes a few tries to blow me far enough for the detaching trick to work. Also, I have my own respawn time set to fifteen so that my body has plent of time to fly.

If the video is around one minute long, then the chapter markers will be spaced ten seconds apart. And a fifteen-second respawn time guarantees that if your body flies outside of the map, then you'll catch a chapter point.

 

[Kuroyume]

Favorites:

- The Pit
- Guardian
- Sandtrap

Not sure yet:

- Construct
- Epitaph
- Highground (I have a love/hate thing going with it...)

Annoyed with:

- Last Resort (Get rid of the two fucking mongooses for the enemy team, or make it take much longer for them to respawn the flag at their base)
- Narrows (I love it, but the Maulers often ruin it)

Crap:

- Isolation
- Snowbound
- Valhalla

This game seriously needs more bigger maps. Bring back Waterworks. Bring back Headlong... Containment... Relic.... Anything...

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Wow, Ranked Team Slayer is so intense. I've had a boatload of 49-50 finishes tonight.

And to think I'd been playing Social all this time!

 

[siamesedreamer]

Yeah, ranked team slayer is my favorite right now.

Favorites:
High Ground
Snowbound
Valhalla
Narrows
Sandtrap

Decent:
Last Resort
Epitaph
Isolation

Hate:
Construct
Gaurdian
The Pit


I basically like any map that is open and conducive to Battle Rifle/Carbine use. I am also a very skilled Warthog driver, so I can really help out my team driving around helping the gunner get kills on Valhalla and Sandtrap. The Pit is probably my least favorite map in the game - I am not very skilled in chaotic, upclose combat. Statistically, my best map is High Ground.


Totals (ranked):
K 872
D 774
R 1.13

 

[Kuroyume]

Can someone explain to me what happened in this game?

http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/FileShare.aspx?gamertag=KUR0YUME

It's the Team Slayer video at the bottom...

 

[MaizeRage25]

Here's my list:

Favorites:
High Ground
Snowbound
Narrows
Gaurdian (Doesn't show up NEARLY enough in TS matchmaking)
The Pit

Decent:
Construct
Epitaph
Valhalla

Hate:
Isolation
Last Resort

Never Played:
Sandtrap

 

[Ramirez]

The Pit is a fucking boring ass map at high level Team Slayer.

 

[GDJustin]

While I essentially *like* every single map in Halo 3, the problem that I have with most of them is that they don't seem to foster any sort of strategic evolution.

My FAVORITE thing about the Halo MP experience is that there's SOO many people playing, that strategies and counter-strategies ebb and flow. This has happened to some extent with H3 - week 1 no one touched the Mauler. Weeks 2-3 Mauler is the new must-have. And now people are starting to actually back away from Mauler-wielders with more frequency, and the weapon will likely fall out of favor.

But that's just an individual weapon - in Halo 2 this would happen on the MAPS too. even on hit maps that I hated, like Waterworks, if you were to only play on it heavily once every 6 weeks or so, your likely matches play out very differently each time, because the map would now be being played in a newer manner.

But on H3's maps, with a few exceptions, the battle ALWAYS seems to play out the same way. They just aren't dynamic. Construct is a good example. It's a well-designed map on paper, but I've never once seen the battle not take place around the elevators.

The Pit is one of the few Halo 3 maps that actually does accomplish this. You can play on it 10 times and end up with 10 matches that all felt very different. Sometimes everyone stays low. Other times everyone seeks out the high ground. I've also had matches where the bulk of the fighting was rocketside, sword side, frontside, and backside.

Narrows is another map that actually seems to have a dynamic, evolving strategy as well. On paper High Ground is *clearly* the better-designed map of the two, but in practice, I find that most high ground matches play out almost identically. It's boring.

Edit: I wanna clarify - I like High Ground. I like Construct. I like all of Halo 3's maps, I think. They're all fun, in my opinion. I'm just disappointed that the fun on High Ground always follows a pretty similar pattern, while the fun on other maps seems to be more fluid and dynamic - the players aren't funneled into such set action patterns.

 

[Ramirez]

Most of my Waterworks matches revolved around us team killing each other because we were bored out of our minds. :lol

Construct is no different than Ivory Tower, it's better than IT, due to the multiple pathways to the top, you couldn't even really try to take the top of IT without rockets actually due to the grenade spam, bah.

Anyways, I just put up a 23 kill +11 performance on Isolation against a bunch of 48's, and I still didn't level up to 48, so lame. It was my 3rd or 4th win with only one loss, I was certain that it would boost me up.

 

[GDJustin]

Construct vs. Ivory Tower actually further proves my point, I think.

If you were to just objectively look at the two maps, I don't think you could really make the call about one being "better designed" than the other.

But after playing dozens of matches on both, a pattern emerges. Ivory tower absolutely did not play out the same way for me every time. It would sometimes be underneath, and then spill out into the right or left sides, and would sometimes be up top.

But in Construct, the fight is NEVER underneath, besides right at the start.

 

[Ramirez]

I must have been playing a different game, as you said with Construct, the only time anyone took the fight beyond the top in Ivory Tower was either the start of the game, or the people were so bad it didn't matter where you fought them. There was nothing dynamic about Lockout or Midship either, once you hit a certain level everyone is going to use the same strategy on the map, probably because it's the best one to win.

I've had far more different matches with 3's maps than I have 2, just then in that Isolation game, the team was using shield regenerators at the top of a bunker to combat our top side BRs, it worked pretty well, they mounted a come back with it.

 

[alisdair]

But in Construct, the fight is NEVER underneath, besides right at the start.

I am low-level (20 TS, 37 LW), so my experience might be very different for that reason. But I've had lots of mid-game fights in the basement, on the mezzanine, and around the fusion-core-wall walkway.

If you get into the lead, you can confuse your opponents by dropping down - they'll expect you at the top and will send up power drainers or fusion cores to try to keep you in one place. Teams also seem to expect grenade/BR fights from elevator to elevator, and mixing it up a bit puts people off.

 

[McBradders]

I am low-level (20 TS, 37 LW), so my experience might be very different for that reason. But I've had lots of mid-game fights in the basement, on the mezzanine, and around the fusion-core-wall walkway.

If you get into the lead, you can confuse your opponents by dropping down - they'll expect you at the top and will send up power drainers or fusion cores to try to keep you in one place. Teams also seem to expect grenade/BR fights from elevator to elevator, and mixing it up a bit puts people off.

I've had lots of good fights oon that map, all over, too. I think it's just safer to get kills at the elevators, but there are better choke points elsewhere, once you get the lead it's a good idea to fall back there and make -them- come to you.

 

[Karg]

I've reached 46 in LW, and fell back down to 45 because I lost like 3 Oddball/KOTH games in a row...honestly, the people don't seem to be any better than they were at 40. LW is weird, it's usually never the best guy that wins, it's the guy that was able to steal the most kills and come in after 2 guys had just got done fighting and mopped up the remaining person. I won a game a couple days ago where I jumped out to like 19 within the first couple of minutes, I got like 3 BR double kills where guys were fighting each other and had no shields. :lol In closing, I hate LW.

Well thats what FFA is, its all about kill stealing and mopping up. By the way I finally got my damn triple sword kill on a Pit game last night. Finally......LW......no more.....

 

[McBradders]

Well thats what FFA is, its all about kill stealing and mopping up. By the way I finally got my damn triple sword kill on a Pit game last night. Finally......LW......no more.....

Lucky! I still need the 4 kills and the damn double laser shot >_<

 

[Photolysis]

Bungie really need to fix this melee attack:

The problem with the melee attack is that quite simply, it punishes superior skill (or at least reflexes and speed).

If we play a split screen game (to eliminate any latency), and I get my melee attack in first because I have better reflexes, and my opponent gets a few more bullets in before meleeing, why should I die?

If the system worked on a literal, frame by frame basis and only affected melees that occurred in the exact same frame, there would be no problem. In it's current state however, it desperately needs fixing.

 

[alisdair]

Bungie really need to fix this melee attack

No, they don't. It has been designed this way on purpose.

The new melee stops close encounters from being a test of lowest ping (or best lag adjustment). Now the skill is not in when you press B, it's in everything before that point -- and after, if you want to survive long enough for your shields to recharge.

It's not broken, and lots of people (myself included) think it's much better. More importantly, so do Bungie, so don't bother waiting for a patch.

 

[Won]

If we play a split screen game (to eliminate any latency), and I get my melee attack in first because I have better reflexes, and my opponent gets a few more bullets in before meleeing, why should I die?

You have better reflexes because you press the meleebutton first? In the described situation the better player wins because he put more bullets in his opponent. In that situation the player with the "reflexes" wins because he waits out, dealing a bit more damage with his weapon and reacts to the opponents decision to jump in and melee.

I'm also not a fan of the system but that's how I see it at the moment.
I suck at keeping the damn crosshair on my enemy therefore I lose in most melee situations. I hate it, it has problems but I think it is fair in most situations.
However I never played Halo 2 mp so I can't really compare it to other systems. I see the meleeattack as a finisher and the current system discourage to jump in at the first possible chance, which has nothing to do with reflexes.

Also what alisdair said.

 

[urk]

The new melee stops close encounters from being a test of lowest ping (or best lag adjustment). Now the skill is not in when you press B, it's in everything before that point -- and after, if you want to survive long enough for your shields to recharge.

So why didn't every other weapon get this treatment? How about rockets? You fire one when your shields are ringing and score a direct hit, but the other player also gets his off with full health a moment after. You die. He lives. It would be utter bullshit. It's only the melee system that adds health. It's arbitrary and it takes control away from the player.

Here's the terrible truth of the matter: If you put yourself in striking distance with low enough health for a successful melee to kill you, it doesn't have anything to do with the other player's skill, but your own lack thereof. You should not be given boosted health for your tactical error.

I get what they were trying to do, but this system rewards players that prematurely engage from distance, shoot their wad, and rush in with empty clips. And it punishes those who know that certain weapons require patience and timing to be effective. If I'm intelligent enough to wait out your AR, knowing you've committed too soon, drawing you in to engage you with a close range weapon, I'm going to lose, even though I clearly outwitted you.

And that sucks.

 

[Photolysis]

You have better reflexes because you press the meleebutton first? In the described situation the better player wins because he put more bullets in his opponent. In that situation the player with the "reflexes" wins because he waits out, dealing a bit more damage with his weapon and reacts to the opponents decision to jump in and melee.

Yes, if I get my melee attack in first after doing sufficient damage to cause it to kill, I have faster reflexes. I reacted faster in realising I had done sufficient damage. Are you claiming that reacting faster than someone else DOESN'T mean you have better reflexes, even though that is the very definition of it?

In another example, let's say we come around a corner, surprising each other. You take 1000ms to start shooting (hypothetically). I take 200ms. Replacing melee attacks with guns. Are you saying I have worse reflexes because I reacted quicker and started shooting first?!

Let's go back to our example of going around a corner, and create another hypothetical extreme example. This obviously doesn't happen in the game, but illustrates my point.

We come around the same corner again. I have 1 health from fighting, you have 5 (both arbitrary, but we'll say a melee attack is more than enough to kill us both).

We didn't expect that. You are completely shocked, and take several seconds to react. I react instantly. You eventually melee attack me, but the window of opportunity in this example is so high that you kill me. Why do you deserve the kill? I clearly reacted faster, you were just lucky to have more health.

Reflexes are an important skill in a FPS!

The fact is, is that this system is broken. It rewards players who wait, true, but why should they be rewarded, when they should be dead? It also DOES reward slower players. If it takes them longer to realise "hey, I've done enough damage to kill him", they have slower reflexes. Yet they get the kill.


It also doesn't solve the latency problem. Try playing on my host in the UK if you are in the US. You will lose every single melee attack.


In any other situation in the game, you die when sufficient damage has been done to you. Why should the melee attack be any different? If you can't handle being killed because you had zero health first, you shouldn't be playing a FPS.