Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?

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Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
The best overall campaign in terms of pacing, story, art and character development in the history of the Halo franchise happened, that's what.

Ugh...finished it a few months ago(Legendary blind run) and I started hating the campaign about halfway through. Every encounter dealing with the new aliens, particularly the bullet-sponge teleporting knight variants, were never enjoyable. I disliked the plot and felt the writing was abysmal(really? Another general with questionable leadership skills, attempts to disrupt Chief's plans constantly purely for dramatic tension and pointless other reasons?). The level design had only a small handful of interesting tactical consideration for combat taking place in a fascinating colorful alien world, the bulk of them were in narrow tron-inspired corridors with only floating polygonal shapes to admire sadly.

It was a huge leap forward in pure visual delight though. Models looked great, guns as well. But man, I did not end up loving that campaign at all. I do feel the team could pull off something better though going forward, or at least build another pretty FPS.
 
I wished that 343 had released the stripped down Throwdown playlist at launch, alongside the (IMO wretched) Infinity playlists and let the population decide what was going to stick over a longer period of time. I felt that Throwdown was released far too late to attract any players that would provide decent matchmaking for someone like myself who isn't a teenage twitch machine.

343 lost my trust, but as yet haven't destroyed my hope for a good future Halo game.

What is Throwdown?
 

Havok

Member
What is Throwdown?
The equivalent of Team Hardcore or the MLG playlists - stripped down variants without the fluff mechanics. It didn't show up until it was too late for a lot of people to care. It also fell in the same trap of being managed by a very small group of individuals and not really communicating the myriad changes it made from the core experience.

Unfortunately, when you split the game up into very polarized chunks like that (and Halo 4 was the most extreme instance of this in the series due to the quality of the base gametypes), the general populace tends to gravitate towards the more social playlists and you end up with a concentration of toxic competition with very little wiggle room for skill matching to work its magic...which is why it's so important that the base game be good in the first place.
 
The equivalent of Team Hardcore or the MLG playlists - stripped down variants without the fluff mechanics. It didn't show up until far too late.

Unfortunately, when you split the game up into very polarized chunks like that (and Halo 4 was the most extreme instance of this in the series due to the quality of the base gametypes), the general populace tends to gravitate towards the more social playlists and you end up with a concentration of toxic competition with very little wiggle room for skill matching to work its magic...which is why it's so important that the base game be good in the first place.

I quit two months after release... Hm. Is Throwdown actually fun though? I wanna give Halo 4 another chance.
 
I quit two months after release... Hm. Is Throwdown actually fun though? I wanna give Halo 4 another chance.

It's what base Halo 4 should have been, with Armor Abilities in the Ordnance Drops instead of Rockets with Ammo perks. Now though? There's barely a population left, but I'm sure there's still some enjoyment to be had.
 
The equivalent of Team Hardcore or the MLG playlists - stripped down variants without the fluff mechanics. It didn't show up until far too late.

Unfortunately, when you split the game up into very polarized chunks like that (and Halo 4 was the most extreme instance of this in the series due to the quality of the base gametypes), the general populace tends to gravitate towards the more social playlists and you end up with a concentration of toxic competition with very little wiggle room for skill matching to work its magic...which is why it's so important that the base game be good in the first place.

Would you say the game should of been designed to mimic team throwdown's style?

I had an absolute blast with halo 4. But i attribute a lot of that to not really getting into halo's multiplayer at all since 2. So it felt much more fresh to me. Personally i loved the playlists that offered such a different style of play. It kept that freshness for me.

But it was pretty clear looking at playlist numbers some were just not getting any attention. Anything with less than 300 players seems worthless. So i see your point about it splitting the community so much.
 

jem0208

Member
You know what, I completely disagree with the hate Halo 4 gets. After not playing for a few months (Xbox one and exams etc) I decided to pop it in and it's seriously fun.

Yes it has issues but honestly I couldn't give a shit about Sprint ruining map flow, CoD style perks or load outs, ordinance, no weapons on map etc. The game is just fun.
 
You know what, I completely disagree with the hate Halo 4 gets. After not playing for a few months (Xbox one and exams etc) I decided to pop it in and it's seriously fun.

Yes it has issues but honestly I couldn't give a shit about Sprint ruining map flow, CoD style perks or load outs, ordinance, no weapons on map etc. The game is just fun.

Thats kind of how i viewed the game, maybe it wasnt a fun halo game but it was a fun GAME to me.

However, i keep saying "was", so im pretty confident im never getting back into it.

There were a lot of good ideas in 4 i really really liked i hope they carry to 5. But then there are a lot i hope they reevaluate.
 
It's what base Halo 4 should have been, with Armor Abilities in the Ordnance Drops instead of Rockets with Ammo perks. Now though? There's barely a population left, but I'm sure there's still some enjoyment to be had.

I'll give it a shot, I guess. I'm starting to get sick of the hit-detection in Halo 3.
 

Rockyrock

Member
You know what, I completely disagree with the hate Halo 4 gets. After not playing for a few months (Xbox one and exams etc) I decided to pop it in and it's seriously fun.

Yes it has issues but honestly I couldn't give a shit about Sprint ruining map flow, CoD style perks or load outs, ordinance, no weapons on map etc. The game is just fun.

well sure, it all just depends on what your definition of "fun" is.
 

TechOne

Member
The best overall campaign in terms of pacing, story, art and character development in the history of the Halo franchise happened, that's what.

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Halo 4 had the worst campaign out of any Halo.

Let's not forget you had to read the books to understand half the plot of Halo 4 since the game really doesn't explain what is going on (ancient human race, forerunners, and the didact).
 
You know what, I completely disagree with the hate Halo 4 gets. After not playing for a few months (Xbox one and exams etc) I decided to pop it in and it's seriously fun.

Yes it has issues but honestly I couldn't give a shit about Sprint ruining map flow, CoD style perks or load outs, ordinance, no weapons on map etc. The game is just fun.
Question: Would it have made any difference to you if there wasn't an Active Camo AA in the game or perks? Would you still have found the game fun without those details that drastically altered Halo's multiplayer identity in a sea of games copying CoD's implementation of perks and randomness?

I mean sure, you had fun with Halo 4 and played it several months later and still had fun, but it seems like either way you probably would have found enjoyment in the game. That goes in line with Halo 2 making unnecessary changes when no one was complaining how CE needed to be slower and less consistent throughout its weapon sandbox.
Thats kind of how i viewed the game, maybe it wasnt a fun halo game but it was a fun GAME to me.

However, i keep saying "was", so im pretty confident im never getting back into it.
Yeah, this is the key here ;[ You found it fun, but you're never going to go back to it.
There were a lot of good ideas in 4 i really really liked i hope they carry to 5. But then there are a lot i hope they reevaluate.
Any of these ideas pertain to multiplayer? If so, which?

I'll give it a shot, I guess. I'm starting to get sick of the hit-detection in Halo 3.

Halo 4 is exponentially better than Halo 3 in this regard.
 

FaintDeftone

Junior Member
I remember when Halo 4 came out, everyone was singing it's praises. After I played through it, I was baffled how high the reviews were. The campaign was horribly boring, the new enemies were annoying to fight, and the multiplayer maps lacked a certain magic that made me put the game down rather quickly. Easily the worst in the series IMO.

Thank god people finally came to their senses on this. I thought I was the only one who didn't care for it.
 
Thank the lord. Playing social slayer with my dad, getting BRs on Valhalla... It's just awful. No matter how accurately you lead your shots, it just hardly works. Still a fun game though.

Funny thing about this is that people complained about Ragnarok in Halo 4 because their shots would actually land where they aimed, unlike Halo 3 lol. It's weird, really.. It seemed as though people forgot or didn't really consider how boring it was to see someone casually strolling over to your base to take your flag as you're shooting them, but your shots don't hit because of either the poor netcode or terrible hit detection of that inconsistent BR. Then you would continue to slowly chase them to your base as you waste more shots than you should have.

Halo 4 drastically improved combat on Ragnarok IMO because we now have a more reliable BR and a single shot precision rifle in the DMR. Sure the DMR is 3x, but Halo 4 also has default sprint to make map traversal on larger maps more effective instead of waiting around for a Hog/Mongoose that a single person would waste in order to get better positioning. If you were smart about your movement and not trying to fight people on the open parts of the map, then the DMR was hardly an issue. People still set up in the same exact positions, people still fought from the same exact locations, but now at least combat is more reliable than it was in Halo 3, and not to mention we have a plethora of ways to prolong firefights, so you should rarely be caught in a situation of "GOT DAMN DMR IS SO OVERPOWERED MAN I SWEARRR!!!" unless you were just making terrible decisions in the first place..

So in short, Halo 4 Ragnarok >>>>>>>>>> Halo 3 Valhalla


EDIT: And to add, there was more pop-shotting in Halo 3 than Halo 4, so before anyone says how people would camp more on Ragnarok that wasn't necessarily the case. People moved around more in Halo 4 thanks to the overall pacing of the game increasing.
 

Rockyrock

Member
Funny thing about this is that people complained about Ragnarok in Halo 4 because their shots would actually land where they aimed, unlike Halo 3 lol. It's weird, really.. It seemed as though people forgot or didn't really consider how boring it was to see someone casually strolling over to your base to take your flag as you're shooting them, but your shots don't hit because of either the poor netcode or terrible hit detection of that inconsistent BR. Then you would continue to slowly chase them to your base as you waste more shots than you should have.

Halo 4 drastically improved combat on Ragnarok IMO because we now have a more reliable BR and a single shot precision rifle in the DMR. Sure the DMR is 3x, but Halo 4 also has default sprint to make map traversal on larger maps more effective instead of waiting around for a Hog/Mongoose that a single person would waste in order to get better positioning. If you were smart about your movement and not trying to fight people on the open parts of the map, then the DMR was hardly an issue. People still set up in the same exact positions, people still fought from the same exact locations, but now at least combat is more reliable than it was in Halo 3, and not to mention we have a plethora of ways to prolong firefights, so you should rarely be caught in a situation of "GOT DAMN DMR IS SO OVERPOWERED MAN I SWEARRR!!!" unless you were just making terrible decisions in the first place..

So in short, Halo 4 Ragnarok >>>>>>>>>> Halo 3 Valhalla

DMR killed any map movement because of not just how accurate it was but how easy it was to use.
 
DMR killed any map movement because of not just how accurate it was but how easy it was to use.

"Killed" is a strong word. Map movement in Ragnarok wasn't far worse than Valhalla, not to mention the quality of firefights.

Players have:
  • Default sprint
  • AA's like Thrusters to get into position faster, Camo to gain better positioning/to hide from attackers, Hardlight Shield to avoid being hurt and to provide cover as you move into position, Jet Packs (not really helpful on Ragnarok unless you used it off the mancannon), Regen. Field to help yourself/teammates hold positions, etc. etc.
  • More options in vehicles
  • Faster movement speed
  • etc.
When you consider the entire package and the quality of said experiences, the shootouts on Halo 4 Ragnarok were far more interesting than the inconsistent mess many of us experienced on Halo 3 Valhalla. So that's why I think people made a bigger issue out of the DMR when using the BR in Halo 3 made me want to punch babies :B -- Nothing was more frustrating than shooting people with 99.9% accuracy only for the random spread and/or poor netcode to say, "NOPE!"

People just need to make better decisions, not be overly dramatic about the 3x DMR (only talking about the 3x factor). Sure the weapon should be more difficult to use, but that's not really the point because in that case, so should the BR along with creating a tighter spread with faster kill times.

So with the DMR, the issue is its ease of use, not necessarily the 3x which too many arguments focused on.
 

jem0208

Member
Question: Would it have made any difference to you if there wasn't an Active Camo AA in the game or perks? Would you still have found the game fun without those details that drastically altered Halo's multiplayer identity in a sea of games copying CoD's implementation of perks and randomness?

I mean sure, you had fun with Halo 4 and played it several months later and still had fun, but it seems like either way you probably would have found enjoyment in the game. That goes in line with Halo 2 making unnecessary changes when no one was complaining how CE needed to be slower and less consistent throughout its weapon sandbox.
It certainly wouldn't be any more fun if they weren't there. I actually really enjoy spawning in with a jetpack and flying up to attack a group of enemies on a platform. Or switching out my loadout because suddenly we need to defend and I want an Assault Rifle.

Halo's multiplayer identity is still deeply ingrained in Halo 4. The basic gameplay of running gunning and grenading is still there and it's still awesome. Being able to spawn with a BR instead of an AR doesn't change that.

Yes, I would have enjoyed it if it 343 had just retread the tried and true Halo. But they can't just take Halo 3 and remake it. There needs to be some form of change or the series will grow stale extremely quick. If you don't like these additions, what would you like?

well sure, it all just depends on what your definition of "fun" is.

I find just playing the game fun. Instead of focusing on essentially minor issues like sprint or ordnance.
 

Havok

Member
I quit two months after release... Hm. Is Throwdown actually fun though? I wanna give Halo 4 another chance.
If you liked the MLG playlists in past games, you might get some enjoyment out of it. It's still a patchwork fix, though - there are things that just can't be fixed with the tools the community has, so elements of vanilla Halo 4 still shine through, good or bad. I have no idea what it's like now, since I haven't played the game in close to a year.

Would you say the game should of been designed to mimic team throwdown's style?

I had an absolute blast with halo 4. But i attribute a lot of that to not really getting into halo's multiplayer at all since 2. So it felt much more fresh to me. Personally i loved the playlists that offered such a different style of play. It kept that freshness for me.

But it was pretty clear looking at playlist numbers some were just not getting any attention. Anything with less than 300 players seems worthless. So i see your point about it splitting the community so much.
Not particularly, though I guess that depends on what you mean by "Team Throwdown's style." If you mean that it's a place where people start on a balanced playing field, absolutely. But I don't think the base should necessarily be as extremely pared down as Throwdown is, no. I'm fine with there being a more hardcore place for really competitive, e-sports invested people to funnel into as a real test of their skills...but the gulf between that and the vanilla game can't be "ultra-hardcore tryhard playlist vs. ultra-casual foolin' around playlist with zero tension or competitive viability" without some sort of middle ground as a base. That's the problem - the core Halo 4 experience was just devoid of any semblance of competitive design, and the only response for a very, very long time was to implement the most extreme polar opposite as a companion. I chalk a lot of the apathy towards the game's core multiplayer experience up to elements that only really popped up after significant progression into the investment systems was made (something obfuscated by the unlock system that hid several really ridiculous balance issues behind a time investment), as well as pretty atrocious gametype design that was seen at the outset - prerelease, in several cases. The former allowed the game to show very well in short bursts (because the core shooting/movement mechanics are actually pretty solid), and the latter was often waved away by "you won't understand until you try it!" before the game was released.

The thing is, vanilla Halo (at least once rifle starts were commonplace, which usually happened reasonably quickly) was a pretty decent common ground for people. It offered a reasonable level of competitive depth at the top end, and at the lower end people could kind of fool around and awful players could spray their ARs and try to rush people for melees - the kind of thing that doesn't really fly against good players. Then on top of the core, you had MLG playlists that pared that already-reasonably-competitive experience down into something much more fast-paced and hardcore, and you had party game playlists like Living Dead or SWAT that let people zone out and have fun without much time or skill investment comparatively.

Halo 4 lacked that middle ground as a starting point - the core (which was very much rooted in the Infinity-style modern-shooter model) was instead that low end of the skill requirement spectrum and it took a very long time for the middle ground to be introduced which left a lot of players who didn't want to live at either end of the spectrum out in the cold. That was sort of addressed by the Legendary gametypes, but it took an absurd amount of time for that and the balance patch to materialize, and by that time it was too little, too late for a lot of people. Even with those, it's a Spongebob-branded band-aid on top of a sucking chest wound simply because the underlying systems and maps just were not designed for that style of play (which is why you see Forge variants so heavily dominating the Throwdown playlist). The core of the game - base player traits that had remained fairly constant throughout the series (and more importantly, extremely predictable within each match) - was gutted and scooped out so that perk choices could fill the holes, and you just can't really come back from that without doing more work than they were willing to, because they only have so much manpower for sustain and frankly, the chance of getting some percentage of the players back who were driven away might not have been worth it.

In the end, I think it was just a fundamental misunderstanding of how the staple, longterm players utilized the multiplayer in the series up to that point. Or at least how people like me used it, I guess.
 
It certainly wouldn't be any more fun if they weren't there. I actually really enjoy spawning in with a jetpack and flying up to attack a group of enemies on a platform. Or switching out my loadout because suddenly we need to defend and I want an Assault Rifle.

Halo's multiplayer identity is still deeply ingrained in Halo 4. The basic gameplay of running gunning and grenading is still there and it's still awesome. Being able to spawn with a BR instead of an AR doesn't change that.

Yes, I would have enjoyed it if it 343 had just retread the tried and true Halo. But they can't just take Halo 3 and remake it. There needs to be some form of change or the series will grow stale extremely quick. If you don't like these additions, what would you like?
Actually, I'm all for personalizing your weapon loadouts as long as they're balanced and don't include Shotguns. If people want to spawn with an AR and Plasma Rifle, why not? That's their decision. If people want to spawn with a BR and an AR, why not? If people want to spawn with a Pistol and Plasma Rifle, why not?

The way I thought/wanted Halo 4 to be was to have a list of starting weapons to choose from that you would place in your primary/secondary slots, not what we received with Primaries being one list and Secondaries being a separate list. It required the need of a perk if you wanted to use an AR with a BR, which was a silly design decision for a Halo game when what I mentioned would've worked much better.

Perks......... the hell with them!


I find just playing the game fun. Instead of focusing on essentially minor issues like sprint or ordnance.
This just tells me you would've been fine either way, which is alright. I'm sure many Halo fans wish they were like you and could disregard/ignore/be oblivious to the details of what separates Halo from other shooters on the market. I'm not sure if you're considering Halo 4 launching with power weapons in Ordnance Drops being a good thing, but that doesn't change the fact that it's certainly not just a "minor issue" as it drastically changed how a single match was played.
 
Ordnance is second only to loadouts in the shittiest decisions made in Halo 4's multiplayer.
Specifically, what were your issues with loadouts? Was it the perks, Boltshot that should have never appeared in the first place, or just the fact that they let you choose what weapons you wanted to spawn with?

How about a system like what I described above?
 

Rad-

Member
I remember when Halo 4 came out, everyone was singing it's praises. After I played through it, I was baffled how high the reviews were. The campaign was horribly boring, the new enemies were annoying to fight, and the multiplayer maps lacked a certain magic that made me put the game down rather quickly. Easily the worst in the series IMO.

Thank god people finally came to their senses on this. I thought I was the only one who didn't care for it.

I liked the single player. Online was boring though.
 
Ordnance is second only to loadouts in the shittiest decisions made in Halo 4's multiplayer.

There are several other problems with Halo ahead of those two, like Join in Progress. Before you even have to deal with loadouts, JIP is screwing your over. You'll leave a game on a bad map (also one of the problems) and end up in the exact same match for your next 3 searches.
 

Jito

Banned
Another big problem with the game that not many people know about is that it ran like shit in splitscreen, massive framerate drops and the pop in was shocking. Also was it the first Halo to remove 4 player splitscreen?
 
Specifically, what were your issues with loadouts? Was it the perks, Boltshot that should have never appeared in the first place, or just the fact that they let you choose what weapons you wanted to spawn with?

How about a system like what I described above?

I thought that loadouts pretty much made the game a free for all rather than the equal playing ground that I felt the Bungie Halo's had. Hopping into a game made it feel even more like CoD in that regard, especially with those annoying boltshot things.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
"Killed" is a strong word. Map movement in Ragnarok wasn't far worse than Valhalla, not to mention the quality of firefights.
I thought it was dramatically worse, in large part because it more than doubled the engagement distance as compared to playing on Valhalla in Halo 3. There you could see players moving about the map, but required a certain proximity to engage. Flanking maneuvers could effectively bypass a poorly spread team. Not so with Ragnarok, where if you can see them, you can shoot them with the DMR. It went from home to my favorite battles in the Halo series (Halo 3) to some of the worst - long distance ping fests. That was systemic to Halo 4's combat.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Valhalla got absolutely destroyed by Halo 4's sandbox, especially the DMR.

And the sad thing is, both Ghaleon and I saw it coming, posted about it, and they still released Valhalla with zero changes into a sandbox with the DMR.
 
Valhalla got absolutely destroyed by Halo 4's sandbox, especially the DMR.

And the sad thing is, both Ghaleon and I saw it coming, posted about it, and they still released Valhalla with zero changes into a sandbox with the DMR.

I've barely seen DMRs after the Turbo update. What ruins Ragnarok for me more than anything are the abundance of power weapons and vehicles. Valhalla to me was always an infantry focused map, and throwing a dozen vehicles and power weapons each on it while the map remains unchanged (worse considering the kill boundaries in Banshee space) is what tends to stagnate movement and increase spawn traps, not one gun being able to hit someone across the map. I feel as if you're saying Valhalla only worked because the H3 BR was crap. Valhalla also didn't have camo snipers...
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Valhalla got absolutely destroyed by Halo 4's sandbox, especially the DMR.

And the sad thing is, both Ghaleon and I saw it coming, posted about it, and they still released Valhalla with zero changes into a sandbox with the DMR.
Pretty much everything wrong with the multiplayer was predicted long before release.
 

FyreWulff

Member
I've barely seen DMRs after the Turbo update. What ruins Ragnarok for me more than anything are the abundance of power weapons and vehicles. Valhalla to me was always an infantry focused map, and throwing a dozen vehicles and power weapons each on it while the map remains unchanged (worse considering the kill boundaries in Banshee space) diminish the experience more than a gun being able to hit someone across the map. I feel as if you're saying Valhalla only worked because the H3 BR was crap.

Big maps work better when they're actually functionally big and you can't engage a target directly from anywhere on the map to anywhere on the map. It ruins actual strategy, flanking, movement, or any actual map pathing or flow. It just turns into a killing floor where people throw their bodies at the other side until they make it through in objective or you get pinged everywhere off spawn in Slayer.

Same thing happened to Blood Gulch in Reach. the 3x DMR zoom made it so you could hit things at absurd distances and turned it into a bonegrinder instead of a fun experience.


You have to change and adapt maps to sandbox changes to get them to work in other Halo games. Bungie made a Reach adapted Valhalla, that was Tempest. It fixed the middle hill problem by turning it into a canyon at the top middle of the map and made it so the two sides of the map couldn't shoot side to side as easily as Valhalla. This limited the firing lines of the DMR and made movement and flanking and choice matter. 343 even had the Anniversary maps get Reach-specific versions for matchmaking that adapted themselves to the updated sandbox with more movement options and cover.

Then they release Valhalla straight into this with zero changes. It was like they forgot everything they learned from Anniversary. It should have had Halo 4 specific changes with the ability to Forge it into the original version.
 
Specifically, what were your issues with loadouts? Was it the perks, Boltshot that should have never appeared in the first place, or just the fact that they let you choose what weapons you wanted to spawn with?

How about a system like what I described above?
I feel that H4's loadouts are a lesson in how too many options can be a bad thing. Perks were a poor addition to the game overall and made yet another impossible way to determine your opponent's tactics until it was too late. Having close-range one-hit-kill and shield-stripping/immobilizing weapons like the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol (I'll go ahead and throw Plasma Grenades into it as well) immediately available were another huge misstep.

Your idea seems reasonable, but I'd take it one step further/back and say that loadouts should be, if they must be kept, tailored more toward the map and/or gametype and not to individual tastes.

Also, a pox on 343 for bringing back a semblance of powerups (Speed/Damage Boost), but keeping invisibility as an Armor Ability.
 

Chitown B

Member
I loved Reach and its multiplayer. It's a different flavor from Halo 3, sure, but its not nearly as terrible as Halo 4. But the DLC for it was handled so poorly. None of the DLC maps were particularly great, you could never play them because everyone in the lobby had to have them, and the whole situation with CE was just weird.

what? Reach had Armor Lock and no BR. Plus bloom. H4 was much better than Reach.
 

jem0208

Member
They weren't really minor issues when it completely changed the flow of a match in Halo.

I'm not sure I agree though. I'll admit, I don't play days upon days of Halo but I have put 30+ hours into 4's mp and it still feels like Halo. If you get over the fact that yes, there is some randomness, and yes some of the AAs being in loadouts is a bit odd (why isn't Active Camo a pickup??) etc. it's still fun just to run around shooting people.

Actually, I'm all for personalizing your weapon loadouts as long as they're balanced and don't include Shotguns. If people want to spawn with an AR and Plasma Rifle, why not? That's their decision. If people want to spawn with a BR and an AR, why not? If people want to spawn with a Pistol and Plasma Rifle, why not?

The way I thought/wanted Halo 4 to be was to have a list of starting weapons to choose from that you would place in your primary/secondary slots, not what we received with Primaries being one list and Secondaries being a separate list. It required the need of a perk if you wanted to use an AR with a BR, which was a silly design decision for a Halo game when what I mentioned would've worked much better.

Perks......... the hell with them!

I agree that loadouts obviously need to be balanced, the fact that you could have a boltshot was a bit unbalanced (it never frustrated me all that much though). However I'm not sure I agree with the primary/secondary part. I actually think that we you shouldn't have been able to spawn with two primaries, although the compromise of loosing a perk was sort of balanced I guess. I think it would be better if you were locked to primary and a secondary to encourage the use of secondaries as well as increasing the importance of learning the maps to know weapon placements (My biggest issue with 4's mp was actually the lack of weapons on the map).

Regarding perks, again I'm not that bothered by them. They didn't drastically effect the gameplay like some of CoD's (I don't like the perk which allows you to survive vehicle explosions though). Honestly I quite like the idea of perks, allowing you to somewhat modify yourself to suit your specific playstyle or a certain situation. If they make a return in Halo 5 I think they should be modified so that they have both benefits and drawbacks to make them somewhat more balanced, e.g: faster reloads but a smaller magazine, faster shield recharge but takes longer to start recharging etc.

This just tells me you would've been fine either way, which is alright. I'm sure many Halo fans wish they were like you and could disregard/ignore/be oblivious to the details of what separates Halo from other shooters on the market. I'm not sure if you're considering Halo 4 launching with power weapons in Ordnance Drops being a good thing, but that doesn't change the fact that it's certainly not just a "minor issue" as it drastically changed how a single match was played.

I am fine either way. However I don't agree that what makes Halo stand out is the lack of loadouts etc. It still feels like Halo. You could change the graphics/art style so it was identical to CoD and I could still easily identify it as a Halo game. I don't think having power weapons in ordnance changes the game so drastically that it becomes a "CoD clone" or whatever people say. The game still plays and feels like Halo, that's the point I'm trying to make.

Also, while I don't necessarily think ordnance drops are a positive addition, I also don't think they're a negative addition. Drops aren't perfect but I think they're an interesting idea with some potential. I'm trying to say 4 is a perfect game and that the problems it has don't make any difference at all, however I think Halo needs to have some change or innovation. It can't stick with the same old formula. That's why I like 4, it feels like a Halo game when you play, yet it also feels fresh and new. The additions aren't perfect and they definitely need some polishing but I don't think the come anywhere close to ruining the game.



Edit: One way I think drops could be massively improved is if they were awarded to you when you spawn and remove power weapons from them. So build up enough points and you can have overshield/increased movement speed/active camo next time you spawn. This would stop people being in the middle of a fight then running away around a corner and coming back with a shotgun all of a sudden.
 

turcy

Member
i love halo 4 sp [best in the series], and i love halo 4 mp [most fun i had next to halo 2].

i can understand all the purists' angst towards the game's small departures from the "core halo experience", but i found them to all be improvements imho.

disclaimer;
this is coming from a man who's followed halo since its early mac development, and bought his first console [og xbox] just to play halo: ce.
 
Big maps work better when they're actually functionally big and you can't engage a target directly from anywhere on the map to anywhere on the map. It ruins actual strategy, flanking, movement, or any actual map pathing or flow. It just turns into a killing floor where people throw their bodies at the other side until they make it through in objective or you get pinged everywhere off spawn in Slayer.

Same thing happened to Blood Gulch in Reach. the 3x DMR zoom made it so you could hit things at absurd distances and turned it into a bonegrinder instead of a fun experience.


You have to change and adapt maps to sandbox changes to get them to work in other Halo games. Bungie made a Reach adapted Valhalla, that was Tempest. It fixed the middle hill problem by turning it into a canyon at the top middle of the map and made it so the two sides of the map couldn't shoot side to side as easily as Valhalla. This limited the firing lines of the DMR and made movement and flanking and choice matter. 343 even had the Anniversary maps get Reach-specific versions for matchmaking that adapted themselves to the updated sandbox with more movement options and cover.

Then they release Valhalla straight into this with zero changes. It was like they forgot everything they learned from Anniversary. It should have had Halo 4 specific changes with the ability to Forge it into the original version.

I don't disagree with the level design aspect of it, but Ragnarok could at least play closer to its predecessor if the aforementioned vehicles and weapons mimicked the original. Flinch is also heavily to blame for the issue you bring up.

Speaking of Tempest, I wish I'd gotten to play that map more before they made the DLC scarce
 

Jito

Banned
Any Halo game that allows multitudes of snipers and rockets on a map at any one time is fundamentally broken. There's no fun in not knowing who on the map has the rockets and that every player on the other team could have a power weapon for all the game cares.

Oh and DMR spawns in every game mode killed it as well. No one loves getting head shotted across the map over and over again. Swear they lowered the time to kill as well, shields felt like they were made of paper.
 

Doran902

Member
It wasn't a Halo game. It was some twisted, focus testing, market trending, buzz word monstrosity with a coat of paint to make it look like Halo.

Any Halo game that allows multitudes of snipers and rockets on a map at any one time is fundamentally broken. There's no fun in not knowing who on the map has the rockets and that every player on the other team could have a power weapon for all the game cares.

Oh and DMR spawns in every game mode killed it as well. No one loves getting head shotted across the map over and over again. Swear they lowered the time to kill as well, shields felt like they were made of paper.

Agreed.
 
Just played some Halo 4 MP for the first time since release.

It's better, but still not good. I got bored after five or six rounds and had to turn it off.
 
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