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Halo 5: Guardians |OT2| All Hail The Conquering Hero

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Sordid

Member
I'm not being an ass, but why is it always the same 2-3 guys complaining about lag? There's a ton of people here from overseas, and I never see much complaints from people I know like Ozzy(AUS) and Dani(Ireland?).

Because it happens to the same people a lot I'd imagine? Going straight from a match on an EU server to one on a US server is super jarring and it's worth posting about imo. Feels totally different, going from nice smooth games to being just behind the action/shots not registering etc is no fun.

I'm from the UK, and I never really feel like lag is or latency is in my games - better players than I, certainly. But not anything screwy server wise.

I would love to see videos of all this lag/latency - without wanting to sound like an ass, half of it is in your head. I remember Leyasu (?) posting a video claiming latency, and the vid showed he missed his shots and was outplayed. :/

I've recorded a few wee clips, kinda given up on it now though.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12818415

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12691841

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12551218

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12544716#t=8

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12528343

Edit: My internet is fine fwiw, solid if unspectacular. 28 meg down 9 meg up, has been connected for 18 days without any disconnects or errors. Asus RT-AC68U router which is decent enough, I'm wired up to my router and my NAT is open etc. Matches are either consistently good or bad, connections don't go to shit halfway through matches or anything like that. The only thing it can be is the server selection.

Edit 2: No-one else is using my connection when I'm online either to affect things.

I just think you exaggerate a lot, that's all.

As Sik said, the only video evidence any of you have posted showed that there was no lag, just lack of thumb skill, lol.

I mean I get plenty of games that I can tell aren't east coast servers, but it's certainly not bad enough that I need a refund.


I posted yesterday that I'm not rage posting or whining about being shit on, I won 4 out of 5 big team games last night but posted afterwards that none of the matches felt good connection wise. My clips show the worst of the lag I've experienced. Nothing to with lack of thumb skill on those clips
I have plenty 'lack of thumb skill' though, I've never claimed to be good at Halo!
 
One thing I find is people focus on the one bad game/encounter and kind of forget they just had 3 good games in a row. It's online multiplayer and it's going to have advantages and disadvantages that shift game by game, party by party and connection by connection.

Just have fun with it and try not to sweat the couple of kills where you know it was latency over being outplayed. IMO it's far more being outplayed than latency with H5 but latency is present when on non-local dedis and more so if you're foreign to the USA and playing solo or small party numbers.

Here's an example, I honestly wonder how good Speedy Blue Dude is. I'm not detracting from his skills and dedication to achieve such an awesome spread of ranks (congrats by the way, insane stuff mate) but when you're on USA Google fibre with 2ms latency and like a 1Tb up/down you have those pangs in the back of your mind that say there are advantages that come with such locales and connection qualities.

I'm sure the dude would wipe the floor with me, I'm not trying to compare e-peens here but illustrate a somewhat valid point about the nature of skill and latency when playing online.
 

BraXzy

Member
I do kinda understand the latency complaints from the UK folks (I'm a fellow UKian). Playing earlier in the day always feels slightly different to playing in the evening. Everything seems slightly more solid, whereas sometimes later on there does seem to be the slightest of latency issues.

But it's so hard to tell what was just you having an off day with aiming and what is actually server issues. Which is why a simple ping function would be useful. I will say this, unless it's the morning, I consistently play with/against people with US accents.
 
I just think you exaggerate a lot, that's all.

As Sik said, the only video evidence any of you have posted showed that there was no lag, just lack of thumb skill, lol.

I mean I get plenty of games that I can tell aren't east coast servers, but it's certainly not bad enough that I need a refund.

I just get pissed off at the bullshit this game servers sometimes, i've tried to ignore it but it effects the base gunplay for me, I've had times where I have melee killed someone, jetpack dashed back straight after the killing blow and half a second later fallen down from a beatdown, that tells me that on their screen I was never dashed back for saftey and that latency between us was meaning I could never escape.

maybe melee trades are a bad example since all halo games have had it in some form but that was alwas due to having a second or so dely between users too.
 
Because it happens to the same people a lot I'd imagine? Going straight from a match on an EU server to one on a US server is super jarring and it's worth posting about imo. Feels totally different, going from nice smooth games to being just behind the action/shots not registering etc is no fun.



I've recorded a few wee clips, kinda given up on it now though.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12818415

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12691841

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12551218

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12544716#t=8

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sordid Sentinel/video/12528343

Edit: My internet is fine fwiw, solid if unspectacular. 28 meg down 9 meg up, has been connected for 18 days without any disconnects or errors. Asus RT-AC68U router which is decent enough, I'm wired up to my router and my NAT is open etc. Matches are either consistently good or bad, connections don't go to shit halfway through matches or anything like that. The only thing it can be is the server selection.

Edit 2: No-one else is using my connection when I'm online either to affect things.

Edit 3: I posted yesterday that I'm not rage posting or whining about being shit on, I won 4 out of 5 big team games last night but posted afterwards that none of the matches felt good.

The ones recorded from the theatre are not really a good indication of what the game looked like to you during the match, it's (AFAIK) what things looked like from the server's perspective, but that's not what's used for hit detection / won't tell you who saw the other guy first and so on. I recorded a long clip of me doing some pretty rad plays on a US server a while ago which I had to record using the theatre and it looked COMPLETELY different with my aim completely off and slow reaction times even though I killed a lot of people.
 

Leyasu

Banned
Sorry to single you out man, but I think if there is a widespread issue, collecting and posting info with match links and vids of the experience would be good - perhaps info that could be collected and passed on to 343 to see if improvements can be made.

Don't apologise! Plus they know what is going on, there is no need to post vids for them as they are the ones who dictate the search parameters. Give us some options or drop the maximum ping ceiling to 60ms, and 99% of the posts regarding this will disappear. Although personally, I think that we should be able to select our criteria. Say minimum. 50ms upto 125ms max.

I can easily get vids of grenade delays or anything else ping related... If only to satisfy the curious on here.
 

Sordid

Member
The ones recorded from the theatre are not really a good indication of what the game looked like to you during the match, it's (AFAIK) what things looked like from the server's perspective, but that's not what's used for hit detection / won't tell you who saw the other guy first and so on. I recorded a long clip of me doing some pretty rad plays on a US server a while ago which I had to record using the theatre and it looked COMPLETELY different with my aim completely off and slow reaction times even though I killed a lot of people.

But that's what things looked like on my screen in those games, that's why I went to theater to record them afterwards. The only time I've been into theatre is when games have been full of teleporting etc and I wanted to capture it.

Only rare games have teleporting for me, usually it's the standard people eating shots/me getting shot round corners etc that happens fwiw.
 
But that's what things looked like on my screen in those games, that's why I went to theater to record them afterwards. The only time I've been into theatre is when games have been full of teleporting etc.

Fair enough. I'm not entirely sure how the theatre works but it's definitely not based on what your local experience was. It gets close for me when playing on EU servers hence why I suspect it might be server based (would also mean everyone should get the same replay so it's possible to check).
 
DocSuess, you wrote a technically solid article, but I disagree with damn near everything and mostly for one reason:

You have based your entire vision of Halo and what it's supposed to be on this notion of HEROISM. It's almost as if you fell for the ONI propaganda that surrounds Spartans, that they're super powerful and save their fellow soldiers in a pinch and that Halo theme with the pulsating drums in the background makes us feel like we're doing God's work.

But if there's anything that Halo represents, beyond the fact that EVERYTHING WAS THE FLOOD, it's that humans are and have always been their own worst enemies. You said that you couldn't stand that John-117 had been made a walking war crime or that Dr. Halsey made a mad scientist, but ... are you serious?

You're talking about a woman who scoped out 75 six-year old children (through vaccination of all things), kidnapped them, replaced them in their families with flash clones DOOMED TO DIE. Let me repeat that for you. Kidnapped kids, replaced them with doomed mirror children. Augmented beyond human capacity, causing 30 to die (STILL KIDS HERE) and 12 to be crippled and washed out.

You don't want to think of John-117 as a walking war crime? Boo hoo. That's too bad. He is. Every single Spartan II was a war crime. No amount of whitewashing will change that. You're wearing rose-tinted glasses. Bungie never truly addressed the moral issues surrounding the Spartan II project and 343i, though still not where they need to be narrative-wise, have shown a greater degree of respect to the fact than I ever really anticipated.

You don't think that Cortana's motivations make sense? Fine. But let's not forget that AIs have always had the bigger picture in mind and have never hesitated to take things into their own hands if given the power to. See Mendicant Bias for more. I'm not saying she's right, or that the execution around her return and her plan are flawless, but they work, in the grand scheme of things.

I've stated in this very thread and others that I think there was issues with the narrative and character development in Halo 5, so I don't need to do that again right now. But Bungie's Halo trilogy dismissed the Master Chief's humanity and the sticky, unethical moral ramifications of the Spartan II program almost completely. You don't like 343's Halo? There are many that don't.

But to act as if the ugly background of the central characters doesn't count just because it doesn't make you feel "MASTER CHIEF, HECK YEAH" is damn near disingenuous. What it says is that you don't love the actual story of Halo, you just love a certain feeling you associated with earlier games and are not happy that feeling has dispersed since the propaganda has ended.
 
I just get pissed off at the bullshit this game servers sometimes, i've tried to ignore it but it effects the base gunplay for me, I've had times where I have melee killed someone, jetpack dashed back straight after the killing blow and half a second later fallen down from a beatdown, that tells me that on their screen I was never dashed back for saftey and that latency between us was meaning I could never escape.

maybe melee trades are a bad example since all halo games have had it in some form but that was alwas due to having a second or so dely between users too.

Is your console directly wired in?
 

BradC00

Member

i get the teleporting thing and i'm in utah. i get 50 ping to both clusters of servers in gears.


what's with the clip of you on breakout grabbing the flag? i don't see anything wrong?

never played a game where people weren't having problems with lag tho
 

BraXzy

Member
I'm tempted to try and play this on my PC monitor instead of my crappy TV. My TV is 32" and doesn't correctly display 1080p lol.
 

Sordid

Member
i get the teleporting thing and i'm in utah. i get 50 ping to both clusters of servers in gears.


what's with the clip of you on breakout grabbing the flag? i don't see anything wrong?

never played a game where people weren't having problems with lag tho

That's not me grabbing the flag, I'm dead in that gif. It's the player teleporting around that's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/tHIinDp.gif[IMG]

Edit: Oops, gif is 40 meg! Removed it, here's a link to the gifv instead [url]http://i.imgur.com/tHIinDp.gifv[/url] it's hard to hit teleporting people (which admittedly doesn't happen that often as I said, it's the some of the worst lag I've had in H5 though)

I get decent pings to Euro servers, here's a screenshot from Titanfall:

[QUOTE][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ECRpV62.png[/QUOTE]
 

BradC00

Member
That's not me grabbing the flag, I'm dead in that gif. It's the player teleporting around that's the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/tHIinDp.gif[IMG]

Edit: Oops, gif is 40 meg! Removed it, here's a link to the gifv instead [url]http://i.imgur.com/tHIinDp.gifv[/url] it's hard to hit teleporting people (which admittedly doesn't happen that often as I said, it's the some of the worst lag I've had in H5 though)[/QUOTE]

gotcha. don't know what to tell you but i get it too and my connection is pretty stable.
 

maximrace

Member
Belgium here, and like I allready said a few times zero problems here. Played 50+ hours and I maybe had 5 games out of area or with lagg.

Note: I live really close to an azure datacenter (ping =30ms), could explain why I'm always matched there)
 
So, why is Firefight seemingly dead? After playing through the campaign on both Heroic and Legendary what is the person who doesn't care much for the competitive multiplayer modes to do? Zero endgame content. Firefight kept me playing ODST and Reach long after release. I can't be alone on this and I find it odd considering Firefight was one of the better horde modes out there and was moving in the right direction with customization, matchmaking, etc.

Sure, I'll play through the campaign again with skulls on and do additional runs as I do multiple times throughout the year with all the Halo campaigns but it sure would be nice to see Firefight return.
 
Good article, I agree with a lot of your points. The story was disappointing to say the least and you summed up why nicely, this character you've grown with and learned to love literally turns evil for no very apparent reason on a whim. It could have been okay but it just happened with not build up room reason. I just feel there are so many different directions they could have taken with this game, why this?

I do disagree about the gameplay, I thought it was great for the most part though you do make some great points (like how useless a sniper is towards Promethans). The new spartan abilities are incredibly fun to use and the levels were designed in a way that took advantage of them.

I'm actually nervous about the next game, if I have to fight Promethean for an entire campaign it won't go over well with me unless they drastically redesign them but 343i will find some stupid reason to include covenant as baddies just because they are superior enemy types.

343i needs to take some tips from Bungie... People don't want bullet spongie enemies. If anything the best enemies are the ones that require skill in shooting different parts of the body and some feedback when you do... The regular Promethean are just bullet sponge until you expose that core and then it's fun to finish them off.

Have you played Destiny?

343i and Bungie fell into the same damn pit.
 

Sordid

Member
gotcha. don't know what to tell you but i get it too and my connection is pretty stable.

My connection is stable too. Maybe I'm just unlucky? :(

I'll stop posting about it anyway, don't want to be shitting up the thread with my connection woes. I'm happy for everyone whose Halo 5 experience is consistent, hopefully mine will be eventually as well because the game is super fun!
 
So, why is Firefight seemingly dead? After playing through the campaign on both Heroic and Legendary what is the person who doesn't care much for the competitive multiplayer modes to do? Zero endgame content. Firefight kept me playing ODST and Reach long after release. I can't be alone on this and I find it odd considering Firefight was one of the better horde modes out there and was moving in the right direction with customization, matchmaking, etc.

Sure, I'll play through the campaign again with skulls on and do additional runs as I do multiple times throughout the year with all the Halo campaigns but it sure would be nice to see Firefight return.

I am hoping firefight or another PVE mode like it is added in an update. The REQ system is just perfect for something like that and since they already have AI in Warzone it seems like the groundwork is already there. Just spawn 4 players in the Spire/Garage and make them defend it against waves of AI with standard Warzone REQ functionality. I never played much firefight in the previous entries but I'd really like to have the option to try out my more awesome REQs in a less competitive environment.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I really enjoyed your article. I think you've nailed a lot of the problems with the modern Halo story. I've played 4 but I've yet to play 5--after your article, I'm not sure that I will.

My one critique is that I'm not sure you've captured the extent to which Halo's backstory and character development have always been missing from the games themselves. It's much worse now, but it's always been bad. It was really Eric Nylund that gave John 117 a set of believable motivations and a coherent history. Same for Dr. Halsey. Without this context, Master Chief is nothing more than a patriotic Clint Eastwood character in power armor.

It's partly because, based on an interview with someone responsible for all those extended universe things... Bungie didn't want or care about that stuff. Bungie didn't want Nylund to write those books, for instance. A lot of the EU stuff was apparently very Microsoft-pushed, not Bungie-pushed.

Halo is heroic military SF.

The expanded universe is a lot more.

The same is true of Star Wars.

Like others have said, it's a well-written article. I disagree with a lot of it though but I'm work and given the effort and care you've put into the article, I don't want to half-ass my own response.

I think what's clear though is that 343 and fans alike would benefit greatly if the next Halo game had a vast codex/library like with Mass Effect games. That could help keep the ever-growing backstory fresh in people's minds from game to game.

I know you didn't mention it in your article, but one person in this thread stated "How did Halsey lose her arm"? Well she lost her arm in the previous damn game. A codex would help out with keeping things that have already happened in previous game fresh in people's minds, and also enriching people's knowledge with codex entries from the expanded universe, stuff that's never been in games but that people can finally read about in codex/library.

A codex is the worst way to tell a story, though. You should tell your story in your story. Establish your characters quickly, keep your scenes nice and short, make everyone's motives extremely clear and always give those motives room to breathe.

But my background is in screenwriting, so I have specific feelings on how to handle this stuff.

A) Sure, there were still a lot of similarities in CE (forerunner mysteries, 343's foreboding dialogue, questions about the motivations of the covenant and the flood...), not to forget the Cortana letters which Bungie more or less completely retconned in Halo 3 (as I was reminded a couple of days ago in this thread). Halo 2 explained a lot of things too quickly and for example the gravemind in 2/3 was absolute butchery of what should have been a really cool character IMO, he should have been left in the terminals and not forced into cutscenes.

B) Yeah, I don't disagree, obviously this is just my opinion as a fan of the series and I can't claim to speak for anyone else.

C) I'd be interested in knowing how this ties into the complete rewrite of the Destiny story and all of the writers leaving soon afterwards... AFAIK all that is known about this stuff is that the Bungie heads weren't interested in the extended universe, but many of the writers were obviously actively engaged in fleshing it out and happily considered Nylund's work completely canon.

As I said I absolutely agree that the way they are telling their story is not working and your Ferrari analogy hits the mark for me, but I can't agree with your complaints about the actual story they are telling.

B) Yeah, and I hope I conveyed that this is what I think Halo should be, and this is why I come to Halo, and other people have completely different, equally valid reasons for coming to the series.

C) As I understand it, there are mechanical people at Bungie and story people, and Bungie has always prioritized the mechanical people.

Right, what I'm trying to do is say "the thing I came to Halo for is gone." I could do another piece explaining what I feel are faults with Halo 4 and 5 on a storytelling mechanics level, just like I could do another place explaining what I feel about the game's actual mechanics, but we're talking about ~9600 total words on Halo 5 at that point. So for this one, I went with this "Here's what I like about Halo, and 343i doesn't do that specific thing."

Nope I don't buy that for me personally. It is Bungie's fault in making what is in essence a simple Space Marine Pew Pew game hard to follow. It wasn't all that easy at the best of times to understand. What someone already said afterwards, the extended universe information is where the meat of the story is and people interested in understanding more need to go that route and were rewarded if they did.

Halo has always been about a singular place and time to jump into and have action. The story was never going to be that meaningful.

I do agree Halo 4 was in that same vein of what the heck is happening here, but Halo 5 was not that hard to understand for me at all. But I am biased because HUNT THE TRUTH campaign added so much other material as well that I followed, could reflect on and add it to my campaign experience.

We just have different view points.

The story in the earlier games meant more to me. Feel free to downplay it, but I personally found it valuable, so I wrote an article on what it meant to me and why I cared. I don't think that's a problem. "You're thinking too much about something that doesn't matter" isn't really a valuable contribution to the conversation, is it?


Part of me wants to write a serious response. The other part of me is about to go watch The Martian. I saved a response to you for last, but this post is already long as it is.

Ok you're hired.

Start at Chief waking up at 4 and give me a galactic spanning threat that can compete with the flood and OG covenant firing off the Halo rings.

Make me feel like a hero every step of the way.

Question #1: Why do I have to start after the fight has been finished? Seriously, I'd be more inclined to write about games for other characters at the beginning of the war. That was a long war with plenty of interesting engagements. My instinct would be to have a more personal war story.

Question #2: Why does the protagonist have to be Chief? There was nothing wrong with being Locke, but everything wrong with being a secondary character in Chief's story. Like, if Chief had been a major player in ODST or Reach, they would have sucked, but he wasn't, so, y'know, they were awesome.

Now, let's say I did start with your premise.

My story would have gone with the line "you ARE Forerunner" from the first game. I would have made Humanity the Forerunner, and I would have gone into a story detailing the origin story of The Flood and the Forerunner's downfall. Basically, I would have explored all the stuff that 343 did in the Greg Bear books, but I would have done that in a game where humans were the Forerunner and there were other big bads out there that had created The Flood. But that's trying to work as closely with what 343i did as possible, and I'd much rather do grand departures from that or do more intimate Covenant War stories.

The gameplay stuff on the other hand has me confused. Halo 5 is probably the least challenging Halo game up until Legendary. You can absolutely run and gun on Heroic except when you're in the middle of a giant firefight and they all have Suppressors. You're otherwise not penalized for it because the AI behavior is easy read and exploit, even in spite of whatever sponginess they may exhibit. It's definitely improved over Halo 4, where you could be out of an Elite's awareness bubble and shoot them until they died right where they stood. But there have been many instances where the AI has stopped shooting at me entirely while my team revived me (if they eve managed to get to me), including the Warden. The only way I beat the last fight on my first playthrough was because Warden didn't slash my whole team when he stood right on top of us.

I don't know what to tell you. My team of robot friends couldn't kill a single elite. I'd hit guys with entire clips without them going down. Individual kills were absolutely taking more shots than they did on Reach Heroic, and my health overall felt significantly less.

DocSuess, you wrote a technically solid article, but I disagree with damn near everything and mostly for one reason:

You have based your entire vision of Halo and what it's supposed to be on this notion of HEROISM. It's almost as if you fell for the ONI propaganda that surrounds Spartans, that they're super powerful and save their fellow soldiers in a pinch and that Halo theme with the pulsating drums in the background makes us feel like we're doing God's work.

But if there's anything that Halo represents, beyond the fact that EVERYTHING WAS THE FLOOD, it's that humans are and have always been their own worst enemies. You said that you couldn't stand that John-117 had been made a walking war crime or that Dr. Halsey made a mad scientist, but ... are you serious?

You're talking about a woman who scoped out 75 six-year old children (through vaccination of all things), kidnapped them, replaced them in their families with flash clones DOOMED TO DIE. Let me repeat that for you. Kidnapped kids, replaced them with doomed mirror children. Augmented beyond human capacity, causing 30 to die (STILL KIDS HERE) and 12 to be crippled and washed out.

You don't want to think of John-117 as a walking war crime? Boo hoo. That's too bad. He is. Every single Spartan II was a war crime. No amount of whitewashing will change that. You're wearing rose-tinted glasses. Bungie never truly addressed the moral issues surrounding the Spartan II project and 343i, though still not where they need to be narrative-wise, have shown a greater degree of respect to the fact than I ever really anticipated.

You don't think that Cortana's motivations make sense? Fine. But let's not forget that AIs have always had the bigger picture in mind and have never hesitated to take things into their own hands if given the power to. See Mendicant Bias for more. I'm not saying she's right, or that the execution around her return and her plan are flawless, but they work, in the grand scheme of things.

I've stated in this very thread and others that I think there was issues with the narrative and character development in Halo 5, so I don't need to do that again right now. But Bungie's Halo trilogy dismissed the Master Chief's humanity and the sticky, unethical moral ramifications of the Spartan II program almost completely. You don't like 343's Halo? There are many that don't.

But to act as if the ugly background of the central characters doesn't count just because it doesn't make you feel "MASTER CHIEF, HECK YEAH" is damn near disingenuous. What it says is that you don't love the actual story of Halo, you just love a certain feeling you associated with earlier games and are not happy that feeling has dispersed since the propaganda has ended.

The actual story of Halo is what you get in Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo ODST, and Halo Reach.

The story you're presenting is extrapolated from a lot of expanded universe stuff. I like the universe. It's really cool. I've read almost every novel that was released. But that's not why I play the games. 343i might be presenting a world consistent with Microsoft's lore, but it's tonally inconsistent with the games that I enjoyed playing. I didn't buy into "ONI propaganda," because that's expanded universe bullshit. I bought into the experience of being the Master Chief (and Noble Six and The Rookie).

The best decision Disney made in regards to Star Wars was killing its expanded universe and getting back to basics: what made Star Wars appealing? Why do people go to watch the Star Wars MOVIES? And then they tried (dunno if they succeeded yet) to make a series of movies about that particular feeling. So, yeah, there are definitely elements that would be problematic, like kidnapping kids to make them super soldiers, but... what's "realistic" and what's interesting about Halo/Star Wars are different things.
 

Jinaar

Member
What I wonder is if people are seeing HALO in 2002 nostalgic lenses. It was a different time and place in gaming and HALO was a beast. Could we have forgiven it's faults and has time been favorable to HALO because of that?

I see that 343i approached their HALO 5 story differently and actually I really enjoyed it. I wouldn't have played the game twice and probably a third time shortly. I haven't done that in a HALO game yet. (I will once I get my ass in gear to finish all the games in MCC)

You have a public forum with Kotaku to talk about your opinion. Heck you may even gotten paid for it. And here I post on a public forum and not get paid and have my own opinion that HALO 5 is evolving and building a bigger universe that I want to see more of.

I've been with HALO since 2002. We seem to have had different journeys. I like Master Chief more today then ever before.
 

Montresor

Member
A codex is the worst way to tell a story, though. You should tell your story in your story. Establish your characters quickly, keep your scenes nice and short, make everyone's motives extremely clear and always give those motives room to breathe.

But my background is in screenwriting, so I have specific feelings on how to handle this stuff.

Could not disagree more. Halo lore is vast and the only way to disseminate all of it is with codex at this point. And that does not mean that you can't also tell your story within your story, which I think 343 did well in Halo 5. The story is about Osiris chasing Blue Team, about Cortana being revived and cured of rampancy, and her becoming a villain. This is all communicated effectively within the game's cutscenes.

An example are the series of missions in the middle dealing with the Arbiter. We know the Arbiter is important within the context of Halo 5 - cutscenes/conversations show us that he's leading a civil war, and he controls an elite group of soldiers called Swords of Sanghelios. They quickly establish his character and then the story/campaign moves along with us fighting alongside the Arbiter. We need the Swords of Sanghelios to get to a Guardian, and the only way to reach this goal is to help the Arbiter. Simple.

But does 343 really need to spell out Arbiter's entire history (why is he called the Arbiter, how he destroyed planet Reach, why he's considered a "good guy" now)? When people who've played the previous games know this already? We can keep the same effective cutscenes from Halo 5, and then supplement that with codex entries describing the detailed history addressed in previous games.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Could not disagree more. Halo lore is vast and the only way to disseminate all of it is with codex at this point. And that does not mean that you can't also tell your story within your story, which I think 343 did well in Halo 5. The story is about Osiris chasing Blue Team, about Cortana being revived and cured of rampancy, and her becoming a villain. This is all communicated effectively within the game's cutscenes.

An example are the series of missions in the middle dealing with the Arbiter. We know the Arbiter is important within the context of Halo 5 - cutscenes/conversations show us that he's leading a civil war, and he controls an elite group of soldiers called Swords of Sanghelios. They quickly establish his character and then the story/campaign moves along with us fighting alongside the Arbiter. We need the Swords of Sanghelios to get to a Guardian, and the only way to reach this goal is to help the Arbiter. Simple.

But does 343 really need to spell out Arbiter's entire history (why is he called the Arbiter, how he destroyed planet Reach, why he's considered a "good guy" now)? When people who've played the previous games know this already? We can keep the same effective cutscenes from Halo 5, and then supplement that with codex entries describing the detailed history addressed in previous games.

A better decision would have been to pull a Disney and kill all the lore and start it over.

What I wonder is if people are seeing HALO in 2002 nostalgic lenses. It was a different time and place in gaming and HALO was a beast. Could we have forgiven it's faults and has time been favorable to HALO because of that?

I see that 343i approached their HALO 5 story differently and actually I really enjoyed it. I wouldn't have played the game twice and probably a third time shortly. I haven't done that in a HALO game yet. (I will once I get my ass in gear to finish all the games in MCC)

You have a public forum with Kotaku to talk about your opinion. Heck you may even gotten paid for it. And here I post on a public forum and not get paid and have my own opinion that HALO 5 is evolving and building a bigger universe that I want to see more of.

I've been with HALO since 2002. We seem to have had different journeys. I like Master Chief more today then ever before.

I don't have nostalgia lenses for the series, no. Last night, I played a bunch of the games to get screenshots for the article, and in the process, I realized I really did hate playing Halo 4, and I actually had way more fun playing Halo 2, which is the only Bungie game I actively dislike. Seriously, replaying Halo 2, at least in the face of Halo 4, I was like "huh, I should totally play more Halo 2. I am having fun again."
 
i'm going to have to disagree with your team not being able to kill an Elite. Linda will snipe anyone I target almost instantly.

Are you giving them power weapons? They're no where near as responsive as real players, but they can take out trash well enough.

Also don't notice any bullet sponginess on the Covenant moreso than previous games (i'd say Reach Elites vs DMR was the worst, with Halo 2 Brutes not being far behind). The soldiers on the other hand just lack the feedback that makes it appear as though you're damaging them until their core exposes. Same problem the Prometheans had in the previous game.
 

cleansock

Banned
I made my first gif ever(which looks horrible on my 1440p monitor). I call it "a little help".
uqvbl.gif
 

ShutterMunster

Junior Member
I cannot believe people are in here caping for the squad A.I. Unless there is some serious code variation between game copies the squad A.I is indefensible. They would walk over to me and fail to revive me several times. Their lack of situational awareness was infuriating. I'd command them to get into vehicles and instead of jumping into a warthog together (one in driver/one on gunner) they'd split up into different vehicles or one would remain on foot. The A.I was atrocious.
 

Madness

Member
The big difference is what matters and how you approach it. At the end of Reach the game, Halsey is a hero and talking about Noble Six sacrifice and how they'll rebuild. In Halo 4 she's in handcuffs and is literally worse than Hitler. I don't fault 343 for the change. They have to tell another story now that the fight was finished. So they chose to focus on things that weren't delved into before. What was the reason for the Spartan program, was it ethical, etc. They chose to focus on rampancy in Cortana and a Covenant and Sangheili now in civil war. I don't necessarily like it either, but what do you expect then? There's only so many places the story can go. The primary trilogy is done and done for all time. That can never be recreated. We'll never have that feeling of stepping onto a Halo, seeing an Elite, facing a Hunter, finding the flood etc.

The biggest issue I have with Halo 5 is that it literally played nothing like I expected in terms of where the story would go and gave FAR too much time to characters I don't give a shit about, and won't in the future (level design and enemy design no real issues with).
 
A better decision would have been to pull a Disney and kill all the lore and start it over.



I don't have nostalgia lenses for the series, no. Last night, I played a bunch of the games to get screenshots for the article, and in the process, I realized I really did hate playing Halo 4, and I actually had way more fun playing Halo 2, which is the only Bungie game I actively dislike. Seriously, replaying Halo 2, at least in the face of Halo 4, I was like "huh, I should totally play more Halo 2. I am having fun again."

To be perfectly frank, fuck that. The best Halo stories have always been in the books. Could 343 have done a better job integrating them into the games? Yes, absolutely.

But abandoning them would have been a huge mistake, IMO. This isn't the Star Wars EU where things just became so overwrought and generally awful that nothing significant could be salvaged from it.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I cannot believe people are in here caping for the squad A.I. Unless there is some serious code variation between game copies the squad A.I is indefensible. They would walk over to me and fail to revive me several times. Their lack of situational awareness was infuriating. I'd command them to get into vehicles and instead of jumping into a warthog together (one in driver/one on gunner) they'd split up into different vehicles or one would remain on foot. The A.I was atrocious.

I just wonder if certain scenarios cause bugs in the AI loop. I had just 1 single instance when the AI wouldn't revive me, and I could tell it was just a bug. My body got stuck beneath a rock, and all of the AI including the enemy AI just stopped fighting and started bantering. Buck actually stood peacefully next to the elite that killed me, and they both watched as i died.

Other than that, the AI went where I wanted, when I wanted, and did what I told them too.
 

Madness

Member
Something I've been thinking about, is Speedy now the best Halo player from HaloGAF? An 18 month GAF ban and nonstop CSGO seem to have done wonders.
 

ShutterMunster

Junior Member
I just wonder if certain scenarios cause bugs in the AI loop. I had just 1 single instance when the AI wouldn't revive me, and I could tell it was just a bug. My body got stuck beneath a rock, and all of the AI including the enemy AI just stopped fighting and started bantering. Buck actually stood peacefully next to the elite that killed me, and they both watched as i died.

Other than that, the AI went where I wanted, when I wanted, and did what I told them too.

Wow. This happened repeatedly to my friend and I. We played through the game on Heroic in 2 sessions. If we went down we knew we were doomed because the A.I was just so inept. I'm not sure they ever killed anyone really. Those Warden battles? Pfft, it may as well have been us two vs the world.
 
I don't know what I've done if I had the power at 343.

For all the good & enjoyable EU stuff that exists around Halo (there's crud too) they've never been good at executing it in game.

There is so much to say on this topic..
 

Nutter

Member
Refused a refund, xbox support wanted to try and trouble shoot the lag issue lol, I left my feedback on the matter (true feedback, not a rage swear filled reply) and that was that :/

I'm rather bummed out that I have a game based around the US when it comes to multiplayer and it sucks.

I even bought up the single return game pass people seem to get but they said it was a game by game basis, I could tell they did not want to refund me.

Isnt that true for most MP [Shooter] games? And every previously released Halo? where dedicated servers were not even a thing?
 
Nice, interesting discussions around here!
I don't know what I've done if I had the power at 343.

For all the good & enjoyable EU stuff that exists around Halo (there's crud too) they've never been good at executing it in game.

There is so much to say on this topic..
There's so much to say that I'm choosing not to say anything at all lol; it's quite the conundrum! So much I agree with, so much I disagree with.. One thing I do feel compelled to comment on though is this:
It's partly because, based on an interview with someone responsible for all those extended universe things... Bungie didn't want or care about that stuff. Bungie didn't want Nylund to write those books, for instance. A lot of the EU stuff was apparently very Microsoft-pushed, not Bungie-pushed.
One of several reasons why I'm glad Bungie doesn't own the Halo franchise.
TOP TIER GAME WINNING PLAY

This is just the most. The most.
lmfao.. That's how it's done!
 
Lmao did he really say he should consult microsoft because of one article that laid out his emotional cry?

Lol ill bite my tounge and open some popcorn.


Ps. If we did a haf tourny. Id win.


The losers trophy :(
 
I cannot believe people are in here caping for the squad A.I. Unless there is some serious code variation between game copies the squad A.I is indefensible. They would walk over to me and fail to revive me several times. Their lack of situational awareness was infuriating. I'd command them to get into vehicles and instead of jumping into a warthog together (one in driver/one on gunner) they'd split up into different vehicles or one would remain on foot. The A.I was atrocious.

i mean the AI is wonky as hell but they aren't literally unable to kill anything.
 
Isnt that true for most MP [Shooter] games? And every previously released Halo? where dedicated servers were not even a thing?

In this day and age I should be able to see pings and even pick a location server with 50 ping, I was able to do this in the quake 3 and unreal days, but sadly not in 2015 unless I go and play titanfall.

Titanfall might open it's searches up to be more global if not enough are online but usually at peak times that's not an issue, or never was an issue it's been a little while since I last played.

The old methods of having someone become host was just as bad but it was more of a roll of the dice as to who had host, if you had someone in your local area it was sweet, if you were the host even better! but in halo 5 I feel like it's way too common to have a match with west coast players playing from europe.

When I do get a local connection and everything falls into place I can take out foes like I have host advantage, other times i'm landing 4 BR bursts up close and hitting with a melee and all i've done is popped their shields while someone else will 3 hit me and kill me with a beatdown, it's annoying.

I just played some matches tonight 4 v 4 with my cousin as a team partner, the matches felt better partly because it was only finding 8 people and not 16 since i've been playing BTB a lot, there was still a match or two where I felt like evading while in battle was pretty much not doing anything for me as the latency on their end would have not seen me dash away, thus being killed through a corner.

Going to take a break from moaning and from halo 5 for a bit, see how things feel once I get back.
 

Madness

Member
Isnt that true for most MP [Shooter] games? And every previously released Halo? where dedicated servers were not even a thing?

HaloMap-24h-49f-t.gif


The glory of Halo 3 launch night.

I'm genuinely curious if people think the game plays better now than a Halo 2, Halo 3 or Halo:Reach online ever did, especially outside NA. All I know is, I don't think I've had a single instance of rubber banding, lag, etc. That best coast dominance.

Pretty much every major game is going to be US dominated, especially shooters.
 
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