Papasmurf531
Member
The tournament was a lot of fun to watch! Wish the finals were a bit more exciting, but at least it was not as much of a blow out as last years.
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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
Welfare
Member
Was just about to post this. Really interesting actually, funny about those saying this ranking system sucks and that they wanted 1-50 back.
Also, might as well post this here as well because I didn't get a response in the other thread:
I was thinking we should have a general HCS thread for pro league and scrims etc. Anyone else agree? It's been quite nice seeing a few people who aren't HaloGAF regulars talking about it here.
My issue with this is that it doesn't really address one of the fundamental issues with the CSR/ELO distribution:
Infinity on TeamBeyond said:
I think that using the increased numbers on Overwatch's end leads to an increase in the fidelity of the rating itself, making it easier to match players more closely aligned in skill. That being said, ranked matches in Halo 5 are kind of pointless when there are more than twice as many ranked playlists as there should be.
Could be due to Halo wanting more of a hill-climb while Overwatch is using a more 'pure' elo that will sort everyone more closely resembling a normal distribution. It's why Halo 3 had modifications to the formula that 'enforced' you going through the lower ranks before getting to the upper ones instead of going like 1 - 20 - 45 - 30 - 37 - 24 - 30 - 31 - 32 - 33. It's also why starting with Reach placement was just hidden instead while Trueskill settled down to a number that wouldn't jump around before they displayed where you end up to keep people from smurf blitzing.
If it's literally Halo 3's TS remapped then the hill climb formula would be in there too, inducing the slow climb up but then a wider gap at the top
If it's literally Halo 3's TS remapped then the hill climb formula would be in there too, inducing the slow climb up but then a wider gap at the top
Now people are going to want to know if they were a Halo 3 60/70 lol
I believe that's Infinity's post and his interpretation of that data doesn't actually highlight the problem he thinks it does. It actually doesn't highlight a problem at all. That bolded statement is meaningless. There's also the issue of comparing to proprietary numerical systems without having the slightest clue how their algorithms compare. This was pointed out to him and he conceded the point.
The reason the CSR differential in the onyx division is so much larger than the rest of the divisions is because it is unbounded, while the lowest division can't go below zero.
This makes perfect sense because a player can have zero skill, but he can't have negative skill. On the flip side, even the best players will always have room to improve.
When it comes to determining the CSR differentials for each division, the CSR ranges per division are statistically irrelevant. What's important is that a plot of player skill rankings reveals that the population within each division is in line with the desired standard deviation curve.
Even before menke came back and tweaked things, onyx with its massive CSR distribution only made up 7% of the population. I think he came and tweaked the threshold so it would be under 3%..
If you look at Halo5s population data, it ALWAYS followed a normal distribution.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
Looking to get back into some Halo MP (maybe gears as well), do we have any teams rolling around in here I can tag along with soonish? Was really good at Halo back in the day, have not played in a while so might be a bit rusty at first.
I dunno if it's because there's barely anyone playing Proving Grounds of if the game thinks I'm far better than I actually am but holy fuck the matchmaking has shit the bed recently. These are my last three matches on Proving Grounds:
Those are actually EU pros, I checked their gamertags...
Those are actually EU pros, I checked their gamertags...
Prinz Eugn
Member
Yeah, this makes wading into ranked again unappealing to me.
To be fair this was only Proving Grounds. I played a few good games of Team Arena afterwards.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I don't want to go back to the default radar, so if they decide against implementing the Proving Grounds radar elsewhere, I may just stick to BTB/Warzone until we get that Achilles helmet, at which point I'll probably only play Custom Games with the occasional Team Skirmish.
And on the discussion of ranked playlists, I'm not sure if it's in Halo's best interest to have so many. With Halo 6, I'd like for there to only be two ranked playlists (HCS (Team Arena renamed, includes official HCS gametypes) and TS) with the rest being unranked. The notion of "just disregard the ranks in ranked playlists and accept your placements so the system can find you balanced matches" is simply not reality. I think a lot of problems stem from the stress of obtaining/maintaining ranks and the inevitable inadequacies of ranking systems.
BizzyBum
Member
There's usually some GAF parties playing nightly. Nothing competitive with arena, mostly warzone for some achilles grinding or BTB.
Samurai G0SU
Member
I wish i could only have a abilitu tracker for a slayer playlist.
Slayer is all i really enjoy.
Slayer is all i really enjoy.
Are there? I'm tired of playing solo although I don't speak much as I don't connect a mic.
Every BTB with randoms plays out like this scene: https://youtu.be/4xup4OMYCvY
I'm probably not going to get to SR 149 at this point until like early to mid May.
A lot of the more skilled halo 5 players are playing proving grounds right now. Also matchmaking if I recall is not as strict in proving grounds. So you will potentially play in matches sometimes where the players ranks range from like platinum to champion.
blue_phazon
Member
Have they announced what they're planning for HCS? Maybe a new league or something?
I hope there's some drastic changes cause obviously were not getting any new maps at this point.
Maybe this to start...
https://twitter.com/EDWSnip3down/status/846151692731113472
I hope there's some drastic changes cause obviously were not getting any new maps at this point.
Maybe this to start...
https://twitter.com/EDWSnip3down/status/846151692731113472
Forerunner
Member
It was probably G0SU.
YourExWife
Member
Lol at the Sprint twitter getting trolled.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Hes probably right you know .gif
Lol
Had a rough night, lots of quitters which was frustrating. Need to solo less. If any gaffers are gold tier and see me on the club list playing send me a message.
Haha, that's awesome.
Seeing a lot of the comments in that stream, i wish more of the vocal community liked the current mechanics. Sprint, slide, thrust, etc.,.is fun and is enjoyable to watch in the pro league.
jizzlobber
Member
I mostly like things how they are, grenade hit markers are probably a bit cheap bit you managed to take health off someone so you should get that feedback.
I'd probably prefer to have grenade hit markers stay.
And I like the spartan charge too, it's a lot of fun especially when you do it mid air.
Thrusting has to stay, no thrust would be a big step backwards.
I'd probably prefer to have grenade hit markers stay.
And I like the spartan charge too, it's a lot of fun especially when you do it mid air.
Thrusting has to stay, no thrust would be a big step backwards.
The only time you should get hit markers is when you can see the opponent taking damage or when you get a kill.
Grenade hit markers have turned random grenade spam into a necessary strat.
How can you advocate for something being in a game when you know it's cheap? Like how is that good design.
I seriously can't understand 343 at this point... i mean they are open to feedback, people especially the ones that care about competitive halo have said 1000 times the same things.
Just remove radar, grenade hitmarkers and remove autos or at least heavily reduce ammo count.
I can't see sprint removed now with all the jumps you can do in h5 so that's something they might consider for h6
Test this out in proving grounds now that HWC is over
Btw i am no pro at all and i don't mind having a dedicated playlist with those settings, everything else can stay as it is
Just remove radar, grenade hitmarkers and remove autos or at least heavily reduce ammo count.
I can't see sprint removed now with all the jumps you can do in h5 so that's something they might consider for h6
Test this out in proving grounds now that HWC is over
Btw i am no pro at all and i don't mind having a dedicated playlist with those settings, everything else can stay as it is
jizzlobber
Member
I hear ya... but look at it the other way, you see an opponent scurry behind cover, you bounce a grenade there as you can't shoot him, you should get hit markers for that so you can go in knowing you have a health bar advantage.
Also, can the game consistently know you have seen the enemy first anyway?
or
playing in a team, buddy gives you intel on the enemy location, you lob a grenade without even seeing them... again I think you should get hit markers for that.
I get the cons, but I simply think the game would be worse off without grenade hit markers.
that's just my take on it.
Proving Grounds radar > no radar.
SmartWaffles
Member
The proving grounds radar is definitely the best iteration so far, I do prefer no radar but this is totally fine. Autos are in a pretty good place considering their overall less presence on maps, it isn't broken in the first place and don't need a fix.
Fair enough if autos stay in, what about no radar no autos wouldn't that be completely different?
If the ability tracker radar ends up being better than no radar then sure no problem with that as long as most people agree
In the end what i am trying to say is 343 should listen to what competitive halo players want give it a try and see how it goes
The problem with no radar isn't autos, it's how you can fly around the map with almost no repercussions. The game becomes too chaotic.
New radar requires increased awareness and allows for flanking etc. just like no radar whilst also encouraging running over sprinting everywhere. It forces players to consider how they move around the map. Whether or not to sprint becomes an actual tactical decision rather than the default given way of moving.
True i can see that being a problem online where most people don't have mics
But from what i've seen in HWC pro teams cover most of sighlines/routes with taking advantage of good map positioning so it's hard to fly through the map without being seen
Now the problem goes from balance the game for hcs pros and teams of 4 that communicate versus online pros that end up solo queueing most of the time
Pros are also the ones beat able to abuse the movement mechanics. They're able to fly across the map and collapse on a team as soon as they get a kill. Good map positioning becomes pretty irrelevant when you can move so quickly with so little penalty.
If you see someone scurry, and you throw a good grenade, you should be confident that you damaged him. If you aren't confident, then you should just call him out.
This particular game, for better or worse, also has mechanics that allow you to dart in, assess the scene, then dart out if you don't like your odds.
There's way too much hand holding going on, and it leads to bad behaviors, like nade spam.
Samurai G0SU
Member
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
While I don't really need/want grenade hitmarkers, the bolded isn't true because of grenade hitmarkers. "Grenade spam" has always been a smart strategy in Halo games, especially in Halo 1 and 2 because they allowed you to have 4 of each type at a time. They are in such abundance in Halo 1 that it's a great strategy to bank grenades everywhere in anticipation of enemy movement. Predictions, covering angles, blind spots, holding positions, etc.
That being said, I too would like them to go. I think it's cheap and unnecessary. If someone escapes and my grenades don't kill them, the game should let me decide right there if I should pursue them or not without giving away that information so easily. What I wouldn't mind are audible cues though, to know if enemies are low health after getting hit by a grenade, something like the grunts you'd hear in other games when getting hurt (e.g. Turok when he loses health lol, random example).
As much as it pains me to say this, knowing how much I prefer no motion tracker in general, but I think if sprint and Spartan Charge are to remain, then the Proving Grounds radar might be the best option we have.
Now, if Halo 6 multiplayer is not in any way connected to Halo 5, then I'd love for sprint to be removed. And if it's a matter of convincing the community at large, I have confidence they can pull that off with another feature of "The Sprint" ;]
He spawns with a bolt shot and suppressor EVERY.TIME
If sprint and the other abilities stay, we need the proving grounds radar. It actually punishes the over use of abilities. With no radar people would go back to sprinting and thrusting everywhere full time again.
blue_phazon
Member
I think the more interesting change would be no auto weapon at the start, and instead the AR is a pickup.
This would vastly change engagements, especially at close range.
This would vastly change engagements, especially at close range.
I'd like to play a custom game with a handful of the abilities disabled and base brought up to compensate. Like how would it play with sprint disabled, move speed at 125 (or something) but clamber still active? Or how does it play without smart link (I'm not even sure that's an option)?
I'd be up for that.
Pretty sure you can't disable smart link though.
Pistol only starts, ~125% movement speed ~120% jump height, no sprint, no radar. Would probably need to tweak strafe acceleration as well.
Doing the same thing right now lol...
I just put movement speed up to 120 and strafe speed to 110. Then I put jump gravity and Clamber speed to 90%
I'm trying to work out a way to keep clamber in for the really high and crazy jumps, but make it have a negative effect (i.e slower animation) if doing so instead of a crouch jump in some areas.
edit: Snipedown's opinion on what settings should be.
edit2: Observer mode causes lag in games with an Observer.... https://twitter.com/EDWSnip3down/status/846783896075218948
VincentMatts
Member
I have a somewhat halo related question for all yall. What exactly does bungie do that makes them so good at hyping their games before release as compared to 343?
I was just listening to the halo2 soundtrack and it got me remembering the hype for halo2 and 3. It was huge. 343 seems to struggle with creating hype while Bungie seem still very good at it with the Destiny 2 leak.
How is bungie so good at hype? Is it as easy as the last games overal quality will create hype for the next one?
P.S. and bring Marty back for Halo6. Dat music, so good.
I was just listening to the halo2 soundtrack and it got me remembering the hype for halo2 and 3. It was huge. 343 seems to struggle with creating hype while Bungie seem still very good at it with the Destiny 2 leak.
How is bungie so good at hype? Is it as easy as the last games overal quality will create hype for the next one?
P.S. and bring Marty back for Halo6. Dat music, so good.
I only wish Kazuma would riff on some classic themes more. New composers and sound directors don't like doing it because they all want to do their own thing, put their stamp on it. But I don't know, Halo had a very clear and recognizable theme. Look how much the monks instantly hit that nostalgia. Even with Breath of the Wild, some of the best themese like Hyrule Castle remix some classic stuff.
I still wouldn't mind having Marty back. He showed with Reach and Destiny, even with composing new stuff, he's still got it. But too busy with his new VR studio and that Golem game.
VincentMatts
Member
I agree. I honestly cant remember one song from 5 other than the one in the main menu. Thats usually a good sign that the music just isnt up to par (compared to marty's anyway).