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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

H

Haruko

Member
Cranster said:
The guy should have been more professional online. He literally said everyone at 343i should be fired. Not a select few people, EVERYONE!

343i probably feels that his attitude would be poisonous for their team and I don't blame them.

EDIT:
qprr3Yp1QKZDi4I0ltpcoaV20brzRoEGiiBsegNTEZKDCaLXywwy03W2uMFbLn-lSBJ-lhmj=w1366-h637-rw


It's one thing to post criticism, but that is the kind of shit that would worry any Human Resources manager.
Click to expand...

He also made that comment a mere 3 months ago, so yeah... I get why 343i made the call they did, even if the guy is talented at map design.
 
VincentMatts

VincentMatts

Member
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
Welp, there go your chances of working at 343, E92.


You think it's on the devs to decide on fixing TMCC? And do you think the vitriol spewed at 343 is justified?
Click to expand...

did you even read what i said?

edit: what im saying is "anger" towards a specific company doesnt start out of the blue. It happens when people are not being satisfied as regularly as they were before. When that happens, people start lashing out. Im not saying he was right to say what he said, im saying that this doesnt come out of nowhere. When 343 literally let some of their games "die" cause its "hard to fix", that makes people angry because they are not used to being treated this way. This type of behavior is a direct result of how 343 treated some of their games and ultimately its community. Was what he said overboard? Of course. But if 343 want less anger directed towards them, then maybe dont let your games die when its "too broken". Show the community youll go all out for them and youll get a lot less of this type of behaviors online.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
VincentMatts said:
did you even read what i said?
Click to expand...
I'm giving you the opportunity to better explain yourself because that dude flamed the entire studio, saying that no one at 343 deserves their jobs. In your post you suggest that it's understandable how there's so much hate thrown at 343 and even go so far as to imply that if the devs would just fix TMCC, then they wouldn't have shit flung their way. Why should the developers have to constantly face this level of vitriol when the decisions aren't in their hands? These types of blanket statements perpetuate the problems in gaming communities.

Even if TMCC was released without flaws, people would still be saying nonsense like "Fire everyone at incompetent 343 because these phonies don't care about Halo like I do!" Your statements on Today's Halo™ assume Halo is in such a terrible place where this level of toxicity is to be expected and should be accepted by 343.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
E92 M3 said:
It's embarrassing - talent is more important than some mean words. If 343 can't take criticism than things will never improve.
Click to expand...

Yeah they should grow a pair. Was the guy immature?sure! But that can change. he was good at what he does and he was passionate about halo.

Not only that, but it was a golden opportunity to extend an olive branch to the segment of the community that grinds EVERY game more than anyone else- even when they don't like it.

Now they just look petty, in addition to reluctant to heed criticism.
 
M

Madness

Member
Trup1aya said:
Yeah they should grow a pair.
Click to expand...

Yeah, publicly insult a company, state all of the employees should lose their jobs and then wonder why they won't hire you.

Why would 343 grow a pair for this? They can get or even poach talent far greater than whoever this shithead was.
 
J

jem0208

Member
To be fair to the guy, he himself has said that he blames himself rather than 343.

Like I said on beyond, over the past ~5 years I have posted a LOT of things about 343. I never denied that, just like I've had my Twitter since High school. If someone really wanted to dig up dirt I guarantee I've said a lot of stupid things over time. I don't blame 343, only myself. Despite everything I was excited to work with them, I would've given anything to work on Halo (hell I basically did, I put my entire savings into the move up there).
Click to expand...

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/72lv5x/-/dnjhmhl
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Madness said:
Yeah, publicly insult a company, state all of the employees should lose their jobs and then wonder why they won't hire you.

Why would 343 grow a pair for this? They can get or even poach talent far greater than whoever this shithead was.
Click to expand...
I don't see anyone wondering why they aren't getting hired...

Anyway, I'm still waiting on that classic 343 map. Meanwhile we get overgrowth and molten.

Perhaps they can and will poach some better talent, perhaps talent isn't the issue at hand- but it's been like 10 years

Perhaps this guy didn't "deserve" the opportunity. But I think it would've humbled him, I think it would have been a good opportunity for 343 and for bringing segments of the community together.

Oh well

/shrug
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
I think that the big thing (besides the, you know, harassment of cartographers) is that technical skills are never enough. Working in a professional environment means having good relationships with your coworkers. If you're baggage free, that just means having competent communication skills, but if you bring somebody in who's blasted the people (not even the product, but like an actual personal attack) then they're gonna struggle to get along with the rest of the team, which actively impacts their ability to do their job. It's not something you can separate out.
 
B

belushy

Banned
Shame. His maps have been great using forge. Imagine what he could have done with real tools.

He should look at First Strike Games, the studio Kevin Franklin is helm of if he cant get out of moving to Washington.
 
J

Juan

Member
YourExWife said:
This is the type of thing that happens all...the...time that we're talking about, Juan. In case you're wondering.
Click to expand...

Hey, I applied for a job at 343 (I really did btw) this summer which will help me give you the best Halo ever, and so far, 343's recruiter has been nice to me. Now you understand why I'm defending them like never before?! lol

Jokes aside, I clearly understand why no one is giving 343 the benefit of the doubt. Hell, I would be a damn liar if I said I couldn't understand this since I've been the first to criticize some decisions 343 made over the past few years and I've been there to see mistakes blowing away the community and Halo as a whole.

On this particular point (tweaking the BR), I was evaluating the amount of work required to retool the BR like most of you asked for here over what we actually got, and I just truly think, and somehow hope, they gave us this tweaked BR because from all the settings they could have thought to change the BR, they thought this was the best solution they could afford (and because, so far, I'm having a ton of fun with those tweaked settings).

And again, I could be wrong, and with the recent example of the shield in the H3 playlist, I can't blame someone for thinking 343 can't be trusted when it comes to tweaking the game.

------------

As a quick note about this sad story, on a personal pov, I couldn't care less about someone criticizing my work and telling me I don't deserve a job if they can argue why they think my work is bad. Like E92, I don't take things personally and I'm open to criticizes even if they are garbage or hurting my feeling.

But, from a human ressources standpoint, I can clearly understand their decision. I got the opportunity to hire many people as myself a senior designer, and it once happens I loved the work from someone, but I didn't feel it would be a great fit in the team since he was over-criticizing work from my colleagues and sometime attacking people personally.

I thought this was just because he was new and I should gave him a chance since his work was really shinning and I trusted him. 2 months later, we had terrible clashs everyday at the office, and the mood was really really bad. We asked him to leave since he was on a trial period with us, not because of its work but his attitude.

We separated each other in good terms (from my perspective) as I still consider this guy a cool dude with its bad sides, but it really hurted the the team as a whole for a long long time.

So, if they had a doubt about his attitude affecting how people would work, or just feel at work, I could totally understand they changed their mind.

Now, I also think this was just a post on a forum, which can be explained for many reasons like, I don't know, having a really bad day, or just being frustrated over Halo 5 or a HCS stream, I don't know, and they at least should let him the opportunity to explain himself and see if he was redeemable (maybe they did, I don't know).

I didn't really like his work to be honest, it was aesthetic and eye-candy, but I never had fun playing on his maps. Still, he clearly had some valuable assets as a level designer, and it's still bad to lose someone with passion for Halo for those strong words.
 
T

The Henery

Member
FyreWulff said:
isn't this the guy that made the completely baseless video about some conspiracy of the cartographers with loads of creepy personal attacks? Even though the CCs have literally never controlled matchmaking?

edit: LOL HE DELETED THE VIDEO


if this is real... I'm not gonna say any more on this right now.
Click to expand...

Wulff confirmed as the guy who screencapped the posts lol
 
C

curiouscharles

Member
E92 M3 said:
It's embarrassing - talent is more important than some mean words. If 343 can't take criticism than things will never improve.
Click to expand...

with the kind of baseless, emotional, immature, and indefensible "criticism" people like you lambaste them with - i simply can't agree with you [and don't on anything you say anyway].
 
J

JDB

Banned
He's been posting toxic garbage for years. He's a great Forger, but also generally acts like an asshole. 🤷
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
E92 M3 said:
It's embarrassing - talent is more important than some mean words. If 343 can't take criticism than things will never improve.
Click to expand...

I love you.


And Wulff better not be the one screencapping stuff. Lol


Also curiouscharles you will get to the point where we are. But if you after all the stuff that was laid out here still don't think 343 doesn't handle it like they should (I mean the franchise and games in general) then I don't know.... but seems like you have a great chance of getting hired with this attitude :)


I miss juices and kylej they called this behaviour by 343 out years ago, hiring nice people from community sites eventhough their talents are not the best in the field.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
IHaveIce said:
I love you.


And Wulff better not be the one screencapping stuff. Lol


Also curiouscharles you will get to the point where we are. But if you after all the stuff that was laid out here still don't think 343 doesn't handle it like they should (I mean the franchise and games in general) then I don't know.... but seems like you have a great chance of getting hired with this attitude :)


I miss juices and kylej they called this behaviour by 343 out years ago, hiring nice people from community sites eventhough their talents are not the best in the field.
Click to expand...
Talent is good, now talent and not being a creeper to CC people would have been better.

I don't exactly recalljuices or kylej ever doing that and it's not like they are the only ones who ever had any criticism
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
wwm0nkey said:
Talent is good, now talent and not being a creeper to CC people would have been better.

I don't exactly recalljuices or kylej ever doing that and it's not like they are the only ones who ever had any criticism
Click to expand...

juices and kylej often made remarks when someone was defending Halo 4 and stuff "this is a good attitude to get hired" Others probably did aswell.

By the way Multi is completely fine with it and realizes he fucked up. But the reddit guy is still scum
 
F

Feel the Swift

Member
FyreWulff said:
isn't this the guy that made the completely baseless video about some conspiracy of the cartographers with loads of creepy personal attacks? Even though the CCs have literally never controlled matchmaking?

edit: LOL HE DELETED THE VIDEO


if this is real... I'm not gonna say any more on this right now.
Click to expand...
Source? Cause all I'm hearing is accusations

Not defending I am curious.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
IHaveIce said:
juices and kylej often made remarks when someone was defending Halo 4 and stuff "this is a good attitude to get hired" Others probably did aswell.

By the way Multi is completely fine with it and realizes he fucked up. But the reddit guy is still scum
Click to expand...
Halo 4 was a very interesting time on HaloGaf for sure. But like I said, nothing wrong with what they said that would have disqualified them from a potential job.

Also I do hope multi learns a lot from this, I do believe attitudes can change and he does have a lot of talent
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
wwm0nkey said:
Halo 4 was a very interesting time on HaloGaf for sure. But like I said, nothing wrong with what they said that would have disqualified them from a potential job.

Also I do hope multi learns a lot from this, I do believe attitudes can change and he does have a lot of talent
Click to expand...

No no they didn't say anything wrong.

Yeah I do hope so, but it will be hard to start again with this background
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
MultiLockOn" said:
Completely and utterly untrue.


1: I haven't even mentioned the word "community cartographer" in almost 2 years. In fact I removed the CC video over a year ago when it was no longer relevant. The CC system was disbanded, we no longer have those people controlling what maps get into matchmaking. It worked. There was no reason for it to remain up. So I removed it as a courtesy to everyone mentioned in the video.

2: Harassed the CC's? The only people I've talked to since I've received the offer are my usual forge pals and family. There aren't even CC's to harass. I'd seriously give you the password to my beyond, Forgehub, reddit, discord, and xbox live account if you want to verify this because I have nothing to hide.

3: I didn't "dig up dirt" on anyone. I've never said this publicly before because I was defending other people, but the entire CC debacle and all the evidence WITHIN the video was given to me BY OTHER CARTOGRAPHERS who didn't want to work with Psychoduck/AgentPaperCraft anymore. Warholic actually provided most of the screenshots and information; this was never disclosed because at the time he had a lot to lose and I didn't. So I took the heat for the cartographer situation.

4: Pretty sure FyreWulf is actually one of the old CC's




This is all completely utterly irrelevant, and false, to the current situation though.
Click to expand...

It also looks like the restructuring of the program was a direct result of conflicts of interest Multi pointed out...

Popcorn.gif
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
IHaveIce said:
juices and kylej often made remarks when someone was defending Halo 4 and stuff "this is a good attitude to get hired" Others probably did aswell.

By the way Multi is completely fine with it and realizes he fucked up. But the reddit guy is still scum
Click to expand...

The whole "slurper" bullshit peddled by Kyle and Juices has mostly died, and thank god for that. It's an ad hominem attack that can't be proven and has no use being deployed in a discussion. I can turn around and say Juices acted like an obnoxious prick since he knew he'd never get hired for a job that he wanted because he was such an asshole, and my accusation would have just as much merit as "you're defending the game because you want a job."

343 has and continues to not freeze out people who have been highly critical of them in the past (LateNightGaming visited the studio, for instance), but there's a difference between "I think Halo has these criticisms" and "everyone at the studio should lose his job." I guess losing his job will make that abundantly clear to him in the future. No one wants to work with someone who would, if he'd had his way, been happy to deprive them of their livelihood as well.

The staffing agency that gave this guy the offer in the first place really should have vetted this stuff before it even got to this stage. Is social media checking really not thorough enough to find this stuff?

I just don't understand the sentiments here and elsewhere that Microsoft/343 should act like "the better man" and hire someone who's voiced those sentiments. Do people not have to work with others in a professional work environment? That's the only way I can understand why they think you should just brush off criticism because "the guy's talented".

Here's the reality. There's thousands of people out there who can do the exact same job as you, and probably better. Your personality is and always has been an important factor in getting hired, right alongside your skills and connections.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
the people going "attitudes can be changed" are also usually the ones saying PDP saying the n-word was totally valid because it was "in the heat of the moment"
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Sub-Zero at a Starbucks said:
the people going "attitudes can be changed" are also usually the ones saying PDP saying the n-word was totally valid because it was "in the heat of the moment"
Click to expand...

Nah PDP has had plenty of time, this guy isn't as big as PDP so this could be a good wake up call. I mean if he does it again I wont be surprised, but I would rather be pleasantly surprised to see him not do it again.
 
P

Prinz Eugn

Member
E92 M3 said:
It's embarrassing - talent is more important than some mean words. If 343 can't take criticism than things will never improve.
Click to expand...

All the talent in the world won't save you in a company if your coworkers don't want to work with you, which is the actual risk in hiring someone who has previously bad-mouthed your employees. Add in an apparent penchant for drama related to the very thing you are hiring them for, and the choice is obvious.
 
A

AlStrong

Member
GreyWind said:
It's actually the team work that matters the most, especially for these type of projects.
Click to expand...

Basically.

Talent might get someone's foot in the door, but attitudes will either shut it or open it further.

---

Remember, there is no I in Team America 343i.
It's about trust. It's the eye of the Halo, and they must pass through it.

ahem. :p
 
N

NOKYARD

Member
Trup1aya said:
It also looks like the restructuring of the program was a direct result of conflicts of interest Multi pointed out...

Popcorn.gif
Click to expand...
Common Misconception.

WARHOLIC and I were lobbying for a CC restructure at 343i before the game shipped. They were dragging their feet because no one there had come up with a better solution. Multi's post and the community backlash simply forced their hand.

The system we are using now is FAR superior to the old CC system.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Sub-Zero at a Starbucks said:
the people going "attitudes can be changed" are also usually the ones saying PDP saying the n-word was totally valid because it was "in the heat of the moment"
Click to expand...

I said attitudes change- And definitely am not a guy who validates pdp. Nonsensical generalization.

I work for a fortune 500 company, have personavlly hired dozens of people. Have dealt with employee discipline. Have given people second chances. Have had to let people go for first offenses. Every case is different. Every case is an opportunity in one way or another. Every person is different. He could have been PDP, or he could have changed his ways (which he had been doing since Reddit tried to get him fired from treyarch) and helped turn the franchise around. We'll never know.

NOKYARD said:
Common Misconception.
WARHOLIC and I were lobbying for a CC restructure at 343i before the game shipped. They were dragging their feet because no one there had come up with a better solution. Multi's post and the community backlash simply forced their hand.

The system we are using now is FAR superior to the old CC system.
Click to expand...

So the backlash lit a fire. That's what i should have said.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
NOKYARD said:
Common Misconception.

WARHOLIC and I were lobbying for a CC restructure at 343i before the game shipped. They were dragging their feet because no one there had come up with a better solution. Multi's post and the community backlash simply forced their hand.

The system we are using now is FAR superior to the old CC system.
Click to expand...

The CC program worked well for Halo 3 and Reach due to a number of reasons in and around the games themselves and the community and the tools, etc.

Right now there are much better ways of handling that process and I'm glad they phased it out.

Still think CC's like yourself got a lot of flack for the silliest of things from the community and having CC's at all made them perfect scapegoats for all kinds of grievances with all kinds of entities, justified or not.
 
N

NOKYARD

Member
Slightly Live said:
The CC program worked well for Halo 3 and Reach due to a number of reasons in and around the games themselves and the community and the tools, etc.

Right now there are much better ways of handling that process and I'm glad they phased it out.

Still think CC's like yourself got a lot of flack for the silliest of things from the community and having CC's at all made them perfect scapegoats for all kinds of grievances with all kinds of entities, justified or not.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there was a lot of animosity mostly due to the misconception that we were the gatekeepers to matchmaking. I remember receiving a heated messages stating that the maps we selected for the Ricochet playlist (they were actually contest winners) were garbage he could name 10 maps which were way better. When pressed he offered up a single asymmetrical map (built by his friend) with more bridges than respawn points, and demanded it be put in matchmaking. On the other hand, some of the criticism of map choices was spot on.

I never received much flack because i was always dealt with the community honestly, openly (when not under NDA) and was quick to right the ship when someone went off spewing their misinterpretations as fact. Other CCs, whether they deserved or not, were not so lucky.
 
gamerguy2002

gamerguy2002

Member
Just makes me wonder if someone here had serious potential but constantly complained on HaloGAF about the Halo titles and applied at 343i, would their time at HaloGAF be used against them.

Maybe this was a worst case scenario but it goes to show that are words are constantly logged into an internet history and archive and may come back to bite us in the worst possible way.

I feel bad for MultiLockOn, regardless of what he said he sort of homeless and doesn't have a job. I hope he does get back on his feet soon.
 
D

Defect

Member
Wow, they fixed the shield issue! I gotta say, this playlist is fantastic. I'm having so much fun and it plays well for the most part.

The br needs a little change but I can deal with it. I think this playlist proves that Halo still doesn't need sprint or other abilities. My brain keeps getting tricked into thinking I'm actually playing Halo 3 so I try pressing LB to swap nades lol

Make this playlist permanent, add more maps and change the br and we are golden :)
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Defect said:
Wow, they fixed the shield issue! I gotta say, this playlist is fantastic. I'm having so much fun and it plays well for the most part.

The br needs a little change but I can deal with it. I think this playlist proves that Halo still doesn't need sprint or other abilities. My brain keeps getting tricked into thinking I'm actually playing Halo 3 so I try pressing LB to swap nades lol

Make this playlist permanent, add more maps and change the br and we are golden :)
Click to expand...

Yeah this changed the game for me. The BR is pretty annoying, especially on smaller maps, but I'll live.

But being able to run and gun and play on maps with open sightlines is simply amazing. Thanks to the lack of SAs, actually being able to anticipate my opponents next move and having to Act Knowing that he can anticipate mine makes tactics feel as important as mechanical skill. Its beginning to feel like the halo i fell in love with.

I hope people keep playing the playlist. I got a game in a at 5:30am est and didn't have to wait, so hopefully that's a good sign.
 
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