-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo Lore Thread
- Thread starter Korten
- Start date
Ah, yup... Phone autocorrect :3
Thanks though. Seems like the ONI people are kinda on a power trip.
No problems, it got a chuckle out of me.
Anyway, yeah it's easy to think that and it's basically why many assume that ONI will eventually become an enemy... A bit more supported since the new guy in Halo 5 has an ONI lnsignia on their upper right chest piece. Though depending on the E3 reveal it could mean anything currently, ally or foe.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
I really hope with the possible antagonist being a human sent to assassinate a seemingly rogue Master Chief, we focus less on the Forerunners and more on just finding a way to get Cortana back.
Revealing information about the Forerunners, having Humanity be a super advanced race prior to the first Halo firing...It's not a retcon that does the series any favors at all.
The Forerunner being a backdrop, a memory, a reason for all the expansive mega-structures and ancient semi-decrepit machines was how they were best. Fighting a living Forerunner and winning seems so silly, even within the new '343i' canon. Ancient super-humans had a hard time fighting them, and the yet primitive Master Chief did it against the supreme commander of all their forces?
It was much better when they were a mysterious precursor that simply sacrificed themselves to destroy the flood. It makes the story feel that much better when you can finally defeat the flood and do what they could not.
Forerunners were whatever I could imagine them being. The race that built the Halos, that created the Engineers, that left behind so much for the Covenant to find and misuse.
Now they're just weird looking humans, with human emotions and human flaws, and super advanced technology that still can't beat a good BR 4 shot.
Revealing information about the Forerunners, having Humanity be a super advanced race prior to the first Halo firing...It's not a retcon that does the series any favors at all.
The Forerunner being a backdrop, a memory, a reason for all the expansive mega-structures and ancient semi-decrepit machines was how they were best. Fighting a living Forerunner and winning seems so silly, even within the new '343i' canon. Ancient super-humans had a hard time fighting them, and the yet primitive Master Chief did it against the supreme commander of all their forces?
It was much better when they were a mysterious precursor that simply sacrificed themselves to destroy the flood. It makes the story feel that much better when you can finally defeat the flood and do what they could not.
Forerunners were whatever I could imagine them being. The race that built the Halos, that created the Engineers, that left behind so much for the Covenant to find and misuse.
Now they're just weird looking humans, with human emotions and human flaws, and super advanced technology that still can't beat a good BR 4 shot.
I doubt Chief is going rouge, or at the very least Stinkles (Frank O' Conner) said in the Halo 5 thread that Chief would never go rouge... True it may just be a distraction, but still...
As for the retcon... Many people chalk it up to 343i... But in Halo: Contact Harvest they made it seem like Humans = Forerunners, however then you look at the terminals in Halo 3 and they clearly indicate that Humans =/= Forerunners.
Now this isn't a debate i'm going to get into (just because I've had it on this forum before and it's a tiresome debate), however I will say it's highly unlikely we won't see more Forerunners from here on out.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Master Chief would absolutely disobey orders and seek out Cortana, he has disobeyed orders to protect her before. Because we are the Master Chief, and we care about Cortana because we're supposed to.
Master Chief is another thing I have a problem with, they're characterizing him too much in the game, I liked it better when it was out there if you wanted it, but Master Chief hit that perfect balance of one liners and silent protagonist that we felt like Cortana was talking to us, and not the Chief.
I don't know, it just feels like Halo 4 was the "Phantom Menace" to Halo. I'm worried we're about to get a "Clone Wars" soon.
Master Chief is another thing I have a problem with, they're characterizing him too much in the game, I liked it better when it was out there if you wanted it, but Master Chief hit that perfect balance of one liners and silent protagonist that we felt like Cortana was talking to us, and not the Chief.
I don't know, it just feels like Halo 4 was the "Phantom Menace" to Halo. I'm worried we're about to get a "Clone Wars" soon.
Great post, this is exactly how I feel. So far almost everything 343 has added makes me less interested in finding out more (I did quite like Halo Evolutions and the CEA terminals though!)
To be honest I really don't have a problem with the direction 343i are taking the games, people have to remember that the complexity's of halos lore has to be simplified to fit into the narrative arc of the games for people which haven't read the external lore and that they have to balance gameplay with lore. Their needed to be an antagonist for us to fight at the beginning on H4 before the reveal of the Didact hence the Thursday War. I think some sacrifices have to be made in respects to lore to make the games an enjoyable experience.
HalcyonXcution
Neo Member
I always wondered if Reaches legendary ending has some meaning that will be revealed later on because it takes place 32 years after the start of halo 4. I know it imply's that it will be when humans revisit the planet. But knowing bungie with halo I am sure something happens.
Oh has anyone ever figured out what was hidden on the package level when you did the 4 banshee easter egg, I never found anything but there is a lot of area to search. There has to be something, the banshees have meaning due to the invisible walls being gone. But I have no Idea where to go when you leave the map, you can go in any direction and feel like there is something hidden.
Oh has anyone ever figured out what was hidden on the package level when you did the 4 banshee easter egg, I never found anything but there is a lot of area to search. There has to be something, the banshees have meaning due to the invisible walls being gone. But I have no Idea where to go when you leave the map, you can go in any direction and feel like there is something hidden.
I feel like there was a terminal that hinted he'd been watching the chief somehow, just can't remember where, if it does exist. Also, we don't quite know what happened to Offensive Bias, so that AI could also be around. lots of possibilities, but my money is on one of the AI's.
I hate people using the term retcon trivially. Retcon is the alteration of established facts--The Fall of Reach told us Reach was attacked and fell on August 30. Halo: Reach changed that to July. That is a retcon.
Aside from visual changes, however, I can't think of *anything* that 343 has done that is a straight retcon along the lines of what Bungie did. As pointed out, Bungie did have a lot of statements that could be taken at face value as meaning humans = Forerunner. But they also had a lot of evidence they *weren't*, in the *same games*. So in that context, rampant Monitors' testimony is a bit weak and far from conclusive. The most elaborate rewriting was the story in the Terminals, but even there Bungie themselves didn't present it as conclusive. (And I guess the same could be said for at least the first two Forerunner Trilogy books, as they are accounts from first-person sources.)
What 343 has done is shade the previous sketchy backstory in, and I'd argue that's necessary for a large franchise. Sure, you're going to have people upset about answering questions they'd provided their own answers for but my response is frankly, "tough". It's a media franchise that tells stories. That's going to happen. No one's forcing you to like or consume what you don't want, but lots of people *do* want to know those answersotherwise there wouldn't be fans talking about it in the first place.
Is 343 taking the story in a different direction that Bungie would have had they still made more Halo games? I'm sure they areI can't see them ever doing anything in the games like making ONI borderline antagonistic. But different isn't worse.
Yeah it was a terminal in Halo 3, you can go here...
http://www.halopedia.org/Terminal/Halo_3
To read all of them.
Lord of Admirals
Neo Member
Hmm... The amount of sources leading to Halopedian concerns me...
Regardless, people are rather adamant on Cortana coming back. I would go as far as to outright deny it.
Regardless, people are rather adamant on Cortana coming back. I would go as far as to outright deny it.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Cortana will be back talking in your head by the 2nd or 3rd level. They're not going to get rid of their sexy blue woman.
There was tons of hinting at the Librarian making a complete copy or her, or the one that was 'destroyed' was a copy.
They're just...not gonna get rid of their main character like that. I mean, he's holding her chip in his hand in the trailer, that's the point of the next game.
Halopedia is the best source of Halo information. Much better than Halonation.
Halopedian>Halo Nation
From what we understand, the speech is from the past, now after the events of Halo 4.
More so with this line: "I stand before you. Accused of the sin of ensuring Forerunner ascendancy. Of attempting to save us from this fate where we are forced to... recede..."
It's clear this is from before he was exiled and before he was put in his Cryptum.
That would make sense but... Why would he say "The Forerunner have return"?
He doesn't say that in his ending monologue.
O wow, you are right. Completely confused myself here hahaha
LordOfChaos
Member
I don't agree that it's from the past. When in the past had humanity seized forerunner triumphs for their own? They are doing that now with forerunner engines and weapons and armor. Ancient humans advanced there on their own. When in the past had forerunners spent eons in the darkness? They are dominant before the flood and the rings firing. When in the past had the reclamation begun? Humans were primitive and decimated when the Didact was locked away.
This guy on the Forward Unto Dawn forums had the same thought about timeframe, and I think he puts forward the evidence for it being the past pretty well:
http://assembly.forwarduntodawn.com/index.php?topic=470.msg10432#new
The Real Napsta
Member
FUD has forums?
Yep. It's mostly just a small group of people there but we have good discussions on occasion
That was my plan as well, but frankly I abhor physical stuff that takes up room and my Halo collection of novels have gotten large enough that anything I can do to cut down on more stuff taking up space is a bonus.
I would love to buy something like that but I will admit i'm not patient enough to wait for that. I want to read the issues as they come out to be up to date and to avoid spoilers.
Not_A-Cop_Maybe
Member
I would love to buy something like that but I will admit i'm not patient enough to wait for that. I want to read the issues as they come out to be up to date and to avoid spoilers.
There are.......other ways. _("/)_/
Like reading it at your comic book store. What did you think i meant
There are.......other ways. _("/)_/
Like reading it at your comic book store. What did you think i meant
Nope, that's exactly what I thought you mean't, clearly there is no other method of which you speak of...
Anyway, strangely enough the issue is not out despite being midnight. Weird as this was not the case last time.
Yeah it sucks however...
Flood on the ship. Wonder if that means we will see Flood in the later issues. And I do wonder also what planet they landed on...
Since despite flood presence, there doesn't appear to be any biomasses of infection.
Wonder if that means we will see Flood in the later issues. And I do wonder also what planet they landed on... Since despite flood presence, there doesn't appear to be any biomasses of infection.
Edit: Also I updated the main page, so it has the latest issue of escalation.
LordOfChaos
Member
This guy makes several of the points I did earlier, plus some, about why the Halo 4 legendary ending speech is probably in the present.
http://haruspis.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/the-reclaimer-saga-and-ur-didact-future/
http://haruspis.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/the-reclaimer-saga-and-ur-didact-future/
Andodalf
Banned
Nah. Past. The phraseology makes the future a hard sell. And isn't part of it from one of the books? Or is my mind deceiving me?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Wonder if a future Halo game will ever feature a Key Mind? I know it is stretching things since such a threat is god-like to say the least but I would so love to see one.
Well with the newest Escalation comic:
Flood was spotted on the Spirit of Fire as the ship was gravitating towards a planet... If unchecked this
could be VERY VERY bad and may eventually lead to another Key Mind forming if unchecked.
could be VERY VERY bad and may eventually lead to another Key Mind forming if unchecked.
MaxRealflugel
Neo Member
Forerunner bird-like construct:
With regards to the giant bird-like construction in the Xbox One Halo trailer, it could be a Forerunner Seeker. They were larger and more advanced versions of the Forerunner War Sphynx. The Sphynx is described as being ten metres in height, and the trailer depicts a much larger construct.
However, I believe it to be something different altogether. Though possibly placed within the Forerunner Sphynx/Seeker family, except a much larger version.
ONI Spartan
The Spartan depicted on the Halo 5 Guardians artwork is not a Spartan III. He's wearing GEN 2 armour, albeit with some modifications and upgrades. His armour is designed with stealth and mobility in mind. If you take a look at the various armours in the Halo 4 Visual Guide there are elements that support this, such as the small shoulder pauldrons, narrow armour sections and the slimmer design, and the stealth shrouding on the modular sections.
To me, this guy is wearing armour designed for two things: infiltration & combat. So, in theory, he would be able to infiltrate a variety of heavily guarded facilities and take out whoever is inside. I doubt he's being sent to take out the Chief. Perhaps to track him but not to kill him. I would suggest that he may in fact be out to finally dispose of Jul, or Halsey, or both. He may even be out to kill the Arbiter. Looking at what happens in the Kilo-5 trilogy it's entirely possible, though unlikely, that ONI have tasked him to completely destabalize the political arena on Sanghelios, throwing the planet into a mad dash for power, in order to fill the vacuum left by the Arbiter/Thel.
This could give humanity/ONI the perfect excuse for stepping in a sending them back to the stone age, much in the same way the the Forerunners did to humanity after the Forerunner/Human war.
Perhaps the Chief heads off to see the Arbiter, asking for support in finding either Cirtana or Mendicant Bias, and gets caught up in the whole thing.
As for Cortana, I think bringing her back in Halo 5 would be a mistake. Sure, hint at the possibility of her still being around, in some form or other. After all, Halsey experimented with the possibility of AIs utilising Slipspace, stealing a S-F Slipscape drive from Reach.
Key mind: It's more than likely that when the Flood turn up, and they definately will at some point, that we'll see a variety of Flood Minds in action; possible objectives in future games perhaps.I have a feeling that Cortana's vision/thought/dream in Origins could possibly be prophetic in principle, meaning that we may see humans and the Covenant fighting side by side against the Flood.
ANyway, that's my two cents/pence.
With regards to the giant bird-like construction in the Xbox One Halo trailer, it could be a Forerunner Seeker. They were larger and more advanced versions of the Forerunner War Sphynx. The Sphynx is described as being ten metres in height, and the trailer depicts a much larger construct.
However, I believe it to be something different altogether. Though possibly placed within the Forerunner Sphynx/Seeker family, except a much larger version.
ONI Spartan
The Spartan depicted on the Halo 5 Guardians artwork is not a Spartan III. He's wearing GEN 2 armour, albeit with some modifications and upgrades. His armour is designed with stealth and mobility in mind. If you take a look at the various armours in the Halo 4 Visual Guide there are elements that support this, such as the small shoulder pauldrons, narrow armour sections and the slimmer design, and the stealth shrouding on the modular sections.
To me, this guy is wearing armour designed for two things: infiltration & combat. So, in theory, he would be able to infiltrate a variety of heavily guarded facilities and take out whoever is inside. I doubt he's being sent to take out the Chief. Perhaps to track him but not to kill him. I would suggest that he may in fact be out to finally dispose of Jul, or Halsey, or both. He may even be out to kill the Arbiter. Looking at what happens in the Kilo-5 trilogy it's entirely possible, though unlikely, that ONI have tasked him to completely destabalize the political arena on Sanghelios, throwing the planet into a mad dash for power, in order to fill the vacuum left by the Arbiter/Thel.
This could give humanity/ONI the perfect excuse for stepping in a sending them back to the stone age, much in the same way the the Forerunners did to humanity after the Forerunner/Human war.
Perhaps the Chief heads off to see the Arbiter, asking for support in finding either Cirtana or Mendicant Bias, and gets caught up in the whole thing.
As for Cortana, I think bringing her back in Halo 5 would be a mistake. Sure, hint at the possibility of her still being around, in some form or other. After all, Halsey experimented with the possibility of AIs utilising Slipspace, stealing a S-F Slipscape drive from Reach.
Key mind: It's more than likely that when the Flood turn up, and they definately will at some point, that we'll see a variety of Flood Minds in action; possible objectives in future games perhaps.I have a feeling that Cortana's vision/thought/dream in Origins could possibly be prophetic in principle, meaning that we may see humans and the Covenant fighting side by side against the Flood.
ANyway, that's my two cents/pence.
The stuff in Origins was so bonkers off the wall confusing it would be a pretty crazy mindwarp if it turned out to be the future we were seeing 5+ years early.
And I agree about the nature of the Forerunner construct in the trailer.
Haven't seen you on GAF before--you're the chap who runs The Secrets Within, correct?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I think the Flood needs a planet full of life before it can become a Key Mind. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
So everyone from Halo Wars is Flood Food now?
We have no idea, the pods in the ship were empty, so it's possible they got out in time and managed to escape.
The planet doesn't exactly look like it's full of a shit ton of life, however even if there is just a little bit, then there is a chance of the
Flood getting off of the planet and going to others.
Interesting thing though, the planet looks like a desert, and the first image of Halo 5 was of a desert planet. Now granted concept art made
it seem like the planet in the picture of Halo 5 could be Sangheilios, or at least a part of it. Though it could just be concept art.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Man, I got chills seeing the final page of the new Escalation comic. Really curious how the next couple of issues are going to pan out.
Also, this thread has been great! Lurking for quite some time, I love me some Halo lore. Pretty much read/consumed everything except a few of the comic series.
Also, this thread has been great! Lurking for quite some time, I love me some Halo lore. Pretty much read/consumed everything except a few of the comic series.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Ugh, I hope that artwork isn't an example of the rest of the comic.
I recall what happened at the end of Halo Wars so I'm rather interested how they all managed to get out. I'm at least sure they wouldn't kill off Dr. Anders. If they did escape, I wonder where the crew eventually wound up?
The art for the Halo comics have sadly been a mixed bag, the writing has been fine, worth it enough to still read.
Well there is multiple possibilites:
1) Did they escape? Or did they get rescued?
2) If they did escape, was it to the planet we see in the panel or to another in the system?
3) Did the entire ship get infected and everyone died?
We also then have one interesting question...
Chief Medical Officer O'Neil said that to make sure no flood got on, that they would burn the bodies... However clearly
this didn't work...
Or did it? 27 years is a long time... If the flood spore had gotten onto the ship, why did it wait for that long to infect? For that matter why
wouldn't the entire ship be completely infected? Did the spore get on DURING the 27 year period? Was that
the reason Salina said: "Captain. Wake up. Something has happened."
Did a Flood form get on much later?
In any case it seems we got more questions than answers with this latest arc...
Razgriz-Specter
Member
If there was anything at all great about Halo 4 it was them characterizing Chief more.
Dull boring Chief is completely played out. It was fine for a while but without colorful characters like Johnson and now Cortana around there is nothing to invest in.
Its one of the reasons ODST is the best of the series to me, yeah they aren't the greatest characters but they are something at least.
I liked all of the Reach Spartans as well.
ODST and Reach had such strong characters that going back to Chief in 4 was a bit of a drag but thankfully they added more character to him at that point going forward.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Yup,