That doesn't sound so bad then.I think they are. They aren't sequels to Ghosts of Onyx, they merely feature some of the same characters, so abandon that precondition.
People complain about the Halsey bashing, but while it's gratuitous in areas I don't find it that bad and I enjoy Traviss' writing style overall.
The setting sounds great then to me. I can deal with some of the Halsey stuff I would guess. I liked how she was in a moral gray-area, but found myself a little confused as to her status when I was reading some of the other novels.They're a mix bag, you either like them or hate them. I personally like them but I do understand that their quality is not up to the same as previous books. Although not to say they're badly written, when Travis expands on things like Kig-Yar culture and Venezia, it's great...
It's just when it starts to talk about Halsey you may want to bang your head against the wall and punch every character. But overall it's still worth to read since it does expand on post-war Halo.
Ahhh. I don't like the sound of those things for her because I did like the Nylund portrayal, but I can deal with this setting of her at any rate. I suppose the hyperbole I heard probably came from those who have a particular feel for her character.That probably depends on your feelings on the character of Dr. Halsey.
If you like her and the way she was portrayed by Nylund, you probably should avoid them.
If you think she's akin to Space Josef Mengele and don't mind the way 343 handled her subplot in Spartan Ops and wouldn't mind seeing her portrayed as an incompetent fool, these books might not seem so bad.
Just be ready for a needless and an unnecessary amount of Halsey bashing. Basically the entire universe hates her now, even Mendez is against her. If you can overcome that, you'll have a nice read.The setting sounds great then to me. I can deal with some of the Halsey stuff I would guess. I liked how she was in a moral gray-area, but found myself a little confused as to her status when I was reading some of the other novels.
Ahhh. I don't like the sound of those things for her because I did like the Nylund portrayal, but I can deal with this setting of her at any rate. I suppose the hyperbole I heard probably came from those who have a particular feel for her character.
The important thing is that all you guys mention the time period and it's one that is of a lot of interest to me.
-- Citation needed. (Seriously, I would like to see where this was said, for reference.)
One of the most striking retcons to me is the basic concept of whole role of humanity. Originally (back in Halo 1) the reason why humans weren't conquered and incorporated into the Covenant collective was because their presence defied Covenant religion. When the Covenant discovered humans, they knew they were forerunners, but their presence implied the "great journey" failed. They also weren't the all powerful gods they worshiped, so the Prophets wanted to "sweep them under the carpet," as it were.
The plot lines in our games imply this everywhere - the chief being called reclaimer, only humans being able to retrieve and insert the index, Spark telling the chief, "you are forerunner." etc.
I just finished reading Cryptum this morning. In it I discovered that the forerunner are now an entirely different caste-based species with Humans as a beaten, but allied race. At this point, I just follow Cody's lead, shrug my shoulders and say, "eh. it was a good read anyway. I'll buy book 2."
Wow never knew Bungie themselves cobfirmed the forerunner books retconned their original set up.http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive36.pl?read=1070818
Said by Evil Otto, Bungie employee.
Contact Harvest reaffirms this.
-- That's David Candland, not one of the franchise/canon folks. And the terminals in Halo 3 already pointed to the Humans =! Forerunners. Unless "them" refers to something else that was never explained.Wow never knew Bungie themselves cobfirmed the forerunner books retconned their original set up.
Halo 3 Terminal said:L: My work is done. The portal is inactive, and Ive begun the burial measures. Soon therell be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.
You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing - a snowcapped sentinel. Thats where I will spend what time is left to me.
Did I tell you? I built a garden. The earth is so rich. A seed falls and a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. Theres so much...potential. We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless youve been here, you cant know.
Its [Eden].
To be fair, there don't seem to be any Prophets in Halo 4, and the Elites were always rather naive.The Prophets endeavors to exterminate humanity seem kinda pointless now. First three games lose all their meaning. Humanity's existence is no longer an affront to their religion, so why the holocaust? Post retcon, at least one of their true gods was still out there waiting to be found and they knew nothing of the Precursors intentions for humanity's role as galactic stewards. If the Prophets/Covenant found that to be a threat to their religion, killing one Forerunner would have been a hell of a lot easier than the whole of humanity. But in Halo 4 we see remaining Covenant are more than willing to bow down to Didact. -_-
The only course for me is to not pay serious attention to anything written post Bungie.
-- That's David Candland, not one of the franchise/canon folks. And the terminals in Halo 3 already pointed to the Humans =! Forerunners. Unless "them" refers to something else that was never explained.
343GS also thought that Master Chief had activated the Halo array the first time. Hardly the most reliable of narrators.In the same game where 343 Guitly Spark says to Master Chief, "You are Forerunner."
"Them" could be anyone.
The Covenant in Halo 4 is a splinter sec created by Jul U'Mdama. This group of "covenant" still believes in the Forerunners, and worships them as gods.The Prophets endeavors to exterminate humanity seem kinda pointless now. First three games lose all their meaning. Humanity's existence is no longer an affront to their religion, so why the holocaust? Post retcon, at least one of their true gods was still out there waiting to be found and they knew nothing of the Precursors intentions for humanity's role as galactic stewards. If the Prophets/Covenant found that to be a threat to their religion, killing one Forerunner would have been a hell of a lot easier than the whole of humanity. But in Halo 4 we see remaining Covenant are more than willing to bow down to Didact. -_-
The only course for me is to not pay serious attention to anything written post Bungie.
He uses the term as a title that can be passed on to "the inheritor of all they left behind". That line really isn't written like it's supposed to be a dramatic revelation that's meant to change everything you thought about human history in the Halo universe.In the same game where 343 Guitly Spark says to Master Chief, "You are Forerunner."
"Them" could be anyone.
He certainly states this strangely in Halo 1.Maybe, but I think he meant the Forerunner in general, not Chief specifically. He outwardly assumed Chief was aware of what the Halo array was going to do before Cortana prevented him from activating it. I thought Spark was working off of the assumption that any surviving Forerunner who made it to that point would know the deal.
(interestingly, this line is specifically called out in the Forerunner Saga, with 343GS confusing Master Chief with the Iso-Didact.) In any case, it's rather moot.343 GS said:Last time you asked me if it were my choice would I do it. Having had
considerable to time to ponder your query my answer has not changed. There is
no choice. We must activate the ring.
The Halsey hate goes off the rails in Mortal Dictata, and the Insurrectionists are hilariously incompetent, but its pretty good. I really liked the way she wrote the Kig-Yar in this book.Quick question, is Mortal Dictata any good? Theres a deal on at my local bookstore, and \I can pick it up for cheap. I very rarely read video game novels unless they are somewhat readable (Laughs at ME: Deception).
It's the third book in the Kilo-Five trilogy so I doubt that you'll understand much of it without reading Glasslands and Thursday War first.Quick question, is Mortal Dictata any good? Theres a deal on at my local bookstore, and \I can pick it up for cheap. I very rarely read video game novels unless they are somewhat readable (Laughs at ME: Deception).
He uses the term as a title that can be passed on to "the inheritor of all they left behind". That line really isn't written like it's supposed to be a dramatic revelation that's meant to change everything you thought about human history in the Halo universe.
"Them" could only be a life form from Earth, and since she calls "them" special, especially knowing sci-fi and video game writers, this could only be humans. Unless the Librarian was way into ponies.
The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line.
{//} (THE SECRETS IT HOLDS MUST BE PRESERVED)
{//} (PLANS WITHIN PLANS WITHIN PLANS)
The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched.
They may hold answers to our own mysteries.
{//} (WHAT IRONY THAT WE DISCOVERED THIS TREASURE, ONLY AT THE END OF THINGS.)
{//} (BUT WHAT FORTUNE THAT WE STILL HAD TIME TO SAVE THEM)
The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives,
{//} (BUT PERHAPS ONE DAY IT WILL MAY BE USED FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE NOT)
If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world.
If the plan fails,
{//} (AND THE ADVERSARY SUCCEEDS)
it will remain an enigma forever
{//} (WITH NO-ONE LEFT TO RECLAIM IT)
You had to use the ugly Halo 4 characters didn't ya.
No Halo lore thread is complete without this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=509475
Awesome, I've read Grasslands so i'll pick that up and the Thursday War. ThanksIt's the third book in the Kilo-Five trilogy so I doubt that you'll understand much of it without reading Glasslands and Thursday War first.
I wouldn't say that this suggests that humans were considered an offshoot of the same species. Sounds more like it's hinting that Halo follows the Star Trek school of interplanetary biology (different species originating from the same, uh, intelligent designer).If you'll remember the Iris ARG from before Halo 3, there were also some hints that Forerunners and Humans weren't 100% the same, but that they were similar, and that there was something mysterious about the link between them. I think it was implied that Humans were an offshoot of the Forerunners, something like the link between the Pak Protectors and the Humans in Larry Niven's Ringworld series. Humans were considered Forerunner, but the Forerunners just weren't exactly sure how they got to Earth in the first place.
Unfortunately, this got completely retconned afterwards, when Bear established the Forerunners had discovered humanity and their hyper-advanced ancient culture a long time before they encountered the Flood.
You mean this one?There was a huge halo timeline done not long ago, I believe in the lead-up to Halo 4 IIRC. It was either in Gameinformer or on X360A, can't remember which. Anyway all of the info here and more can be found there if you're really interested.
EnjoyAwesome, I've read Grasslands so i'll pick that up and the Thursday War. Thanks
Spark could've also used the term "Forerunner" to indicate an older species. Humans existed before the Halo array fired. Still this leaves multiple holes in the story as to why he never called any of the San 'Shyuum Forerunner, they too were a space faring race before the Halo array fired, and why did he call himself a Human at the end of Silentium but the Chief a Forerunner.
But I agree with you Chettlar, 343i should've kept Forerunners and Humans the same species.
How about you read my later posts in this thread?For fucks sake people, play Halo 3, which clearly establishes that the Forerunners and humans are different species. Bungie did that, don't blame 343i for something they certainly didn't do.
How about you read my later posts in this thread?
Frankly, i didn't think this either, before Halo 3 (as i noted above, i figured Bungie intended some sort time travel plot, like Marathon series ended up having). Which made a mess of things in my mind, as the game clearly establishes humans are not Forerunners in the Terminals, yet Spark claims that humans are.The discussion here is so rich. I didn't realize Bungie was hinting at the fact humans were Forerunners; I assumed they were hunting at some mysterious connection between humans and Forerunner.
Halo felt pretty ad-hoc in places for its lore, like new stuff had just been bolted on rather than planned from the beginning.
Actually, that interpretation matches perfectly. The Forerunners passed the Mantle (somewhat unwillingly) to humans, so, the humans are Forerunners, in a... spiritual sense. Spark's claim works... but badly, it is much easier to interpret it as claiming that humans just are Forerunners, as in, the same species.I was thinking Guilty Spark's line was establishing humans as a forerunner creation deliberately designed to succeed them, though clearly that doesn't match the current canon.
It's more of a connection. The connection been a massive war pre dating the UNSC and also humans inheriting the Mantle.The discussion here is so rich. I didn't realize Bungie was hinting at the fact humans were Forerunners; I assumed they were hunting at some mysterious connection between humans and Forerunner.
I meant this post specifically.Specific post? Nothing i found exactly gives any credence to the idea of the humans and the Forerunners being the same species.
Halo 3 still establishes, in terminals, and the Iris campaign, that the humans and Forerunners are not the same species, not anyway directly at least.
Guilty Spark's claim, when is clearly rampant or something, doesn't really count for much. Not when the terminals, a much bigger and complete source, disagree with this. Halo CE actually hinted at a time travel plot (my interpretation of course) with Spark's "Why would you hesitate to do what you have already done?". Even if it ain't about time travel, it sure doesn't give much credibility to his Halo 3 claim, suggesting the Chief activated the Halos and then suggesting he is also a Forerunner... eh, doesn't work.
(Also, not really evidence but something fun to consider: Halo 2 had a holo panel with 6-fingered hand-print. Oddly enough, 343i' vision of the Forerunners includes 6-fingered hands)
Frankly, i didn't think this either, before Halo 3 (as i noted above, i figured Bungie intended some sort time travel plot, like Marathon series ended up having). Which made a mess of things in my mind, as the game clearly establishes humans are not Forerunners in the Terminals, yet Spark claims that humans are.
It's more of a connection. The connection been a massive war pre dating the UNSC and also humans inheriting the Mantle.
Humans are not Forerunner. Two completely different species.
However (going of memory) Precursors created Forerunners, they however turned against their makers and destroyed them.
Bungie kinda hinted towards Humans = Forerunner, however it was finally shown to be incorrect in Cryptum.
There is one book called the Halo Bible which has never been released to the public. If I'm correct Frank O'Connor now holds this book.Is there really thousands of years of Halo lore sitting somewhere written out at MS?Used to be at Bungie?
Any idea when a hard corver version of Halo Escalation (containing all volumes) will be released?
There is one book called the Halo Bible which has never been released to the public. If I'm correct Frank O'Connor now holds this book.
Bungie discussing the Halo Bible
That's how I took it, the whole 'Humans = Forerunner' hints never sat well with me, far too predctable and too much of a it was us all along!?!??1 storyline.It's more of a connection. The connection been a massive war pre dating the UNSC and also humans inheriting the Mantle.
Humans are not Forerunner. Two completely different species.
However (going of memory) Precursors created Forerunners, they however turned against their makers and destroyed them.
Bungie kinda hinted towards Humans = Forerunner, however it was finally shown to be incorrect in Cryptum.
*Monk chants start when talking about the holy book*There is one book called the Halo Bible which has never been released to the public. If I'm correct Frank O'Connor now holds this book.
Bungie discussing the Halo Bible
I never liked what i perceived as implying time travel. Don't like time travel in scifi. Good thing it didn't turn out to be that.I meant this post specifically.
That's the beauty of it, what Spark says can be interpreted in almost anyway you want it as you just proofed with the time travel theory. The same goes for the Halo 3 terminals (4 and 6) you can read it as an entirely different species, or as a subspecies of the forerunners. Maybe a deliberately created "mutant" species which would take their place once the Halo Array fired. Bungie was never clear about what they were planning with the Forerunner - Human link.
I'd argue that the humans being Forerunners has the same issue. Humans having ancient super civilization but somehow we don't know about it anymore?//343i cannon
Remember how late the Forerunners realized that there where also Forerunners living in Path Kethona (a different galaxy).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming anyone. I'd just prefer it if the Humans and Forerunners were the same species instead of them being separate species. It all feels so far fetched: Humans being capable of fighting against the forerunners, Humans in an alliance with the San 'Shyuum against the Forerunners, Forerunners (seemingly) destroying a race that's billions of years old, Humans (and San 'Shyuum) being a Tier 1 race before the Halo array fired.
*Monk chants start when talking about the holy book*
I wonder if the bible gets updated on a frequent basis to accommodate for the increase of scope in the universe.
Precursors losing to Forerunners doesn't add up as Precursors had the tech to jump galaxies which is insane.
i think it had something to do with them losing the Mantle.Yeah, this is what bothers me. How could the most advanced species in existence lose against their creation?
Mighty fine collection you got there.
Damn nice collection.
Like they said, custom covers I made these for all the Halo games (album)Wait, is that a physical copy of Spartan Assault?
Custom Cover thread is awesome
I like that the Halo 4's collector case is casually put there just to fit the gap.