calm down there cowboy
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Halo |OT 20| It really does feel like Halo
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
calm down there cowboy
Read the books and extended universe before you criticize the game's story. Please, you sound ridiculous. Halo CE had a ton of details and lore that I didn't fully understand, but the core Campaign story still made sense, the rest were details that became mysterious, or worth investigating through the extended universe.Well, I think it was well established in the EU. Meh. Again, I don't see the problem if you have read the EU.
The UNSC Infinity was drawn in by coordinates from the Installation 03 science team. This was in the game. And frankly if we are going to say "only go for the games" then we lose most of Halo's background story. Many of the EU elements were establishing aspects of the lore, similar to for the tFoR was an establishing story for CE. Sure, Halo 4 was too reliant on them, but what was left was still good quality in my opinion.
Again, this is because almost all of them had not read the books/
Out of the general fanbase? Probably, yes. Out of the fanbase that spends most of its time analyzing the lore? Definitely not. I've been on various lore orientated forums and Halo 4 is at least recognized as a much better attempt than Bungie's Halo: Reach. Most of us still hate Spartan Ops/Escalation though
Poodlestrike
Banned
Ooh, I hadn't thought of that. Alright, now I'm annoyed.
I keep seeing this "Halo 4 didn't make any sense without the EU," and I'm always amused by it. The story isn't worth much without the EU, but difficult to understand? No. There's this guy, and you know he's the bad guy because he's super creepy looking and because he tries to crush the Chief with his mind. You fight him. The end. Shallow, but hardly difficult to follow.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
The ability to have free access of the camera, and explore the environment is a Halo staple post Halo 3. While Halo 4 omitted it, we were told they wanted it in but it was cut due to technical constraints. They got a ton of flak for that.
At the very least, I am sure Theater is something they really want to work into Halo 5. While they may use the Xbox Ones record feature as a way to cover the lack of it, I doubt it's their reason for not including it.
It's pretty cool. Whoever came up with the idea of making selecting the achievement take you to the correct lobby with everything all set up for you is a genius.
Mp matches are still recorded so RvB will be fine.
Not at all. I have already conceded the fact that it was too reliant on it. The primary purpose of the EU was the establishing factor of the factions involved. E.g. how and why the Didact was in Requiem, how the Covenant was at Requiem, how the UNSC found Requiem etc. An additional aspect of the EU was the Didact's primary motivation. Again, CE, while yes, it was a self contained story, was also reliant on an EU establishing a background story.
All I am saying is that what was left was not bad at all. And when combined with the EU it was actually quite good compared to Reach.
Obviously, only PR/Marketing would sell you another inferior product as the reason for not including the one you expected.
ArchedThunder
Banned
You can't customize armor, so no, they won't be. Also the Mark V armor isn't in Halo 4 because they didn't put the DLC armor in for some reason.
...hahaha this is a joke right?
UM.
Right?
...guys?
If there isn't theater in Halo 5 well fuck community content I guess. We've got such an "amazing" built in DVR. Why would we possibly want theater?
Not jumping to conclusions though. I'm just saying if. I don't think 343 are dumb enough to get rid of such a legacy feature.
Not jumping to conclusions though. I'm just saying if. I don't think 343 are dumb enough to get rid of such a legacy feature.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
If Halo 3 SP theater isn't in, there must have been some weird coding/technical constraint that they didn't have time/budget to fix. I'm gonna be upset if its gone, but considering how insane this package is, I can deal.
Uniformity. The other campaigns don't have this, therefore Halo 3 should not have it either as it would be confusing.
Salty Sarcasm, of course, though i wouldn't be surprised if that were an actual reason.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I really hope they patch in the ability to save your campaign films and customize your armor because this is really gonna bug me.
They aren't. We will put you down under "bugged".
Sorry, this is a bit rambling and disorganized. My thoughts have never been 100% put in order on these topics.
Actually, Halo 4's characters had a much harder time being "convincing" to me than Reach's. They're a long shot from "relatable."
You have folks like Captain Asshole acting like Captain Asshole before he has any reason to.
You've got the Didact making "epic" statements, except that lines like "where reason does not stop you perhaps force will at least delay you" don't make any sense coming from someone who never bothers to reason with you at all.
etc...
As far as Cortana and the Chief go: I thought their relationship was handled melodramatically and without much real progression. And I've had the opinion since 2004 that the romantic angle on their relationship was never really sold that well, so when Halo 4 decides that it's been set to 11? Yeah, no.
Are they more complex characters than how they're used in Bungie's games? Sure. Is that a good thing? Debatable. Does it ultimately work well? No.
I will acknowledge that I have a few qualms regarding how Reach couples to Halo 1.
I think some of its plot development steps on Halo 1's toes (i.e. Halsey's speech in her lab), and I think the decision to stretch the fall of Reach out to more than a couple of days takes away some of the punctuation off of Halo 1's origin story (for no apparent reason) (I also think the timeline makes Reach work slightly less well in its own right).
...Are you one of those people who thinks that ODST's story isn't very good because "it doesn't matter"?
There are one or two spots with awkward direction, but the voice acting is pretty fantastic.
How were the characters in Reach "unconvincing"? They aren't complex, but the game's narrative uses them as simple archetypes, and it works fine. At any rate, they certainly sit comfortably with more expansive character exploration.
Actually, Halo 4's characters had a much harder time being "convincing" to me than Reach's. They're a long shot from "relatable."
You have folks like Captain Asshole acting like Captain Asshole before he has any reason to.
You've got the Didact making "epic" statements, except that lines like "where reason does not stop you perhaps force will at least delay you" don't make any sense coming from someone who never bothers to reason with you at all.
etc...
As far as Cortana and the Chief go: I thought their relationship was handled melodramatically and without much real progression. And I've had the opinion since 2004 that the romantic angle on their relationship was never really sold that well, so when Halo 4 decides that it's been set to 11? Yeah, no.
Are they more complex characters than how they're used in Bungie's games? Sure. Is that a good thing? Debatable. Does it ultimately work well? No.
As someone who hasn't payed much heed to the EU, I can't say I have much investment there.
I will acknowledge that I have a few qualms regarding how Reach couples to Halo 1.
I think some of its plot development steps on Halo 1's toes (i.e. Halsey's speech in her lab), and I think the decision to stretch the fall of Reach out to more than a couple of days takes away some of the punctuation off of Halo 1's origin story (for no apparent reason) (I also think the timeline makes Reach work slightly less well in its own right).
The primary thing that's ultimately impactful in the plot of the larger universe was shoved into the final two missions. The actual story was spread out just fine over the game as a whole.
...Are you one of those people who thinks that ODST's story isn't very good because "it doesn't matter"?
No. That is the setting for when you say "Xbox, record that" or when you double tap the nexus and hit X.
If you snap the DVR you can record up to 5 minutes or 15 minutes or something.
You can record the last 30 seconds of game play or you can record the next 5 minutes. Might be more than 5...
Steelyuhas
Member
Diablohead
Member
This is just a perm save problem right? or is there not even any kind of movie clip recent saving from campaign at all in the collection? (outside of game DVR recordings)
I'll be honest, outside of the novelty I never really saved any campaign footage back in the day, MP match saving is enough for me for now.
I'll be honest, outside of the novelty I never really saved any campaign footage back in the day, MP match saving is enough for me for now.
Multiplayer theatre saves work.
5 likely won't have as segmented and blurry backgrounded a campaign as 4, so theatre could make a comeback.
Orochinagis
Member
So let me get this, you cant custom your spartan in Halo3 (and Halo4) but predefined armor sets?
No worries.
Really? Carter sounds so monotonous throughout the whole Campaign. The general marine dialogue isn't that great, either. Noble 6 is no Master Chief, and Auntie Dot can't really be compared to Cortana. Jorge and Kat are good, but Emile was too much of an archetypal character for me to consider him to be of quality.
Because the archetypes of characters are not what made the trilogy's characters so good. When characters start becoming generic or stereotypically evil like Halo 3 then they lose the certain factor of subtlety that makes them so good. I'd liken the difference between Truth in Halo 2 and Halo 3 as one example. The Gravemind works too!
Del Rio is not an asshole for the sake of being an asshole, though. He's incompetent because he is overprotective of a ship that represented 50% of the UNSC's shipbuilding budget.
I don't think he was ever meant to be relatable. But his performance in the game was a lot more interesting than Carter or Colonel Holland.
On second thought that might be a reference to Silentium, actually. Let me look that up.
I'll agree with the notion that the romantic angle does not work well. But what you guys ultimately missed is the deliberate irony of their professional relationship.
Master Chief started the Halo trilogy as a dude who followed orders and kicked ass. Cortana, Keyes and even 343 GS had almost total control over his actions as they were the brains behind the brawn. 343 GS's manipulation almost caused him to wipe out life in the galaxy! This is also why the level 343GS was a bit intimidating; nobody is giving you orders. You are on your own.
Fast forward to Halo 4, and the roles have reversed. Now Master Chief is giving the orders, as seen in Halo 4 mission Composer where Cortana starts to become very unreliable, and the MC naturally takes the leadership role. Or when he tells Del Rio to get fucked. This progression was never directly stated in the game, but I am a strong believer of show rather than tell; and this was easily the best subtle aspect of role reversal and character development in Halo's story so far.
The next stage is total disillusionment from the UNSC, which is implied to occur in Halo 5.
The problem is that narrative structure is hugely important. I want to be entertained and interested in the game for its lore throughout the whole process. This is actually my biggest qualm with Halo 3; the vast majority of the lore was concentrated in the final 3 missions. The first 5 felt like Bungie saying sorry for not having enough Earth bound missions in Halo 2. And the fact that there were no Arbiter missions felt like a punch in the gut for people who liked Halo 2 (myself included). The Arbiter became a sideshow.
Getting back to my point, the first few missions in Halo 3 were actually really boring to me a soon as the gloss of a new game came off. Few things of importance happened, the environments weren't really interesting until Tsavo Highway, and even that mission felt uninspired in terms of its enemy encounters. Of course the game got much better after the Ark Twist, but when you look at the length of cutscenes in the game, you'll find that 70% is in the final 3-4 missions.
Now I'll come back to Reach. The game's first few missions definitely held my interest more so than Halo 3, but ultimately it felt like a mission pack until we got to the Package. Granted some of the missions were very good, I really liked Reach's AI and infantry encounters, for example. However, the story was never really there until the end.
Do you understand my perspective now?
ODST was a very different beast. If a discussion about it ever comes up I'll gather my thoughts on it. But no, I don't agree with the doesn't matter point. I do have some qualms about its ending, though.
NobleGundam
Banned
I think 343 just don't want to take the effort to "fix" the theater issue regarding H4 and/or CEA/H2A and knew they would rely on the xb1's record feature. Which it is really a big shame b'cuz as epic as this collection is we won't be able to truly experience everything via theater mode and this will most likely be trend in future halo games.
Well, I think it was well established in the EU. Meh. Again, I don't see the problem if you have read the EU.
The UNSC Infinity was drawn in by coordinates from the Installation 03 science team. This was in the game. And frankly if we are going to say "only go for the games" then we lose most of Halo's background story. Many of the EU elements were establishing aspects of the lore, similar to for the tFoR was an establishing story for CE. Sure, Halo 4 was too reliant on them, but what was left was still good quality in my opinion.
Again, this is because almost all of them had not read the books/
Out of the general fanbase? Probably, yes. Out of the fanbase that spends most of its time analyzing the lore? Definitely not. I've been on various lore orientated forums and Halo 4 is at least recognized as a much better attempt than Bungie's Halo: Reach. Most of us still hate Spartan Ops/Escalation though
I don't get what you're arguing? We're talking about games here, not books. Expecting people who play the games, to read all the books, novels, comics to understand the story is ridiculous.
I'm not going to go into Episode VII of Star Wars and be expected to read the thousands of books in the EU, watch all those shows. At the very least, I'm expected to have watched the first six star wars movies. And if they need to add expanded universe stuff, they can keep it self contained in the movie, just like it should have been in the game. I shouldn't have to read some Halo book to know who didact is, explain it in the game, otherwise you've failed your primary purpose of telling a story within the game.
As for Reach, don't look at it on the fact it doesn't follow the novelization. It's not Bungie's fault that Microsoft got money hungry after the success of CE and contracted out the story to make novels, and then expect Bungie to make a game nearly a decade after following it. This was Bungie's series, and they wanted to make the game and story their way.
At the very least, in Halo 4 they could have told the story of Didact, the Librarian and Requiem at the start, instead of that useless Halsey CGI about Chief being at his core broken which ultimately had nothing to do with the main story no?
Poker Face
Member
I think it's from when you snap the help app on the xbox one.
Five minutes, max. So like not even a single multiplayer match
I've also noticed that sometimes it won't record the full five minutes. Sometimes it'll be 3 minutes. Or 4 minutes. Even though you've been playing longer
Emperor Bohe
Member
(Predefined) armor sets for Halo 3 confirmed?
Fml
Poodlestrike
Banned
You can, but apparently only for multi.
VisceralBowl
Member
We cannot.
Nope. Only maps, screenshots, and game modes.
If you want to keep a film, you must record it with Game DVR.
Manual is here if you'd rather just copy and paste
https://dlassets-ssl.xboxlive.com/p...-4eb2-45ea-af0d-bd3f90529585/en-US/index.html
https://dlassets-ssl.xboxlive.com/p...-4eb2-45ea-af0d-bd3f90529585/en-US/index.html
It still captures the footage though, right? We just can't save it forever or share it as is?
I mean if we're able to still use the theatre mode after matches (AND campaign in H3) and use the DVR to essentially do what we were doing before then it isn't too bad, I guess. Quality aside
I mean if we're able to still use the theatre mode after matches (AND campaign in H3) and use the DVR to essentially do what we were doing before then it isn't too bad, I guess. Quality aside
VisceralBowl
Member
Yeah of course. It will temporarily save your gameplay so you can go back and rewatch/fly around in it.
Welfare
Member
We cannot.
Nope. Only maps, screenshots, and game modes.
If you want to keep a film, you must record it with Game DVR.
Fuck that noise. Unless MS update Game DVR to be 15-20 minutes, it is NOT amazing and is just, AHHHHHH!
Ooooh.
I guess we'll just have to stitch together 5 minute recordings if we play a particularly good game then :3
:lol
Cross quoting
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea aight,i'll wait and see.
Welfare
Member
Kill streaks to reward "skilled play" and bad ass tricks as in wall running, double jumps, and dropping Mantises on the ground. I can see it as if I'm playing it now.
/s
VisceralBowl
Member
Halofall. The epic crossover you've been waiting for. Spartan v Pilot. Mantis v Titan.
Coming exclusively to Xbox Two.
Captain Friendo
Neo Member
While I definitely agree a knowledge of the EU shouldn't be required to enjoy the campaigns, The fall of reach actually came out before halo CE.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Here's hoping they're for real.
Don't be hating on wall running and double jumps now.
Welfare
Member
Dude I fucking love Titanfall, and if BTB had wall running and double jumps, jeez fuck any Titanfall sequel.
If they were to only use the Xbox game clips, I would be extremely disappointed. 75% of my disappointment, Microsoft would be to blame. The game DVR, and how they present it, is utter shit on Xbox One.
Their are still games on Xbox One that auto record 30 second clips for you. I can't play an hour of Battlefield 4 without getting 5 clips uploaded into my account. This is a picture I took months ago, after a regular session of Peggle 2. It completely clutters up my Upload profile, and turns it into crap I, or no one else cares about.
However, a lot of games realized this idea was terrible, so they don't use them. Good. Now, an even bigger issue? You can't change the name of your clip, without taking five minutes to take it into "Upload Studio", rendering it, and uploading it back into your account. Their is literally no option to just change the name without having to completely save the file again. After a full year of the console being out. No one wants to go into someones profile, and just start clicking videos, with every name being "Halo: Master Cheif Co....". Anyone with an XBox One, go to your friends Upload account, and see 90% of all the clip names are the default video game title. And then you'll realize you didn't watch a single clip, because you don't want to waste your damn time clicking clips that you have no idea are about.
Next, we have the laggy, and just slow loading UI. You deal with having to load "OFFICIAL UPLOAD PRESENTS BATTLEFIELD TOP 1000" everytime you load the app up, and other crap you couldn't care less about. It usually takes 30 seconds or so to actually navigate to my clips, and have it fully loaded, or my friends from the time I click the open Upload. Totally Inconvenient to what we have in Halo today, where you can start clips up within seconds, viewing the entire match from any perspective you want. Not only that, but the games are just spread out by date. Their is no proper organization, and its just messy looking. I don't care about my friends "Legend of Korra" game clips. I just want to watch his Battlefield or Forza clips. Too bad I can't.
Finally, the "last" big issue, is whenever I'm in a party with friends, and my friend has a crazy moment, I have to wait around 30 minutes before I can actually watch the clip. It won't show they've uploaded anything new, unless they take the clip into Upload Studio, and render and upload everything out. Its just so mediocrely designed, and after a year, I expected everything to be fixed. but they haven't changed. A. Single. Thing.
Of course, as every knows, theater provides a completely different experience rather then just a recorded clip. You can see any perspective you want. You can watch how an enemy killed you, where their team went, how they pulled it off. You can get an overheard look, you can pause time, and everything else. HOWEVER, an advantage with the Xbox game DVR, is you can get your clip uploaded online, and share it with everyone on the internet. but once again, Microsoft failed at that aspect, and you need to use third party sites to actually get a specific URL to that certain video. Using Xbox.com, you only get a link to your entire Upload video list. You can't link people to a certain video.
Their are still games on Xbox One that auto record 30 second clips for you. I can't play an hour of Battlefield 4 without getting 5 clips uploaded into my account. This is a picture I took months ago, after a regular session of Peggle 2. It completely clutters up my Upload profile, and turns it into crap I, or no one else cares about.
However, a lot of games realized this idea was terrible, so they don't use them. Good. Now, an even bigger issue? You can't change the name of your clip, without taking five minutes to take it into "Upload Studio", rendering it, and uploading it back into your account. Their is literally no option to just change the name without having to completely save the file again. After a full year of the console being out. No one wants to go into someones profile, and just start clicking videos, with every name being "Halo: Master Cheif Co....". Anyone with an XBox One, go to your friends Upload account, and see 90% of all the clip names are the default video game title. And then you'll realize you didn't watch a single clip, because you don't want to waste your damn time clicking clips that you have no idea are about.
Next, we have the laggy, and just slow loading UI. You deal with having to load "OFFICIAL UPLOAD PRESENTS BATTLEFIELD TOP 1000" everytime you load the app up, and other crap you couldn't care less about. It usually takes 30 seconds or so to actually navigate to my clips, and have it fully loaded, or my friends from the time I click the open Upload. Totally Inconvenient to what we have in Halo today, where you can start clips up within seconds, viewing the entire match from any perspective you want. Not only that, but the games are just spread out by date. Their is no proper organization, and its just messy looking. I don't care about my friends "Legend of Korra" game clips. I just want to watch his Battlefield or Forza clips. Too bad I can't.
Finally, the "last" big issue, is whenever I'm in a party with friends, and my friend has a crazy moment, I have to wait around 30 minutes before I can actually watch the clip. It won't show they've uploaded anything new, unless they take the clip into Upload Studio, and render and upload everything out. Its just so mediocrely designed, and after a year, I expected everything to be fixed. but they haven't changed. A. Single. Thing.
Of course, as every knows, theater provides a completely different experience rather then just a recorded clip. You can see any perspective you want. You can watch how an enemy killed you, where their team went, how they pulled it off. You can get an overheard look, you can pause time, and everything else. HOWEVER, an advantage with the Xbox game DVR, is you can get your clip uploaded online, and share it with everyone on the internet. but once again, Microsoft failed at that aspect, and you need to use third party sites to actually get a specific URL to that certain video. Using Xbox.com, you only get a link to your entire Upload video list. You can't link people to a certain video.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
Madden does this for every touchdown.
That you score, the opponent scores, or the computer scores.
So a game where you win 27-20, a somewhat standard-ish score after an hour of playing, there will be five clips. Can't turn it off.
My replies in bold. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm attacking you.Well, I think it was well established in the EU. Meh. Again, I don't see the problem if you have read the EU.
But most people DON'T read the EU. The problem with Halo 4's story is that it is so established in the EU and not the game itself. That causes the story to become inaccessible to anyone who may have otherwise been interested. It didn't even do a good job establishing what had happened in the previous games. Any new player would have no idea who Chief or Cortana are, let alone what the hell is going on which is bad writing. You can't just say "Meh" about this as if it's no big deal. I read most of the EU and I still had trouble understanding what was going on.
The UNSC Infinity was drawn in by coordinates from the Installation 03 science team. This was in the game. And frankly if we are going to say "only go for the games" then we lose most of Halo's background story. Many of the EU elements were establishing aspects of the lore, similar to for the tFoR was an establishing story for CE. Sure, Halo 4 was too reliant on them, but what was left was still good quality in my opinion.
Halo Reach was a prequel that just shed some light on the events of Reach. It was a nice extra bit of story for Halo but it was by no means central to the main games plot if you wanted to understand what was happening. You just needed to know that's where a lot of shit got wrecked by Covenant and was Humanities last line of defense (which had mentioned through the main games). Halo 4 however had nothing explaining what the hell was going on within the story. As a story without the EU, it was not good.
The Didact didn't have any reason within the story to be doing what he was aside from just being a massive dick.
Del Rio talked to the hero who saved everyone from the flood and Covenant like an idiot.
Palmer came off as an arrogant bitch who did nothing to deserve respect.
NOBODY is shocked by Chief actually being alive and on a random Forerunner planet.
Almost the entire story is devoid of proper exposition. Yes the game needs to stand on its own. However you can still have the EU tie into the events of the game which great because it can enrich the story. It needs to be weaved into the narrative though.
Again, this is because almost all of them had not read the books/
They shouldn't have to read the books to understand what's going on.
The games should stand as a solid foundation for the EU to be built on. Not the other way around. This way the EU can still be in the games and make sense.
Out of the general fanbase? Probably, yes. Out of the fanbase that spends most of its time analyzing the lore? Definitely not. I've been on various lore orientated forums and Halo 4 is at least recognized as a much better attempt than Bungie's Halo: Reach. Most of us still hate Spartan Ops/Escalation though
I think that 343 are indeed taking the story into an interesting direction. As a matter a fact I really enjoyed some of Halo 4's story since I had an understanding of what was going on. The problem is though that the game's story by itself isn't very good. That's a major problem if 343 wants to enrich the games with the EU.
As always you fail to disappoint
I certainly hope not. They've been doing so well so far and getting rid of a massive legacy feature for a much more inferior record button will not only kill the machinima community for Halo but also screenshots. That's a large chunk of community content there. The whole point of theater was to be able to see how something happened from any angle (and I have no doubt it was also developed with machinima in mind as well) and watch it however you wanted. Seeing it from my own view isn't really going to tell me much of anything.
That's only because they kept the game to release with the launch of Xbox, I believe 2 weeks later. Halo had really left an impression on everyone who saw it in 2000 and was a killer app right away, they knew this which is why they commissioned novelizations soon after buying Bungie.
You're right though in that I forgot the book actually predated the actual release of the game. Even still, they're two vastly different things.